| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354630 is a reply to message #354570] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:15   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 10/16/2017 7:38 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >>> computers and software.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> >> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>> >
>>>> > Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> > vital kinds of software design.
>>>>
>>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>>
>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>>
>> Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
>> things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
>> big ugly arrows putting it all together.
>>
>> Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
>> that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
>> But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
>>
>
> Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
> scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
>
>
I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
bookmarks.
--
Pete
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354631 is a reply to message #354597] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:15 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-10-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2017-10-17, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> ...
>>> Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
>>> scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
>>
>> Who needs large envelopes? I get along just fine with a used #10.
>> If I need just a few notes, the back of the cash register receipts
>> that I stuff into my wallet will do. Like I said, I write small.
>
> I used to do that, and my mom still saves envelopes and other papers
> for that kind of reuse. But I noticed that I ended up with various
> papers lying around, with varying dimensions, some with important
> scribblings on, some not.
I keep stack of used xerox paper on my desk for working notes. When one
piece fills up just toss it. It's only occasionally that there is a note I
need to keep.
--
Pete
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354632 is a reply to message #354614] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:15 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-17, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 6:28:40 AM UTC-6, Whiskers wrote:
>>
>>> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
>>> blackboards in my old school.
>>
>> That must have been a _very_ old school. We had blackboards in school
>> when I was a schoolchild, but they were simply gypsum painted green or
>> some such thing; real slate blackboards were valuable antiques by
>> then.
>>
>> John Savard
>
> Not _very_ old; the building dated from about 1880. I think it's still
> there, converted to housing; I don't know what happened to the built-in
> slate blackboards (or the large-bore convection heating system and coal
> boiler, or the metal-working forge). I was there in the 1960s.
>
> We had small bits of slate in wooden frames when I first started school,
> to practice our letters on. Some of them could have been quite old,
> being portable they could be handed on easily. They break, but don't
> really wear out. Slate was a local product (supplanted now by plastics
> and by cheap inferior Chinese slate).
>
I recall some recent news where a school demolished a partition and
discovered a blackboard behind it - complete with stuff from (IIRC) the
1890s the teacher had written to celebrate Columbus day, a homework
assignment, and some student math work.
--
Pete
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354633 is a reply to message #354625] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:15 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>
> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing.
The dreaded "coders cramp."
--
Pete
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354635 is a reply to message #354625] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 17:18 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>
> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>
>
Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354636 is a reply to message #354596] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 17:51 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:28:38 +0100, Whiskers wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:55:29 +0000, Huge wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >>> computers and software.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
>>>> >> software,
>>>> >> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>> >
>>>> > Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> > vital kinds of software design.
>>>>
>>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>>
>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I
>>> think better standing up and walking up and down.
>>
>> Opposite for me. I used to use lareg sheets of fanfold paper, though.
>>
>> This avoids the problem one member of staff had. He had a *very* large
>> board in his office containing work in progress. He moved office at
>> short notice. They had to unscrew the board and move it.
>
> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
> blackboards in my old school.
It was a large slab of slate screwed to the wall.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354655 is a reply to message #354603] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 00:29 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 17 Oct 2017 14:07:11 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I had a blackboard. I hated whiteboards because one got an alcohol
> high without the taste of beer.
I knew a prof who liked chalkboards. He also wore black. He
usually had chalk dust on his clothes.
I prefer whiteboards, but I want all of it. At uni, I would
sometimes fill up about 16'X4' of whiteboard with math stuff. It
freaked people out -- "Is that homework?" -- but I did it to relax.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354656 is a reply to message #354655] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 03:10 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-18, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2017 14:07:11 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I had a blackboard. I hated whiteboards because one got an alcohol
>> high without the taste of beer.
>
> I knew a prof who liked chalkboards. He also wore black. He
> usually had chalk dust on his clothes.
>
> I prefer whiteboards, but I want all of it. At uni, I would
> sometimes fill up about 16'X4' of whiteboard with math stuff. It
> freaked people out -- "Is that homework?" -- but I did it to relax.
In junior high I had a math teacher who showed me how to calculate
square roots using a process similar to long division. I filled a
whiteboard in a spare room with a calculation of the square root of
10 to at least a dozen decimal places.
Well, if you're going to be a nerd, you might as well play it up...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354657 is a reply to message #354636] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 05:21 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-17, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 13:28:38 +0100, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:55:29 +0000, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> > On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >>>> computers and software.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
>>>> >>> software,
>>>> >>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> >> vital kinds of software design.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>>> > a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>>>
>>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I
>>>> think better standing up and walking up and down.
>>>
>>> Opposite for me. I used to use lareg sheets of fanfold paper, though.
>>>
>>> This avoids the problem one member of staff had. He had a *very* large
>>> board in his office containing work in progress. He moved office at
>>> short notice. They had to unscrew the board and move it.
>>
>> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
>> blackboards in my old school.
>
> It was a large slab of slate screwed to the wall.
>
There is a place in north Wales, either on or close to the
London-Holyhead road, where they sell things made from real slate,
like what we used in school years ago. Tourist trap, but good for
nostalgia. There was a trend recently for slate to be made from
ground waste bits, which were composited.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354667 is a reply to message #354655] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:06 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2017 14:07:11 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> I had a blackboard. I hated whiteboards because one got an alcohol
>> high without the taste of beer.
>
> I knew a prof who liked chalkboards. He also wore black. He
> usually had chalk dust on his clothes.
>
> I prefer whiteboards, but I want all of it. At uni, I would
> sometimes fill up about 16'X4' of whiteboard with math stuff. It
> freaked people out -- "Is that homework?" -- but I did it to relax.
Yea, I understand the need for math fixes. :-) I would take a
math book with me on our vacation cruises and do all the problems in
the book while sitting on deck. It was really nice to look out at
the ocean while thinking about the problem. There were a lot of
males who asked what I was doing. When I answered I got "that look"
which made me feel like I'd just grown two Martian heads.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354669 is a reply to message #354635] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:06 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>
>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>
>>
>
> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>
The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer
mechanical pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to
take the T to Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils
at the Coop. And then the pencils nor erasers were available
any more.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354670 is a reply to message #354630] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:06 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass wrote:
> Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> On 10/16/2017 7:38 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >>>> computers and software.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
software,
>>>> >>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> >> vital kinds of software design.
>>>> >
>>>> > Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>>> > a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>>>
>>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>>>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>>>
>>> Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
>>> things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
>>> big ugly arrows putting it all together.
>>>
>>> Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
>>> that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
>>> But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
>>>
>>
>> Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
>> scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
>>
>>
>
> I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
> bookmarks.
We (TOPS-10 monitor development) used them to mark the listings for edits.
If an edit was to be done, card was on the right side of the listing; when
the Tape Prep gal did the edit, she would put the card on the left hand
side of the page. A new listing with the edits would be made and put
on top of the "old" listing in the binder. For large listings such
as COMMON.MAC or COMDEV.MAC, the old listing would be put in the blue
binder. The latest listings were in black binders and the old listings
were in the blue binders sorted by descending edit date.
JMF's and TW's style was to write debugging notes on a card. When they
were done with the morning's debugging on stand alone machines, the
cards in their shirt pockets would be carried back to their offices
and they would work on the items on their lists.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354671 is a reply to message #354637] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:06 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Quadibloc wrote:
> And although the look-and-feel lawsuits only started later, the PIP
> command in CP/M was a smoking gun for DEC; look at the OS/8 manual.
That IP hadn't been copyrighted so the lawyers figured that any court
would consider the IP to be in the public domain.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354672 is a reply to message #354628] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:06 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:03:11 -0500, Charles Richmond wrote:
>>
>> On 10/16/2017 4:32 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 22:21:05 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>> I would assume that if a product does not exist you of course design it
>>> on something else. Like they could had probably created QDOS (86-DOS,
>>> what later became MS-DOS) on a CP/M based computer. ;-)
>>>
>>> Well according to <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS> Tim Paterson of
>>> Seattle Computer Products did use a CP/M-80 manual as reference. But
>>> hardware was their own product, a 8086 computer kit.
>>>
>>
>> Seattle Computer Products had a source license for CP/M. It has been
>> alleged that Tim Patterson ran the 8080 CP/M code through and
>> automatic code conversion to produce the skeleton of QDOS... and then
>> cleaned it up by hand.
>
> Then parts of CP/M's code base was embedded in MS-DOS? If they could had
> proved it back in the 80s I wonder if Digital Research could had get some
> "royalties" from Microsoft.
>
> Although MS might have rewritten things heavily. Like what was already
> mentioned that COMMAND.COM is way different from PIP.
MS seemed to just rename the program name; their EDLIN was really
DEC's LINED.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354673 is a reply to message #354669] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:11 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>>
>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>
>
> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer
> mechanical pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to
> take the T to Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils
> at the Coop. And then the pencils nor erasers were available
> any more.
Burroughs provided us with Pentel P205's, and supplied leads
and erasers. I still have, and use, mine. (And, they're still
available new). For the price, you can't find a better
mechanical pencil.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354674 is a reply to message #354669] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:32 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:06:40 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>>
>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>
>>
> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer mechanical
> pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to take the T to
> Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils at the Coop. And
> then the pencils nor erasers were available any more.
This is the pencil I use now.
https://goo.gl/QP14yq
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354675 is a reply to message #354673] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 10:33 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 14:11:47 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>> Charles Richmond wrote:
>>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> > Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those
>>>> > pencils?
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also,
>>>> other pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the
>>>> paper.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>>
>>>
>> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer mechanical
>> pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to take the T to
>> Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils at the Coop. And
>> then the pencils nor erasers were available any more.
>
> Burroughs provided us with Pentel P205's, and supplied leads and
> erasers. I still have, and use, mine. (And, they're still available
> new). For the price, you can't find a better mechanical pencil.
As noted elsewhere, I use this:
https://goo.gl/QP14yq
And the matching ballpoint
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354681 is a reply to message #354656] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 11:05 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/18/2017 2:10 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-10-18, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> On 17 Oct 2017 14:07:11 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I had a blackboard. I hated whiteboards because one got an alcohol
>>> high without the taste of beer.
>>
>> I knew a prof who liked chalkboards. He also wore black. He
>> usually had chalk dust on his clothes.
>>
>> I prefer whiteboards, but I want all of it. At uni, I would
>> sometimes fill up about 16'X4' of whiteboard with math stuff. It
>> freaked people out -- "Is that homework?" -- but I did it to relax.
>
> In junior high I had a math teacher who showed me how to calculate
> square roots using a process similar to long division. I filled a
> whiteboard in a spare room with a calculation of the square root of
> 10 to at least a dozen decimal places.
>
> Well, if you're going to be a nerd, you might as well play it up...
>
At the following URL there are methods for calculating square roots and
cube roots with pencil and paper as Charlie mentioned:
http://www.aquaporin4.com/findroot/
the cube root method is impractical because many of the intermediate
results require significant calculation themselves. You could use a
calculator to get those intermediate results... but if you are using a
calculator, you can get the cube root by pressing a button!
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354682 is a reply to message #354669] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 11:15 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/18/2017 9:06 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>>
>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>
>
> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer
> mechanical pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to
> take the T to Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils
> at the Coop. And then the pencils nor erasers were available
> any more.
>
Didn't JMF like those fine polymer lead pencils that were popular with
engineering students back in the 1970's??? At that time the lead was
either 0.7 mm or 0.5 mm. Today you can buy "throw away" mechanical
pencils (BIC or Paper*Mate) with the 0.7 mm lead.
There is even a fancy pencil (about $3 US) that uses the 0.7 mm lead and
has a one-inch retractable eraser that can easily be replaced. When you
buy the pencil, it comes with extra lead and two or three extra erasers
to replace the eraser that is used up.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354696 is a reply to message #354682] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 13:39 |
Andy Leighton
Messages: 203
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 10:15:41 -0500, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 10/18/2017 9:06 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Charles Richmond wrote:
>>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> > Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>>>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>>
>>
>> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer
>> mechanical pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to
>> take the T to Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils
>> at the Coop. And then the pencils nor erasers were available
>> any more.
>>
>
> Didn't JMF like those fine polymer lead pencils that were popular with
> engineering students back in the 1970's??? At that time the lead was
> either 0.7 mm or 0.5 mm. Today you can buy "throw away" mechanical
> pencils (BIC or Paper*Mate) with the 0.7 mm lead.
Most mechanical pencils can be refilled. For example a Zebra Z-Grip
Pencil 0.5mm is 38 pence (about 40 cents), a pack of 12 leads can be
had for as little as 1 pound.
My latest pencil is a Pentel Orenz 0.3mm - you can even get a 0.2mm
version which writes fine. Although I also like the Uni Kuru Toga and
Ohto ProMecha pencils.
--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354697 is a reply to message #354682] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 14:27 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 10:15:41 -0500, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 10/18/2017 9:06 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Charles Richmond wrote:
>>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> > Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those
>>>> > pencils?
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also,
>>>> other pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the
>>>> paper.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>>
>>>
>> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer mechanical
>> pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to take the T to
>> Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils at the Coop. And
>> then the pencils nor erasers were available any more.
>>
>>
> Didn't JMF like those fine polymer lead pencils that were popular with
> engineering students back in the 1970's??? At that time the lead was
> either 0.7 mm or 0.5 mm. Today you can buy "throw away" mechanical
> pencils (BIC or Paper*Mate) with the 0.7 mm lead.
>
> There is even a fancy pencil (about $3 US) that uses the 0.7 mm lead and
> has a one-inch retractable eraser that can easily be replaced. When you
> buy the pencil, it comes with extra lead and two or three extra erasers
> to replace the eraser that is used up.
The one I mentioned earlier has a 0.7mm lead, and I have boxes of spares
that I happened to buy for something else years ago.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354704 is a reply to message #354630] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 16:55 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 4:15:21 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
> bookmarks.
Lots of people did that when punched cards were used.
I know a fellow who took home a few boxes of blank cards from his
employer upon his retirement. To this day he uses them for note
cards. Fits in a shirt pocket.
(While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354705 is a reply to message #354633] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 16:57 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 4:15:23 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing.
>
> The dreaded "coders cramp."
Or when you walk out of taking the SAT's.
I never knew how kids could take an SAT in the morning and then
an achievement test in the afternoon. Too much intensity packed
into one day.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354706 is a reply to message #354635] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 17:07 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 5:18:03 PM UTC-4, Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>
>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>
>>
>
> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
They used to be made in Jersey City.
see (upper right of page 108)
https://books.google.com/books?id=g04EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA108 &dq=life%20ticonderoga&pg=PA108#v=onepage&q& f=false
P.S. The last page of the above issue has an ad by Camel touting
"28% less nicotine", and that was in 1941.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354707 is a reply to message #354656] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 17:11 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 3:11:25 AM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> In junior high I had a math teacher who showed me how to calculate
> square roots using a process similar to long division. I filled a
> whiteboard in a spare room with a calculation of the square root of
> 10 to at least a dozen decimal places.
> Well, if you're going to be a nerd, you might as well play it up...
We learned that, and it was on the test. IIRC, it was a PITA.
However, once we learned it, I don't think we ever used it the hand
method again. We either used our slide rule or a table in a book.
(Our math and science textbooks had various function tables in
the back. The teachers had collections of books just filled with
various function tables. We also learned "interpolation" and did
use that frequently for table lookups.)
I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354708 is a reply to message #354657] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 17:12 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 5:21:56 AM UTC-4, ma...@mail.com wrote:
> There is a place in north Wales, either on or close to the
> London-Holyhead road, where they sell things made from real slate,
> like what we used in school years ago. Tourist trap, but good for
> nostalgia. There was a trend recently for slate to be made from
> ground waste bits, which were composited.
On the Flintstones, I believe Mr. Slate was Fred's boss. Everyone
had a stone-related name. On the Jetson's, everyone had a space-age
related name.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354709 is a reply to message #354704] |
Wed, 18 October 2017 17:14 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 4:55:56 PM UTC-4, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> (While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
> I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
> or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
> in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
CORRECTION: That should read:
(While, IMHO, we *should* still use punched cards for all data processing,
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354740 is a reply to message #354475] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 08:53 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2017 14:06:44 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>
>>> Although MS might have rewritten things heavily. Like what was already
>>> mentioned that COMMAND.COM is way different from PIP.
>>
>> MS seemed to just rename the program name; their EDLIN was really
>> DEC's LINED.
>
> Isn't this editor not just called "ed" in CP/M?
I don't know. I've never used CP/M.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354741 is a reply to message #354704] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 08:53 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 4:15:21 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
>> bookmarks.
>
> Lots of people did that when punched cards were used.
>
> I know a fellow who took home a few boxes of blank cards from his
> employer upon his retirement. To this day he uses them for note
> cards. Fits in a shirt pocket.
>
> (While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
> I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
> or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
> in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
>
>
In 1970 or 1969 paper prices went up a lot. The computer center at
my university was severely troubled by that.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354742 is a reply to message #354682] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 08:53 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 10/18/2017 9:06 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Charles Richmond wrote:
>>> On 10/17/2017 1:01 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> > Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>>>
>>>> IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
>>>> required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
>>>> resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
>>>> pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now the Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2 pencils are all Made in China!!! :-(
>>>
>>
>> The only pencils JMF used was a particular kind of Schaeffer
>> mechanical pencil. They became scarce and I remember having to
>> take the T to Harvard Square to find erasers, lead and new pencils
>> at the Coop. And then the pencils nor erasers were available
>> any more.
>>
>
> Didn't JMF like those fine polymer lead pencils that were popular with
> engineering students back in the 1970's??? At that time the lead was
> either 0.7 mm or 0.5 mm. Today you can buy "throw away" mechanical
> pencils (BIC or Paper*Mate) with the 0.7 mm lead.
He was very particular about his pencil. The lead in those other pencils
weren't thick enough. I didn't care for them either whenever I played
as a data enterer operator because the printing wasn't dark enough to
see easily.
>
> There is even a fancy pencil (about $3 US) that uses the 0.7 mm lead and
> has a one-inch retractable eraser that can easily be replaced. When you
> buy the pencil, it comes with extra lead and two or three extra erasers
> to replace the eraser that is used up.
I use the BICs. The only annoying thing about them is the clip which
hurts my fingers if I'm not holding the pencil just right.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354749 is a reply to message #354724] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 10:18 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/18/2017 9:12 PM, Joe Makowiec wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>
>> books just filled with various function tables.
>
> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
> among others. I went to college with a copy. I see that math tables are
> now in Appendix A instead of Section 1.
>
ISTM that the physics and chemistry handbook had a rather large table of
integrals. Chemical Rubber Company also publishes a Mathematics
Handbook with lots of formulas and tables.
ttp://tinyurl.com/y9uampwf
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354750 is a reply to message #354532] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 11:26 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 2017-10-16, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:54:49 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
....
>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>> computers and software.
>>
>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>
> I used to use 2B pencils, and I had a pencil sharpener with replaceable
> blades. In fact, I still have them...right here.
In recent years, I've discovered that sharpening with a knife is much
more pleasant [than with the cheap sharpeners I always used]. The
pencil lasts longer and is somehow more pleasant to use. You need a
good knife, though.
And mostly I use a GraphGear mechanical pencil, 0.5 mm.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354757 is a reply to message #354475] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 13:28 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-19, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-10-19, Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Oct 2017 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:
>>
>>> books just filled with various function tables.
>>
>> Chemical Rubber Company (CRC)'s "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics",
>
> Which we always called "the rubber handbook".
Our first-year physics prof arranged a group purchase
for those who were interested. I still have mine.
Between that and the Merck Index, what more could you want?
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354758 is a reply to message #354704] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 13:28 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 4:15:21 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> I used to carry a few used IBM cards around to take notes on, or use as
>> bookmarks.
>
> Lots of people did that when punched cards were used.
>
> I know a fellow who took home a few boxes of blank cards from his
> employer upon his retirement. To this day he uses them for note
> cards. Fits in a shirt pocket.
>
> (While, IMHO, we still use punched cards for all data processing,
> I must admit I don't regret losing all those trees to become cards
> or green bar paper. Tab machines and computers ate a lot of paper
> in the old days. I don't think anyone was every troubled by that.)
Nowadays it's cheap laser and inkjet printers that eat a lot of paper.
People still aren't troubled by this.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354759 is a reply to message #354475] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 13:28 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-18, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 18 Oct 2017 14:06:44 GMT, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>>> Although MS might have rewritten things heavily. Like what was already
>>> mentioned that COMMAND.COM is way different from PIP.
>>
>> MS seemed to just rename the program name; their EDLIN was really
>> DEC's LINED.
>
> Isn't this editor not just called "ed" in CP/M?
Almost but not quite. I quickly discovered that edlin was just
enough like CP/M's ed to make you feel at home, and just different
enough to bite you.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354760 is a reply to message #354707] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 13:28 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
It's easy to forget just how expensive hardware was back in those days.
The extra circuitry needed to implement a square root instruction would
have been so expensive (not to mention bulky) that it wasn't even
considered. Heck, if you were feeling cheap you could buy a Univac
9300 without the multiply, divide, and edit instructions (MP, DP,
and ED, EDMK wasn't supported at all), and link subroutines to your
program that did the work in software. Mind you, if you were that
cheap you might only have 8K of memory and not have room for the
subroutines...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354761 is a reply to message #354760] |
Thu, 19 October 2017 13:58 |
osmium
Messages: 749
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/19/2017 12:28 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-10-18, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe it was relatively recently (last 15 years or so?) that
>> IBM added square root as a hardware function to the S/360 series.
>> Seems like something that should've been included at the onset.
> It's easy to forget just how expensive hardware was back in those days.
> The extra circuitry needed to implement a square root instruction would
> have been so expensive (not to mention bulky) that it wasn't even
> considered. Heck, if you were feeling cheap you could buy a Univac
> 9300 without the multiply, divide, and edit instructions (MP, DP,
> and ED, EDMK wasn't supported at all), and link subroutines to your
> program that did the work in software. Mind you, if you were that
> cheap you might only have 8K of memory and not have room for the
> subroutines...
>
I didn't realize that anyone sold, in that era, anything with that
little memory. Is this the record for for small memory? Say after the
initial "invention" period, 1958 or beyond.
Univac made a 422 training computer with 512 15-bit words, but it was
not intended to actually *be* a computer, rather to illustrate the
principles. IIRC, the purchase price was around $44,000. It included a
typewriter and paper tape for I/O, it sat on a (user supplied) table.
This was about 1965.
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