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Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354330] Fri, 13 October 2017 08:53 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

So it turns out the mystery card in my 'new' II+ is a clone of the Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) card. This is an 8 bit DAC customarily placed in slot 5. While the original SAM has a speaker, mine has a 3.5mm jack audio output.

I downloaded the S.A.M. software from Asimov and it works quite nicely. It is a pretty decent speech synth when you consider it is 100% software, with only a 1MHz 6502 to push it along.

My question is - is there any other software for this card? An 8 bit DAC is also pretty handy for playing music and other effects, but I don't know if anyone used it that way back in the day.
Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354337 is a reply to message #354330] Fri, 13 October 2017 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Vignau is currently offline  Antoine Vignau
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Registered: October 2012
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Other SAM info at http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Speech/Don%27t%20Ask%20Software%20Au tomated%20Mouth/

av
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354339 is a reply to message #354337] Fri, 13 October 2017 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

Awesome - thanks Antoine!
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354371 is a reply to message #354330] Fri, 13 October 2017 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
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Bobbi <bobbi.manners@gmail.com> wrote:
> So it turns out the mystery card in my 'new' II+ is a clone of the
> Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) card. This is an 8 bit DAC customarily
> placed in slot 5. While the original SAM has a speaker, mine has a 3.5mm
> jack audio output.
>
> I downloaded the S.A.M. software from Asimov and it works quite nicely.
> It is a pretty decent speech synth when you consider it is 100% software,
> with only a 1MHz 6502 to push it along.
>
> My question is - is there any other software for this card? An 8 bit DAC
> is also pretty handy for playing music and other effects, but I don't
> know if anyone used it that way back in the day.
>

A hardware DAC makes a lot of experiments possible, such as generating
waveforms or sounds (if played through headphones or an amplifier).

There are *lots* of 8-bit sampled sounds available, usually at 11kHz or
22kHz, and if you load the DAC with consecutive samples at the correct rate
the sound will be played.

Of course, you can generate waveforms in BASIC to be "played" through the
DAC.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354374 is a reply to message #354371] Fri, 13 October 2017 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

I am planning on playing with it using Merlin-8 at some point this weekend. See how it sounds playing sampled audio.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354541 is a reply to message #354374] Mon, 16 October 2017 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zellyn is currently offline  zellyn
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Registered: April 2013
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On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 7:24:25 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> I am planning on playing with it using Merlin-8 at some point this weekend. See how it sounds playing sampled audio.

FYI if you want to play around with it in an Emulator, and are on a Mac, I added SAM hardware support to OpenEmulator a while back. a2's OpenEmulator build should include it.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354542 is a reply to message #354541] Mon, 16 October 2017 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

I use MAME on Linux usually.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354545 is a reply to message #354542] Mon, 16 October 2017 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

I have been playing around writing a sound generator using the S.A.M. board.. My first thought was to play sampled audio, but memory is a bit tight for more than a couple of seconds, so I decided to do a type of 'wavetable synth' instead.

There are two parts.
1) An Applesoft program that creates the note waveforms and stores them in memory.
2) An assembly language (MERLIN-8) routine to play notes using the note waveforms.

Right now I am just creating sinusoidal waveforms and I am able to play notes using a 20kHz sample rate. I only have one octave at the moment and there are some other issues I would like to work out, but I think it has potential. Sounds better than the one bit DAC of the build-in speaker anyhow :)
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354557 is a reply to message #354545] Mon, 16 October 2017 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: joltenjoe

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 3:19:45 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> I have been playing around writing a sound generator using the S.A.M. board. My first thought was to play sampled audio, but memory is a bit tight for more than a couple of seconds, so I decided to do a type of 'wavetable synth' instead.
>
> There are two parts.
> 1) An Applesoft program that creates the note waveforms and stores them in memory.
> 2) An assembly language (MERLIN-8) routine to play notes using the note waveforms.
>
> Right now I am just creating sinusoidal waveforms and I am able to play notes using a 20kHz sample rate. I only have one octave at the moment and there are some other issues I would like to work out, but I think it has potential. Sounds better than the one bit DAC of the build-in speaker anyhow :)

I have a SAM board someplace that I dearly loved back in middle 80's. Mine did not have a speaker. I recall hooking it up to external speakers or a sound system (using the Apple II+ speaker was not optimal) including the microphone side of the old Bell Telephone handsets but nobody was fooled by the speech when I called but it was fun.

I then moved onto the MockingBoard from Sweet Micro which might be more of what you are seeking. The software for that contained all sorts of sound control and may also give you some ideas. I used to play with tweaking wave forms and frequencies until the dogs next-door howled at me or was that my family yelling to stop?

you can check out a SAM simulator I saw online that came from a Commodore 64 derivative of the SAM software only variety.

http://simulationcorner.net/index.php?page=sam
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354562 is a reply to message #354557] Mon, 16 October 2017 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

My S.A.M. clone does not have a speaker either, just a 3.5mm jack.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354617 is a reply to message #354562] Tue, 17 October 2017 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Hall [VE3MYZ] FN25dj. 73

On Monday, 16 October 2017 19:16:14 UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> My S.A.M. clone does not have a speaker either, just a 3.5mm jack.

I used my SAM that did have a speaker built-in with any of the software that needed output to a 8-bit DAC.

Off the top of my head maybe the mountain music system.
I do still have all that stuff stored away.

There was/is a book called "Musical Applications of the Microprocessor ?"
Written by Hal Chamberlan ? that I remember using alot.

I also have a ADC <--> DAC board i built from a kit i ordered out of Toronto, Canada that came with Software to create / sample and then playback with the same 8-bit DAC.

I just changed the output address in the BIN code to point to the SAM/DAC.

When I remember what the software was I will post the info.

Unfortunatly I don't think I can get to look at the software until, I make room for the garage of Apple ][ Gear. It's all in there way at the back.

I remember using a couple of packages that i just changed the "STA $C0xx" to the slot I had the ADC/DAC or SAM card in.


James

73
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354619 is a reply to message #354562] Tue, 17 October 2017 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: joltenjoe

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 7:16:14 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> My S.A.M. clone does not have a speaker either, just a 3.5mm jack.

I looked thru the SAM manual Antoine linked to and it shows that the a "non-clone" versions also had no speaker. The 2 without a speaker photos look like mine. Oddly no silk screening on the PCB.

Check out page 17 of the manual. it describes how they approached the sound and specifically discuss tables and compression.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354623 is a reply to message #354619] Tue, 17 October 2017 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Hall [VE3MYZ] FN25dj. 73

After a quick look online.

The Decillionix DX-1 was what the kit was a clone of.

and then i came across this link that just may help.


regards

James
73

http://eightbitsoundandfury.ld8.org/hardware.html

just check the code for $C0xx's and replace with the slot of S.A.M
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354646 is a reply to message #354541] Tue, 17 October 2017 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TomCh is currently offline  TomCh
Messages: 242
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-7, Zellyn wrote:
> On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 7:24:25 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
>> I am planning on playing with it using Merlin-8 at some point this weekend. See how it sounds playing sampled audio.
>
> FYI if you want to play around with it in an Emulator, and are on a Mac, I added SAM hardware support to OpenEmulator a while back. a2's OpenEmulator build should include it.

....and FYI, supported in AppleWin from 1.26.1.1 (last year).

The pull-request (from Riccardo) came with this disk too:
https://github.com/AppleWin/AppleWin/blob/master/Disks/SAM%2 0Slot%205.dsk

Tom
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354698 is a reply to message #354330] Wed, 18 October 2017 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 8:53:05 AM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> So it turns out the mystery card in my 'new' II+ is a clone of the Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) card. This is an 8 bit DAC customarily placed in slot 5. While the original SAM has a speaker, mine has a 3.5mm jack audio output.


I can't view that site at the moment. But, is there a schematic for the card somewhere? A simple DAC could be made with nothing but resistors. I'm really curious on how that was built.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354700 is a reply to message #354698] Wed, 18 October 2017 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

It has three ICs on board - an eight bit buffer for the data lines of the bus, an audio power op-amp and what is evidently a DAC (but it has no markings at all on the chip.) The rest of the board is passive components - probably analog audio low-pass filter.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354701 is a reply to message #354700] Wed, 18 October 2017 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:42:16 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> It has three ICs on board - an eight bit buffer for the data lines of the bus, an audio power op-amp and what is evidently a DAC (but it has no markings at all on the chip.) The rest of the board is passive components - probably analog audio low-pass filter.

Are there lots of resistors? Like 16 or more?
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354702 is a reply to message #354701] Wed, 18 October 2017 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

Seven or eight devices that look like resistors. I don't think it uses a resistor latter as a DAC if that is what you are thinking. I can email you a picture of the board if you like.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354703 is a reply to message #354702] Wed, 18 October 2017 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:58:48 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> Seven or eight devices that look like resistors. I don't think it uses a resistor latter as a DAC if that is what you are thinking. I can email you a picture of the board if you like.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. I was wondering if it used a resistor ladder.

And yes! I would love to see some pics of it.

cbmeeks {at} gmail {dot} com

Thanks!
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354739 is a reply to message #354703] Thu, 19 October 2017 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Hall [VE3MYZ] FN25dj. 73

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:14:19 UTC-4, cb meeks wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:58:48 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
>> Seven or eight devices that look like resistors. I don't think it uses a resistor latter as a DAC if that is what you are thinking. I can email you a picture of the board if you like.
>
> Yes, that's what I was getting at. I was wondering if it used a resistor ladder.
>
> And yes! I would love to see some pics of it.
>
> cbmeeks {at} gmail {dot} com
>
> Thanks!

How about placing it on a scanner and scanning both sides.

that's how I do it.

73
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354746 is a reply to message #354739] Thu, 19 October 2017 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

Scanning a board is not a bad idea :)
I snapped some okay pics on my cellphone (see upthread.)
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354747 is a reply to message #354330] Thu, 19 October 2017 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 8:53:05 AM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
> So it turns out the mystery card in my 'new' II+ is a clone of the Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) card. This is an 8 bit DAC customarily placed in slot 5. While the original SAM has a speaker, mine has a 3.5mm jack audio output.
>
> I downloaded the S.A.M. software from Asimov and it works quite nicely. It is a pretty decent speech synth when you consider it is 100% software, with only a 1MHz 6502 to push it along.
>
> My question is - is there any other software for this card? An 8 bit DAC is also pretty handy for playing music and other effects, but I don't know if anyone used it that way back in the day.


A 6522, simple DAC (like DAC0808) and an op-amp would be a lot of fun to play with. I wonder if such a card exists for the Apple II?
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354748 is a reply to message #354747] Thu, 19 October 2017 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

This thing is pretty close, except is has an octal latch instead of the more flexible 6522.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354765 is a reply to message #354748] Thu, 19 October 2017 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: joltenjoe

https://blog.juicylizard.com/?p=258

Here is a home brew DAC after his SAM died.
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354766 is a reply to message #354703] Thu, 19 October 2017 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zellyn is currently offline  zellyn
Messages: 173
Registered: April 2013
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Senior Member
On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 3:14:19 PM UTC-4, cb meeks wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:58:48 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
>> Seven or eight devices that look like resistors. I don't think it uses a resistor latter as a DAC if that is what you are thinking. I can email you a picture of the board if you like.
>
> Yes, that's what I was getting at. I was wondering if it used a resistor ladder.
>
> And yes! I would love to see some pics of it.
>
> cbmeeks {at} gmail {dot} com
>
> Thanks!

As usual, the Apple II Documentation Project delivers the goods: http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Pr oject/Interface%20Cards/Speech/Don%27t%20Ask%20Software%20Au tomated%20Mouth/Photos/
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354788 is a reply to message #354703] Fri, 20 October 2017 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
cb meeks <cbmeeks@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:58:48 PM UTC-4, Bobbi wrote:
>> Seven or eight devices that look like resistors. I don't think it uses
>> a resistor latter as a DAC if that is what you are thinking. I can
>> email you a picture of the board if you like.
>
> Yes, that's what I was getting at. I was wondering if it used a resistor ladder.
>
> And yes! I would love to see some pics of it.
>
> cbmeeks {at} gmail {dot} com
>
> Thanks!
>

It's not a resistor ladder. It's a real DAC.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354798 is a reply to message #354330] Fri, 20 October 2017 04:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

I downloaded the S.A.M. software for Windows, but it sounds too much like Steven Hawking!
Re: Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.) [message #354998 is a reply to message #354788] Fri, 20 October 2017 09:16 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: cb meeks

>
> It's not a resistor ladder. It's a real DAC.
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com


Yep. That's what Bobbi said earlier which I confirmed myself after I saw the pic.
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