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Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353045] Thu, 21 September 2017 10:52 Go to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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This would require a bit of relocation and reworking of the code, so it's
not really something I feel I could entirely do on my own, but here's the
idea.

1. I'd use a version of the existing SOS loader to get the initial program
into memory.

2. I'd initialize "satan mode", then load the modified ROM code I use for
Star Emulator into place. (This also would entail setting up the font,
something I don't know how to do.)

3. I'd put code in bank 1 that is the guts of ProDOS-8 reworked to support
the hardware of the ///.

This would allow me to create a disk that boots on the ][ or the ///,
provided there's at least 64K on the ][ and 128K on the ///; would allow
the use of BASIC.SYSTEM and such; probably could run almost any
64K-compatible ProDOS stuff on a ///.

-uso.
Re: Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353054 is a reply to message #353045] Thu, 21 September 2017 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
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On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-4, Steve Nickolas wrote:
> [...]
>
> 2. I'd initialize "satan mode", then load the modified ROM code I use for
> Star Emulator into place. (This also would entail setting up the font,
> something I don't know how to do.)

The CONSOLE driver has a routine, LOADSET, that loads up a font. it does some chicanery to do the downloading on a VBL interrupt so (I guess) fonts don't change in the middle of the character cell.

> [...]
> This would allow me to create a disk that boots on the ][ or the ///,
> provided there's at least 64K on the ][ and 128K on the ///; would allow
> the use of BASIC.SYSTEM and such; probably could run almost any
> 64K-compatible ProDOS stuff on a ///.

I guess both could boot because the /// will slurp up sector 1 instead of 0; the normal dual-boot scenario. But is there anything in BASIC.SYSTEM that takes the language card bank switch interface into account? or in any other ProDOS programs that rely on that hardware mechanism that would be missing in the ///? That's the thing that I figured would have hindered this from having been done long ago.
Re: Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353075 is a reply to message #353054] Thu, 21 September 2017 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
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Registered: October 2012
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On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, David Schmidt wrote:

> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-4, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2. I'd initialize "satan mode", then load the modified ROM code I use for
>> Star Emulator into place. (This also would entail setting up the font,
>> something I don't know how to do.)
>
> The CONSOLE driver has a routine, LOADSET, that loads up a font. it
> does some chicanery to do the downloading on a VBL interrupt so (I
> guess) fonts don't change in the middle of the character cell.

With the screen cleared as I would, I don't think it would matter.

>>
>> This would allow me to create a disk that boots on the ][ or the ///,
>> provided there's at least 64K on the ][ and 128K on the ///; would allow
>> the use of BASIC.SYSTEM and such; probably could run almost any
>> 64K-compatible ProDOS stuff on a ///.
>
> I guess both could boot because the /// will slurp up sector 1 instead
> of 0; the normal dual-boot scenario. But is there anything in
> BASIC.SYSTEM that takes the language card bank switch interface into
> account? or in any other ProDOS programs that rely on that hardware
> mechanism that would be missing in the ///? That's the thing that I
> figured would have hindered this from having been done long ago.
>

I think only ProDOS itself, as far as "well behaved" software. Some
software uses the 3.25K above the Selector, but iirc, the entire language
card area is "reserved". My idea would just move that code (which would
be loaded through the normal SOS IPL, as ProDOS-8 and GS/OS are loaded
through the ProDOS IPL) onto the extra memory of the ///, and the modified
Apple ][+ ROM into the $D000-FFFF area. For a program that is well
behaved, and doesn't abuse the LC - for a program that doesn't use
anything that is different in Satan Mode - it ought to theoretically run
on a /// as on a ][+.

-uso.
Re: Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353083 is a reply to message #353075] Thu, 21 September 2017 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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I guess I probably should ask this over in c.e.a2 (comp.emulators.apple2) but are there any /// emulators ?

Just wondering how hard it is to add /// emulation to an already working emulator.
Re: Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353085 is a reply to message #353075] Thu, 21 September 2017 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael J. Mahon is currently offline  Michael J. Mahon
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Registered: October 2012
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Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, David Schmidt wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-4, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> 2. I'd initialize "satan mode", then load the modified ROM code I use for
>>> Star Emulator into place. (This also would entail setting up the font,
>>> something I don't know how to do.)
>>
>> The CONSOLE driver has a routine, LOADSET, that loads up a font. it
>> does some chicanery to do the downloading on a VBL interrupt so (I
>> guess) fonts don't change in the middle of the character cell.
>
> With the screen cleared as I would, I don't think it would matter.

There's no choice, as I recall. The character set RAM is loaded by a
peculiar kind of DMA that is triggered by VBL.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
Re: Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353093 is a reply to message #353083] Fri, 22 September 2017 02:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev' wrote:

> I guess I probably should ask this over in c.e.a2
> (comp.emulators.apple2) but are there any /// emulators ?
>
> Just wondering how hard it is to add /// emulation to an already working
> emulator.
>

I've been using MESS/MAME.

-uso.
Re: Odd idea: ProDOS (not SOS) on the /// [message #353096 is a reply to message #353083] Fri, 22 September 2017 05:03 Go to previous message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
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Senior Member
I replied earlier, but I just had another thought.

MAME is the only real Apple /// emu out there for anything other than the
Mac, and I think it's gotten better than its Mac counterpart. A pity,
though, that there isn't a standalone emulator for the /// for Windows
and/or Linux.

I tried to write one. It doesn't work very well.

-uso.
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