| French Touch - Game over [message #350072] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 20:17  |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
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6-Aug-2017 / Game over - It is with great sadness that I would like to officialize the end of the French Touch group on the Apple II.
French Touch was the work of one man, Arnaud Cocquière. Over the years, he brought the most awesome demos on and for the Apple II. He has forced emulator coders to review their code, the limits were constantly pushed and I believe he has not gained enough attention for his work.
All of Arnaud's work is available at http://www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr/2017/08/05/2014-2017/ and I will ensure his works remain available to the masses.
Please do not contact Arnaud, his accounts are deactivated.
Arnaud : bravo et merci, tu es génial !
Antoine
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #350075 is a reply to message #350072] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 21:20  |
anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
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On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 8:17:54 PM UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> 6-Aug-2017 / Game over - It is with great sadness that I would like to officialize the end of the French Touch group on the Apple II.
>
> French Touch was the work of one man, Arnaud Cocquière. Over the years, he brought the most awesome demos on and for the Apple II. He has forced emulator coders to review their code, the limits were constantly pushed and I believe he has not gained enough attention for his work.
>
> All of Arnaud's work is available at http://www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr/2017/08/05/2014-2017/ and I will ensure his works remain available to the masses..
>
> Please do not contact Arnaud, his accounts are deactivated.
>
> Arnaud : bravo et merci, tu es génial !
>
> Antoine
Oh no! What happened to Arnaud?
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #350076 is a reply to message #350072] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 21:23 |
anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
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This is their last post translated to English :
GAME OVER
After more than six years of existence, it is time for me to close this blog and permanently abandon the Apple II. By dint of running after her youth, we finally understand that we will never catch up with her. Ctrl-Pomme-Reset and French Touch are finished. As promised for a long time, you will find hereafter an archive containing all the source codes (under GNU GPL license) of the various French Touch projects and works. Everything is broadcast as it is, no follow-up or technical assistance will be provided.
Sources_FRENCH_TOUCH_2014-2017.zip
I also take advantage of this to make available the digital images scanned in recent years, fruit of a joint work with Jean-Marc and Antoine (archive of 699MB).
DSK.zip
Also download two zip files containing the majority of the discs from which the screenshots of the French Autographs gallery (IIe and GS) are derived. For the Underground Productions galleries, everything must already be available on the Brutal Deluxe side .
CRACKS_FR.zip / CRACKS_FR_GS.zip
Finally, and in the great tradition of the French Apple II scene of the 80s, Big Kiss to: Antoine Vignau , Jean-Marc Boutillon , Fabrice Montupet , Antony Mauget , François Michaud , Olivier Zardini , Mario Patino , Tom Charlesworth Ferry , Marc A. Golombeck , Angel Albertini , Anton Yakovlev, Keonwoo Kim and Alexander Siegfried . In order not to end on a negative note, there will be no Big Shit even if there is a name or two that come to my mind ...
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #350086 is a reply to message #350072] |
Sun, 06 August 2017 03:32 |
STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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It is sad to hear this. I was very interested in his demos.
I have seen several people getting depressed over the lack of response to their work to the point of quitting all together. This reminds me to do my hobby for myself and not for others. Pushing my own boundaries and not those of others. Trying to push other people or expecting them to push themselves will inadvertently lead to frustration.
Thank you for the music...
-Jonas
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #350088 is a reply to message #350086] |
Sun, 06 August 2017 03:42 |
STYNX
Messages: 453
Registered: October 2012
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.... everything needs a French Touch!
Nous entrerons dans la carrière
Quand nos aînés n’y seront plus,
Nous y trouverons leur poussière
Et la trace de leurs vertus!
"vive la France"
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #353136 is a reply to message #350152] |
Fri, 22 September 2017 15:49 |
anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
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Hey Antoine, at the very end he mentions not ending on a negative note, hence no "big shit", even though there are a couple of people he could think of. Would you happen to know what that's all about? I'm not aware of any recent apple ii drama, at least not since the acrimonious days of yore involving Dr Tom Turley and Quantum Cat.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371792 is a reply to message #371787] |
Mon, 06 August 2018 12:57 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
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On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 5:15:13 PM UTC+2, Thomas Harte wrote:
> On Saturday, 5 August 2017 20:17:54 UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
>> All of Arnaud's work is available at http://www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr/2017/08/05/2014-2017/ and I will ensure his works remain available to the masses.
>
> Arnaud's departure is a great loss, and therefore a great shame.
>
> Query on www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr: it seems to have been down for maintenance for at least the last 12 hours. Hopefully that's temporary?
It is not temporary.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371793 is a reply to message #371792] |
Mon, 06 August 2018 13:57 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Harte
On Monday, 6 August 2018 12:57:34 UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 5:15:13 PM UTC+2, Thomas Harte wrote:
>> On Saturday, 5 August 2017 20:17:54 UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
>>> All of Arnaud's work is available at http://www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr/2017/08/05/2014-2017/ and I will ensure his works remain available to the masses.
>>
>> Arnaud's departure is a great loss, and therefore a great shame.
>>
>> Query on www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr: it seems to have been down for maintenance for at least the last 12 hours. Hopefully that's temporary?
>
> It is not temporary.
Then I misunderstood the original message. Apologies. I look forward to the work resurfacing.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371839 is a reply to message #350072] |
Tue, 07 August 2018 23:27 |
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Originally posted by: coach41
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 5:17:54 PM UTC-7, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> 6-Aug-2017 / Game over - It is with great sadness that I would like to officialize the end of the French Touch group on the Apple II.
>
> French Touch was the work of one man, Arnaud Cocquière. Over the years, he brought the most awesome demos on and for the Apple II. He has forced emulator coders to review their code, the limits were constantly pushed and I believe he has not gained enough attention for his work.
>
> All of Arnaud's work is available at http://www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr/2017/08/05/2014-2017/ and I will ensure his works remain available to the masses..
>
> Please do not contact Arnaud, his accounts are deactivated.
>
> Arnaud : bravo et merci, tu es génial !
>
> Antoine
This reminds of someone who used to frequent this group but abandoned the Apple II when Turley was around.
Gosh - those were some interesting days. The flame wars between Turley and other folks here.
DL
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371880 is a reply to message #371839] |
Wed, 08 August 2018 15:10 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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coach41 wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 5:17:54 PM UTC-7, Antoine Vignau wrote:
>> 6-Aug-2017 / Game over - It is with great sadness that I would like to
>> officialize the end of the French Touch group on the Apple II.
>>
>> French Touch was the work of one man, Arnaud Cocquière. Over the years,
>> he brought the most awesome demos on and for the Apple II. He has forced
>> emulator coders to review their code, the limits were constantly pushed
>> and I believe he has not gained enough attention for his work.
>>
>> All of Arnaud's work is available at
>> http://www.ctrl-pomme-reset.fr/2017/08/05/2014-2017/ and I will ensure
>> his works remain available to the masses.
>>
>> Please do not contact Arnaud, his accounts are deactivated.
>>
>> Arnaud : bravo et merci, tu es génial !
>>
>> Antoine
>
> This reminds of someone who used to frequent this group but abandoned the
> Apple II when Turley was around.
You talking about Nathan Mates, who used to maintain the Apple II FAQ?
https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=148645
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371920 is a reply to message #371880] |
Thu, 09 August 2018 06:14 |
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Originally posted by: DL
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-7, D Finnigan wrote:
> coach41 wrote:
>
> You talking about Nathan Mates, who used to maintain the Apple II FAQ?
>
> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=148645
Indeed it was Nathan Mates. I actually looked up the Turley posts via Google and saw Nathan Mates name in the discuss the night before.
Nathan was a character. I remember he got mad, declared he was done with the Apple II and left. I read he deleted all his source code for his programs too or something like that.
I wonder what Nathan is up to these days.
DL
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371938 is a reply to message #371920] |
Thu, 09 August 2018 17:11 |
D Finnigan
Messages: 1154
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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DL wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-7, D Finnigan wrote:
>> coach41 wrote:
>
>>
>> You talking about Nathan Mates, who used to maintain the Apple II FAQ?
>>
>> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=148645
>
> Indeed it was Nathan Mates. I actually looked up the Turley posts via
> Google and saw Nathan Mates name in the discuss the night before.
>
> Nathan was a character. I remember he got mad, declared he was done with
> the Apple II and left. I read he deleted all his source code for his
> programs too or something like that.
"The pirates may be able to steal various works. But, the creator has the
true power that they never can match-- the power to also destroy. To this
end, I have low-leveled all HD partitions and backups on my machines."
- Nathan Mates
http://www.cow.net/laststraw/mates.html
"As long as the Apple II community is too idiotic to tell the difference
between the truth and lies couched in politeness, to tell the difference
between supporting pirates and developers, to tell the difference between
meaningless talk and actually creating, it will be cursed to have more and
more top developers leave. Less and less will be created until the platform
lies in obscurity, only the domain of a few backbiting thieves who'll never
create anything new again."
And amazingly, that's exactly what has happened to the Apple II community!
;-)
--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371963 is a reply to message #350072] |
Fri, 10 August 2018 06:53 |
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Originally posted by: Tom Porter
I was not around when Nathan was the 'big hot-shot' he claimed to be... he could have been?!? but there are some logical statements that do not co-inside with pirates and developers. Who is to say a Pirate, is not a developer? Lets take a quick look at a few statements from his last post...
"The Apple II community doesn't give a 'crap' about the constant piracy, thievery, and hate of developers."
"I have invested many thousands of hours in Apple II creations, from programming to maintaining the best and most correct set of Apple II resources. Thanks to the jerks, this work has been constantly maligned, stolen..."
To me.. a good programmer attempts to learn from his contemporaries. In order to do this, he has to acquire data that has been either created, or maintained by another person. If that wasn't true we'd be all blithering idiots still writing "hello world." So this Nathan dude collected a rather large amount of data "maintaining the best and most correct set of Apple II resources..." . So another programmer (or wan-a-bee, *I use to be one, maybe still am) finds the resources and then figures out how to use it for themselves, or to modify it in a way to suit their purposes. Yes, they are basing some of their own work on the 'shoulder' of others, but this happens all the time in the real world.
Its neither here nor there now that Nathan is making hot-dogs and not active in the Apple II world, but he shouldn't have been expressly upset, at least at this. My personal example is the Compute magazine article from 1986.... I still to this day could not write a 1bit audio recorder in machine language, but I took the basic concept and after a lot of trying, turned it into something that 'at least on the surface' seems to multi-task with other code, thus providing a 'fairly different' experience, and 'something new'.... Was I a pirate, in a sense, yes I was. Did I steal someone else's code, yes, although it was public domain. Was something new created as a result.... I think so. Again, wasn't there at the time and do not know the issues, but a person has to obtain a basis of information from some place, and then they can do with it as they wish from that point. Sorry for the rant.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371978 is a reply to message #371963] |
Fri, 10 August 2018 12:40 |
anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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Piracy is well-defined, there's no debate over it's meaning. The "big-debate" is over whether piracy is actually a good-thing or not, with pirates attempting to justify their actions as akin to Robbin Hood's robberies which were bad-things that were actually "good" because it helped the less fortunate. You'd really need to warp your perspective in order to believe that, but it's surprising how much 'evil' can be accomplished once you shroud it in the name of 'good'.
> Did I steal someone else's code, yes, although it was public domain. Was something new created as a result... I think so.
If it was public domain then it wasn't stolen. I can see based on your post that because you felt that you took someone's code you are therefore a pirate, but just like others have stood on the shoulders of giants so are you, etc... and somehow you find that Nathan would have been antagonistic to your 'piracy' and that he shouldn't be because you've done what everyone else has done which is simply to improve upon the work of others. This, I fear, is starting to make you feel sympathetic with piracy, but it's all based on a misunderstanding. None of what you mentioned you've done is piracy and therefore has nothing to do with Nathan's grievances. Piracy is taking the work of others and distributing it without the author's permission, usually depriving the author of the revenue he depended upon which was the basis for creating said work in the first place. In your case you took something in the public domain and expanded on that... nothing wrong there, no piracy committed, and no conflict whatsoever with Nathan's ideals.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #371987 is a reply to message #371938] |
Fri, 10 August 2018 16:33 |
Michael J. Mahon
Messages: 1767
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
> DL wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-7, D Finnigan wrote:
>>> coach41 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You talking about Nathan Mates, who used to maintain the Apple II FAQ?
>>>
>>> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=148645
>>
>> Indeed it was Nathan Mates. I actually looked up the Turley posts via
>> Google and saw Nathan Mates name in the discuss the night before.
>>
>> Nathan was a character. I remember he got mad, declared he was done with
>> the Apple II and left. I read he deleted all his source code for his
>> programs too or something like that.
>
> "The pirates may be able to steal various works. But, the creator has the
> true power that they never can match-- the power to also destroy. To this
> end, I have low-leveled all HD partitions and backups on my machines."
>
> - Nathan Mates
>
> http://www.cow.net/laststraw/mates.html
>
>
> "As long as the Apple II community is too idiotic to tell the difference
> between the truth and lies couched in politeness, to tell the difference
> between supporting pirates and developers, to tell the difference between
> meaningless talk and actually creating, it will be cursed to have more and
> more top developers leave. Less and less will be created until the platform
> lies in obscurity, only the domain of a few backbiting thieves who'll never
> create anything new again."
>
> And amazingly, that's exactly what has happened to the Apple II community!
> ;-)
>
>
But, of course, not for the reason he stated.
It was, naturally, the shrinking market that caused most developers to
leave the Apple II world.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #372009 is a reply to message #371978] |
Sat, 11 August 2018 07:13 |
barana
Messages: 91
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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I think you have touched upon everything that grieves a developer except the one thing that hits hardest to home,the hardest to get over and the hardest to forget and forgive, which ultimately is what keeps devs like mates and others that are truely talented, away.
That is: pirates stealing their work ... And claiming the innovation for themselves.
And if I'm not wrong Dr Tom was this type of pirate. Case in point is Dr toms little QuickTime demo, su27, which I'm pretty sure was a ripoff of mike westerfields QuickTime player demo included on his CD.
> Anthony Ortiz
Piracy is well-defined, there's no debate over it's meaning. The "big-debate" is over whether piracy is actually a good-thing or not, with pirates attempting to justify their actions as akin to Robbin Hood's robberies which were bad-things that were actually "good" because it helped the less fortunate. You'd really need to warp your perspective in order to believe that, but it's surprising how much 'evil' can be accomplished once you shroud it in the name of 'good'.
> Did I steal someone else's code, yes, although it was public domain. Was something new created as a result... I think so.
If it was public domain then it wasn't stolen. I can see based on your post that because you felt that you took someone's code you are therefore a pirate, but just like others have stood on the shoulders of giants so are you, etc... and somehow you find that Nathan would have been antagonistic to your 'piracy' and that he shouldn't be because you've done what everyone else has done which is simply to improve upon the work of others. This, I fear, is starting to make you feel sympathetic with piracy, but it's all based on a misunderstanding. None of what you mentioned you've done is piracy and therefore has nothing to do with Nathan's grievances. Piracy is taking the work of others and distributing it without the author's permission, usually depriving the author of the revenue he depended upon which was the basis for creating said work in the first place. In your case you took something in the public domain and expanded on that... nothing wrong there, no piracy committed, and no conflict whatsoever with Nathan's ideals.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #372019 is a reply to message #372009] |
Sat, 11 August 2018 11:31 |
anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 7:13:20 AM UTC-4, barana wrote:
> I think you have touched upon everything that grieves a developer except the one thing that hits hardest to home,the hardest to get over and the hardest to forget and forgive, which ultimately is what keeps devs like mates and others that are truely talented, away.
> That is: pirates stealing their work ... And claiming the innovation for themselves.
>
> And if I'm not wrong Dr Tom was this type of pirate. Case in point is Dr toms little QuickTime demo, su27, which I'm pretty sure was a ripoff of mike westerfields QuickTime player demo included on his CD.
Absolutely, I thought of this as I was writing but didn't mention it because I was focusing on just the piracy aspect and didn't want to muddle things; you never know who might get the impression that piracy is only when you claim someone else's work as your own. Dr. Tom not only committed piracy but to add insult to injury he claimed the software as his own, often modifying the programs to display his name as author or contributor.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #372020 is a reply to message #371987] |
Sat, 11 August 2018 11:42 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 10:33:59 PM UTC+2, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
> But, of course, not for the reason he stated.
>
> It was, naturally, the shrinking market that caused most developers to
> leave the Apple II world.
>
> --
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
That is exactly what I think. People can earn some money with h/w nowadays, not with s/w.
av
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #372060 is a reply to message #372020] |
Sun, 12 August 2018 11:56 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Harte
On Saturday, 11 August 2018 11:42:48 UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> That is exactly what I think. People can earn some money with h/w nowadays, not with s/w.
> av
I feel like people are willing to spend money on hardware because it costs money to build it, removing any option of it being free — and as soon as you're in the money-spending frame of mind you don't mind chucking in a little for the creator's time.
Conversely software is not only free to redistribute, but in the last thirty years the free software movement has really raised the bar on what you can get for free. So the mental anchoring is different. Entire modern operating systems are available for free, and pretty much everything else is less work than that.
Obviously it's a completely different conversation in 2018 than it was in 1998, almost exactly twice as far from the birth of the Apple II, but I think Arnaud had the right instincts in writing software for no reason other than to surprise and delight, and it's a shame he didn't feel he was getting enough response to make it worthwhile continuing to do so.
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #372065 is a reply to message #372062] |
Sun, 12 August 2018 16:53 |
anthonypaulo
Messages: 531
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 3:33:39 PM UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> That is not the reason why Arnaud left.
Hey Antoine,
Is the reason for his departure to be kept secret or can you share it?
Anthony
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| Re: French Touch - Game over [message #372066 is a reply to message #372062] |
Sun, 12 August 2018 17:32 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Harte
On Sunday, 12 August 2018 15:33:39 UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> That is not the reason why Arnaud left.
I see I had taken STYNX's speculation too authoritatively; I should learn to read more carefully.
In case it wasn't obvious, I don't know Arnaud. I know nothing that isn't on this thread. Antoine's contradiction should be taken as authoritative.
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