| Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342300] |
Mon, 24 April 2017 23:39  |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi again!
I bought 4 sticks of 16mb (4 x 16= 64mb total) 30-pin 80ns non-parity ram from 18004memory.com
I have working 4 x 4mb=16mb total old ram that boots just fine.
I am running system 7.5 (no updates, just 7.5, I chose 'for my machine only' when I installed the system. I have the Apple official floppy set.)
I do NOT have a parity chip on my iici board.
I have a delta powersupply (just replaced and functions great)
I re-capped the motherboard.
There are 8 ram slots in my iici.
I installed the 4 (4x16mb)ram sticks in bank a and then left bank b empty.
I tried booting and I get the chime and then the screen just doesn't get a picture and nothing happens.
I tried adding 4 x 4mb into bank b and 4 x 16mb into bank a and booting and the same thing happens.
I put the 4 x 16mb into bank b and the 4 x 4mb into bank a and the same thing happens.
I put the 4 x 4 Mb into bank a and leave bank b empty and it boots perfectly.
I thought the ram was bad and I returned it and they sent 4 new replacement 16mb Simms.
I did the above again and got the same results with the replacement 4 x 16mb
I also tried holding the shift key down and it still wouldn't start.
I have no cards installed. (Not even the 32kb cache card).
I have zapped the pram.
The system battery is about 6 months old.
I have no external devices connected except Apple monitor, Apple keyboard, Apple mouse.
Is there something I'm doing wrong?
Can system 7.5 not see 16mb ram Simms?
It can't be possible that I would get 2 sets of 4 x 16mb ram and both sets would be bad?
(Note: I had put a small red dot hidden in the corner of the ram so I would know if they just sent me the same ones back. The replacement were in fact ones I had not tried.)
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342301 is a reply to message #342300] |
Tue, 25 April 2017 02:38  |
Clark Martin
Messages: 156
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Give it plenty of time to boot. The RAM test for 64 Mb will take quite a while. Try letting it boot for an hour, that should be more than enough time.
There is a way to stop it from running the RAM test at startup. IIRC you hold down the Command key while opening the Memory control panel and an additional option appears.
Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 PM, 'mossheart9' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hi again!
> I bought 4 sticks of 16mb (4 x 16= 64mb total) 30-pin 80ns non-parity ram from 18004memory.com
>
> I have working 4 x 4mb=16mb total old ram that boots just fine.
> I am running system 7.5 (no updates, just 7.5, I chose 'for my machine only' when I installed the system. I have the Apple official floppy set.)
> I do NOT have a parity chip on my iici board.
> I have a delta powersupply (just replaced and functions great)
> I re-capped the motherboard.
>
> There are 8 ram slots in my iici.
> I installed the 4 (4x16mb)ram sticks in bank a and then left bank b empty.
> I tried booting and I get the chime and then the screen just doesn't get a picture and nothing happens.
> I tried adding 4 x 4mb into bank b and 4 x 16mb into bank a and booting and the same thing happens.
>
> I put the 4 x 16mb into bank b and the 4 x 4mb into bank a and the same thing happens.
>
> I put the 4 x 4 Mb into bank a and leave bank b empty and it boots perfectly.
>
> I thought the ram was bad and I returned it and they sent 4 new replacement 16mb Simms.
>
> I did the above again and got the same results with the replacement 4 x 16mb
>
> I also tried holding the shift key down and it still wouldn't start.
>
> I have no cards installed. (Not even the 32kb cache card).
> I have zapped the pram.
> The system battery is about 6 months old.
> I have no external devices connected except Apple monitor, Apple keyboard, Apple mouse.
>
> Is there something I'm doing wrong?
> Can system 7.5 not see 16mb ram Simms?
> It can't be possible that I would get 2 sets of 4 x 16mb ram and both sets would be bad?
>
>
>
> (Note: I had put a small red dot hidden in the corner of the ram so I would know if they just sent me the same ones back. The replacement were in fact ones I had not tried.)
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342302 is a reply to message #342301] |
Tue, 25 April 2017 02:49 |
Notgoing Totellyou
Messages: 284
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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yeah 64 meg of ram takes almost 2 minutes or more before it will even boot... keep in mind back then 128megs of ram would have cost like $80,000 dollars... lol don't quote me on that price... but ALOT... anyways yeah if you want to look into a HACKED rom simm... DOUGG3 use to be the guy that Sold them... and BBraun is the guy that made the ROM image that worked so well with the IIci and SE/30 as well. part of that beautiful rom that rob braun patched is a NO ram test.... for those with massive amounts of ram.
Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
MACCAPS.COM
14511 W ELEVEN MILE ROAD
Oak Park, Mi 48237
UNITED STATES
Thanks.
Charles Phillips
248 325 8812
On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:38 AM, Clark Martin <cmmac@sonic.net> wrote:
> Give it plenty of time to boot. The RAM test for 64 Mb will take quite a while. Try letting it boot for an hour, that should be more than enough time.
>
> There is a way to stop it from running the RAM test at startup. IIRC you hold down the Command key while opening the Memory control panel and an additional option appears.
>
> Clark Martin
> A designated driver on the information Super Highway
>
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 PM, 'mossheart9' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi again!
>> I bought 4 sticks of 16mb (4 x 16= 64mb total) 30-pin 80ns non-parity ram from 18004memory.com
>>
>> I have working 4 x 4mb=16mb total old ram that boots just fine.
>> I am running system 7.5 (no updates, just 7.5, I chose 'for my machine only' when I installed the system. I have the Apple official floppy set.)
>> I do NOT have a parity chip on my iici board.
>> I have a delta powersupply (just replaced and functions great)
>> I re-capped the motherboard.
>>
>> There are 8 ram slots in my iici.
>> I installed the 4 (4x16mb)ram sticks in bank a and then left bank b empty.
>> I tried booting and I get the chime and then the screen just doesn't get a picture and nothing happens.
>> I tried adding 4 x 4mb into bank b and 4 x 16mb into bank a and booting and the same thing happens.
>>
>> I put the 4 x 16mb into bank b and the 4 x 4mb into bank a and the same thing happens.
>>
>> I put the 4 x 4 Mb into bank a and leave bank b empty and it boots perfectly.
>>
>> I thought the ram was bad and I returned it and they sent 4 new replacement 16mb Simms.
>>
>> I did the above again and got the same results with the replacement 4 x 16mb
>>
>> I also tried holding the shift key down and it still wouldn't start.
>>
>> I have no cards installed. (Not even the 32kb cache card).
>> I have zapped the pram.
>> The system battery is about 6 months old.
>> I have no external devices connected except Apple monitor, Apple keyboard, Apple mouse.
>>
>> Is there something I'm doing wrong?
>> Can system 7.5 not see 16mb ram Simms?
>> It can't be possible that I would get 2 sets of 4 x 16mb ram and both sets would be bad?
>>
>>
>>
>> (Note: I had put a small red dot hidden in the corner of the ram so I would know if they just sent me the same ones back. The replacement were in fact ones I had not tried.)
>
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342303 is a reply to message #342300] |
Tue, 25 April 2017 02:55 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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How many chips are on each SIMM? I had a IIci with a 66Mhz Turbo 601 and 128 meg RAM. IIRC there were 16 chips per SIMM. There's a specific maximum number of bits per chip these old Macs can address. Having more memory per SIMM or DIMM requires more chips instead of higher capacity chips.For 16 meg SIMMS in a IIci I'd expect them to need 16 chips each.
You always have to have RAM in Bank A because that's where the IIci's video RAM is taken from. If you are using different capacity SIMMs, but the larger ones in Bank B. If you're not planning to go up to 128 meg you may find it easier (and better performing) to get eight 8 meg SIMMs, with 8 chips on each.
On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:39:41 PM MDT, 'mossheart9' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:Hi again!
I bought 4 sticks of 16mb (4 x 16= 64mb total) 30-pin 80ns non-parity ram from 18004memory.com
I have working 4 x 4mb=16mb total old ram that boots just fine.
I am running system 7.5 (no updates, just 7.5, I chose 'for my machine only' when I installed the system. I have the Apple official floppy set.)
I do NOT have a parity chip on my iici board.
I have a delta powersupply (just replaced and functions great)
I re-capped the motherboard.
There are 8 ram slots in my iici.
I installed the 4 (4x16mb)ram sticks in bank a and then left bank b empty.
I tried booting and I get the chime and then the screen just doesn't get a picture and nothing happens.
I tried adding 4 x 4mb into bank b and 4 x 16mb into bank a and booting and the same thing happens.
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342304 is a reply to message #342301] |
Tue, 25 April 2017 03:29 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
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68k Macs can't disable the bootup RAM test, at least the IIci can't. With a Turbo 601 I was only able to disable the test when booting to the PPC card.
Since it is possible to set a flag in the PRAM on a IIci to bypass the boot RAM test, with a 601 upgrade that enables the hidden function in Apple's Memory control panel, why hasn't anyone written a software utility to set that PRAM flag without a 601 upgrade installed?
For someone to do that they'd need software capable of reading out the PRAM with a Turbo 601 installed, in enabled and disabled states. Read it with PPC enabled and RAM test on, then with PPC enabled and RAM test off. Compare both VS PRAM state with the PPC installed and disabled. The bits that are different between the PPC enabled and test on and test off are what needs to be set without a PPC to disable the test. Different bist between PPC enabled and disabled are what the Turbo 601 CP toggles. Then for more fun, read the PRAM immediately after booting from a PRAM zap. Of course the PRAM reader for that state would need to be 24 bit compatible. (See next paragraph.)
An odd thing I noticed with the Turbo 601 is when I had it set to boot to PPC and did a PRAM zap, it would boot Mac OS 7.6 in 24 bit mode. The amount of available RAM was way low, with most of the 128 meg taken up by "System" - and the Memory control panel gained a 24 - 32 bit switch. I never tried running any software requiring 24 bit mode, I'd always just flip that switch to 32 bit, re-enable the PPC and reboot. The switch on the Memory panel would vanish, only to return again with a PRAM zap. I thought many times about investigating that further, getting screen shots of 7.6 in 24 bit mode, but ehhh, I just wanted to get back to to PowerMac mode ASAP. I never just rebooted to see if 24 bit mode would stick or if it would reset itself to 32 bit.
Had to be something weird the Turbo 601 did in PRAM because unlike other CPU upgrade cards, once enabled it didn't need a control panel to switch to the PPC, it completely bypassed the 68030 from power on. The 601 control panel was only needed for turning on a couple of performance boosting options.
Apple's 601 Upgrade control panel could *disable* 3rd party 601 upgrades but once turned off, Apple's CP would say "601 upgrade? I don't see any 601 upgrade." Apparently it would check the PRAM state with a Turbo 601 enabled, and could set the state to normal, but to turn it on it'd first check for an Apple 601 upgrade (which IIRC they only made for 68040's) and not finding one would not enable a 3rd party one.
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 12:45:56 AM MDT, Clark Martin <cmmac@sonic.net> wrote:Give it plenty of time to boot. The RAM test for 64 Mb will take quite a while. Try letting it boot for an hour, that should be more than enough time.
There is a way to stop it from running the RAM test at startup. IIRC you hold down the Command key while opening the Memory control panel and an additional option appears.
Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342305 is a reply to message #342302] |
Tue, 25 April 2017 03:32 |
Notgoing Totellyou
Messages: 284
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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correction to my previous email... i meant 128 megs of ram, though 64 megs does still take a bit to boot up as well. I use that that same company too they are good... 18004memory or whatever they are on ebay and amazon... good folks.
> yeah 64 meg of ram takes almost 2 minutes or more before it will even boot... keep in mind back then 128megs of ram would have cost like $80,000 dollars... lol don't quote me on that price... but ALOT... anyways yeah if you want to look into a HACKED rom simm... DOUGG3 use to be the guy that Sold them... and BBraun is the guy that made the ROM image that worked so well with the IIci and SE/30 as well. part of that beautiful rom that rob braun patched is a NO ram test.... for those with massive amounts of ram.
>
>
> Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
>
> MACCAPS.COM
> 14511 W ELEVEN MILE ROAD
> Oak Park, Mi 48237
> UNITED STATES
>
> Thanks.
> Charles Phillips
> 248 325 8812
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:38 AM, Clark Martin <cmmac@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Give it plenty of time to boot. The RAM test for 64 Mb will take quite a while. Try letting it boot for an hour, that should be more than enough time.
>>
>> There is a way to stop it from running the RAM test at startup. IIRC you hold down the Command key while opening the Memory control panel and an additional option appears.
>>
>> Clark Martin
>> A designated driver on the information Super Highway
>>
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 PM, 'mossheart9' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi again!
>>> I bought 4 sticks of 16mb (4 x 16= 64mb total) 30-pin 80ns non-parity ram from 18004memory.com
>>>
>>> I have working 4 x 4mb=16mb total old ram that boots just fine.
>>> I am running system 7.5 (no updates, just 7.5, I chose 'for my machine only' when I installed the system. I have the Apple official floppy set.)
>>> I do NOT have a parity chip on my iici board.
>>> I have a delta powersupply (just replaced and functions great)
>>> I re-capped the motherboard.
>>>
>>> There are 8 ram slots in my iici.
>>> I installed the 4 (4x16mb)ram sticks in bank a and then left bank b empty.
>>> I tried booting and I get the chime and then the screen just doesn't get a picture and nothing happens.
>>> I tried adding 4 x 4mb into bank b and 4 x 16mb into bank a and booting and the same thing happens.
>>>
>>> I put the 4 x 16mb into bank b and the 4 x 4mb into bank a and the same thing happens.
>>>
>>> I put the 4 x 4 Mb into bank a and leave bank b empty and it boots perfectly.
>>>
>>> I thought the ram was bad and I returned it and they sent 4 new replacement 16mb Simms.
>>>
>>> I did the above again and got the same results with the replacement 4 x 16mb
>>>
>>> I also tried holding the shift key down and it still wouldn't start.
>>>
>>> I have no cards installed. (Not even the 32kb cache card).
>>> I have zapped the pram.
>>> The system battery is about 6 months old.
>>> I have no external devices connected except Apple monitor, Apple keyboard, Apple mouse.
>>>
>>> Is there something I'm doing wrong?
>>> Can system 7.5 not see 16mb ram Simms?
>>> It can't be possible that I would get 2 sets of 4 x 16mb ram and both sets would be bad?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Note: I had put a small red dot hidden in the corner of the ram so I would know if they just sent me the same ones back. The replacement were in fact ones I had not tried.)
>>
>> --
>> --
>> -----
>> You received this message because you are a member of the Vintage Macs group.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>> To post to this group, send email to vintage-macs@googlegroups.com
>> To leave this group, send email to vintage-macs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-macs
>>
>> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342306 is a reply to message #342305] |
Tue, 25 April 2017 03:34 |
Notgoing Totellyou
Messages: 284
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
https://www.bigmessowires.com/mac-rom-inator-ii/
oh yes forgot Big Mess Of wires picked up the 68k mac hac rom project...
i wish he did the 8meg rom... i guess 4mb was a compromise... between 2mb and 8mb....
its ok i still have like 4 or 5 8meg roms here... :)
Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
MACCAPS.COM
14511 W ELEVEN MILE ROAD
Oak Park, Mi 48237
UNITED STATES
Thanks.
Charles Phillips
248 325 8812
On Apr 25, 2017, at 3:32 AM, Hardware Mack <hardwaremack@gmail.com> wrote:
> correction to my previous email... i meant 128 megs of ram, though 64 megs does still take a bit to boot up as well. I use that that same company too they are good... 18004memory or whatever they are on ebay and amazon... good folks.
>
>> yeah 64 meg of ram takes almost 2 minutes or more before it will even boot... keep in mind back then 128megs of ram would have cost like $80,000 dollars... lol don't quote me on that price... but ALOT... anyways yeah if you want to look into a HACKED rom simm... DOUGG3 use to be the guy that Sold them... and BBraun is the guy that made the ROM image that worked so well with the IIci and SE/30 as well. part of that beautiful rom that rob braun patched is a NO ram test.... for those with massive amounts of ram.
>>
>>
>> Sent from the office of MacCaps.com
>>
>> MACCAPS.COM
>> 14511 W ELEVEN MILE ROAD
>> Oak Park, Mi 48237
>> UNITED STATES
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Charles Phillips
>> 248 325 8812
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:38 AM, Clark Martin <cmmac@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Give it plenty of time to boot. The RAM test for 64 Mb will take quite a while. Try letting it boot for an hour, that should be more than enough time.
>>>
>>> There is a way to stop it from running the RAM test at startup. IIRC you hold down the Command key while opening the Memory control panel and an additional option appears.
>>>
>>> Clark Martin
>>> A designated driver on the information Super Highway
>>>
>>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 PM, 'mossheart9' via Vintage Macs <vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi again!
>>>> I bought 4 sticks of 16mb (4 x 16= 64mb total) 30-pin 80ns non-parity ram from 18004memory.com
>>>>
>>>> I have working 4 x 4mb=16mb total old ram that boots just fine.
>>>> I am running system 7.5 (no updates, just 7.5, I chose 'for my machine only' when I installed the system. I have the Apple official floppy set.)
>>>> I do NOT have a parity chip on my iici board.
>>>> I have a delta powersupply (just replaced and functions great)
>>>> I re-capped the motherboard.
>>>>
>>>> There are 8 ram slots in my iici.
>>>> I installed the 4 (4x16mb)ram sticks in bank a and then left bank b empty.
>>>> I tried booting and I get the chime and then the screen just doesn't get a picture and nothing happens.
>>>> I tried adding 4 x 4mb into bank b and 4 x 16mb into bank a and booting and the same thing happens.
>>>>
>>>> I put the 4 x 16mb into bank b and the 4 x 4mb into bank a and the same thing happens.
>>>>
>>>> I put the 4 x 4 Mb into bank a and leave bank b empty and it boots perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> I thought the ram was bad and I returned it and they sent 4 new replacement 16mb Simms.
>>>>
>>>> I did the above again and got the same results with the replacement 4 x 16mb
>>>>
>>>> I also tried holding the shift key down and it still wouldn't start.
>>>>
>>>> I have no cards installed. (Not even the 32kb cache card).
>>>> I have zapped the pram.
>>>> The system battery is about 6 months old.
>>>> I have no external devices connected except Apple monitor, Apple keyboard, Apple mouse.
>>>>
>>>> Is there something I'm doing wrong?
>>>> Can system 7.5 not see 16mb ram Simms?
>>>> It can't be possible that I would get 2 sets of 4 x 16mb ram and both sets would be bad?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (Note: I had put a small red dot hidden in the corner of the ram so I would know if they just sent me the same ones back. The replacement were in fact ones I had not tried.)
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
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>
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| Re: Help: iici doesn't boot with 16mb ram Simms ? [message #342310 is a reply to message #342309] |
Thu, 27 April 2017 14:26 |
Jeff Hubatka
Messages: 16
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I just tested my SE/30 with 68MB of RAM and 1GB hard drive running 7.5.3,
it takes 2:10 to start up.
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 6:52:43 AM UTC-7, mossheart9 wrote:
>
> I had a major discovery and had to post back in case someone else runs
> into this same situation.
>
> After doing everything above, my start up time from the time I hit the
> power-on keyboard button to the time that the computer was useable was
> about 2:20. Of which 2:05 was black screen.
> This was the start up time consistantly until I did the following.
>
> I was installing software that had me hold the shift key down when I
> started up.
> Surprisingly the machine booted up in 15 seconds with the extensions off.
>
> But then after restarting and not holding the shift key down it STILL
> started in 15 seconds.
>
> Somehow, just having held the shift key down once and started it up,
> unlocked something in the computer and now start up is perfect!
>
>
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