| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346475 is a reply to message #346190] |
Wed, 07 June 2017 15:20   |
Jon Elson
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2013
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Peter Flass wrote:
> Chicago has some kind of underground transport system in the Loop to move
> freight.
>
Used largely for mail now, I think. Also, delivers distribution power to
large buildings. Somebody drove a pier piling into an abandoned section of
tunnel that nobody even remembered existed, and flooded it in 1992. Much of
the downtown Chicago business district was shut down for several days.
Jon
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346519 is a reply to message #346065] |
Thu, 08 June 2017 19:29 |
Joy Beeson
Messages: 159
Registered: June 2012
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On Wed, 31 May 2017 20:41:07 +0100, BirchangerKen <ken@birchanger.com>
wrote:
> I'd challenge the OP on claiming that the system was used because the
> store didn't trust their employees. They probably trusted them no more
> or less than they do today, but I think the use of a centralised
> cashier was due to other reasons, including the cost or unavailability
> of PoS equipment and a mindset that saw the floor of a department
> floor as being just the same as a small shop only bigger.
Not to mention that if every employee made change, every employee
would have to have an apronful of change. One big cashbox could get
by on fewer fives than dozens of little cashboxes.
And I don't suppose it would be dignified to keep one's bank in a nail
apron, so a clerk would always be having to turn his back on the
cashbox, or walk away from it entirely.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346524 is a reply to message #346519] |
Thu, 08 June 2017 21:57 |
Michael Black
Messages: 2799
Registered: February 2012
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On Thu, 8 Jun 2017, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2017 20:41:07 +0100, BirchangerKen <ken@birchanger.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'd challenge the OP on claiming that the system was used because the
>> store didn't trust their employees. They probably trusted them no more
>> or less than they do today, but I think the use of a centralised
>> cashier was due to other reasons, including the cost or unavailability
>> of PoS equipment and a mindset that saw the floor of a department
>> floor as being just the same as a small shop only bigger.
>
> Not to mention that if every employee made change, every employee
> would have to have an apronful of change. One big cashbox could get
> by on fewer fives than dozens of little cashboxes.
>
We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a department
store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to use that cash (or
prohibited from paying for something from another department there).
But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so both
ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more centralized
cash registers, which likely means they need fewer employees, or at least
employees aren't waiting around for customers.
Michael
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346527 is a reply to message #346524] |
Thu, 08 June 2017 22:52 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
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Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to use
> that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
> department there).
>
> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
the institution as well as customer.
under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance). However
under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue with human
directing to the next available cashier.
computer related ... this comes closer to my long time rant about global
LRU outperforming local LRU .... somebody needs a page ... and global
LRU checks all possible pages for virtual page as best choice to replace
(serve) ... while local LRU, partitions and only examines small
subset. local LRU can come close to global LRU when everything is steady
state and homogeneous ... but real world tends to be bursty and
non-homogeneous ... one partition has a bunch of non-used pages while
another partition has high demand for partition. LRU & local/global past
posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#clock
Something similar was remote 3270 with 19.2kbits link per controller or
channel extension with T1 for group of controllers. Total bandwidth and
total 3270 terminals are the same ... best case for remote 3270 is
19.2kbits, but 3270 terminal activity tends to be very bursty
(full-screen writes and possibly full screen reads) ... shared T1 will
never be worse than remote 3270 and majority of the time enormously
better. channel extension posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender
similar analysis with 37x5 telecommunication controller supporting
19.2kbit remote 3270, versus Series1 and some non-IBM hadware
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#67 System/1 ?
when google started out with load increasing ... they load balanced
queries against back-end server with rotating DNS A-records (i.e. they
would change the top ip-address in the list of server ip-addresses for
"google.com"). That worked somewhat ... however, large ISPs cache DNS
responses ... so it would be static for potentitally 2-3 hrs (server
with ip-address at top of list would be overloaded, while other servers
in the list would have little or no traffic). They then went to pool of
internet facing routers that had extra code that would track back-end
server load and do dynamic routing for load-balancing requests to the
backend servers.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#13 RFC 2616 change proposal to increase speed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009s.html#59 Problem with XP scheduler?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#51 Has there been a change in US banking regulations recently?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#81 What is Cloud Computing?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#83 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#61 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#8 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#50 Western Union envisioned internet functionality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#35 Moving to the Cloud
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346534 is a reply to message #346527] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 04:31 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance). However
> under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue with human
> directing to the next available cashier.
Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend to
have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till to show
free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the till operator
will just shout "Next Please".
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346536 is a reply to message #346534] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 05:23 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>
>> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
>> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance). However
>> under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue with human
>> directing to the next available cashier.
>
> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend to
> have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till to show
> free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the till operator
> will just shout "Next Please".
They tell me that if someone goes into Dunnes (Local supermarket) with
large amounts of cash, they can cause a crises, most people use debit cards.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346537 is a reply to message #346536] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 05:55 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 9 Jun 2017 09:23:07 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
>>> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance).
>>> However under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue
>>> with human directing to the next available cashier.
>>
>> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend
>> to have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till
>> to show free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the
>> till operator will just shout "Next Please".
>
>
> They tell me that if someone goes into Dunnes (Local supermarket) with
> large amounts of cash, they can cause a crises, most people use debit
> cards.
I don't see it - you'd be hard put to get a trolley full over a few
hundred (OK maybe a thousand or so if you hit the booze section hard) and
that's nothing to write home about in 50s. Proffer a 500 Euro note in there
and I think you'll get an immediate refusal.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346539 is a reply to message #346527] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 09:32 |
osmium
Messages: 749
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 6/8/2017 9:52 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
>> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
>> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to use
>> that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
>> department there).
>>
>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
> the institution as well as customer.
Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
calculus is mandatory for science.
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346540 is a reply to message #346534] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 11:27 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend
> to have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till
> to show free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the
> till operator will just shout "Next Please".
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#90 pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer?
places like coffee shops with multiple clerks taking orders and single
queue ... "next please" sometimes is said several times, increasingly
louder.
slightly larger, pull paper number from dispenser, multiple
server/clerks behind counter and lighted number. free clerk will
increment number and call it out loud. customers not actually in
line/queue , but milling around and may have wandered off ... so clerk
may have to repeat for several numbers.
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346541 is a reply to message #346540] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 11:31 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-6, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> places like coffee shops with multiple clerks taking orders and single
> queue ... "next please" sometimes is said several times, increasingly
> louder.
Which shows that queuing theory is all right for operating systems, but for
physical queues of real people, practice involves complicated variables that
cannot be reduced to simple theories.
John Savard
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346542 is a reply to message #346539] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 12:01 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
> calculus is mandatory for science.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#90 pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#91 pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer?
much simpler ... airlines calling bording by seat number ranges
.... large number of people not able to tell whether their seat number is
within range. airlines then start printing boarding group letter ...
only board when their letter is called. still some significant number of
people don't even understand directions ... just when they see some
number of the crowd moving ... they start moving also.
that is separate from the people that don't believe rules apply to them
.... recent articles about people (fraudulently) claiming "service dog"
for their dog ... and I've previously posted about people parking in
handicapped parking, a couple old handicapped parking posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#46 MP cost effectiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#26 Linguistic loggerheads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#11 50th anniversary S/360 coming up
and some number of articles that make survey of ethical behavior and
identify graduates like lawyers, economists, MBAs, investmnet bankers
being especially ethically challenged ... effectively being taught that
systems are something to be "gamed".
and with regard to references having been asked in 1999 to try and help
stop the coming economic mess,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#economic.mess
I've periodically posted about wallstreet and investment banking
especially attractive to sociopaths ... as well as programs that pay
prominent economists to fabricate excuses for what went on.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#16 should I encrypt over a private network?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#21 The first personal computer (PC)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#28 The first personal computer (PC)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#51 Advice from Richard P. Feynman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#52 How Many Divisions Does Standard and Poors Have?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#4 Geithner, Bernanke have little in arsenal to fight new crisis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#5 AIG's Bank Of America Suit Puts Trashy Paper On Display
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#62 Search Google, 1960:s-style
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#20 The Big Fail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#57 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#73 More Whistleblower Leaks on Foreclosure Settlement Show Both Suppression of Evidence and Gross Incompetence
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#44 Adair Turner: A New Debt-Free Money Advocate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#89 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#29 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#1 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#48 Ex-Wall Street chieftains living large in post-meltdown world
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#52 Lehman Brothers collapse: was capitalism to blame?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#76 The Scholars Who Shill for Wall Street
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#81 Academics Who Defend Wall St. Reap Reward
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#3 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#68 Economists and our responsibilities to society
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#2 weird apple trivia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#24 Forget the McDonnells. We're ignoring bigger, more pernicious corruption right under our noses
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#67 Economics Has a Math Problem
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#73 Economists' Tribal Thinking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#28 rationality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016b.html#38 Ransomware
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016c.html#84 Wells Fargo "Admits Deceiving" U.S. Government, Pays Record $1.2 Billion Settlement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016d.html#26 How the computer transformed economics. And didn't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#34 If economists want to be trusted again, they should learn to tell jokes
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346545 is a reply to message #346536] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 13:19 |
Michael Black
Messages: 2799
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Fri, 9 Jun 2017, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
>>> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance). However
>>> under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue with human
>>> directing to the next available cashier.
>>
>> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend to
>> have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till to show
>> free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the till operator
>> will just shout "Next Please".
>
>
> They tell me that if someone goes into Dunnes (Local supermarket) with
> large amounts of cash, they can cause a crises, most people use debit cards.
>
I only use cash, though I guess if I was buying something expensive I'd
use my debit card. I did when I got a tv set in 2011.
But it does come as a surprise, every so often I am served by a cashier
who automatically does something towards the debit card reader, so it
would seem that those cashiers expect people to use debit cards.
Michael
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346549 is a reply to message #346537] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 14:15 |
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Originally posted by: JimP.
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:55:42 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 9 Jun 2017 09:23:07 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
>>>> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance).
>>>> However under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue
>>>> with human directing to the next available cashier.
>>>
>>> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend
>>> to have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till
>>> to show free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the
>>> till operator will just shout "Next Please".
>>
>>
>> They tell me that if someone goes into Dunnes (Local supermarket) with
>> large amounts of cash, they can cause a crises, most people use debit
>> cards.
>
> I don't see it - you'd be hard put to get a trolley full over a few
> hundred (OK maybe a thousand or so if you hit the booze section hard) and
> that's nothing to write home about in 50s. Proffer a 500 Euro note in there
> and I think you'll get an immediate refusal.
Saw someone years ago try to pay a bill just under $100 with a $100
dollar bill. The cashier said they couldn't take $100s. The customer
pointed out they would be getting back less than 5 dollars in change.
The manager had to okay the transaction.
I can see refusal if the customer is just looking to use the store as
a bank and break that large of a bill, but if its just a small amount
of change back, it should be accepted.
Of course, there is the time a fast food burger place employee took a
$1,000,000.00 fake note and tried to make change.
--
Jim
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346550 is a reply to message #346541] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 14:17 |
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Originally posted by: JimP.
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-6, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>> places like coffee shops with multiple clerks taking orders and single
>> queue ... "next please" sometimes is said several times, increasingly
>> louder.
>
> Which shows that queuing theory is all right for operating systems, but for
> physical queues of real people, practice involves complicated variables that
> cannot be reduced to simple theories.
>
> John Savard
Yes, the X factor exemplified by the customer who wanders off,
physically or mentally.
--
Jim
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346552 is a reply to message #346550] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 14:30 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 12:17:12 PM UTC-6, JimP. wrote:
> Yes, the X factor exemplified by the customer who wanders off,
> physically or mentally.
Ah, yes, the "X Factor". Before that became the name of a second mutant
superhero group, the Mad Thinker, foiled in his first encounter with the
Fantastic Four, vowed to include the X Factor into his computer predictions the
next time.
And indeed he did; he expressed his computer predictions as probabilities.
Eventually, just as the Penguin switched from... oh, dear, what was it?
Penguins? ... to umbrellas, he ended up switching to using androids as his
weapon.
John Savard
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346557 is a reply to message #346539] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 15:56 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:32:59 AM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
>>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>>> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>>> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>> the institution as well as customer.
> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
> calculus is mandatory for science.
Some observations...
First, a corporate staff may well understand queuing theory, but
corporate _management_ may not be interested in spending the money
to implement the staff's recommendations. Or, management may be
content with a higher level of customer waiting time.
Secondly, queuing theory is a statistical prediction, not hard science.
Random events can produce a sudden load of unexpected customers at
any time, overwhelming the business. For instance, one night after
a school event, for some reason everyone decided to go to the supermarket,
which is normally quiet at that time. The one checker on duty was
overwhelmed; the manager manned another register, but even that wasn't
enough.
AFAIK, business majors do have to take general statistics as well
as an additional quantitative methods class (e.g. linear programming).
How many business majors go on to use Poisson and other statistical
tools is questionable. I dare say only a relatively few who end up
as specialists do so. The typical application programmer would not.
If they're opening a supermarket, I don't know who in the company
plans the number of checkout lanes, nor plans the number of cashiers
on duty at any given time. I dare say they have a specialist for that,
who does other things like determine the number of parking spaces, the
amount of square footage, air conditioning needs, etc.
For someone developing a brand new on-line system, obviously there
must be an estimate of peak customer (user) load and the resources
needed to meet that load. I don't know if that would be done by
the application person, the database administrator, the server
administrator, or some other specialist. Historically, I think IBM
did a lot of that planning for its CICS customers.
The telephone company developed traffic engineering to a high art.
Telephone switching and trunk equipment was very expensive, and
they sought to find the optimum level. Too much would waste money,
too little would yield poor service. The Bell System Technical
Journal has lots of articles on that. Big users of Poisson. In
the old days, they spent a lot of time monitoring service quality,
such as waits for a dial tone, calls that failed, etc.
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346559 is a reply to message #346527] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 16:09 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
>> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
>> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to use
>> that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
>> department there).
>>
>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>
> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
> the institution as well as customer.
Assuming that all these people do is ring up sales. Having multiple people
in a department gives some a chance to help customers while others work the
register. The trend toward "friendly fourteos, efficient self-service" has
gone too far in many stores. At least Home Depot has lots of people roaming
the floor to answer "where can I find..." questions or more involved
inquiries.
--
Pete
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346565 is a reply to message #346557] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 16:36 |
osmium
Messages: 749
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 6/9/2017 2:56 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:32:59 AM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
>
>
>>>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>>>> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>>>> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>>> the institution as well as customer.
>> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
>> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
>> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
>> calculus is mandatory for science.
> Some observations...
>
> First, a corporate staff may well understand queuing theory, but
> corporate _management_ may not be interested in spending the money
> to implement the staff's recommendations. Or, management may be
> content with a higher level of customer waiting time.
If you have five tellers in a bank, it doesn't take a ton of money to
put up a sign that says "Wait here for the next teller".
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346568 is a reply to message #346557] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 17:07 |
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Originally posted by: JimP.
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 12:56:18 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:32:59 AM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
>
>
>>>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>>>> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>>>> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>>> the institution as well as customer.
>
>> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
>> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
>> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
>> calculus is mandatory for science.
>
> Some observations...
>
> First, a corporate staff may well understand queuing theory, but
> corporate _management_ may not be interested in spending the money
> to implement the staff's recommendations. Or, management may be
> content with a higher level of customer waiting time.
>
> Secondly, queuing theory is a statistical prediction, not hard science.
> Random events can produce a sudden load of unexpected customers at
> any time, overwhelming the business. For instance, one night after
> a school event, for some reason everyone decided to go to the supermarket,
> which is normally quiet at that time. The one checker on duty was
> overwhelmed; the manager manned another register, but even that wasn't
> enough.
There is an interesting MythBusters episode where they try to find the
best queueing method for boarding and airplane, and one for the best
at a supermarket.
Neither the airlines, nor supermarkets, use the methods that work
best.
While these two epsodes can be boring, they came up with interesting
results.
--
Jim
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346571 is a reply to message #346537] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 17:23 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 9 Jun 2017 09:23:07 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
>>>> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance).
>>>> However under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue
>>>> with human directing to the next available cashier.
>>>
>>> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend
>>> to have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till
>>> to show free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the
>>> till operator will just shout "Next Please".
>>
>>
>> They tell me that if someone goes into Dunnes (Local supermarket) with
>> large amounts of cash, they can cause a crises, most people use debit
>> cards.
>
> I don't see it - you'd be hard put to get a trolley full over a few
> hundred (OK maybe a thousand or so if you hit the booze section hard) and
> that's nothing to write home about in 50s. Proffer a 500 Euro note in there
> and I think you'll get an immediate refusal.
>
I've paid in 100 Euro notes in Lidl, they write on it with a special pen
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346578 is a reply to message #346557] |
Fri, 09 June 2017 18:37 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2017-06-09, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> The telephone company developed traffic engineering to a high art.
> Telephone switching and trunk equipment was very expensive, and
> they sought to find the optimum level. Too much would waste money,
> too little would yield poor service. The Bell System Technical
> Journal has lots of articles on that. Big users of Poisson. In
> the old days, they spent a lot of time monitoring service quality,
> such as waits for a dial tone, calls that failed, etc.
And that's the _real_ old days. The Danish mathematician A.K. Erlang
worked out this stuff 100 years ago, and got a unit of traffic volume
named after him. According to the Wikipedia article, one of the Bell
Labs researchers learned Danish in order to study his work. (I cribbed
some of it for our traffic analysis software.)
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346593 is a reply to message #346017] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 03:16 |
usenet
Messages: 556
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On Wed, 31 May 2017 10:41:09 +0100, "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 May 2017 18:25:15 +0100, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 5/30/2017 9:11 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
>>> I remember a system where management didn't trust ordinary employees to
>>> handle money. A department store with cables running from every clerks
>>> "station" to an office on the mezzanine. The payment and any change
>>> were exchanged via a container to and from the mezzanine. A bit like
>>> banking from your car, except without the pneumatic aspect. IIRC it was
>>> a J C Penny store. As a child it always fascinated me. Why did they
>>> do that? In today's language WTF?
>>
>> A lot of stores worked this way in the nineteenth century. There were
>> some
>> holdouts who kept on into the twentieth. Kind of neat. I assume they're
>> all
>> gone now. Probably cheaper than cash registers in the old days.
>
> Still available
> http://www.pneumatictubesystems.in/cash_pneumatic_tube_Syste ms.htm
In the early 1970s my local bank branch was using pneumatic tubes to expand
its drive-through lanes. Drivers in the lane closest to the building exchanged
items with a teller via a sliding drawer. Drivers in the second and third lanes
used stations (staggered for visibility from the bank window) that employed a
pneumatic tube to exchange deposits and/or withdrawls with a teller. These
stations were a little wider and a little lower than a typical washing machine
and included the speaker grille for communicating with the teller.
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346600 is a reply to message #346545] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 08:25 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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|
Michael Black wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Jun 2017, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2017-06-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:52:27 -0700
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> under medium load, they will let customers line up at casher of their
>>>> choice (assumption that customer will dynamically load balance). However
>>>> under peak/heavy loads ... I've seen them setup single queue with human
>>>> directing to the next available cashier.
>>>
>>> Shops with a lot of people buying small(ish) amounts here tend to
>>> have a single queue to a bank of tills with a light above each till to
show
>>> free tills - if the next person in the queue isn't alert the till operator
>>> will just shout "Next Please".
>>
>>
>> They tell me that if someone goes into Dunnes (Local supermarket) with
>> large amounts of cash, they can cause a crises, most people use debit
cards.
>>
> I only use cash, though I guess if I was buying something expensive I'd
> use my debit card. I did when I got a tv set in 2011.
>
> But it does come as a surprise, every so often I am served by a cashier
> who automatically does something towards the debit card reader, so it
> would seem that those cashiers expect people to use debit cards.
I've had experiences when the cashier couldn't make change. Apparently,
they only start out with $50 for change.
/BAH
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346602 is a reply to message #346539] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 08:25 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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Osmium wrote:
> On 6/8/2017 9:52 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
>>> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
>>> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to use
>>> that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
>>> department there).
>>>
>>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>>> route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>>> both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>> the institution as well as customer.
> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
> calculus is mandatory for science.
Disney did extensive studies and experiments. We were amazed by the
methods used to move lots of people through minimum space in the
least amount of time.
/BAH
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346603 is a reply to message #346541] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 08:25 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-6, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>
>> places like coffee shops with multiple clerks taking orders and single
>> queue ... "next please" sometimes is said several times, increasingly
>> louder.
>
> Which shows that queuing theory is all right for operating systems, but for
> physical queues of real people, practice involves complicated variables that
> cannot be reduced to simple theories.
Not with timesharing. Since there was usually a human at the other end,
human behaviour was injected into the decision making of the OS.
/BAH
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346605 is a reply to message #346602] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 08:53 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:25:10 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Osmium wrote:
>> On 6/8/2017 9:52 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
>>>> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
>>>> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to use
>>>> that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
>>>> department there).
>>>>
>>>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go
>>>> the route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store,
>>>> so both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>>> the institution as well as customer.
>> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
>> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
>> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
>> calculus is mandatory for science.
>
> Disney did extensive studies and experiments. We were amazed by the
> methods used to move lots of people through minimum space in the least
> amount of time.
The most impressive crowd handling I've seen was at the Edinburgh
Military Tattoo. I was part of the crowd one night, but observed the
crowd handling for several nights. A large civilian crowd with many
different origins, languages, ages etc. was inserted into the correct
seats in time for the event to start on time every night.
The military mind!
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346607 is a reply to message #346593] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 11:38 |
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Originally posted by: JimP.
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:16:31 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2017 10:41:09 +0100, "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 May 2017 18:25:15 +0100, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> On 5/30/2017 9:11 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>> I remember a system where management didn't trust ordinary employees to
>>>> handle money. A department store with cables running from every clerks
>>>> "station" to an office on the mezzanine. The payment and any change
>>>> were exchanged via a container to and from the mezzanine. A bit like
>>>> banking from your car, except without the pneumatic aspect. IIRC it was
>>>> a J C Penny store. As a child it always fascinated me. Why did they
>>>> do that? In today's language WTF?
>>>
>>> A lot of stores worked this way in the nineteenth century. There were
>>> some
>>> holdouts who kept on into the twentieth. Kind of neat. I assume they're
>>> all
>>> gone now. Probably cheaper than cash registers in the old days.
>>
>> Still available
>> http://www.pneumatictubesystems.in/cash_pneumatic_tube_Syste ms.htm
>
> In the early 1970s my local bank branch was using pneumatic tubes to expand
> its drive-through lanes. Drivers in the lane closest to the building exchanged
> items with a teller via a sliding drawer. Drivers in the second and third lanes
> used stations (staggered for visibility from the bank window) that employed a
> pneumatic tube to exchange deposits and/or withdrawls with a teller. These
> stations were a little wider and a little lower than a typical washing machine
> and included the speaker grille for communicating with the teller.
I still see that set up of pneumatic tubes today.
--
Jim
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346611 is a reply to message #346017] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 11:55 |
|
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 14:00:08 +0000, Huge wrote:
> On 2017-06-10, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:25:10 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Osmium wrote:
>>>> On 6/8/2017 9:52 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>>> > Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
>>>> >> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
>>>> >> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to
>>>> >> use that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
>>>> >> department there).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go
>>>> >> the route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery
>>>> >> store,
>>>> >> so both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> >> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> >> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for
>>>> >> customers.
>>>> > multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient
>>>> > for the institution as well as customer.
>>>> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>>>> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>>>> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they
>>>> should make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need
>>>> for such knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business,
>>>> much like calculus is mandatory for science.
>>>
>>> Disney did extensive studies and experiments. We were amazed by the
>>> methods used to move lots of people through minimum space in the least
>>> amount of time.
>>
>> The most impressive crowd handling I've seen was at the Edinburgh
>> Military Tattoo. I was part of the crowd one night, but observed the
>> crowd handling for several nights. A large civilian crowd with many
>> different origins, languages, ages etc. was inserted into the correct
>> seats in time for the event to start on time every night.
>>
>> The military mind!
>
> Ever been to Disney?
Yes. Still thought it was better!
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346613 is a reply to message #346568] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 12:18 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
JimP. <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 12:56:18 -0700 (PDT), hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:32:59 AM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> > But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>>>> > route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>>>> > both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> > centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> > employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>>>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>>>> the institution as well as customer.
>>
>>> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>>> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>>> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
>>> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
>>> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
>>> calculus is mandatory for science.
>>
>> Some observations...
>>
>> First, a corporate staff may well understand queuing theory, but
>> corporate _management_ may not be interested in spending the money
>> to implement the staff's recommendations. Or, management may be
>> content with a higher level of customer waiting time.
>>
>> Secondly, queuing theory is a statistical prediction, not hard science.
>> Random events can produce a sudden load of unexpected customers at
>> any time, overwhelming the business. For instance, one night after
>> a school event, for some reason everyone decided to go to the supermarket,
>> which is normally quiet at that time. The one checker on duty was
>> overwhelmed; the manager manned another register, but even that wasn't
>> enough.
>
> There is an interesting MythBusters episode where they try to find the
> best queueing method for boarding and airplane, and one for the best
> at a supermarket.
>
> Neither the airlines, nor supermarkets, use the methods that work
> best.
>
> While these two epsodes can be boring, they came up with interesting
> results.
It would make the most sense to have first class board last. Get the coach
people on and wresting their baggage at the rear of the plane without
having to trip over the first class people on tne way in. Then the first
class people would have a clear shot.
--
Pete
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346616 is a reply to message #346613] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 12:47 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:18:47 -0400
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It would make the most sense to have first class board last. Get the coach
> people on and wresting their baggage at the rear of the plane without
> having to trip over the first class people on tne way in. Then the first
> class people would have a clear shot.
When I was commuting around Europe by air I noticed that the last
people to board were usually the frequent flyers (ie. the people I saw
every Friday at the airport) who stay sat at the bar (or seat if there's no
bar available) until the last stragglers are just about to go through then
get up and walk through the serpentine to the boarding pass check and onto
the plane barely breaking step. I soon developed the habit, much less
tiring than shuffling with the queue.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346618 is a reply to message #346607] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 16:07 |
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Originally posted by: David Wade
On 10/06/2017 16:38, JimP. wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:16:31 GMT, usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 31 May 2017 10:41:09 +0100, "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 May 2017 18:25:15 +0100, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> > On 5/30/2017 9:11 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>> > I remember a system where management didn't trust ordinary employees to
>>>> > handle money. A department store with cables running from every clerks
>>>> > "station" to an office on the mezzanine. The payment and any change
>>>> > were exchanged via a container to and from the mezzanine. A bit like
>>>> > banking from your car, except without the pneumatic aspect. IIRC it was
>>>> > a J C Penny store. As a child it always fascinated me. Why did they
>>>> > do that? In today's language WTF?
>>>>
>>>> A lot of stores worked this way in the nineteenth century. There were
>>>> some
>>>> holdouts who kept on into the twentieth. Kind of neat. I assume they're
>>>> all
>>>> gone now. Probably cheaper than cash registers in the old days.
>>>
>>> Still available
>>> http://www.pneumatictubesystems.in/cash_pneumatic_tube_Syste ms.htm
>>
>> In the early 1970s my local bank branch was using pneumatic tubes to expand
>> its drive-through lanes. Drivers in the lane closest to the building exchanged
>> items with a teller via a sliding drawer. Drivers in the second and third lanes
>> used stations (staggered for visibility from the bank window) that employed a
>> pneumatic tube to exchange deposits and/or withdrawls with a teller. These
>> stations were a little wider and a little lower than a typical washing machine
>> and included the speaker grille for communicating with the teller.
>
> I still see that set up of pneumatic tubes today.
>
The still seem to be in use in many stores. when I worked in a big(ish)
insurance building in Manchester we had "The tubes" which were used for
urgent memos.
Dave
G4UGM
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346619 is a reply to message #346611] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 16:26 |
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Originally posted by: JimP.
On 10 Jun 2017 15:55:26 GMT, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 14:00:08 +0000, Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2017-06-10, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:25:10 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>> Osmium wrote:
>>>> > On 6/8/2017 9:52 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
>>>> >> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
>>>> >>> We get used to separate cashes in the various departments of a
>>>> >>> department store, it's easy to forget that one isn't obligated to
>>>> >>> use that cash (or prohibited from paying for something from another
>>>> >>> department there).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go
>>>> >>> the route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery
>>>> >>> store,
>>>> >>> so both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> >>> centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> >>> employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for
>>>> >>> customers.
>>>> >> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient
>>>> >> for the institution as well as customer.
>>>> > Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>>>> > almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>>>> > exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they
>>>> > should make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need
>>>> > for such knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business,
>>>> > much like calculus is mandatory for science.
>>>>
>>>> Disney did extensive studies and experiments. We were amazed by the
>>>> methods used to move lots of people through minimum space in the least
>>>> amount of time.
>>>
>>> The most impressive crowd handling I've seen was at the Edinburgh
>>> Military Tattoo. I was part of the crowd one night, but observed the
>>> crowd handling for several nights. A large civilian crowd with many
>>> different origins, languages, ages etc. was inserted into the correct
>>> seats in time for the event to start on time every night.
>>>
>>> The military mind!
>>
>> Ever been to Disney?
>
> Yes. Still thought it was better!
I saw the Edinburgh Military Tattoo on television some years ago.
While I haven't been to a Disney Park, I have been to a 6 Flags
location. I am not interested in roller coasters. I had enough of the
up and down thrill rides when I was in the US Navy and we were out at
sea during rough weather.
--
Jim
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346624 is a reply to message #346542] |
Sat, 10 June 2017 19:26 |
Anne & Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
> and some number of articles that make survey of ethical behavior and
> identify graduates like lawyers, economists, MBAs, investmnet bankers
> being especially ethically challenged ... effectively being taught that
> systems are something to be "gamed".
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.htm#92 pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer?
Want to Kill Your Economy? Have MBA Programs Churn Out Takers Not
Makers.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/06/want-to-kill-your-eco nomy-have-mba-programs-churn-out-takers-not-makers.html
The number of MBAs graduating from America's business schools
has skyrocketed since the 1980s. But over that time, the health of
American business has decreased by many metrics: corporate R&D spending,
new business creation, productivity, and the level of public trust in
business in general.
.... snip ...
economic mess posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#economic.mess
i've mentioned before that in briefings, Boyd would refer to former
military officers starting to contaminate US corporate culture with
their rigid, top-down command&control (and only those at the very top
know what they are doing). However, about the same time in the early
80s, there started to be articles about MBAs were starting to destroy US
businesses.
boyd posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html
somewhat related (predating the rise of MBAs)
http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Under-God-Corporate-ebook/d p/B00PWX7R56/
.... in the 40s, 5000 industrialist had annual meeting at NYC
Waldorf-Astoria ... and because they had gotten such a bad reputation
for the depression and supporting the NAZIs, they approved funding a
propoganda campaign equating capitalism and christianity.
recent posts:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#10 Separation church and state
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#63 One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#97 Trump to sign cyber security order
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017b.html#40 Job Loyalty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017c.html#91 Godwin's Law should force us to remember & fear our shared heritage with Nazi Germany
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017d.html#55 Should America Have Entered World War I?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017e.html#23 Ironic old "fortune"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017e.html#60 The Illusion Of Victory: America In World War I
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#41 [CM] What was your first home computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017f.html#55 [CM] What was your first home computer?
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| queueing theory was pneumatic systems [message #346636 is a reply to message #346565] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 04:04 |
Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 21:36:05 +0100, Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 6/9/2017 2:56 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 9:32:59 AM UTC-4, Osmium wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> > But stores like Walmart, and Target (and others here in Canada) go the
>>>> > route of a bank of cashes at the exit, just like a grocery store, so
>>>> > both ways work. Even Sears here in Canada has has moved to more
>>>> > centralized cash registers, which likely means they need fewer
>>>> > employees, or at least employees aren't waiting around for customers.
>>>> multiple servers handling single queue can be much more efficient for
>>>> the institution as well as customer.
>>> Just observing what goes on in the world, it is obvious to me that
>>> almost no one understands even the rudiments of queuing theory,
>>> exemplified by the above statement. I blame the colleges, they should
>>> make such a course mandatory for business majors. The need for such
>>> knowledge is rudimentary all over the place in business, much like
>>> calculus is mandatory for science.
>> Some observations...
>>
>> First, a corporate staff may well understand queuing theory, but
>> corporate _management_ may not be interested in spending the money
>> to implement the staff's recommendations. Or, management may be
>> content with a higher level of customer waiting time.
>
> If you have five tellers in a bank, it doesn't take a ton of money to
> put up a sign that says "Wait here for the next teller".
>
You'd be surprised/dismayed at some places; jdwetherspoon (a pub chain in the UK) has staff who (are trained to?) just ask "who's next?" and serve the loudest/quickest. Except in one branch; there were 2 orderly queues (no signs, it just seemed to have happened) one for coffee and food orders, the other for BEER.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
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| Re: pneumatic cash systems was Re: [CM] What was your first home computer? [message #346637 is a reply to message #346616] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 04:07 |
Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:47:36 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 12:18:47 -0400
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It would make the most sense to have first class board last. Get the coach
>> people on and wresting their baggage at the rear of the plane without
>> having to trip over the first class people on tne way in. Then the first
>> class people would have a clear shot.
>
> When I was commuting around Europe by air I noticed that the last
> people to board were usually the frequent flyers (ie. the people I saw
> every Friday at the airport) who stay sat at the bar (or seat if there's no
> bar available) until the last stragglers are just about to go through then
> get up and walk through the serpentine to the boarding pass check and onto
> the plane barely breaking step. I soon developed the habit, much less
> tiring than shuffling with the queue.
>
Same here with school lunches (back when 98% had them); either be first in the queue or wait 'til it was mostly gone (but then you risked not getting what you wanted).
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
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| Re: queueing theory was pneumatic systems [message #346638 is a reply to message #346636] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 04:22 |
Ken Wheatley
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:04:55 +0100, "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
wrote:
<<snipped>>
>>>
>>> First, a corporate staff may well understand queuing theory, but
>>> corporate _management_ may not be interested in spending the money
>>> to implement the staff's recommendations. Or, management may be
>>> content with a higher level of customer waiting time.
>>
>> If you have five tellers in a bank, it doesn't take a ton of money to
>> put up a sign that says "Wait here for the next teller".
>>
>
> You'd be surprised/dismayed at some places; jdwetherspoon (a pub chain in the UK) has staff who (are trained to?) just ask "who's next?" and serve the loudest/quickest. Except in one branch; there were 2 orderly queues (no signs, it just seemed to have happened) one for coffee and food orders, the other for BEER.
Kate Fox, in her fascinating book 'Watching the English', descibes how
it normally works in pubs. There's an 'invisible queue'. Everone
waiting to be served knows where they are, and so do well-trained bar
staff.
The Wetherspoons method of asking 'who's next' is fine; normally an
attempt to serve someone out of turn results in that person indicating
who should be the one being served.
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| dissipating cultural memes; was queuing theory [message #346639 is a reply to message #346638] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 04:28 |
Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:22:08 +0100, BirchangerKen <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:04:55 +0100, "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
> wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
[]
>>> If you have five tellers in a bank, it doesn't take a ton of money to
>>> put up a sign that says "Wait here for the next teller".
>>>
>>
>> You'd be surprised/dismayed at some places; jdwetherspoon (a pub chain in the UK) has staff who (are trained to?) just ask "who's next?" and serve the loudest/quickest. Except in one branch; there were 2 orderly queues (no signs, it just seemed to have happened) one for coffee and food orders, the other for BEER.
>
> Kate Fox, in her fascinating book 'Watching the English', descibes how
> it normally works in pubs. There's an 'invisible queue'. Everone
> waiting to be served knows where they are, and so do well-trained bar
> staff.
A proper pub maybe.
>
> The Wetherspoons method of asking 'who's next' is fine; normally an
> attempt to serve someone out of turn results in that person indicating
> who should be the one being served.
>
It's like cats; they used to get trained by their mothers to crap tidily, but it's just a ritual paw shuffle now; same with the "English" customs of yesteryear.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
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| Re: dissipating cultural memes; was queuing theory [message #346640 is a reply to message #346639] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 04:51 |
Andy Leighton
Messages: 203
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:28:20 +0100, Kerr Mudd-John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:22:08 +0100, BirchangerKen <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:04:55 +0100, "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <<snipped>>
> []
>>>> If you have five tellers in a bank, it doesn't take a ton of money to
>>>> put up a sign that says "Wait here for the next teller".
>>>>
>>>
>>> You'd be surprised/dismayed at some places; jdwetherspoon (a pub chain in the UK) has staff who (are trained to?) just ask "who's next?" and serve the loudest/quickest. Except in one branch; there were 2 orderly queues (no signs, it just seemed to have happened) one for coffee and food orders, the other for BEER.
>>
>> Kate Fox, in her fascinating book 'Watching the English', descibes how
>> it normally works in pubs. There's an 'invisible queue'. Everone
>> waiting to be served knows where they are, and so do well-trained bar
>> staff.
>
> A proper pub maybe.
>>
>> The Wetherspoons method of asking 'who's next' is fine; normally an
>> attempt to serve someone out of turn results in that person indicating
>> who should be the one being served.
>>
>
> It's like cats; they used to get trained by their mothers to crap tidily,
> but it's just a ritual paw shuffle now; same with the "English" customs of
> yesteryear.
Well certainly in a lot of pubs I go to that queuing behaviour and
indication of who's next still occurs. Maybe because they are mostly
proper pubs, mostly real-ale focused, and mostly outside the big
cities. It certainly isn't a custom of yesteryear.
--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
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