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Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16855] Sat, 22 September 2012 13:52 Go to next message
iainnitro is currently offline  iainnitro
Messages: 6
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Greetings All:

I am resurrecting a PM 8500/150 that I recently acquired. The end goal of
my current project is get files from my modern Mac (OSX Mountain Lion) to
my 8500 and also from there (via floppy most likely) to my Mac Plus.

I have files that I have downloaded from the Internet for my 8500 and Mac
Plus and I need to get the OSX box (Mountain Lion) to connect to the 8500
via network. I have thought about FTP because Fetch is available for OS
9.1 (which is what is currently on my 8500) and so is Zterm which we can
use to do a serial transfer from the Mac if necessary. IIRC, Stuffit
Expander should be on the 9.1 installation.... if not, I will need to find
that too (thinking aloud).

So the question to the group is, what is the best way to get Fetch and
Zterm over to the 8500 to allow more transfers later? Is there a better
way to handle the vintage files, for example, the way you can use a utility
called ADTPro to transfer files from a modern computer (Internet connected)
to an old Apple II series computer? Is there a utility similar for older
Macs (I personally have never heard of one at this time).

Thanks for any help/leads/experience doing this.

Cheers,

Mike Needham

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16856 is a reply to message #16855] Sat, 22 September 2012 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Daggett is currently offline  Ken Daggett
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Registered: August 2012
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Member

On 22 Sep 2012, at 10:52:28 PDT, Michael Needham wrote:

> Greetings All:

>

> I am resurrecting a PM 8500/150 that I recently acquired. The end

> goal of my current project is get files from my modern Mac (OSX

> Mountain Lion) to my 8500 and also from there (via floppy most

> likely) to my Mac Plus.

>

> I have files that I have downloaded from the Internet for my 8500

> and Mac Plus and I need to get the OSX box (Mountain Lion) to

> connect to the 8500 via network. I have thought about FTP because

> Fetch is available for OS 9.1 (which is what is currently on my

> 8500) and so is Zterm which we can use to do a serial transfer from

> the Mac if necessary. IIRC, Stuffit Expander should be on the 9.1

> installation.... if not, I will need to find that too (thinking

> aloud).

>

> So the question to the group is, what is the best way to get Fetch

> and Zterm over to the 8500 to allow more transfers later? Is

> there a better way to handle the vintage files, for example, the

> way you can use a utility called ADTPro to transfer files from a

> modern computer (Internet connected) to an old Apple II series

> computer? Is there a utility similar for older Macs (I personally

> have never heard of one at this time).

>

> Thanks for any help/leads/experience doing this.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mike Needham


--------------------------
If the two machines can be put on the same network, why not just use
file sharing and move the files that way?

Ken

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16857 is a reply to message #16856] Sat, 22 September 2012 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob Belyea is currently offline  Rob Belyea
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Registered: September 2012
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Junior Member
If no wired network, a CDrw on a sneaker net.

On 22 September 2012 16:32, Ken Daggett <kadaggett@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> On 22 Sep 2012, at 10:52:28 PDT, Michael Needham wrote:

>

> Greetings All:

>>

>> I am resurrecting a PM 8500/150 that I recently acquired. The end goal

>> of my current project is get files from my modern Mac (OSX Mountain Lion)

>> to my 8500 and also from there (via floppy most likely) to my Mac Plus.

>>

>> I have files that I have downloaded from the Internet for my 8500 and Mac

>> Plus and I need to get the OSX box (Mountain Lion) to connect to the 8500

>> via network. I have thought about FTP because Fetch is available for OS

>> 9.1 (which is what is currently on my 8500) and so is Zterm which we can

>> use to do a serial transfer from the Mac if necessary. IIRC, Stuffit

>> Expander should be on the 9.1 installation.... if not, I will need to find

>> that too (thinking aloud).

>>

>> So the question to the group is, what is the best way to get Fetch and

>> Zterm over to the 8500 to allow more transfers later? Is there a better

>> way to handle the vintage files, for example, the way you can use a utility

>> called ADTPro to transfer files from a modern computer (Internet connected)

>> to an old Apple II series computer? Is there a utility similar for older

>> Macs (I personally have never heard of one at this time).

>>

>> Thanks for any help/leads/experience doing this.

>>

>> Cheers,

>>

>> Mike Needham

>>

>

> --------------------------

> If the two machines can be put on the same network, why not just use file

> sharing and move the files that way?

>

> Ken

>

>

> --

> -----

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> group.

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>

> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/

>


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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16868 is a reply to message #16857] Sat, 22 September 2012 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TomMxEdit is currently offline  TomMxEdit
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Registered: September 2012
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Junior Member
Hi Rob,

I don't know if this would apply, but I bought a USB PCI card for
Power Mac on eBay and can now use an external USB drive with my Power
Mac 9600. Might something like that work on an 8500?

Tom Carlson

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16869 is a reply to message #16857] Sat, 22 September 2012 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boris Starosta is currently offline  Boris Starosta
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Junior Member
Hi I've been lurking a long time, but not till now has a subject come up
where maybe I can contribute something.

This is probably not perfectly relevant to the question posted (Michael,
you seem very knowledgeable already), but in my studio network, bridging
from intel OSX machines to OS 9 era requires a Tiger (OSX v.4.x - which I
have running on a G4 tower) intermediate machine. Furthermore, Tiger does
not seem to want to talk to my OS 7.x machines, so OS 9 functions as a
network bridge there.

This is what it looks like in my studio:
Quadra (OS7) <-> PM7500 (7.5.3) <-> Titanium (9.2.2) <-> G4 (10.4.11) <->
iMac core2 Duo (10.6.8).

This means to move files from OS 7 to OSX (10.4) requires storing them on
the intermediate OS 9 machine. Likewise to go from the OS 9 machine to the
intel CPU machine, requires intermediate storage OS 10.4 machine. While
this is a pain, it does automatically produce a lot of working backup files!

At home I use a PM8500 (8.0) <-> iMac G4 (10.4.11).

I learned another thing recently on a trip with my "new" iBook G4 running
Leopard (10.5.x). I had hoped that I could, but ultimately I was unable to
establish a network connection from the G4 iBook (OS 10.5.x) to the G4
Titanium (OS 9.2.2). I tried both over ethernet hardwire and over
wireless. Clearly the CPU hardware had nothing to do with helping
connectivity, just the OS.

As a workaround, Adobe Illustrator files that I produced on my Titanium
laptop in OS 9 transferred easily enough to the iBook via USB key, but
interestingly they could not be moved in the reverse direction (and be
usable). In fact, just sticking the USB key into the iBook did something
to the way the original (OS 9 created) files were stored, that rendered
them unusable again in OS 9. While the USB key was in the iBook, I don't
recall there being any kind of a "desktop rebuild" or anything like that,
nevertheless the files were changed. Judging from a "resource fork" folder
that appeared on the USB key, the newer OS stripped the resource fork off
the files??

It's a mystery to me. Alas, as a die hard user of Illustrator v.5.5 (the
most recent version that I consider usable/sensible), and with the internet
having become practically useless for non-intel chip operating systems, my
ability to produce work and still connect with clients (on the same
network) is becoming increasingly cumbersome!

Thanks,

Boris

PS the greatest irony is that my intel CPU iMac running Snow Leopard can
and does handily connect to a 12 year old PC running Windows XP. It's a
tad ironic and sad that Apple, which made the first home computers to be so
easily networked, has failed to support connectivity from its newer
machines to it's earlier models. I was setting up our first network
between a couple of Macs back in 1989! In those days a PC user had no such
facility (I don't think, but I'm glad to be proven wrong). Now the tables
have turned on us.


On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Rob Belyea <prolab@gmail.com> wrote:

> If no wired network, a CDrw on a sneaker net.

>

>

> On 22 September 2012 16:32, Ken Daggett <kadaggett@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>>

>> On 22 Sep 2012, at 10:52:28 PDT, Michael Needham wrote:

>>

>> Greetings All:

>>>

>>> I am resurrecting a PM 8500/150 that I recently acquired. The end goal

>>> of my current project is get files from my modern Mac (OSX Mountain Lion)

>>> to my 8500 and also from there (via floppy most likely) to my Mac Plus.

>>>

>>> I have files that I have downloaded from the Internet for my 8500 and

>>> Mac Plus and I need to get the OSX box (Mountain Lion) to connect to the

>>> 8500 via network. I have thought about FTP because Fetch is available for

>>> OS 9.1 (which is what is currently on my 8500) and so is Zterm which we can

>>> use to do a serial transfer from the Mac if necessary. IIRC, Stuffit

>>> Expander should be on the 9.1 installation.... if not, I will need to find

>>> that too (thinking aloud).

>>>

>>> So the question to the group is, what is the best way to get Fetch and

>>> Zterm over to the 8500 to allow more transfers later? Is there a better

>>> way to handle the vintage files, for example, the way you can use a utility

>>> called ADTPro to transfer files from a modern computer (Internet connected)

>>> to an old Apple II series computer? Is there a utility similar for older

>>> Macs (I personally have never heard of one at this time).

>>>

>>> Thanks for any help/leads/experience doing this.

>>>

>>> Cheers,

>>>

>>> Mike Needham

>>>

>>

>> --------------------------

>> If the two machines can be put on the same network, why not just use file

>> sharing and move the files that way?

>>

>> Ken

>>

>>

>> --

>> -----

>> You received this message because you are a member of the PCI Power Macs

>> group.

>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/**pci-powermacs.shtml<http://lowendmac.com/lists/pci-powermacs.shtml>and our netiquette guide is at

>> http://www.lowendmac.com/**lists/netiquette.shtml<http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml>

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>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**

>> group/pci-powermacs <http://groups.google.com/group/pci-powermacs>

>>

>> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/

>>

>

> --

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>




--

––––

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16870 is a reply to message #16868] Sat, 22 September 2012 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob Belyea is currently offline  Rob Belyea
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2012
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Junior Member
Hey Tom, That's the cat's meow!

On 22 September 2012 18:59, TomMxEdit <TomMxEdit@mac.com> wrote:

> Hi Rob,

>

> I don't know if this would apply, but I bought a USB PCI card for

> Power Mac on eBay and can now use an external USB drive with my Power

> Mac 9600. Might something like that work on an 8500?

>

> Tom Carlson

>

> --

> -----

> You received this message because you are a member of the PCI Power Macs

> group.

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> http://groups.google.com/group/pci-powermacs

>

> Support for older Macs: http://lowendmac.com/services/

>


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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16871 is a reply to message #16869] Sat, 22 September 2012 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
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Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member

On Sep 22, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Boris Starosta wrote:

>

> I learned another thing recently on a trip with my "new" iBook G4 running Leopard (10.5.x). I had hoped that I could, but ultimately I was unable to establish a network connection from the G4 iBook (OS 10.5.x) to the G4 Titanium (OS 9.2.2). I tried both over ethernet hardwire and over wireless. Clearly the CPU hardware had nothing to do with helping connectivity, just the OS.


Do it the other way 'round: connect from the TiBook (via Appletalk-over-ip, you'll need to enter the iBooks IP address) to the G4. This will work with either wired or wireless networking.

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai, PhD

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16872 is a reply to message #16871] Sat, 22 September 2012 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TomMxEdit is currently offline  TomMxEdit
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The USB card I bough is manufactured by Iogear. Also, there are some
old discussions about extensions that are needed to run USB cards in
older Macs. This one might be helpful:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1981913?start=0&tst art=0

Tom

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16883 is a reply to message #16855] Sat, 22 September 2012 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doug McNutt is currently offline  Doug McNutt
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Registered: September 2012
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Member
At 10:52 -0700 9/22/12, Michael Needham wrote:
> Greetings All:

>

> I am resurrecting a PM 8500/150 that I recently acquired. The end goal of my current project is get files from my modern Mac (OSX Mountain Lion) to my 8500 and also from there (via floppy most likely) to my Mac Plus.

>

> I have files that I have downloaded from the Internet for my 8500 and Mac Plus and I need to get the OSX box (Mountain Lion) to connect to the 8500 via network. I have thought about FTP because Fetch is available for OS 9.1 (which is what is currently on my 8500) and so is Zterm which we can use to do a serial transfer from the Mac if necessary. IIRC, Stuffit Expander should be on the 9.1 installation.... if not, I will need to find that too (thinking aloud).

>

> So the question to the group is, what is the best way to get Fetch and Zterm over to the 8500 to allow more transfers later? Is there a better way to handle the vintage files, for example, the way you can use a utility called ADTPro to transfer files from a modern computer (Internet connected) to an old Apple II series computer? Is there a utility similar for older Macs (I personally have never heard of one at this time).



This comes to from an 8500 running OS 9.1.

I talk regularly to my G4 running OS 10.3.9. That's the newest OS that will use Apple file sharing with Appletalk over Ethernet. Actually the 8500 can use AppleTalk over IP. It's my SE/30 file server that runs OS 7 that loses the ability to act as a file server with OS 10.4 . There is software available for OS 7 that allows AppleTalk over IP but it costs more than the SE/30 and you have to purchase copies for each Mac. Apple bought licenses to it for OS 9. and 8.5 or so. Open Door Software is a search term.

I talk regularly with my ubuntu Linux box using Interarchy 5 or so on the 8500 and on the SE/30.

Netpresenz by Stairways - the same guise that did Interarchy - runs fine on the SE/30 and the 8500. It can act as an FTP and/or HTTP server and it works well. It can even handle most resource forks.

Talking to the Lady's OS 10.current_as_hell and iOS everywhere can be a pain in the but. Most things using Apple's GUI are difficult. I do have accounts on her desktop boxes though. I set up a ~/.ssh directory and mucked with public keys in .ssh/known_hosts and .ssh/authorized_keys. Passing files with scp is now possible and I have even found software for the 8500 that will attempt it with ssh version 1. Newer Apple stuff likely requires version 2 for "security" reasons.

Finder's "Connect to Server" on newer OS 10's will allow one way FROM NetPresenz using FTP but they refuse to allow passing files from the OS 10 box, password and username just are not used. You can do scp though to any UNIX box.

And. . . Eudora 5 works fine on the 8500. The only problem is getting around the 75% garbage trail of simple messages that originate in AppleMail.
--

--> From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. <--

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #16884 is a reply to message #16883] Sat, 22 September 2012 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
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Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member

On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:26 PM, Doug McNutt wrote:

> Newer Apple stuff likely requires version 2 for "security" reasons.



Yes "security" reasons in that ssh 1 is broken badly and not safe to use on public networks. You can enable ssh1 by editing /etc/sshd_config, even in 10.7.

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai, PhD

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #17031 is a reply to message #16868] Mon, 24 September 2012 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Walther is currently offline  Jeff Walther
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Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member


On Saturday, September 22, 2012 4:59:43 PM UTC-5, TomMxEdit wrote:
>

> Hi Rob,

>

> I don't know if this would apply, but I bought a USB PCI card for

> Power Mac on eBay and can now use an external USB drive with my Power

> Mac 9600. Might something like that work on an 8500?

>

> Tom Carlson

>


The problem with the above scheme is that OS 9.x does not have USB 2.0
drivers and so you'd be limited to USB 1.x speeds of 12 megabit (BITS!) per
second. However, a firewire card and drive would be a viable solution.

Jeff Walther


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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #17059 is a reply to message #16871] Mon, 24 September 2012 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boris Starosta is currently offline  Boris Starosta
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Bruce, many thanks for this tip. I thought I'd tried all the different
ways to make the connection, but apparently not. Your suggestion worked
perfectly, connecting Leopard 10.5 to OS 9.2.2! THanks!
Boris


On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu
> wrote:


>

> On Sep 22, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Boris Starosta wrote:

>

>>

>> I learned another thing recently on a trip with my "new" iBook G4

> running Leopard (10.5.x). I had hoped that I could, but ultimately I was

> unable to establish a network connection from the G4 iBook (OS 10.5.x) to

> the G4 Titanium (OS 9.2.2). I tried both over ethernet hardwire and over

> wireless. Clearly the CPU hardware had nothing to do with helping

> connectivity, just the OS.

>

> Do it the other way 'round: connect from the TiBook (via

> Appletalk-over-ip, you'll need to enter the iBooks IP address) to the G4.

> This will work with either wired or wireless networking.

>

> --

> Bruce Johnson

>

> "Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai, PhD

>

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #34878 is a reply to message #16855] Tue, 29 January 2013 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael L. Squires is currently offline  Michael L. Squires
Messages: 2
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
I had to back up a Mac IIx under MacOS 7.01. (My wife uses the MacIIx
with a 20" RasterOps grey scale monitor and WordPerfect for some of her
documents.). I wound up creating a FreeBSD 4.10 client under VirtualBox
(FreeBSD 8.4 host, VirtualBox works on most platforms) and then compiling
netatalk 1.6.4 on the 4.10 client. I was surprised to find that all the
required source files were still available, most from Sourceforge.

The key is finding something that supports the older AppleTalk protocol,
which the older netatalk versions seem to do quite well.

I'm in the process of moving her files to a PowerMac 9600 and will use the
same server to host the transfer.

Mike Squires

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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #34911 is a reply to message #34878] Tue, 29 January 2013 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member

On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:51 AM, Michael L. Squires <mikes@siralan.org> wrote:

> I had to back up a Mac IIx under MacOS 7.01. (My wife uses the MacIIx with a 20" RasterOps grey scale monitor and WordPerfect for some of her documents.). I wound up creating a FreeBSD 4.10 client under VirtualBox (FreeBSD 8.4 host, VirtualBox works on most platforms) and then compiling netatalk 1.6.4 on the 4.10 client. I was surprised to find that all the required source files were still available, most from Sourceforge.

>

> The key is finding something that supports the older AppleTalk protocol, which the older netatalk versions seem to do quite well.

>

> I'm in the process of moving her files to a PowerMac 9600 and will use the same server to host the transfer.


There's a port file for netatalk at the MacPorts site, < https://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/net/netatalk/ Portfile> and it appears with the correct configuration you can get it to support classic Appletalk < http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/2.2/htmldocs/configuration.h tml>

"You'll need the AppleTalk support built into netatalk in case you want to provide printing services via PAP by papd(8) or file services via AppleTalk via afpd(8) for older AFP clients not capable of using AFP over TCP. You'll need it also, if you want to use the deprecated AppleTalk-based timeserver timelord(8) for older Mac clients."

Building a package for OS X to support this might be an interesting project …for someone else to undertake :-)


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #34933 is a reply to message #34878] Tue, 29 January 2013 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doug McNutt is currently offline  Doug McNutt
Messages: 38
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
Member
At 09:51 -0500 1/29/13, Michael L. Squires wrote:
> I had to back up a Mac IIx under MacOS 7.01. (My wife uses the MacIIx with a 20" RasterOps grey scale monitor and WordPerfect for some of her documents.). I wound up creating a FreeBSD 4.10 client under VirtualBox (FreeBSD 8.4 host, VirtualBox works on most platforms) and then compiling netatalk 1.6.4 on the 4.10 client. I was surprised to find that all the required source files were still available, most from Sourceforge.

>

> The key is finding something that supports the older AppleTalk protocol, which the older netatalk versions seem to do quite well.

>

> I'm in the process of moving her files to a PowerMac 9600 and will use the same server to host the transfer.


The good old ftp protocol handles modern Mac files (without resources and Finder info) better than it did with HFS+ files of OS 9 and below.

Interarchy has been available for years and there are versions that work well on older Macs. NeyPresenz on classic Macs makes it possible for them to act as a server.

OS X will do ftp, including uploads from the Mac but you have to enable it or install a UNIX tool yourself. Every time the wife gets a newer Mac I insist she do that and it can be a battle but it hasn't become impossible yet. All OS X machines will download with ftp. It's just that they don't want to upload without getting hit with a brick.
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Re: Transferring Files from modern Mac to PM8500 [message #34982 is a reply to message #34878] Tue, 29 January 2013 23:18 Go to previous message
Dark_Mac is currently offline  Dark_Mac
Messages: 13
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member

On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Michael L. Squires wrote:

> I had to back up a Mac IIx under MacOS 7.01. (My wife uses the

> MacIIx with a 20" RasterOps grey scale monitor and WordPerfect for

> some of her documents.). I wound up creating a FreeBSD 4.10 client

> under VirtualBox (FreeBSD 8.4 host, VirtualBox works on most

> platforms) and then compiling netatalk 1.6.4 on the 4.10 client. I

> was surprised to find that all the required source files were still

> available, most from Sourceforge.

>

> The key is finding something that supports the older AppleTalk

> protocol, which the older netatalk versions seem to do quite well.

>

> I'm in the process of moving her files to a PowerMac 9600 and will

> use the same server to host the transfer.

>

> Mike Squires

>


Hi Mike,

This sounds very interesting. would you be willing to write up this
process and configuration and post the compiled files somewhere for
other to find and use for similar use with older systems?

I would like to get all of this just incase I needed it sometime down
the road? I have seen this type of help request at least once a year
for the past few years.

Please share with the rest of us?

PS cool to hear a PM 9600 is still in use as well. My two are in
storage, do not have room to set them back up in the apartment.
Maybe once we get a house.

Regards,
Dark_Mac

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