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Re: New phone scams [message #339913 is a reply to message #339912] Tue, 21 March 2017 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 21 Mar 2017 11:06:33 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> Going from Dublin to Belfast, with the Peace process, the only sign that
> you are crossing an international border is the speed signs, in the UK,
> miles, in the (rest of the EU) kilometres. That will probbaly change with
> Brexit.

Just so long as it doesn't go back to having a soldier point a
rifle at you while another takes your details, that was not a pleasant
experience.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339914 is a reply to message #339895] Tue, 21 March 2017 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
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"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> In article <X6QzA.95275$Bp6.74482@fx36.iad>,
> scott@slp53.sl.home says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>> In article <oahq2f$7jj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> despen@verizon.net says...
>>
>>>> >>Self driving cars make electrics feasible and remove the need for
>>>> >>car ownership. The garage becomes an extra room.
>>>> >
>>>> > Electrics are already feasible.
>>>>
>>>> Except to take a long trip. With autonomous vehicles worrying about
>>>> range and charging time is a non-issue.
>>>
>>> So every few hours you're going to unload the
>>> car, pull off the roof rack, install it on
>>> another car, and put all the stuff back?
>>>
>>> You must not drive much.
>>
>> And you don't seem to think outside the box, much.
>
> Ok, tell me how to "think outside the box" in
> this context.

Well the absolute first thing that came to mind
was a small trailer.
Re: New phone scams [message #339915 is a reply to message #339838] Tue, 21 March 2017 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
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Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <PM00054B2951C4720A@aca40b16.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Morten Reistad wrote:
>>> In article <PM00054B160356FCC0@aca424c9.ipt.aol.com>,
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> > Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> >> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>
>>
>> I understand that solar panels have extremem limits. Howevevr, I'm still
>> of the opinion that every little bit helps. Enough little bits become
>> viable. The panel on a car could take care of other stuff while
>> the battery usage if focused on getting a vehicle from here to there.
>
> So far the combined wind, solar, wave and current based electricity
> production haven't even reached the increase in world electric consumption.
>
> China and a lot of developing countries are catching up fast to
> our standards of living, If we assume they are going to have efficiency
> levels like the best parts of Europe in terms of electricity consumption
> per capita, and will reach the levelling off phase when they are at
> ~$20k/capita/year in GDP (which the US and Europe did) then we will
> be at beyond 2200 before we have CO2 emissions lower than what
> we have today, and the peak will be sometime like 2080. This is
> assuming we only use wind,solar(PV),wave,small hydro and current
> genereation.
>
> We need something which can deploy a lot faster than this.

IMO, none of the methods mentioned in this thread w.r.t. electric
cars are good solutions. I keep shuddering every time someone
mentions using hdrogen. Gasoline is still the best energy
source.
>
>> I have battery problems because I don't drive my car very much so
>> it rarely gets recharged 100% while I drive. All the electronic
>> bells and whistles in the car drains the battery too much.
>> I'd like to be able to buy a car which is as simple as
>> the 1950s designs.
>
> Oh, THIS is an application for a fraction-of-a-meter-squared
> solar panel. I had the same problem with my car, and two of
> the 20x40cm panels in the rear window solved it. I now
> have near fully charged car batteries at all times.

Yes. Although I'd have to remember to move the car outside
during the day.

>
> The amounts of energy is many orders of magnitude lower than
> the case with the multi football field sized panels.
>
> A normal car battery is ~60-80Ah, or 700-1000 watthours.
> They normally discharge if left alone for around a month, which
> is ~730 hours. 1 watt is enough to keep it charged. If we assume
> 1/8th usable solar time, and 90 watts per square meter;
> pretty conservative estimates; then 1/11th of a m2 is needed.
>
> 22x42 cm panels generate this much power.

I notice I have slight battery problems if I've not used the
car for more than 4 days. I'd dearly like to disconnect the
damned security system which eats up juice as part of its
functionality.

I suppose the black boxes will be using more energy when
they broadcast "here I am" constantly.

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339916 is a reply to message #339880] Tue, 21 March 2017 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:44:04 -0700
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:30:53 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> The app is for when there's no sign.
>>
>> And how would you use it on the freeway?
>
> I'd probably pull onto the hard shoulder or a lay-by and set it
> going, from there it's just like a GPS with turn by turn voice guidance. If
> I had a passenger I'd get them to set it going without stopping.
>
>> I needed to find a gas station in Seattle and got directions from
>> someone before I left my hotel. It was not obvious. Had I been on
>> the freeway when I realised I needed gas, I would have had to exit
>> first. That might have been at an exit where there was no station.
>> Rinse, lather, and repeat?
>
> Are there no hard shoulders on US freeways ?

It's dangerous to pull over on a freeway. Depending on the state,
there can be very few or no lay-bys or rest stops.

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339917 is a reply to message #339893] Tue, 21 March 2017 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Registered: March 2012
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J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <0so4qd-jqf.ln1
> @sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
> says...
>>
>> In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
>>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into
in
>>>> > > less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> > > burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400
miles
>>>> > > of driving
>>>> > > - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>> >
>>>> > One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>>> > quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> > batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> > for the next customer.
>>>>
>>>> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>>> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to
fill
>>>> from.
>>>>
>>>> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>>> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of
hundred
>>>> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to
Wikipedia)
>>>> or more.
>>>>
>>>> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>>> change ...
>>>>
>>>> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>>>> cost of the replacements ?
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>>> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered
generators.
>>>> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>>
>>> Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
>>> pump and you're good to go.
>>
>> Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).
>
> I love seeing anti-hydrogen people foam at the
> mouth.
>
> Your only valid argument is that it's
> inefficient. But why does it have to be
> efficient?

It's too fucking dangerous!!!!!


<snip>

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339918 is a reply to message #339909] Tue, 21 March 2017 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
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mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2017-03-20, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Morten Reistad wrote:
>>> In article <PM00054B160356FCC0@aca424c9.ipt.aol.com>,
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> > Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> >> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>> panels you can do 30-35 such charges a day. This is significantly bigger
>> than
>>> a football field, packed densely with solar panels.
>>
>> I understand that solar panels have extremem limits. Howevevr, I'm still
>> of the opinion that every little bit helps. Enough little bits become
>> viable. The panel on a car could take care of other stuff while
>> the battery usage if focused on getting a vehicle from here to there.
>>
>> I have battery problems because I don't drive my car very much so
>> it rarely gets recharged 100% while I drive. All the electronic
>> bells and whistles in the car drains the battery too much.
>> I'd like to be able to buy a car which is as simple as
>> the 1950s designs.
>>
>> /BAH
>
> You _can_ install a second battery, etc, in the car (unless its tiny), there
> are instructions on the web.

What I decided to do is replace the battery every 3rd year. For $100
I don't have to worry about a dead battery or one with not enough
power to start the car.

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339919 is a reply to message #339835] Tue, 21 March 2017 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
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Senior Member
Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4@eircom.net>,
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>>> of driving
>>>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>
>>> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>> for the next customer.
>>
>> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
>> from.
>>
>> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
>> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
>> or more.
>>
>> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>> change ...
>
> And have the quality assurance needed for (almost) kiloampere 400V DC
> lines (can you say "welding supply"). This is way beyond what even a strong
> welding supply would deliver (OK, they are at ~600 volts initially, but
> dealing with something that readily delivers several kiloamps is not
> something to be taken lightly.)
>
>> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>> cost of the replacements ?
>
> Also the care for batteries. How many deep discharges does it have (below
5-8%),
> as that limits battery life.[1]
>
>> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
>> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>
> If we are to fully convert to electric for all cars and small vans
> we will still only increase the electric load by ~9-~20% (it differs
> from countries like Norway and Sweden which wallow in cheap electricity
> to marginal countries like th UK and Mexico where use per capita is
> a lot lower).
>
> -- mrr
>
> [1] Nissan ran a survey last year about how the first year Leaf
> batteries were holding up. They more or less questioned everyone that
> had purchased the Leaf during the first year, and har a > 60% response
> rate. Only 3 cars had less than 85% capacity left, and those owners were
> very happy with the total abuse they had put their cars through, with
> LOTS of deep discharges, etc. So if you deep-discharge your car less than
> once a week you should be fine; at least with ~2012 batteries.
>
> Our Leaf is 2 years old next month, and has over 50 k km on it, and
> it shows no perceptible difference on the distance it can travel. It is
> still 164 km in very-frugal-mode, and around 134 in non-economical
> not-very-cold (i.e. >= -3C) mode.

How does it handle in snow, slush and ice? Is it heavy enough?

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339932 is a reply to message #339893] Tue, 21 March 2017 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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In article <MPG.333a41fa13bdeddd98aae0@news.eternal-september.org>,
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <0so4qd-jqf.ln1
> @sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
> says...
>>
>> In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
>>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>>> > > less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> > > burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>>> > > of driving
>>>> > > - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>> >
>>>> > One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>>> > quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> > batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> > for the next customer.
>>>>
>>>> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>>> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
>>>> from.
>>>>
>>>> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>>> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
>>>> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
>>>> or more.
>>>>
>>>> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>>> change ...
>>>>
>>>> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>>>> cost of the replacements ?
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>>> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
>>>> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>>
>>> Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
>>> pump and you're good to go.
>>
>> Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).
>
> I love seeing anti-hydrogen people foam at the
> mouth.
>
> Your only valid argument is that it's
> inefficient. But why does it have to be
> efficient?
>
>> If you want some storable fuel that can be rapidly filled, and can be
>> 100% green (hydrogen is not necessarily green) then Ethanol wins in every
>> respect.
>
> Talk about frauds.
>
> Where do you get the damnede ethanol? I hear a
> lot of BULLSHIT about growing stuff where
> nothing else will grow but the fact is that the
> main effect of ethanol to date has been to raise
> food prices.
>
> I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned motor
> fuels from agricultural sources should be banned
> outright.

If you want the ethanol as an energy source you would have to
use food, or fodder. Plus some electricity/fossil fuels for
processing. I agree on that.

But if you unthink the energy source thing (as you must with
hydrogen) and think energy carrier, then you can use wood, and
most importantly the cuttings from timber use. But the energy
will have to come from another source. Like nuclear. The timber
industry does not generate anywhere near the amounts neeeded
for ethanol to the entire feet. So we would have to depend on
some form of chargable hybrid when the oil runs out.

But this is not the point in the ethanol/hydrogen comparison.
You can chemically synthesize hydrogen from natural gas or
reasonably light fuels. And you can electrolyse water.

But these processes generate ethanol just as cheaply, they
just require some other steps in the synthesis process.

My main objection is the distribution and combustion chain.
With hydrogen we will have to do that all over again. And
there are some quite significant security issues with hydrogen.

If you look at the steps one by one, hydrogen comes out
behind in every single aspect of the chain. Except the
energy generated per cylinder volume and the compression
ratio.

The market seems to agree with me. The sales of electrical
cars here are ~15k/year, hybrids ~30k, and hydrogen 3.
Not K. Three. They have separate registration series,
and the electric ones now have ~270000 plates available,
with around 140000 used. The hydrogen ones are at their
17th vehicle from 2010.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339933 is a reply to message #339894] Tue, 21 March 2017 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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Senior Member
In article <MPG.333a42fd8362eda998aae1@news.eternal-september.org>,
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnocvfo6.3es.mausg@smaus.org>,
> mausg@mail.com says...
>>
>> On 2017-03-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 20 Mar 2017 09:42:20 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading the business pages, Tesla may be a thing of the past.
>>>
>>> Really ? What have I missed, AFAICS things seem to be going fairly
>>> well for them despite the model X debacle, although judging by some reports
>>> they may soon be selling more battery packs for utility energy storage than
>>> they put into cars.
>>>
>>
>> Rights issue, I think. All should be revealed over the next while. I may
>> be de-optimised because an energy company I was watching is also punting
>> new stock. Cutting edge is a dangerous place.
>
> What "rights issue"? Rights to what?

Stock.

Teslas success path is through scale. They must grow, a lot, to warrent
their pricing. So far they have performed very well. They are becoming
truly disruptive.

It is all about the batteries and the software. With good, light, high
capacity batteries they can truly change the world. Suddenly wind and
solar power (also the thermal solar) become a real alternative to
baseload power.

They have to build one of those homongous battery factories every two-three
years to succeed in scaling the car sales up by ~60% a year for the
forseeable future.

They have ~20k preorders for their new models. Unseen. That is radically
much better than any car manufacturer ever.

But they have a logistics nightmare ahead.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339934 is a reply to message #339919] Tue, 21 March 2017 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Morten Reistad <first

In article <PM00054B3DDB7F7FAC@aca40269.ipt.aol.com>,
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Morten Reistad wrote:
>> In article <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4@eircom.net>,
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>>> > less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> > burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>>> > of driving
>>>> > - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>>
>>>> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>>> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> for the next customer.
>>>
>>> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
>>> from.
>>>
>>> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
>>> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
>>> or more.
>>>
>>> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>> change ...
>>
>> And have the quality assurance needed for (almost) kiloampere 400V DC
>> lines (can you say "welding supply"). This is way beyond what even a strong
>> welding supply would deliver (OK, they are at ~600 volts initially, but
>> dealing with something that readily delivers several kiloamps is not
>> something to be taken lightly.)
>>
>>> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>>> cost of the replacements ?
>>
>> Also the care for batteries. How many deep discharges does it have (below
> 5-8%),
>> as that limits battery life.[1]
>>
>>> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
>>> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>
>> If we are to fully convert to electric for all cars and small vans
>> we will still only increase the electric load by ~9-~20% (it differs
>> from countries like Norway and Sweden which wallow in cheap electricity
>> to marginal countries like th UK and Mexico where use per capita is
>> a lot lower).
>>
>> -- mrr
>>
>> [1] Nissan ran a survey last year about how the first year Leaf
>> batteries were holding up. They more or less questioned everyone that
>> had purchased the Leaf during the first year, and har a > 60% response
>> rate. Only 3 cars had less than 85% capacity left, and those owners were
>> very happy with the total abuse they had put their cars through, with
>> LOTS of deep discharges, etc. So if you deep-discharge your car less than
>> once a week you should be fine; at least with ~2012 batteries.
>>
>> Our Leaf is 2 years old next month, and has over 50 k km on it, and
>> it shows no perceptible difference on the distance it can travel. It is
>> still 164 km in very-frugal-mode, and around 134 in non-economical
>> not-very-cold (i.e. >= -3C) mode.
>
> How does it handle in snow, slush and ice? Is it heavy enough?

Pretty well.

Yes, the batteries give it a lot of weight, and a lot center of
gravity.

It handles well in slush ans snow, but as with all other non-studded tires
it gets a bit slippery on pure ice.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339939 is a reply to message #339850] Tue, 21 March 2017 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-19, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The last non-motorcycle trip I took of any
>>> length I departed Hartford around 7 PM and
>>> arrived in Jacksonville the next afternoon. 45
>>> minute charging stops every 400km would have
>>> added about 3 hours to the trip, plus time to go
>>> from the highway to wherever the charger is,
>>> plus time to get back to the highway from
>>> wherever the charger is.
>>
>> That last point is important. When I started doing
>> long-distance trips, I quickly learned to not even try
>> to find any gas station you can't see from the freeway.
>>
> I can think of lots of gas stations that are no longer. But they never
> seem to bring in new gas stations, making me wonder where people get their
> gas as the old stations disappear.
>
> Maybe they are just hidden, but it seems more likely that drivers are
> expected to go more out of their way to get gas, and then wait longer
> because the place has more customers.

Self-service and credit card payments have sped this up. In the old days a
station would have only a few pumps because the attendant needed to be able
to handle them all. Now there are lots of pumps. Also stations are no
longer individually owned, but franchise operations.

Also, cars get a lot better milage and so can go farther between stops.

In may places there used to one gas station at each of four corners of an
intersection, and a lot of these are now gone. Additionally all gas
stations used to be "service stations", but now gas and service are often
two separate businesses.

--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339940 is a reply to message #339872] Tue, 21 March 2017 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:30:53 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> The app is for when there's no sign.
>
> And how would you use it on the freeway?
>
> I needed to find a gas station in Seattle and got directions from
> someone before I left my hotel. It was not obvious. Had I been on
> the freeway when I realised I needed gas, I would have had to exit
> first. That might have been at an exit where there was no station.
> Rinse, lather, and repeat?
>

Except in urban areas the signs tell you what (if any) gas stations are
located at the next exit. Once you get off the arrows will indicate
direction. Also, most gas stations these days have very tall signs.

--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339941 is a reply to message #339910] Tue, 21 March 2017 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sidd is currently offline  sidd
Messages: 239
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <slrnod21h9.1re.mausg@smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
> I asked one man how much oilseed (Canola to USAians) would you need to
> need to grow, for fuel, on a tillage farm, in a real emergency, such
> as if the US attacked Iran. He came back with 15%, (not counting the
> energy needed to make the farm machines). That would keep things
> going for a few years, but a lot of people would end up eating
> the seed residues.
>

From personal experience, to run everything off veg oil
(including electricity generation) the number seems to be
between 15 to 30 % depending on oil yeild (say, soy vs canola)

the meal goes into livestock, which you then eat

sidd
Re: New phone scams [message #339943 is a reply to message #339881] Tue, 21 March 2017 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 20 Mar 2017 20:32:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2017-03-20, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> On 20 Mar 2017 18:54:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> We've received notice here in Vancouver that there will soon be no more
>>> gas stations downtown. The land value has gotten too high not to sell it
>>> off to the developers. You'll have to drive to the suburbs for gas soon.
>>
>> Nah, just non-downtown Vancouver.
>
> Well nit-picked, sir. BTW what exactly is the definition of "suburb",
> anyway? Is there such a thing as suburban Vancouver? Will we be able
> to get gas in Marpole, or will we have to go to Burnaby or New Westminster?
> (And for how long?)

I am not sure what exactly the definition of "suburban Vancouver"
would be. I expect it would include parts of southeast Vancouver.

Well, I have seen that trend in downtown for about thirty years.
I can see it finally coming true in downtown Vancouver. I can also
see it coming true in more parts of Vancouver, but given how slow it
has been in coming in the downtown area, I expect it to be even slower
in less dense areas of Vancouver.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: New phone scams [message #339944 is a reply to message #339940] Tue, 21 March 2017 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:21:28 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:30:53 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> The app is for when there's no sign.
>>
>> And how would you use it on the freeway?
>>
>> I needed to find a gas station in Seattle and got directions from
>> someone before I left my hotel. It was not obvious. Had I been on
>> the freeway when I realised I needed gas, I would have had to exit
>> first. That might have been at an exit where there was no station.
>> Rinse, lather, and repeat?

> Except in urban areas the signs tell you what (if any) gas stations are
> located at the next exit. Once you get off the arrows will indicate
> direction. Also, most gas stations these days have very tall signs.

I did not see any.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: New phone scams [message #339954 is a reply to message #339898] Tue, 21 March 2017 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <1ba88fcu18.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>,
pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Talk about frauds.
>>
>> Where do you get the damnede ethanol? I hear a
>> lot of BULLSHIT about growing stuff where
>> nothing else will grow but the fact is that the
>> main effect of ethanol to date has been to raise
>> food prices.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned motor
>> fuels from agricultural sources should be banned
>> outright.
>
> Ethanol from corn is a fraud, you're right. But some of the other
> potential sources, like algae, look promising.

That's nice, but what does it have to do with
reality?
Re: New phone scams [message #339955 is a reply to message #339907] Tue, 21 March 2017 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article
<20170321063002.baa07de61b75980edae0315f@eircom.
net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:46:35 -0400
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Your only valid argument is that it's
>> inefficient.
>
> Storage is a problem too, either very bulky or very heavy.

Tell it to Honda.

>> But why does it have to be efficient?
>
> To cut down on the number of power stations needed.

Why do we care about the number of power
stations needed?
Re: New phone scams [message #339956 is a reply to message #339932] Tue, 21 March 2017 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <nha7qd-48a.ln1
@sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
says...
>
> In article <MPG.333a41fa13bdeddd98aae0@news.eternal-september.org>,
> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <0so4qd-jqf.ln1
>> @sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
>>>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>> >
>>>> > On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>>> > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>>> > > > less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> > > > burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>>> > > > of driving
>>>> > > > - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>>> > > quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> > > batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> > > for the next customer.
>>>> >
>>>> > Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>>> > noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
>>>> > from.
>>>> >
>>>> > Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>>> > requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
>>>> > kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
>>>> > or more.
>>>> >
>>>> > Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>>> > change ...
>>>> >
>>>> > Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>>>> > cost of the replacements ?
>>>> >
>>>> > Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>>> > temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
>>>> > They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>>>
>>>> Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
>>>> pump and you're good to go.
>>>
>>> Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).
>>
>> I love seeing anti-hydrogen people foam at the
>> mouth.
>>
>> Your only valid argument is that it's
>> inefficient. But why does it have to be
>> efficient?
>>
>>> If you want some storable fuel that can be rapidly filled, and can be
>>> 100% green (hydrogen is not necessarily green) then Ethanol wins in every
>>> respect.
>>
>> Talk about frauds.
>>
>> Where do you get the damnede ethanol? I hear a
>> lot of BULLSHIT about growing stuff where
>> nothing else will grow but the fact is that the
>> main effect of ethanol to date has been to raise
>> food prices.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned motor
>> fuels from agricultural sources should be banned
>> outright.
>
> If you want the ethanol as an energy source you would have to
> use food, or fodder. Plus some electricity/fossil fuels for
> processing. I agree on that.
>
> But if you unthink the energy source thing (as you must with
> hydrogen) and think energy carrier, then you can use wood, and
> most importantly the cuttings from timber use. But the energy
> will have to come from another source. Like nuclear. The timber
> industry does not generate anywhere near the amounts neeeded
> for ethanol to the entire feet. So we would have to depend on
> some form of chargable hybrid when the oil runs out.

Pie in the sky. When all the ethanol in use as
a motor fuel comes from such sources get back to
me.

> But this is not the point in the ethanol/hydrogen comparison.
> You can chemically synthesize hydrogen from natural gas or
> reasonably light fuels. And you can electrolyse water.
>
> But these processes generate ethanol just as cheaply, they
> just require some other steps in the synthesis process.

So? Where can I buy a reliable ethanol fuel
cell?

> My main objection is the distribution and combustion chain.
> With hydrogen we will have to do that all over again. And
> there are some quite significant security issues with hydrogen.

What are the "significant security issues"?

> If you look at the steps one by one, hydrogen comes out
> behind in every single aspect of the chain. Except the
> energy generated per cylinder volume and the compression
> ratio.

Who gives a crap about cylinders? Hydrogen cars
don't need no steenking _cylinders+.

> The market seems to agree with me. The sales of electrical
> cars here are ~15k/year, hybrids ~30k, and
> hydrogen 3.
> Not K. Three. They have separate registration series,
> and the electric ones now have ~270000 plates available,
> with around 140000 used. The hydrogen ones are at their
> 17th vehicle from 2010.

So how many hydrogen cars were actually offered
for sale? That's like saying "there's no market
for starships because none was sold here last
year".
>
> -- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339957 is a reply to message #339908] Tue, 21 March 2017 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <slrnod20if.1re.mausg@smaus.org>,
mausg@mail.com says...
>
> On 2017-03-21, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <slrnocvfo6.3es.mausg@smaus.org>,
>> mausg@mail.com says...
>>>
>>> On 2017-03-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On 20 Mar 2017 09:42:20 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Reading the business pages, Tesla may be a thing of the past.
>>>>
>>>> Really ? What have I missed, AFAICS things seem to be going fairly
>>>> well for them despite the model X debacle, although judging by some reports
>>>> they may soon be selling more battery packs for utility energy storage than
>>>> they put into cars.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Rights issue, I think. All should be revealed over the next while. I may
>>> be de-optimised because an energy company I was watching is also punting
>>> new stock. Cutting edge is a dangerous place.
>>
>> What "rights issue"? Rights to what?
>
> Sorry, issuing new stock. going back to check, the paper had gone
> to rubbish. As I wrote, time will tell, what is it called?,
> "Bleeding edge"

Tesla hasn't issued any new stock. What the
press is on about is that (a) the press doesn't
think that the Model 3 could possibly be ready
for production and (b) the press doesn't think
Tesla borrowed enough to get it to production.
Re: New phone scams [message #339958 is a reply to message #339914] Tue, 21 March 2017 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <ls9AA.17527$Fv2.2652@fx02.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> In article <X6QzA.95275$Bp6.74482@fx36.iad>,
>> scott@slp53.sl.home says...
>>>
>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> In article <oahq2f$7jj$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> despen@verizon.net says...
>>>
>>>> > >>Self driving cars make electrics feasible and remove the need for
>>>> > >>car ownership. The garage becomes an extra room.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Electrics are already feasible.
>>>> >
>>>> > Except to take a long trip. With autonomous vehicles worrying about
>>>> > range and charging time is a non-issue.
>>>>
>>>> So every few hours you're going to unload the
>>>> car, pull off the roof rack, install it on
>>>> another car, and put all the stuff back?
>>>>
>>>> You must not drive much.
>>>
>>> And you don't seem to think outside the box, much.
>>
>> Ok, tell me how to "think outside the box" in
>> this context.
>
> Well the absolute first thing that came to mind
> was a small trailer.

So now I've got to find electric rent-a-cars
with trailer hitches every couple of hours. And
drive with a trailer. And a trailer that will
hold a canoe isn't small.
Re: New phone scams [message #339959 is a reply to message #339917] Tue, 21 March 2017 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article
<PM00054B3DCF79B5FA@aca40269.ipt.aol.com>,
See.above@aol.com says...
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article <0so4qd-jqf.ln1
>> @sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
>>>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>> >
>>>> > On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>>> > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into
> in
>>>> > > > less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> > > > burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400
> miles
>>>> > > > of driving
>>>> > > > - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>>> > > quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> > > batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> > > for the next customer.
>>>> >
>>>> > Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>>> > noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to
> fill
>>>> > from.
>>>> >
>>>> > Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>>> > requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of
> hundred
>>>> > kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to
> Wikipedia)
>>>> > or more.
>>>> >
>>>> > Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>>> > change ...
>>>> >
>>>> > Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>>>> > cost of the replacements ?
>>>> >
>>>> > Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>>> > temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered
> generators.
>>>> > They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>>>
>>>> Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
>>>> pump and you're good to go.
>>>
>>> Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).
>>
>> I love seeing anti-hydrogen people foam at the
>> mouth.
>>
>> Your only valid argument is that it's
>> inefficient. But why does it have to be
>> efficient?
>
> It's too fucking dangerous!!!!!

I keep hearing this. There are numerous
hydrogen fueled vehicles on the road. When has
one killed anybody due to any aspect of hydrogen
technology?
Re: New phone scams [message #339960 is a reply to message #339944] Tue, 21 March 2017 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2017-03-21, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:21:28 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:30:53 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> The app is for when there's no sign.
>>>
>>> And how would you use it on the freeway?
>>>
>>> I needed to find a gas station in Seattle and got directions from
>>> someone before I left my hotel. It was not obvious. Had I been on
>>> the freeway when I realised I needed gas, I would have had to exit
>>> first. That might have been at an exit where there was no station.
>>> Rinse, lather, and repeat?
>>
>> Except in urban areas the signs tell you what (if any) gas stations are
>> located at the next exit. Once you get off the arrows will indicate
>> direction. Also, most gas stations these days have very tall signs.
>
> I did not see any.

Urban areas (e.g. Seattle) can be pretty bewildering. I prefer to fill
up before I get there, out in the sticks where gas stations stand out.
As Peter pointed out, some of them put their signs on very tall poles
(50 feet or more). Here in Canada we're a bit more modest, but the
same rule applies: fill up before you get downtown.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: New phone scams [message #339963 is a reply to message #339663] Tue, 21 March 2017 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: timcaffrey420

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 4:15:27 PM UTC-4, Morten Reistad wrote:

> 1 mile by electric, US : 11c x 1.7 ~= 19c/mile
> 1 mile by otto/diesel US : us 0.58/litre, 0.6 l/mile ~= 35c/mile
> 1.84 , non-el car would need to do 0.34l/mile to match
>

Something in the math is wrong here. I get about ~24 MPG with my SUV,
at $2.40 a gallon that comes out to $.10 per mile.
A Corolla will easily get 35 MPG if driven with some restraint.

- Tim
Re: New phone scams [message #339964 is a reply to message #339963] Tue, 21 March 2017 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: timcaffrey420

On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 8:30:59 PM UTC-4, timcaf...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 4:15:27 PM UTC-4, Morten Reistad wrote:
>
>> 1 mile by electric, US : 11c x 1.7 ~= 19c/mile
>> 1 mile by otto/diesel US : us 0.58/litre, 0.6 l/mile ~= 35c/mile
>> 1.84 , non-el car would need to do 0.34l/mile to match
>>
>
> Something in the math is wrong here. I get about ~24 MPG with my SUV,
> at $2.40 a gallon that comes out to $.10 per mile.
> A Corolla will easily get 35 MPG if driven with some restraint.
>
> - Tim

Ok, just read your previous post about using a 10Km as a "mile".
That would make the SUV at $.62 per "mile" and the Corolla at $.41.

- Tim
Re: New phone scams [message #339971 is a reply to message #339960] Tue, 21 March 2017 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 22 Mar 2017 00:06:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2017-03-21, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:

[snip]

>> I did not see any.
>
> Urban areas (e.g. Seattle) can be pretty bewildering. I prefer to fill

Quite. It might have been there, and I missed it. I could not
afford to miss it. I was incautious.

> up before I get there, out in the sticks where gas stations stand out.

I was attending a gaming convention and wanted to get there
quickly. During it, I did not want to take time to fill up. That
left just after.

> As Peter pointed out, some of them put their signs on very tall poles
> (50 feet or more). Here in Canada we're a bit more modest, but the
> same rule applies: fill up before you get downtown.

I was in Bellevue which is not downtown Seattle, but how can you
really tell? I refer to the area as the Metro Seattle Glob (or Blob).

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: New phone scams [message #339972 is a reply to message #339954] Tue, 21 March 2017 23:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Pfeiffer is currently offline  Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> In article <1ba88fcu18.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>,
> pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Talk about frauds.
>>>
>>> Where do you get the damnede ethanol? I hear a
>>> lot of BULLSHIT about growing stuff where
>>> nothing else will grow but the fact is that the
>>> main effect of ethanol to date has been to raise
>>> food prices.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned motor
>>> fuels from agricultural sources should be banned
>>> outright.
>>
>> Ethanol from corn is a fraud, you're right. But some of the other
>> potential sources, like algae, look promising.
>
> That's nice, but what does it have to do with
> reality?

Promising in the sense that there's every chance it will be worth
bringing to reality.
Re: New phone scams [message #339974 is a reply to message #339971] Wed, 22 March 2017 02:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2017-03-22, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:

> I was in Bellevue which is not downtown Seattle, but how can you
> really tell? I refer to the area as the Metro Seattle Glob (or Blob).

Good point. The glob/blob runs pretty much from Edmonds to Tacoma.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: New phone scams [message #339977 is a reply to message #339960] Wed, 22 March 2017 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 22 Mar 2017 00:06:50 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> Urban areas (e.g. Seattle) can be pretty bewildering.

Agreed, I've been driven around Seattle I wouldn't want to drive
there.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339979 is a reply to message #339955] Wed, 22 March 2017 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:07:48 -0400
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article
> <20170321063002.baa07de61b75980edae0315f@eircom.
> net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:46:35 -0400
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Your only valid argument is that it's
>>> inefficient.
>>
>> Storage is a problem too, either very bulky or very heavy.
>
> Tell it to Honda.

A 5000psi tank isn't heavy ?

>>> But why does it have to be efficient?
>>
>> To cut down on the number of power stations needed.
>
> Why do we care about the number of power
> stations needed?

Because they cost a lot to build and consume a lot of fuel. Or if
you care little for that then consider that the production efficiency
directly affects the price.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339982 is a reply to message #339959] Wed, 22 March 2017 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke wrote:
> In article
> <PM00054B3DCF79B5FA@aca40269.ipt.aol.com>,
> See.above@aol.com says...
>>
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article <0so4qd-jqf.ln1
>>> @sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >In article
>>>> ><20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
>>>> >@eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>>> >> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > > The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge
into
>> in
>>>> >> > > less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> >> > > burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400
>> miles
>>>> >> > > of driving
>>>> >> > > - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make
batteries
>>>> >> > quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> >> > batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> >> > for the next customer.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>>> >> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to
>> fill
>>>> >> from.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>>> >> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of
>> hundred
>>>> >> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to
>> Wikipedia)
>>>> >> or more.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>>> >> change ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows
the
>>>> >> cost of the replacements ?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>>> >> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered
>> generators.
>>>> >> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>>> >
>>>> >Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
>>>> >pump and you're good to go.
>>>>
>>>> Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).
>>>
>>> I love seeing anti-hydrogen people foam at the
>>> mouth.
>>>
>>> Your only valid argument is that it's
>>> inefficient. But why does it have to be
>>> efficient?
>>
>> It's too fucking dangerous!!!!!
>
> I keep hearing this. There are numerous
> hydrogen fueled vehicles on the road. When has
> one killed anybody due to any aspect of hydrogen
> technology?

When there are the equivalent number of hydrogen service stations
to gas stations and hydrogen-fueled cars to gasoline cars,
there will no longer be minor accidents. Don't you remember
your hydrogen experiments in high school chemistry?

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339985 is a reply to message #339982] Wed, 22 March 2017 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> J. Clarke wrote:

>> I keep hearing this. There are numerous
>> hydrogen fueled vehicles on the road. When has
>> one killed anybody due to any aspect of hydrogen
>> technology?
>
> When there are the equivalent number of hydrogen service stations
> to gas stations and hydrogen-fueled cars to gasoline cars,
> there will no longer be minor accidents. Don't you remember
> your hydrogen experiments in high school chemistry?

Yes, I do remember. I remember in particular watching a film
of a hydrogen powered car where they drank the tailpipe emissions.

The gas station a block from my office can fuel hydrogen cars
like the Toyota Mirai.
Re: New phone scams [message #339989 is a reply to message #339963] Wed, 22 March 2017 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mprten Reistad

In article <8860d88d-9b91-4569-a9f5-cd277c2c0756@googlegroups.com>,
<timcaffrey420@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 4:15:27 PM UTC-4, Morten Reistad wrote:
>
>> 1 mile by electric, US : 11c x 1.7 ~= 19c/mile
>> 1 mile by otto/diesel US : us 0.58/litre, 0.6 l/mile ~= 35c/mile
>> 1.84 , non-el car would need to do 0.34l/mile to match
>>
>
> Something in the math is wrong here. I get about ~24 MPG with my SUV,
> at $2.40 a gallon that comes out to $.10 per mile.
> A Corolla will easily get 35 MPG if driven with some restraint.

The math is correct, this is about vocabulary (and reading comprehension).

I went for the scandinavian mile, out of misunderstanding how
well known that was. This is 10 km.

So my figures will have to be multiplied by 0.1609344 to get to
what you are used to. (I made the use of 10km clear three times, but
evidently the "mile" concept is so pegged to 1609.344 meters it
overrides.)

The US figures are, with the imperial mile, ~3 cents for the
electric and ~5.6 cents for a pretty frugal gas/diesel car.

The difference will be somewhat bigger in real life. The 1.7 is for the
Tesla, a Leaf will do 1.45 and a MIV will do 1.35. Most gasoline based
cars do more than 6 l per 100 km.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339990 is a reply to message #339982] Wed, 22 March 2017 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 22 Mar 2017 13:01:09 GMT
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

> When there are the equivalent number of hydrogen service stations
> to gas stations and hydrogen-fueled cars to gasoline cars,
> there will no longer be minor accidents. Don't you remember
> your hydrogen experiments in high school chemistry?

TBF this is not likely to be a problem, the hydrogen tanks are
*very* strong - they have to be to hold the pressure required and are
designed to vent safely. In an accident they'll be much safer than petrol
cars even if the tank gets punctured (unlikely) because they can't soak
everything in flammable/burning liquid, instead the hydrogen goes upwards
pretty quickly, possibly burning as it goes. It wasn't being burnt that
killed people in the airship disasters, it was falling that got most of
them.

However the fear that follows any mention of hydrogen is likely to
be a major problem with acceptance.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339999 is a reply to message #339388] Wed, 22 March 2017 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:15:42 -0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 15 Mar 2017 16:46:13 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Still, in this age of "trigger phrases" and Political Correctness, the
>> pendulum has swung too far the other way. (Except for Donald Trump,
>> of course.)
>
> Hmm Donald Trump, pendulum, pit - sounds good to me.
>
You should be a Poe-et.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
Re: New phone scams [message #340000 is a reply to message #339768] Wed, 22 March 2017 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 18:28:39 -0000, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:

> On Mi, Mär 15 2017, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> On 15 Mar 2017 16:46:13 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Still, in this age of "trigger phrases" and Political Correctness, the
>>> pendulum has swung too far the other way. (Except for Donald Trump,
>>> of course.)
>>
>> Hmm Donald Trump, pendulum, pit - sounds good to me.
>
> Nice idea for all Poe fans.
>
> 'Andreas
Darn I shuddareadahead, I'll not make any more misteaks, not Nevermore.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
Re: New phone scams [message #340004 is a reply to message #340000] Wed, 22 March 2017 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 16:14:03 -0000
"Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> Darn I shuddareadahead, I'll not make any more misteaks, not Nevermore.

No, nay never, no nay never no more ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #340005 is a reply to message #339898] Wed, 22 March 2017 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Banks is currently offline  Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2017-03-20 9:12 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Talk about frauds.
>>
>> Where do you get the damnede ethanol? I hear a lot of BULLSHIT
>> about growing stuff where nothing else will grow but the fact is
>> that the main effect of ethanol to date has been to raise food
>> prices.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned motor fuels from
>> agricultural sources should be banned outright.
>
> Ethanol from corn is a fraud, you're right. But some of the other
> potential sources, like algae, look promising.
>
Dr. Jim Albus in the late 70's proposed what amounted to giant lilipads
up to a 1/2 mile in diameter floating on the water surface on the ocean
near the equator with algae engineered to be processed into petroleum.

The pad was about 5 feet or water separated from the ocean by membrane.
He had worked out a lot of details related to how to handle storms and
the actual processing.

w..
Re: New phone scams [message #340014 is a reply to message #339982] Wed, 22 March 2017 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Banks is currently offline  Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2017-03-22 9:01 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article
>> <PM00054B3DCF79B5FA@aca40269.ipt.aol.com>,
>> See.above@aol.com says...
>>>
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> In article <0so4qd-jqf.ln1
>>>> @sambook.reistad.name>, first@last.name.invalid
>>>> says...
>>>> >
>>>> > In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> > J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> In article
>>>> >> <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
>>>> >> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>>>> >>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>>> >>>>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> >>>>> burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>>> >>>>> of driving
>>>> >>>>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make
> batteries
>>>> >>>> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>>> >>>> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>>> >>>> for the next customer.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>>>> >>> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to
>>> fill
>>>> >>> from.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>>>> >>> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of
>>> hundred
>>>> >>> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to
>>> Wikipedia)
>>>> >>> or more.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>>>> >>> change ...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows
> the
>>>> >>> cost of the replacements ?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>>>> >>> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered
>>> generators.
>>>> >>> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
>>>> >> pump and you're good to go.
>>>> >
>>>> > Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).
>>>>
>>>> I love seeing anti-hydrogen people foam at the
>>>> mouth.
>>>>
>>>> Your only valid argument is that it's
>>>> inefficient. But why does it have to be
>>>> efficient?
>>>
>>> It's too fucking dangerous!!!!!
>>
>> I keep hearing this. There are numerous
>> hydrogen fueled vehicles on the road. When has
>> one killed anybody due to any aspect of hydrogen
>> technology?
>
> When there are the equivalent number of hydrogen service stations
> to gas stations and hydrogen-fueled cars to gasoline cars,
> there will no longer be minor accidents. Don't you remember
> your hydrogen experiments in high school chemistry?
>

The French did a bunch of tests a few years ago on proposed hydrogen
tanks for cars. The conclusion was that ordinary gasoline was far more
dangerous in crashes and fueling. Propane was more dangerous than
hydrogen as well.

They were unable to get any explosion of any significance in their
experiments including burning a car with hydrogen tank that eventually
ruptured and briefly added to the fire before most of the hydrogen just
vaporized expanded and floated away.

w..
Re: New phone scams [message #340016 is a reply to message #340005] Wed, 22 March 2017 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Pfeiffer is currently offline  Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:

> On 2017-03-20 9:12 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Talk about frauds.
>>>
>>> Where do you get the damnede ethanol? I hear a lot of BULLSHIT
>>> about growing stuff where nothing else will grow but the fact is
>>> that the main effect of ethanol to date has been to raise food
>>> prices.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned motor fuels from
>>> agricultural sources should be banned outright.
>>
>> Ethanol from corn is a fraud, you're right. But some of the other
>> potential sources, like algae, look promising.
>>
> Dr. Jim Albus in the late 70's proposed what amounted to giant lilipads
> up to a 1/2 mile in diameter floating on the water surface on the ocean
> near the equator with algae engineered to be processed into petroleum.
>
> The pad was about 5 feet or water separated from the ocean by membrane.
> He had worked out a lot of details related to how to handle storms and
> the actual processing.
>
> w..

What I've seen more recently is lots of tubes of water with the algae
growing in them, being carefully aerated, exposed to light, and
temperature controlled (no, I don't know how they were keeping the algae
from blocking the tubes, nor how it was harvested)
Re: New phone scams [message #340020 is a reply to message #339716] Wed, 22 March 2017 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 06:51:11 -0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
>> No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>> european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>
> And I missed that - sorry.
>
I find it difficult to believe that Europe would adopt the mile esp. now
with Brexit looming large.
(and c. 5.5 Imp miles is quite a big "mile")

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
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