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Re: New phone scams [message #339745 is a reply to message #338877] Sun, 19 March 2017 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-03-19, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:52:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
>>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>>>> > european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>>>>
>>>> And I missed that - sorry.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I never even heard of an European mile before.
>>
>> I was told back in the 1950s that the kilometer was the European Mile.
>
> Presumably you were told this by someone using a head stick?
>
> (It's nonsense.)
>
>

What was probably meant was that Europeans use KM the same way USAins use
miles - as the standard unit of measurement for long-ish distances.

--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339748 is a reply to message #339740] Sun, 19 March 2017 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 13:34:04 +0000
> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18/03/2017 20:25, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On 18 Mar 2017 17:37:23 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On 18 Mar 2017 13:01:44 GMT
>>>> > mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> My objection to electric cars is on the fuel cost, it you are like
>>>> >> us, there is massive tax on petrol/diesel, if electric cars get
>>>> >> popular, that tax will have to be levied on Electric cars as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > That will be difficult as long as they can be charged at home.
>>>> >
>>>> Different sockets being needed for cars?
>>>
>>> Some can be charged from a standard 13A socket - and no matter
>>> what the connection it can't be hard to wire something up.
>>>
>>
>> You can use a 13A socket but it takes a long time.
>
> There's quite a long time between getting home from work and
> leaving in the morning, usually twelve hours or more which is enough to
> fully charge most electrics (cf Morten's post). That's good enough for a
> reasonable daily commute, weekend shopping and the occasional evening out.
>

My worry would be the unplanned. You might have everything mapped out well
and then have to take an unexpected trip out of town one day, or even if
expected it would still involve making other arrangements.

--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339753 is a reply to message #339666] Sun, 19 March 2017 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
Messages: 2799
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, J. Clarke wrote:

> In article
> <20170318160906.f3ccc2ce6453e721823d49d1
> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 11:34:28 -0400
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <20170318141435.d609ad1ca1d13be6a67597e3
>>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Mar 2017 13:01:44 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > My objection to electric cars is on the fuel cost, it you are like us,
>>>> > there is massive tax on petrol/diesel, if electric cars get popular,
>>>> > that tax will have to be levied on Electric cars as well.
>>>>
>>>> That will be difficult as long as they can be charged at home.
>>>
>>> The proposal that I've seen floated is for a
>>> mileage tax. Knowing the politicians it will be
>>> in addition to rather than instead of the gas
>>> tax.
>>
>> Possible I suppose, presumably relying on the annual inspection to
>> record the mileage. I foresee a good market for hacks to turn back the
>> clock.
>
> It's the 21st century. ET has to phone home.
>
> My current car in fact does phone home, or did
> until AT&T dropped 2G--the modem that Ford chose
> to put in it in 2013 is not capable of
> supporting 3G and the dealer seems reluctant to
> upgrade it.
>
Be lucky your car still runs. I keep hearing about things that are
connected to the internet which no longer run if the server is gone, and
various companies have disappeared, taking the required server with them.

Michael
Re: New phone scams [message #339756 is a reply to message #339695] Sun, 19 March 2017 05:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
Messages: 2108
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <2084440955.511581939.263897.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>
> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>
> I expect we'll get there sometime.

The batteries for that is the next generation; the 1000 km ones when installed
in a configuration like the Tesla. They will take charge at this rate from around
15% to around 85% of their capacity, or for around 700-1000 km worth of travel.
From completely full to empty they will go around 1200-1300 km.

They will have around 200 kWh in them in total. To charge them in 15 minutes
will take 800 kW, or almost a megawatt. This is the sort of power usually
reserved for electrical locomotives and process industry. We are really at
10-25 kilovolt deliveries, which have totally different operating procedures.

You will need to feed 2 kiloamperes into the DC if they stay at 400V, if
you put them in series for 800 volts you will need 1 kiloamp. This is the
practical limit of low(ish) voltages, at 1000 you are at high voltage regulations.

This is doable, but I seriously doubt that there will be many charging
stations capacble of such capacites. It would be a challenge just to lift
the cable to attach it to the car.

The ChaDeMo and CCS chargers are limited to 160A, and at 400 volts you
will get 64kW charging. 200kWh will take two hours and a quarter from 15% up
to 85%, more almost 4 from 5% to 95%. On a normal 13A household circuit
it will take 3 and a half days. The "standard" roadside charging station
will charge at ~43kW, and that will take 4 hours for a 1000km trip.

400 volts is way more than adequate for the operation of the car, at
400 kilowatts, almost 600 hp, it will take 100 kilowatts, or around 250A,
to each of 4 wheel motors. This will be in racing car class accelration.

The limit here is not the batteries, it is burning out the motors.

So, for the really long hauls, above 1000 kilometers per day, we are
limited by the charging; and the electrical infrastructure.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339758 is a reply to message #339729] Sun, 19 March 2017 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
Messages: 2108
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <PM00054B160356FCC0@aca424c9.ipt.aol.com>,
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass wrote:
>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> As for "pay for a larger car", I'd like to know
>>>> what kind of "larger car" you can get today that
>>>> can carry noticeably more stuff than a 1959 Ford
>>>> Ranch Wagon. That Ranch Wagon was full--all the
>>>> stuff that my folks didn't trust the movers with
>>>> plus the stuff that they _had_ to have when they
>>>> arrived, plus some quantity of cats, plus a
>>>> canoe.
>>>>
>>>> If you think that moving all that from car to
>>>> car every three hours is acceptable quite
>>>> frankly you have something wrong with you.
>>>
>>> Okay, I guess there is absolutely no solution
>>> to the problems you raise.
>>>
>>
>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
>> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>
>> I expect we'll get there sometime.
>
> Sun roof and a sail.

For the task you replied to you would need one very big sun roof. At 16%
efficiency (which is pretty much the max available in volume) at 1367 watts
per m2 (the value at sea level at noon on the equator) we get ~220 watts per
m2. At a very max. This means you would need a solar panel of at least 3700 m2
to charge that 200 kWh car in 15 minutes. A more realistic value for effect
per m2 is 90 watts for around 7 hours a day. For around 9000 m2 worth of solar
panels you can do 30-35 such charges a day. This is significantly bigger than
a football field, packed densely with solar panels.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339759 is a reply to message #338877] Sun, 19 March 2017 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP.

On 19 Mar 2017 14:41:56 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2017-03-19, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:52:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
>>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>>>> > european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>>>>
>>>> And I missed that - sorry.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I never even heard of an European mile before.
>>
>> I was told back in the 1950s that the kilometer was the European Mile.
>
> Presumably you were told this by someone using a head stick?
>
> (It's nonsense.)

Of course it is. But this was in semi-rural Texas in the 1950s. I
would check out and read 5 or more books from the public library per
week. That made me, in my opinion, more educated than some of the
elementary school teachers. Not all of them were dumb, but they
certainly acted like they were dumb.
--
Jim
Re: New phone scams [message #339760 is a reply to message #339745] Sun, 19 March 2017 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:07:08 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2017-03-19, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:52:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
>>>> > Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>>>> >> european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>>>> >
>>>> > And I missed that - sorry.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I never even heard of an European mile before.
>>>
>>> I was told back in the 1950s that the kilometer was the European Mile.
>>
>> Presumably you were told this by someone using a head stick?
>>
>> (It's nonsense.)
>>
>>
>
> What was probably meant was that Europeans use KM the same way USAins use
> miles - as the standard unit of measurement for long-ish distances.

Possible, but not everyone in that area seemed to think that way.
There were some WW2 vets who said it like you did, and some WW2 vets
who said it they way I posted above.

The teacher wasn't saying it like you did, but more 'their version of
a mile'. I don't remember the exact wording, but it did apparently
confuse some of the WW2 vets I talked to back then.
--
Jim
Re: New phone scams [message #339766 is a reply to message #339737] Sun, 19 March 2017 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 19 Mar 2017 14:48:10 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> We once had a Irish mile, Irish acre, etc, famously used by Cromwells
> soldiers, who were granted so many acres for service in Ireland, and
> claimed Irish acres (which were 8/5 times the size of English statute
> acres)

We still have Irish water pipe sizes, my thermal store tank came
complete with a handy thermostatic mixer (so I could run the tank hot
without having scalding water coming out of the taps) - trouble was it was
a UK one which when connected to Irish PEX leaked *sometimes*. I took it
out of circuit and turned the boiler down to 65C, one day I'll pick one up
locally and turn it back up to 75C.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339767 is a reply to message #339748] Sun, 19 March 2017 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:10:05 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

>> There's quite a long time between getting home from work and
>> leaving in the morning, usually twelve hours or more which is enough to
>> fully charge most electrics (cf Morten's post). That's good enough for a
>> reasonable daily commute, weekend shopping and the occasional evening
>> out.
>>
>
> My worry would be the unplanned. You might have everything mapped out well
> and then have to take an unexpected trip out of town one day, or even if
> expected it would still involve making other arrangements.

That's the problem with electrics today, they're just good enough
for the routine stuff which makes them an ideal second car.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339768 is a reply to message #339388] Sun, 19 March 2017 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Eder is currently offline  Andreas Eder
Messages: 128
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mi, Mär 15 2017, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On 15 Mar 2017 16:46:13 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Still, in this age of "trigger phrases" and Political Correctness, the
>> pendulum has swung too far the other way. (Except for Donald Trump,
>> of course.)
>
> Hmm Donald Trump, pendulum, pit - sounds good to me.

Nice idea for all Poe fans.

'Andreas
Re: New phone scams [message #339769 is a reply to message #339753] Sun, 19 March 2017 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1703191143160.20453
@darkstar.example.org>, et472@ncf.ca says...
>
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <20170318160906.f3ccc2ce6453e721823d49d1
>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>
>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 11:34:28 -0400
>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> <20170318141435.d609ad1ca1d13be6a67597e3
>>>> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>>> >
>>>> > On 18 Mar 2017 13:01:44 GMT
>>>> > mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> My objection to electric cars is on the fuel cost, it you are like us,
>>>> >> there is massive tax on petrol/diesel, if electric cars get popular,
>>>> >> that tax will have to be levied on Electric cars as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > That will be difficult as long as they can be charged at home.
>>>>
>>>> The proposal that I've seen floated is for a
>>>> mileage tax. Knowing the politicians it will be
>>>> in addition to rather than instead of the gas
>>>> tax.
>>>
>>> Possible I suppose, presumably relying on the annual inspection to
>>> record the mileage. I foresee a good market for hacks to turn back the
>>> clock.
>>
>> It's the 21st century. ET has to phone home.
>>
>> My current car in fact does phone home, or did
>> until AT&T dropped 2G--the modem that Ford chose
>> to put in it in 2013 is not capable of
>> supporting 3G and the dealer seems reluctant to
>> upgrade it.
>>
> Be lucky your car still runs. I keep hearing about things that are
> connected to the internet which no longer run if the server is gone, and
> various companies have disappeared, taking the required server with them.

Which practice is eventually going to need some
kind of regulation.
Re: New phone scams [message #339774 is a reply to message #339756] Sun, 19 March 2017 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
> In article <2084440955.511581939.263897.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>
>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
>> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>
>> I expect we'll get there sometime.
>
> The batteries for that is the next generation; the 1000 km ones when installed
> in a configuration like the Tesla. They will take charge at this rate from around
> 15% to around 85% of their capacity, or for around 700-1000 km worth of travel.
> From completely full to empty they will go around 1200-1300 km.
>
> They will have around 200 kWh in them in total. To charge them in 15 minutes
> will take 800 kW, or almost a megawatt. This is the sort of power usually
> reserved for electrical locomotives and process industry. We are really at
> 10-25 kilovolt deliveries, which have totally different operating procedures.
>
> You will need to feed 2 kiloamperes into the DC if they stay at 400V, if
> you put them in series for 800 volts you will need 1 kiloamp. This is the
> practical limit of low(ish) voltages, at 1000 you are at high voltage regulations.
>
> This is doable, but I seriously doubt that there will be many charging
> stations capacble of such capacites. It would be a challenge just to lift
> the cable to attach it to the car.

Maybe they need a different configuration - no cable, drive (or back) into
a bay where a plug attaches directly to your car.

>
> The ChaDeMo and CCS chargers are limited to 160A, and at 400 volts you
> will get 64kW charging. 200kWh will take two hours and a quarter from 15% up
> to 85%, more almost 4 from 5% to 95%. On a normal 13A household circuit
> it will take 3 and a half days. The "standard" roadside charging station
> will charge at ~43kW, and that will take 4 hours for a 1000km trip.
>
> 400 volts is way more than adequate for the operation of the car, at
> 400 kilowatts, almost 600 hp, it will take 100 kilowatts, or around 250A,
> to each of 4 wheel motors. This will be in racing car class accelration.
>
> The limit here is not the batteries, it is burning out the motors.
>
> So, for the really long hauls, above 1000 kilometers per day, we are
> limited by the charging; and the electrical infrastructure.
>

--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339775 is a reply to message #339759] Sun, 19 March 2017 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
JimP. <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19 Mar 2017 14:41:56 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-19, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:52:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
>>>> > Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>>>> >> european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>>>> >
>>>> > And I missed that - sorry.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I never even heard of an European mile before.
>>>
>>> I was told back in the 1950s that the kilometer was the European Mile.
>>
>> Presumably you were told this by someone using a head stick?
>>
>> (It's nonsense.)
>
> Of course it is. But this was in semi-rural Texas in the 1950s. I
> would check out and read 5 or more books from the public library per
> week. That made me, in my opinion, more educated than some of the
> elementary school teachers. Not all of them were dumb, but they
> certainly acted like they were dumb.

Or very smart. Some people learn quickly that it doesn't pay to appear much
smarter than the average person in the area.

--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339783 is a reply to message #339775] Sun, 19 March 2017 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 13:12:12 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> JimP. <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 19 Mar 2017 14:41:56 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-03-19, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:52:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> >> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
>>>> >> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>>>> >>> european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And I missed that - sorry.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I never even heard of an European mile before.
>>>>
>>>> I was told back in the 1950s that the kilometer was the European Mile.
>>>
>>> Presumably you were told this by someone using a head stick?
>>>
>>> (It's nonsense.)
>>
>> Of course it is. But this was in semi-rural Texas in the 1950s. I
>> would check out and read 5 or more books from the public library per
>> week. That made me, in my opinion, more educated than some of the
>> elementary school teachers. Not all of them were dumb, but they
>> certainly acted like they were dumb.
>
> Or very smart. Some people learn quickly that it doesn't pay to appear much
> smarter than the average person in the area.

Yeah, there were some old coots who would happily and without being
asked tell everyone they shouldn't go to school once they finish
elementary school. They said it wasn't necessary.

I said I was going to 7th grade, and finish high school and probably
go on to university.

They asked why I wanted to waste my time ?

I replied that I didn't want to wind up like them, in their 40s and
unable to find work.
--
Jim
Re: New phone scams [message #339785 is a reply to message #339741] Sun, 19 March 2017 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 19 Mar 2017 11:44:25 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 18 Mar 2017 20:43:29 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>> relative, but he will _not_ go car hunting with anyone
>
> Not even for money ?
No. I agree with him. You would need time to even check the basic
things that go wrong with a car.
(That is one of the reasons that I use Linux, I can't be asked what
is wrong with a virus clogged M$ computer)
>
>>> Although TBF the last time I got caught out with something worse
>>> than I thought it was I got the dealer who sold it to take it back for
>>> fixing and loan me something that would do the job I needed it for -
>> can't inject them with stuff that will make them look good for
>> a couple of hours")
>
> Erm, one classic (for cars) was sawdust in the oil to damp out the
> knocking that would signal a big end job needed soon - ie. No Sale! For
> horses a bit of Bute and a sliver or two of ginger under the tail worked
> wonders - or so I'm told.
>

Yes. Spanish fly, used to fill out poor leg bone structure, the other
things.

(Maybe we should transfer this to alt.secondhand.horses :)


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: New phone scams [message #339788 is a reply to message #339756] Sun, 19 March 2017 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:41:31 +0100, Morten Reistad
<first@last.name.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

> This is doable, but I seriously doubt that there will be many charging
> stations capacble of such capacites. It would be a challenge just to lift
> the cable to attach it to the car.

How thick of a cable? The conductor alone and with appropriate
insulation, please.

As Peter suggested, some sort of plug.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: New phone scams [message #339789 is a reply to message #339785] Sun, 19 March 2017 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:44:25 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-03-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On 18 Mar 2017 20:43:29 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>> relative, but he will _not_ go car hunting with anyone
>>
>> Not even for money ?
> No. I agree with him. You would need time to even check the basic
> things that go wrong with a car.
> (That is one of the reasons that I use Linux, I can't be asked what
> is wrong with a virus clogged M$ computer)

More so than that, if you go look at the car for someone and something goes
wrong later, _you're_ to blame. I always say I never want to sell a car to
someone I know.

>>
>>>> Although TBF the last time I got caught out with something worse
>>>> than I thought it was I got the dealer who sold it to take it back for
>>>> fixing and loan me something that would do the job I needed it for -
>>> can't inject them with stuff that will make them look good for
>>> a couple of hours")
>>
>> Erm, one classic (for cars) was sawdust in the oil to damp out the
>> knocking that would signal a big end job needed soon - ie. No Sale! For
>> horses a bit of Bute and a sliver or two of ginger under the tail worked
>> wonders - or so I'm told.
>>
>
> Yes. Spanish fly, used to fill out poor leg bone structure, the other
> things.
>
> (Maybe we should transfer this to alt.secondhand.horses :)
>
>



--
Pete
Re: New phone scams [message #339790 is a reply to message #339718] Sun, 19 March 2017 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gene Wirchenko is currently offline  Gene Wirchenko
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On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:14:14 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:55:25 +0100
> Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> wrote:
>
>> Using mile for 10 km is a more local usage than you think. I for sure had
>> not met it before (not even in translations of Scandinavian books where it
>> could have slipped in), English Wikipedia calls it Scandinavian Mile and
>> restricts its usage to Norway and Sweden, French and Dutch wikipedia seem
>> to ignore it completely.
>
> There is that. I've occasionally wondered about the origin of that
> mile, I know Scandinavians are generally tall but 10 metre paces seems a
> bit of a stretch.

Take a look at the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_mile
'The distance was equal to an older unit of measurement, the "rast"
("rest", "pause"), representing a suitable distance between rests when
walking.[1] See League (unit).'

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
Re: New phone scams [message #339793 is a reply to message #339788] Sun, 19 March 2017 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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In article <mq6ucc17jv4t06bc6rmjeo2jjqhmpr9ovi@4ax.com>,
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:41:31 +0100, Morten Reistad
> <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> This is doable, but I seriously doubt that there will be many charging
>> stations capacble of such capacites. It would be a challenge just to lift
>> the cable to attach it to the car.
>
> How thick of a cable? The conductor alone and with appropriate
> insulation, please.

ChaDeMo says at least 50mm2 (x2) square for the max rates one (160A), for
less than 50A they say 16mm2. With a copper/aluminium sandwich that gives
around 200 grams per centimeter. 20 kgs per meter. Which sound about right.

The insulation is pretty thick too. It is more than an inch thick as it
comes out of the charger. The cables are usually around 2 meters long, and
I have to put my body weight at it when I pull them along.

> As Peter suggested, some sort of plug.

Both the ChaDeMo and the CCS ones are quite intimidating.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339794 is a reply to message #339775] Sun, 19 March 2017 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sidd is currently offline  sidd
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In article <1179340010.511646702.947138.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Or very smart. Some people learn quickly that it doesn't pay to appear much
> smarter than the average person in the area.

seconded. i learned this at a very early age, perfected my blank stare
and vacuous grin in grad school.

i am told i do a very good imitation of a moron.
but perhaps it is not an imitation.

sidd
Re: New phone scams [message #339799 is a reply to message #339633] Mon, 20 March 2017 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2017-03-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 18 Mar 2017 13:01:44 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> My objection to electric cars is on the fuel cost, it you are like us,
>> there is massive tax on petrol/diesel, if electric cars get popular,
>> that tax will have to be levied on Electric cars as well.
>
> That will be difficult as long as they can be charged at home.

Then you get dinged by Hydro rather than the government. Given the
incestuous nature of the relationship between the two over here,
it pretty much works out the same anyway.

--
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Re: New phone scams [message #339801 is a reply to message #339700] Mon, 20 March 2017 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2017-03-19, J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> The last non-motorcycle trip I took of any
> length I departed Hartford around 7 PM and
> arrived in Jacksonville the next afternoon. 45
> minute charging stops every 400km would have
> added about 3 hours to the trip, plus time to go
> from the highway to wherever the charger is,
> plus time to get back to the highway from
> wherever the charger is.

That last point is important. When I started doing
long-distance trips, I quickly learned to not even try
to find any gas station you can't see from the freeway.

The extreme case had to be Vancouver, Washington. On two
separate trips the futility of finding a gas station was
matched only by the difficulty of finding my way back to
the freeway. (I was running low and didn't want to try
to stretch it to Portland - which I wound up having to
do anyway.) I arrived at the theory that Vancouver,
Washington was populated by people who got off the
freeway there and could never find their way back.
They'd spend their lives staring across the river
at Portland and wondering what went wrong.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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Re: New phone scams [message #339802 is a reply to message #339738] Mon, 20 March 2017 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2017-03-19, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> On 2017-03-19, Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/2017 9:04 AM, JimP. wrote:
>>
>>> On 19 Mar 2017 11:52:02 GMT, mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 01:12:49 +0100
>>>> > Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> No; I made it clear three times in the posting that I was using the
>>>> >> european mile, 10 km, not the nautical of imperial one.
>>>> >
>>>> > And I missed that - sorry.
>>>>
>>>> I never even heard of an European mile before.
>>>
>>> I was told back in the 1950s that the kilometer was the European Mile.
>>
>> I was told that girls are pretty much the same as boys.
>
> [more research needed] essay rejected. Comma would have helped.

"Don't use commas, which aren't necessary." -- William Safire

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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Re: New phone scams [message #339803 is a reply to message #339683] Mon, 20 March 2017 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2017-03-18, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 20:24:38 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:59:42 -0500
>> JimP. <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Alabama doesn't have an annual inspection. You get a courtesy
>>> inspection when you get an oil change. The same things are tested, but
>>> no windshield sticker.
>>
>> I doubt that comes close to being as thorough as an Irish NCT or
>> English MOT which involves checking such things as brake performance
>> (service and parking) ovality and imbalance, suspension imbalance, sideslip,
>> emissions, headlight aim and correct functioning of all controls as well as
>> visual inspection of tyres (wear, age and certification marks), suspension,
>> steering, body and chassis
>
> I don't think it comes close to anything but bad judgement. I did ask
> why and I was informed that Alabamians don't like the guvment. I then
> pointed out I noticed there were lots of accidents here.

We used to have government-run inspection stations here in B.C. They
were shut down around 1982, ostensibly for cost-saving reasons. The
service station that was inevitably near each one had a lot of business
adjusting headlights, which almost invariably caused a fail on the
inspection if nothing else did. Funny about all those badly-aimed
headlights blinding oncoming cars these days...

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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Re: New phone scams [message #339806 is a reply to message #339695] Mon, 20 March 2017 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
> - 5+ hours at 70mph.

One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
for the next customer.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
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/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: New phone scams [message #339813 is a reply to message #339806] Mon, 20 March 2017 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>> burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>> of driving
>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>
> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
> for the next customer.

Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
from.

Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
or more.

Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
change ...

Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
cost of the replacements ?

Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339814 is a reply to message #339803] Mon, 20 March 2017 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:48 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2017-03-18, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 20:24:38 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:59:42 -0500
>>> JimP. <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alabama doesn't have an annual inspection. You get a courtesy
>>>> inspection when you get an oil change. The same things are tested, but
>>>> no windshield sticker.
>>>
>>> I doubt that comes close to being as thorough as an Irish NCT or
>>> English MOT which involves checking such things as brake performance
>>> (service and parking) ovality and imbalance, suspension imbalance,
>>> sideslip, emissions, headlight aim and correct functioning of all
>>> controls as well as visual inspection of tyres (wear, age and
>>> certification marks), suspension, steering, body and chassis
>>
>> I don't think it comes close to anything but bad judgement. I did ask
>> why and I was informed that Alabamians don't like the guvment. I then
>> pointed out I noticed there were lots of accidents here.
>
> We used to have government-run inspection stations here in B.C. They
> were shut down around 1982, ostensibly for cost-saving reasons.

I'm pretty sure the Irish NCT system makes a profit, they charge
enough.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339815 is a reply to message #339790] Mon, 20 March 2017 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 17:15:58 -0700
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:14:14 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> There is that. I've occasionally wondered about the origin of
>> that
>> mile, I know Scandinavians are generally tall but 10 metre paces seems a
>> bit of a stretch.
>
> Take a look at the Wikipedia article:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_mile
> 'The distance was equal to an older unit of measurement, the "rast"
> ("rest", "pause"), representing a suitable distance between rests when
> walking.[1] See League (unit).'

It claims the origin to be the same Roman mile that's behind all
the other miles - but that was a thousand paces (hence the name) and I don't
see how you get to 10km from a thousand paces.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339819 is a reply to message #339793] Mon, 20 March 2017 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2017-03-20, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
> In article <mq6ucc17jv4t06bc6rmjeo2jjqhmpr9ovi@4ax.com>,
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:41:31 +0100, Morten Reistad
>> <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> This is doable, but I seriously doubt that there will be many charging
>>> stations capacble of such capacites. It would be a challenge just to lift
>>> the cable to attach it to the car.
>>
>> How thick of a cable? The conductor alone and with appropriate
>> insulation, please.
>
> ChaDeMo says at least 50mm2 (x2) square for the max rates one (160A), for
> less than 50A they say 16mm2. With a copper/aluminium sandwich that gives
> around 200 grams per centimeter. 20 kgs per meter. Which sound about right.
>
> The insulation is pretty thick too. It is more than an inch thick as it
> comes out of the charger. The cables are usually around 2 meters long, and
> I have to put my body weight at it when I pull them along.
>
>> As Peter suggested, some sort of plug.
>
> Both the ChaDeMo and the CCS ones are quite intimidating.
>
> -- mrr
>

Reading the business pages, Tesla may be a thing of the past.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: New phone scams [message #339820 is a reply to message #339806] Mon, 20 March 2017 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <oansfq81h12@news6.newsguy.com>,
cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid says...
>
> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
>> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>
> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
> for the next customer.

Which places limitations on vehicle design--the
batteries have to be pretty much completely
standardized for this to work, and there has to
be some system for identifying and removing from
circulation substandard batteries. Then there's
the question of where the station gets its
initial stock and how it pays for them--big
batteries aren't cheap.
Re: New phone scams [message #339821 is a reply to message #339813] Mon, 20 March 2017 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article
<20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
@eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>
> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>> burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>> of driving
>>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>
>> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>> for the next customer.
>
> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
> from.
>
> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
> or more.
>
> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
> change ...
>
> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
> cost of the replacements ?
>
> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.

Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
pump and you're good to go.
Re: New phone scams [message #339823 is a reply to message #339806] Mon, 20 March 2017 06:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Swallow is currently offline  Andrew Swallow
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On 20/03/2017 06:22, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
>> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>
> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
> for the next customer.
>

Works well with new batteries but old batteries have a reduced range.
Plenty of people will swap old batteries and self recharge new ones.
Re: New phone scams [message #339824 is a reply to message #339819] Mon, 20 March 2017 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 20 Mar 2017 09:42:20 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> Reading the business pages, Tesla may be a thing of the past.

Really ? What have I missed, AFAICS things seem to be going fairly
well for them despite the model X debacle, although judging by some reports
they may soon be selling more battery packs for utility energy storage than
they put into cars.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: New phone scams [message #339825 is a reply to message #339824] Mon, 20 March 2017 07:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
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On 2017-03-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2017 09:42:20 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> Reading the business pages, Tesla may be a thing of the past.
>
> Really ? What have I missed, AFAICS things seem to be going fairly
> well for them despite the model X debacle, although judging by some reports
> they may soon be selling more battery packs for utility energy storage than
> they put into cars.
>

Rights issue, I think. All should be revealed over the next while. I may
be de-optimised because an energy company I was watching is also punting
new stock. Cutting edge is a dangerous place.


--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Re: New phone scams [message #339827 is a reply to message #339586] Mon, 20 March 2017 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Senior Member
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> In article <oahq2f$7jj$1@dont-email.me>,
> despen@verizon.net says...

>>>> Self driving cars make electrics feasible and remove the need for
>>>> car ownership. The garage becomes an extra room.
>>>
>>> Electrics are already feasible.
>>
>> Except to take a long trip. With autonomous vehicles worrying about
>> range and charging time is a non-issue.
>
> So every few hours you're going to unload the
> car, pull off the roof rack, install it on
> another car, and put all the stuff back?
>
> You must not drive much.

And you don't seem to think outside the box, much.
Re: New phone scams [message #339829 is a reply to message #339758] Mon, 20 March 2017 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <PM00054B160356FCC0@aca424c9.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> > As for "pay for a larger car", I'd like to know
>>>> > what kind of "larger car" you can get today that
>>>> > can carry noticeably more stuff than a 1959 Ford
>>>> > Ranch Wagon. That Ranch Wagon was full--all the
>>>> > stuff that my folks didn't trust the movers with
>>>> > plus the stuff that they _had_ to have when they
>>>> > arrived, plus some quantity of cats, plus a
>>>> > canoe.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you think that moving all that from car to
>>>> > car every three hours is acceptable quite
>>>> > frankly you have something wrong with you.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, I guess there is absolutely no solution
>>>> to the problems you raise.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a burger,
>>> and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles of driving
>>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>
>>> I expect we'll get there sometime.
>>
>> Sun roof and a sail.
>
> For the task you replied to you would need one very big sun roof. At 16%
> efficiency (which is pretty much the max available in volume) at 1367 watts
> per m2 (the value at sea level at noon on the equator) we get ~220 watts per
> m2. At a very max. This means you would need a solar panel of at least 3700
m2
> to charge that 200 kWh car in 15 minutes. A more realistic value for effect
> per m2 is 90 watts for around 7 hours a day. For around 9000 m2 worth of
solar
> panels you can do 30-35 such charges a day. This is significantly bigger
than
> a football field, packed densely with solar panels.

I understand that solar panels have extremem limits. Howevevr, I'm still
of the opinion that every little bit helps. Enough little bits become
viable. The panel on a car could take care of other stuff while
the battery usage if focused on getting a vehicle from here to there.

I have battery problems because I don't drive my car very much so
it rarely gets recharged 100% while I drive. All the electronic
bells and whistles in the car drains the battery too much.
I'd like to be able to buy a car which is as simple as
the 1950s designs.

/BAH
Re: New phone scams [message #339834 is a reply to message #339815] Mon, 20 March 2017 06:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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In article <20170320081058.f75f3401e1c53d0108c9bb2b@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 17:15:58 -0700
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:14:14 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There is that. I've occasionally wondered about the origin of
>>> that
>>> mile, I know Scandinavians are generally tall but 10 metre paces seems a
>>> bit of a stretch.
>>
>> Take a look at the Wikipedia article:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_mile
>> 'The distance was equal to an older unit of measurement, the "rast"
>> ("rest", "pause"), representing a suitable distance between rests when
>> walking.[1] See League (unit).'
>
> It claims the origin to be the same Roman mile that's behind all
> the other miles - but that was a thousand paces (hence the name) and I don't
> see how you get to 10km from a thousand paces.

A Roman pace is 1.48 meters. (from you lift one foot until you set it
down again; corresponding to a step of 74 cm).

Thus the Roman pace-defined mile would be 1480 meters.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339835 is a reply to message #339813] Mon, 20 March 2017 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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In article <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>> burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>> of driving
>>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>
>> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>> for the next customer.
>
> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
> from.
>
> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
> or more.
>
> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
> change ...

And have the quality assurance needed for (almost) kiloampere 400V DC
lines (can you say "welding supply"). This is way beyond what even a strong
welding supply would deliver (OK, they are at ~600 volts initially, but
dealing with something that readily delivers several kiloamps is not
something to be taken lightly.)

> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
> cost of the replacements ?

Also the care for batteries. How many deep discharges does it have (below 5-8%),
as that limits battery life.[1]

> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.

If we are to fully convert to electric for all cars and small vans
we will still only increase the electric load by ~9-~20% (it differs
from countries like Norway and Sweden which wallow in cheap electricity
to marginal countries like th UK and Mexico where use per capita is
a lot lower).

-- mrr

[1] Nissan ran a survey last year about how the first year Leaf
batteries were holding up. They more or less questioned everyone that
had purchased the Leaf during the first year, and har a > 60% response
rate. Only 3 cars had less than 85% capacity left, and those owners were
very happy with the total abuse they had put their cars through, with
LOTS of deep discharges, etc. So if you deep-discharge your car less than
once a week you should be fine; at least with ~2012 batteries.

Our Leaf is 2 years old next month, and has over 50 k km on it, and
it shows no perceptible difference on the distance it can travel. It is
still 164 km in very-frugal-mode, and around 134 in non-economical
not-very-cold (i.e. >= -3C) mode.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339836 is a reply to message #339819] Mon, 20 March 2017 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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In article <slrnocv8tu.1a7.mausg@smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-03-20, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <mq6ucc17jv4t06bc6rmjeo2jjqhmpr9ovi@4ax.com>,
>> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 10:41:31 +0100, Morten Reistad
>>> <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> This is doable, but I seriously doubt that there will be many charging
>>>> stations capacble of such capacites. It would be a challenge just to lift
>>>> the cable to attach it to the car.
>>>
>>> How thick of a cable? The conductor alone and with appropriate
>>> insulation, please.
>>
>> ChaDeMo says at least 50mm2 (x2) square for the max rates one (160A), for
>> less than 50A they say 16mm2. With a copper/aluminium sandwich that gives
>> around 200 grams per centimeter. 20 kgs per meter. Which sound about right.
>>
>> The insulation is pretty thick too. It is more than an inch thick as it
>> comes out of the charger. The cables are usually around 2 meters long, and
>> I have to put my body weight at it when I pull them along.
>>
>>> As Peter suggested, some sort of plug.
>>
>> Both the ChaDeMo and the CCS ones are quite intimidating.
>>
>> -- mrr
>>
>
> Reading the business pages, Tesla may be a thing of the past.

Well, tell that to the ~6000 people that preordered the latest model,
unseen, from this rather small country.

Having a pro-electric policy and a radical natural cost advantage does
help, too.

-- mrr
Re: New phone scams [message #339837 is a reply to message #339821] Mon, 20 March 2017 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
Messages: 2108
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
In article <MPG.33396ed651f66d0598aadd@news.eternal-september.org>,
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <20170320075638.55f91e03fe265422eb73d6e4
> @eircom.net>, steveo@eircom.net says...
>>
>> On 20 Mar 2017 06:22:50 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-03-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The solution is to get batteries that you can ram a full charge into in
>>>> less than 15min - time to hit the head, stretch your legs, grab a
>>>> burger, and get back on the road. Also get something good for 400 miles
>>>> of driving
>>>> - 5+ hours at 70mph.
>>>
>>> One way would be to institute an exchange program, and make batteries
>>> quickly replaceable. Service stations would stock fully-charged
>>> batteries; they'd give you one, take your old one, and charge it up
>>> for the next customer.
>>
>> Step 1 get all the manufacturers to standardise their batteries,
>> noting that liquid fuelled cars don't even standardise which side to fill
>> from.
>>
>> Step 2 get them to accept the styling constraints implied by the
>> requirement to rapidly change a battery pack weighing a couple of hundred
>> kilos (Nissan Leaf 24kWh battery pack weighs 218Kg according to Wikipedia)
>> or more.
>>
>> Step 3 provide every filling station with the tools to rapidly
>> change ...
>>
>> Then there's the little detail of battery ageing - who swallows the
>> cost of the replacements ?
>>
>> Alternatively wait for fast charge batteries, high current room
>> temperature superconductors and container sized fusion powered generators.
>> They'll probably be available long before step 1 can be managed.
>
> Or just go with hydrogen. A few minutes at the
> pump and you're good to go.

Don't get me started on the hydrogen fraud. (Yes, it is that bad).

If you want some storable fuel that can be rapidly filled, and can be
100% green (hydrogen is not necessarily green) then Ethanol wins in every
respect. It is a lot safer. We have experience with it. It works in standard
pumps with very minor modifications (some O-rings will need to be changed).
It has a lower storage mass per energy unit if you include the tank,
as much as 4:1 is quoted for current hydrogen storage. It can be quite
easily manufactured from renewable sources (but there are some severe scaling
issues; none compared to renewable hydrogen, though).

It can be phased in quite slowly on gasoline cars too, going in
steps of 10%, 25%, 65% and 95% as the cars adapt.

It has slightly lower energy output per cylinder volume than hydrogen, but
does not wear the metals nearly as much. It has around 75% of the energy
content of gasoline per volume, around 70% by mass.

There is simply not a business case for using hydrogen to fuel cars. And
it is VERY far off from ever becoming one.

-- mrr
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