| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362318 is a reply to message #317958] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 15:20   |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 18:41:33 -0600, Dave Garland wrote:
>
> On 2/1/2018 4:31 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>> Suppose the aim was to have all keys close at the keyboard. a-z-x-c
>> (all-undo-cut-copy). But makes me wonder why "paste" usually has CTRL-p then.
>>
> It does?
Oops, no. What is wrong with me? :-( CTRL-v of course. Which then also
happens to be next to a-z-x-c.
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
an expired license plate means another decoration for your living room wall.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362319 is a reply to message #362306] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 15:23 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Ctrl-P is print.
>
> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
Nah, up is CTRL-E. All hail the mighty WordStar Diamond. ;-)
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
an expired license plate means another decoration for your living room wall.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362323 is a reply to message #362289] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 17:25 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Bob Eager wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:38:11 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > gtaxin wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> in AD MCMXCIX Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>>>> >>> shortcut for Paste? >
>>>> >> V stands for Vipectus which is latin for paste>
>>>> >
>>>> > So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>>
>>>> I figured on many systems, including Linux but also CP/M (probably
>>>> MS-DOS?) Ctrl-S causes a scroll lock. While Ctrl-Q resumes scrolling.
>>>
>>> CTRL-S was used back in the day on ASR-33's with unix to stop output.
>>> Control Q continues output. Those functions live on today.
>>
>> In fact, it lived long before UNIX. I'm pretty sure early DEC systems
>> used it.
>
> They did. Video terminals were really TTYs with no hard copy. In addition,
> <CTRL>O would continue the TTY output but not display it.
>
I don't think I ever knew that.
--
Pete
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362328 is a reply to message #362306] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 17:28 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 18:41:33 -0600, Dave Garland
>> <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/1/2018 4:31 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:48:03 +0000, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > On 01/02/2018 06:46, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>> >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns
>>>> >> <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> How about Ctrl-C for cut?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sincerely,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Gene Wirchenko
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> > May be Copy got their first.
>>>>
>>>> Suppose the aim was to have all keys close at the keyboard. a-z-x-c
>>>> (all-undo-cut-copy). But makes me wonder why "paste" usually has
>>>> CTRL-p then.
>>>>
>>> It does?
>>>
>>> I just looked around on this Win machine... Thunderbird, Notepad,
>>> Notepad+ (also accepts shift-INS), LibreOffice, IrfanView, MSPaint,
>>> Adobe Premiere, Audacity, are all ctrl-V. Don't see anything at all
>>> that's ctrl-p. There are a couple of programs that won't accept a
>>> keyboard shortcut, but that's not what you're talking about. AFAIK my
>>> Linux machine downstairs (with some different software) is pretty much
>>> the same.
>>
>> Ctrl-P is print.
>
> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
+1
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362329 is a reply to message #362323] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 17:49 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:25:32 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>> On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:38:11 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> > On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> gtaxin wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> in AD MCMXCIX Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a
>>>> >>>> keyboard shortcut for Paste? >
>>>> >>> V stands for Vipectus which is latin for paste>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>> >
>>>> > I figured on many systems, including Linux but also CP/M (probably
>>>> > MS-DOS?) Ctrl-S causes a scroll lock. While Ctrl-Q resumes
>>>> > scrolling.
>>>>
>>>> CTRL-S was used back in the day on ASR-33's with unix to stop output.
>>>> Control Q continues output. Those functions live on today.
>>>
>>> In fact, it lived long before UNIX. I'm pretty sure early DEC systems
>>> used it.
>>
>> They did. Video terminals were really TTYs with no hard copy. In
>> addition,
>> <CTRL>O would continue the TTY output but not display it.
>>
>>
> I don't think I ever knew that.
I only ever encountered that on DEC systems.
But remember that Barb's world is exclusively DEC.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362330 is a reply to message #362319] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 18:02 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2/2/2018 2:23 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Ctrl-P is print.
>>
>> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
>
> Nah, up is CTRL-E. All hail the mighty WordStar Diamond. ;-)
>
In vi/vim, ctrl-e moves the text displayed *up* a line, but leaves the
cursor on the same line and character position. Ctrl-y moves the text
displayed *down* a line while leaving the cursor on the same line and
character position. The cursor only changes lines when the cursor abuts
the top or bottom of the screen.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362332 is a reply to message #362328] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 18:11 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 2 Feb 2018 22:28:37 GMT, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 18:41:33 -0600, Dave Garland
>>> <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/1/2018 4:31 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> > On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:48:03 +0000, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 01/02/2018 06:46, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>> >>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns
>>>> >>> <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> How about Ctrl-C for cut?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Gene Wirchenko
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> May be Copy got their first.
>>>> >
>>>> > Suppose the aim was to have all keys close at the keyboard. a-z-x-c
>>>> > (all-undo-cut-copy). But makes me wonder why "paste" usually has
>>>> > CTRL-p then.
>>>> >
>>>> It does?
>>>>
>>>> I just looked around on this Win machine... Thunderbird, Notepad,
>>>> Notepad+ (also accepts shift-INS), LibreOffice, IrfanView, MSPaint,
>>>> Adobe Premiere, Audacity, are all ctrl-V. Don't see anything at all
>>>> that's ctrl-p. There are a couple of programs that won't accept a
>>>> keyboard shortcut, but that's not what you're talking about. AFAIK my
>>>> Linux machine downstairs (with some different software) is pretty much
>>>> the same.
>>>
>>> Ctrl-P is print.
>>
>> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
>
> +1
Didn't I say it was print in Windows software ? If not, I made a
misstep.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362339 is a reply to message #362287] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 19:42 |
Rich Alderson
Messages: 489
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 15:58:37 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:38:11 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> CTRL-S was used back in the day on ASR-33's with unix to stop output. Control Q
>>>> >> continues output.
>>>> >
>>>> > It was also used by the printer to tell the OS to suspend sending data
>>>> > until the latest chunk of data was printed.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Those functions live on today.
>>>> >
>>>> > Is there an application for this other than *legacy* today?
>>>>
>>>> Linux terminal windows.
>>>
>>> Yes. But why? For example printers today don't need XOFF anymore. Linux
>>> uses CUPS and once you fired up a print job CUPS itself talks to the
>>> printer. No need for XOFF there.
>>>
>>> If you list something on a TTY you can usually use PG-UP to see what on
>>> top outside the terminal's view area.
>>
>> That wasn't the question. The question wasn't "why is xon/xoff still
>> used" (to which the answer is there's no compelling reason to change
>> it); it was whether it was used for anything but legacy applications.
>>
>> Note also that the buffer is finite; it's entirely possible to have the
>> top of a program's output no longer be available by the time it
>> finishes.
>
> XOFF will put backpressure all the way back to the system call(s)
> that write to the tty, so no program output is lost due to ^S.
Not true in a network-attached terminal environment. The EtherTIPs at Stanford
buffered far more than a 24-line screen on an H19/Z19 could hold, so ^S was
entirely useless unless your terminal was connected directly to a DEC-20. By
1984, none of them were.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362341 is a reply to message #362329] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 20:13 |
Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I remember CDC systems on which that was true. The terminal hardware
actually capable of addressing, but the only software there treated it
just like a TTY (such a big step up from cards, though!).
Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> writes:
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:25:32 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:38:11 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> >> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> gtaxin wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> in AD MCMXCIX Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a
>>>> >>>>> keyboard shortcut for Paste? >
>>>> >>>> V stands for Vipectus which is latin for paste>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I figured on many systems, including Linux but also CP/M (probably
>>>> >> MS-DOS?) Ctrl-S causes a scroll lock. While Ctrl-Q resumes
>>>> >> scrolling.
>>>> >
>>>> > CTRL-S was used back in the day on ASR-33's with unix to stop output.
>>>> > Control Q continues output. Those functions live on today.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, it lived long before UNIX. I'm pretty sure early DEC systems
>>>> used it.
>>>
>>> They did. Video terminals were really TTYs with no hard copy. In
>>> addition,
>>> <CTRL>O would continue the TTY output but not display it.
>>>
>>>
>> I don't think I ever knew that.
>
> I only ever encountered that on DEC systems.
>
> But remember that Barb's world is exclusively DEC.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362356 is a reply to message #362231] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 22:40 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 01/02/2018 22:33, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:38:11 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>
>>> I figured on many systems, including Linux but also CP/M (probably
>>> MS-DOS?) Ctrl-S causes a scroll lock. While Ctrl-Q resumes scrolling.
>>
>> CTRL-S was used back in the day on ASR-33's with unix to stop output. Control Q
>> continues output.
>
> It was also used by the printer to tell the OS to suspend sending data
> until the latest chunk of data was printed.
>
>> Those functions live on today.
>
> Is there an application for this other than *legacy* today?
>
I used to use it on visual display units to give men time to read the page.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362358 is a reply to message #317958] |
Fri, 02 February 2018 22:42 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 02/02/2018 00:41, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 2/1/2018 4:31 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:48:03 +0000, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2018 06:46, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>>
>>>> How about Ctrl-C for cut?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Gene Wirchenko
>>>>
>>>
>>> May be Copy got their first.
>>
>> Suppose the aim was to have all keys close at the keyboard. a-z-x-c
>> (all-undo-cut-copy). But makes me wonder why "paste" usually has
>> CTRL-p then.
>>
> It does?
>
> I just looked around on this Win machine... Thunderbird, Notepad,
> Notepad+ (also accepts shift-INS), LibreOffice, IrfanView, MSPaint,
> Adobe Premiere, Audacity, are all ctrl-V. Don't see anything at all
> that's ctrl-p. There are a couple of programs that won't accept a
> keyboard shortcut, but that's not what you're talking about. AFAIK my
> Linux machine downstairs (with some different software) is pretty much
> the same.
Ctrl-p was the short cut for Print
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362373 is a reply to message #362306] |
Sat, 03 February 2018 01:42 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
[snip]
> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
Would that include text editors running on systems with keyboards
that do not have Ctrl-P (as in, for example, a Cyrillic keyboard), or
is there a limit to your bigotry?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362451 is a reply to message #362341] |
Sat, 03 February 2018 20:11 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> I remember CDC systems on which that was true. The terminal hardware
> actually capable of addressing, but the only software there treated it
> just like a TTY (such a big step up from cards, though!).
>
> Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:25:32 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>>> > On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 14:38:11 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> >>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 08:46:41 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> gtaxin wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> in AD MCMXCIX Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a
>>>> >>>>>> keyboard shortcut for Paste? >
>>>> >>>>> V stands for Vipectus which is latin for paste>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So why don't we have Ctrl-S for cut? Where S stands for secare ...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I figured on many systems, including Linux but also CP/M (probably
>>>> >>> MS-DOS?) Ctrl-S causes a scroll lock. While Ctrl-Q resumes
>>>> >>> scrolling.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> CTRL-S was used back in the day on ASR-33's with unix to stop output.
>>>> >> Control Q continues output. Those functions live on today.
>>>> >
>>>> > In fact, it lived long before UNIX. I'm pretty sure early DEC systems
>>>> > used it.
>>>>
>>>> They did. Video terminals were really TTYs with no hard copy. In
>>>> addition,
>>>> <CTRL>O would continue the TTY output but not display it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't think I ever knew that.
>>
>> I only ever encountered that on DEC systems.
>>
>> But remember that Barb's world is exclusively DEC.
>
I think there were commands to do the same think. At least I seem to recall
this from TSO, but perhaps others.
--
Pete
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362472 is a reply to message #362373] |
Sat, 03 February 2018 22:51 |
Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
>
> Would that include text editors running on systems with keyboards
> that do not have Ctrl-P (as in, for example, a Cyrillic keyboard), or
> is there a limit to your bigotry?
I'm sure (without actually checking) there was a port of Emacs to
Cyrillic keyboards, with an equivalent binding.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #362549 is a reply to message #362472] |
Mon, 05 February 2018 01:43 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 03 Feb 2018 20:51:11 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:49:59 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
>> <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Ctrl-P is "go up a line" in all properly designed text editors.
>>
>> Would that include text editors running on systems with keyboards
>> that do not have Ctrl-P (as in, for example, a Cyrillic keyboard), or
>> is there a limit to your bigotry?
>
> I'm sure (without actually checking) there was a port of Emacs to
> Cyrillic keyboards, with an equivalent binding.
And other editors have an equivalent binding. For example,
WordStar has Ctrl-E.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385073 is a reply to message #385068] |
Mon, 15 July 2019 21:15 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 15:49:19 -0700 (PDT), mariannamcclymonds@gmail.com
wrote:
> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 1:00:00 AM UTC-7, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>> shortcut for Paste? I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>> I realised I have no idea!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Adrian Thompson
>> Laisterdyke GM Middle School
>> IT Technician
>
> I remember them as C is for copy and V is for verbatim (word for word, line for line, letter for letter, ...). And X is for x-out or remove.
I don't know the official logic but X, C, and V are right next to each
other.
>>
>> http://www.schoolsite.edex.net.uk/365/index.htm
>> http://www.athompson.mcmail.com
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385074 is a reply to message #362108] |
Mon, 15 July 2019 22:52 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 6:37:08 PM UTC-7, gta...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>> shortcut for Paste? I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>> I realised I have no idea!
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian Thompson
>> Laisterdyke GM Middle School
>> IT Technician
>> http://www.schoolsite.edex.net.uk/365/index.htm
>> http://www.athompson.mcmail.com
> V stands for Vipectus which is latin for paste
On the keyboard, V is right next to C, which stands for Copy.
And it rhymes with T, which stands for Trouble, right here in River City!
And then there's X, which is used for "Cut", and which looks a bit like a pair
of scissors. So I think X and C gave rise to V, and Vipectus is a coincidence.
John Savard
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385075 is a reply to message #385068] |
Tue, 16 July 2019 02:15 |
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Originally posted by: David Wade
On 15/07/2019 23:49, mariannamcclymonds@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 1:00:00 AM UTC-7, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>> shortcut for Paste? I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>> I realised I have no idea!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Adrian Thompson
>> Laisterdyke GM Middle School
>> IT Technician
>
> I remember them as C is for copy and V is for verbatim (word for word, line for line, letter for letter, ...). And X is for x-out or remove.
>>
>> http://www.schoolsite.edex.net.uk/365/index.htm
>> http://www.athompson.mcmail.com
>
Surely "V" is for its shape. A down arrow, so the text is split and the
buffer inserted in the gap? And the "X" looks like scissors so "cut"....
Dave
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385079 is a reply to message #385068] |
Tue, 16 July 2019 04:51 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 15:49:19 -0700, mariannamcclymonds wrote:
> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 1:00:00 AM UTC-7, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>> shortcut for Paste? I've just been asked by one fo the children here,
>> and I realised I have no idea!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Adrian Thompson Laisterdyke GM Middle School IT Technician
>
> I remember them as C is for copy and V is for verbatim (word for word,
> line for line, letter for letter, ...). And X is for x-out or remove.
C is for copy, X is the scissors, and V is the paste brush.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385087 is a reply to message #385074] |
Tue, 16 July 2019 14:56 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 19:52:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 6:37:08 PM UTC-7, gta...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>>> shortcut for Paste? I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>>> I realised I have no idea!
>
>>> Thanks,
>
>>> Adrian Thompson
>>> Laisterdyke GM Middle School
>>> IT Technician
>
>>> http://www.schoolsite.edex.net.uk/365/index.htm
>>> http://www.athompson.mcmail.com
>
>> V stands for Vipectus which is latin for paste
>
> On the keyboard, V is right next to C, which stands for Copy.
>
> And it rhymes with T, which stands for Trouble, right here in River City!
>
> And then there's X, which is used for "Cut", and which looks a bit like a pair
> of scissors. So I think X and C gave rise to V, and Vipectus is a coincidence.
V is an upsidedown caret (^) which is used as a notation for
insert. I think that far more likely.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385088 is a reply to message #385073] |
Tue, 16 July 2019 14:57 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 15:49:19 -0700 (PDT), mariannamcclymonds@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 1:00:00 AM UTC-7, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>>> shortcut for Paste? I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>>> I realised I have no idea!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Adrian Thompson
>>> Laisterdyke GM Middle School
>>> IT Technician
>>
>> I remember them as C is for copy and V is for verbatim (word for word,
>> line for line, letter for letter, ...). And X is for x-out or remove.
>
> I don't know the official logic but X, C, and V are right next to each
> other.
>
CUA uses ctrl-insert and shift-insert for cut and paste, but I never can
remember which is which :-O Also, not all applications support them, it’s
inconsistent.
--
Pete
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385101 is a reply to message #385087] |
Tue, 16 July 2019 16:02 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:56:49 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 19:52:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>> On the keyboard, V is right next to C, which stands for Copy.
>>
>> And it rhymes with T, which stands for Trouble, right here in River City!
>>
>> And then there's X, which is used for "Cut", and which looks a bit like a pair
>> of scissors. So I think X and C gave rise to V, and Vipectus is a coincidence.
>
> V is an upsidedown caret (^) which is used as a notation for
> insert. I think that far more likely.
Was this an "invention" by Microsoft? Although it might have worked in
OS/2 (they adopted it?) it's not the standard for a Linux/UNIX console.
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385102 is a reply to message #385088] |
Tue, 16 July 2019 16:03 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:57:45 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
> CUA uses ctrl-insert and shift-insert for cut and paste, but I never can
> remember which is which :-O Also, not all applications support them,
> it’s inconsistent.
Not quite. Shift-Del is cut, and Shift-Ins is paste. I use those a lot.
You may be thinking of Ctrl-Ins - which is (confusingly) - copy.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385125 is a reply to message #385101] |
Wed, 17 July 2019 03:57 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-07-16, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:56:49 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 19:52:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> On the keyboard, V is right next to C, which stands for Copy.
>>>
>>> And it rhymes with T, which stands for Trouble, right here in River City!
>>>
>>> And then there's X, which is used for "Cut", and which looks a bit like a pair
>>> of scissors. So I think X and C gave rise to V, and Vipectus is a coincidence.
>>
>> V is an upsidedown caret (^) which is used as a notation for
>> insert. I think that far more likely.
>
> Was this an "invention" by Microsoft? Although it might have worked in
> OS/2 (they adopted it?) it's not the standard for a Linux/UNIX console.
In MacOS, it has been Cmd + C/V/X for a long time. I'm not sure if it
always was, though? I'm wondering who copied whom here.
Niklas
--
"Having major planets disappear is always a bad sign." - Jim Blinn
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385130 is a reply to message #385125] |
Wed, 17 July 2019 11:25 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 17/07/2019 08:57, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2019-07-16, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:56:49 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 19:52:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the keyboard, V is right next to C, which stands for Copy.
>>>>
>>>> And it rhymes with T, which stands for Trouble, right here in River City!
>>>>
>>>> And then there's X, which is used for "Cut", and which looks a bit like a pair
>>>> of scissors. So I think X and C gave rise to V, and Vipectus is a coincidence.
>>>
>>> V is an upsidedown caret (^) which is used as a notation for
>>> insert. I think that far more likely.
>>
>> Was this an "invention" by Microsoft? Although it might have worked in
>> OS/2 (they adopted it?) it's not the standard for a Linux/UNIX console.
>
> In MacOS, it has been Cmd + C/V/X for a long time. I'm not sure if it
> always was, though? I'm wondering who copied whom here.
>
> Niklas
>
I think it worked on 8 bit machines so pre-Microsoft.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385131 is a reply to message #385130] |
Wed, 17 July 2019 12:01 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-07-17, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 17/07/2019 08:57, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>
>> On 2019-07-16, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:56:49 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 19:52:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On the keyboard, V is right next to C, which stands for Copy.
>>>> >
>>>> > And it rhymes with T, which stands for Trouble, right here in River City!
>>>> >
>>>> > And then there's X, which is used for "Cut", and which looks a bit like
>>>> > a pair of scissors. So I think X and C gave rise to V, and Vipectus is
>>>> > a coincidence.
>>>>
>>>> V is an upsidedown caret (^) which is used as a notation for
>>>> insert. I think that far more likely.
>>>
>>> Was this an "invention" by Microsoft? Although it might have worked in
>>> OS/2 (they adopted it?) it's not the standard for a Linux/UNIX console.
>>
>> In MacOS, it has been Cmd + C/V/X for a long time. I'm not sure if it
>> always was, though? I'm wondering who copied whom here.
>
> I think it worked on 8 bit machines so pre-Microsoft.
Ahem. Microsoft started off writing software for 8-bit machines.
The question remains open.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ "Alexa, define 'bugging'."
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385133 is a reply to message #385125] |
Wed, 17 July 2019 12:43 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 17 Jul 2019 07:57:56 GMT
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
> In MacOS, it has been Cmd + C/V/X for a long time. I'm not sure if it
> always was, though? I'm wondering who copied whom here.
According to Wikipedia it started at Apple with the Lisa. It
certainly wasn't a convention in CP/M (at the command line control-C is a
reboot).
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #385134 is a reply to message #385125] |
Wed, 17 July 2019 15:02 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 17 Jul 2019 07:57:56 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>
> On 2019-07-16, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:56:49 -0700, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>>
>>> V is an upsidedown caret (^) which is used as a notation for
>>> insert. I think that far more likely.
>>
>> Was this an "invention" by Microsoft? Although it might have worked in
>> OS/2 (they adopted it?) it's not the standard for a Linux/UNIX console.
>
> In MacOS, it has been Cmd + C/V/X for a long time. I'm not sure if it
> always was, though? I'm wondering who copied whom here.
Apple copied [the GUI] from Xerox, MS copied theirs (Windows) from
Macintosh or LISA.
Btw.I like your sig with the major planets. *g*
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391586 is a reply to message #317958] |
Sun, 08 March 2020 18:51 |
Robin Vowels
Messages: 426
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 7:00:00 PM UTC+11, Adrian Thompson wrote:
> Hi.
> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
> shortcut for Paste?
Because CTRL-P was used to print.
> I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
> I realised I have no idea!
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Adrian Thompson
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391613 is a reply to message #391586] |
Mon, 09 March 2020 14:56 |
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Originally posted by: John Floren
robin.vowels@gmail.com writes:
> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 7:00:00 PM UTC+11, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>> shortcut for Paste?
>
> Because CTRL-P was used to print.
>
>> I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>> I realised I have no idea!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Adrian Thompson
I'd say that at 21 years old, this is one of the oldest necro'd posts
I've ever seen on the Usenet; a bit of meta-folklore, perhaps!
john
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391668 is a reply to message #317958] |
Tue, 10 March 2020 09:46 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:30:00 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Mar 2020 12:56:52 -0600, John Floren wrote:
>>
>> robin.vowels@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>> On Thursday, January 7, 1999 at 7:00:00 PM UTC+11, Adrian Thompson wrote:
>>>> Hi.
>>>> Can anyone out there tell me why Windows uses Ctrl-V as a keyboard
>>>> shortcut for Paste?
>>>
>>> Because CTRL-P was used to print.
>>>
>>>> I've just been asked by one fo the children here, and
>>>> I realised I have no idea!
>>
>> I'd say that at 21 years old, this is one of the oldest necro'd posts
>> I've ever seen on the Usenet; a bit of meta-folklore, perhaps!
>
> Folklore in folklore. Like folklore to square.
>
> Another example I like is the Welsh singer "Shakin' Stevens", who in the
> 1980s made songs paying homage to songs of the 1960s Rock'n Roll. Because
> the 1960s were vintage in the 1980s, as the 1980s are now.
>
> Damn I feel old.
Hmm.. I sometimes find Nelson Eddy and Jeanette McDonald singing bits
from their movies on youtube. Great siongs !
--
Jim
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391671 is a reply to message #317958] |
Tue, 10 March 2020 11:32 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:30:00 -0400
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> Another example I like is the Welsh singer "Shakin' Stevens", who in the
> 1980s made songs paying homage to songs of the 1960s Rock'n Roll. Because
> the 1960s were vintage in the 1980s, as the 1980s are now.
It's 2020 the 80s are almost twice as far back as the 60s were when
they were now.
> Damn I feel old.
First time that happened to me was in 1987 when I caught sight of a
billboard headed "It Was Twenty Years Ago Today" over a picture of Sgt
Pepper and band.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391696 is a reply to message #391671] |
Tue, 10 March 2020 14:38 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-03-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:30:00 -0400
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> Another example I like is the Welsh singer "Shakin' Stevens", who in the
>> 1980s made songs paying homage to songs of the 1960s Rock'n Roll. Because
>> the 1960s were vintage in the 1980s, as the 1980s are now.
>
> It's 2020 the 80s are almost twice as far back as the 60s were when
> they were now.
See? Time _is_ going faster.
>> Damn I feel old.
>
> First time that happened to me was in 1987 when I caught sight of a
> billboard headed "It Was Twenty Years Ago Today" over a picture of Sgt
> Pepper and band.
:-)
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391723 is a reply to message #317958] |
Wed, 11 March 2020 12:09 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-03-11, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 10 Mar 2020 18:38:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2020-03-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:30:00 -0400
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another example I like is the Welsh singer "Shakin' Stevens", who in the
>>>> 1980s made songs paying homage to songs of the 1960s Rock'n Roll. Because
>>>> the 1960s were vintage in the 1980s, as the 1980s are now.
>>>
>>> It's 2020 the 80s are almost twice as far back as the 60s were when
>>> they were now.
>>
>> See? Time _is_ going faster.
>
> Although that is an illusion. Ye older you get, the time seems to run
> faster.
>
> Teens today can't wait until they get 18-21 years old to acquire a
> driving license. Once they are 30 years old, time seems to rush by in a
> ever higher pace.
And they tell him, take your time, it won't be long now
'Till you drag your feet to slow the circles down.
-- Joni Mitchell
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391755 is a reply to message #391696] |
Wed, 11 March 2020 21:22 |
Robin Vowels
Messages: 426
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, March 11, 2020 at 5:38:58 AM UTC+11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2020-03-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <s.....@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:30:00 -0400
>> Andreas Kohlbach <a.....@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Another example I like is the Welsh singer "Shakin' Stevens", who in the
>>> 1980s made songs paying homage to songs of the 1960s Rock'n Roll. Because
>>> the 1960s were vintage in the 1980s, as the 1980s are now.
>>
>> It's 2020 the 80s are almost twice as far back as the 60s were when
>> they were now.
>
> See? Time _is_ going faster.
Life is like a toilet roll. The closer you get to the end,
the faster it seems to go.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #391960 is a reply to message #391755] |
Thu, 12 March 2020 10:53 |
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Originally posted by: nobody
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:22:04 -0700 (PDT), robin.vowels@gmail.com
wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 11, 2020 at 5:38:58 AM UTC+11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2020-03-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <s.....@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 09:30:00 -0400
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <a.....@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another example I like is the Welsh singer "Shakin' Stevens", who in the
>>>> 1980s made songs paying homage to songs of the 1960s Rock'n Roll. Because
>>>> the 1960s were vintage in the 1980s, as the 1980s are now.
>>>
>>> It's 2020 the 80s are almost twice as far back as the 60s were when
>>> they were now.
>>
>> See? Time _is_ going faster.
>
> Life is like a toilet roll. The closer you get to the end,
> the faster it seems to go.
Not my theory but I like it: every year of life feels shorter than
last year because, relatively, it is - when I was a little kid, a year
was 20% of my lifetime; today, a year is only 2% of my life.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #393476 is a reply to message #317958] |
Wed, 15 April 2020 03:28 |
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Originally posted by: arroyooaksforms
Well, I can tell you for sure it has nothing to do with the convenience of the mouse like others say. Why? There was no mouse when we started using Ctrl-V
Mouse came later. No ESC key. No F-keys. We were inventing ways to make things happen and it was groups of people who got together and talked about causing computers to be useful. These were USER GROUPS. They came before Microsoft. Microsoft brought the money machine into computing.
I can only guess it had to do with being able to make certain things happen in relation to others and all those keys are close together and convenient.. Another person told me she was taught to think of it as VIEW. However, the geeks I hung out with in the early 80's tended to think in cute abstract ways and probably were thinking of putting something close to the other keys we might use frequently and it looked like dropping or setting it down right HERE V.
See? Computer people were nerdy weird people who played with cute thoughts to make things easy to remember. Instructions were commented into code and then could be printed and the code ignored. So Ctrl-c for copy and Crtrl V for put it down right here V IS LIKELY the thinking. I started in 81 with CPM and maybe this came from before in the UNIX days. All the early UNIX people were into cute and interesting word games to make it easy to remember things.
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| Re: Why Ctrl-v for Paste?! [message #393477 is a reply to message #317958] |
Wed, 15 April 2020 03:39 |
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Originally posted by: arroyooaksforms
Well, I think that Microsoft actually introduced the components of what became OFFICE on the Apple platform first.
We had EDLIN and EDIT in DOS.
In 1987 I was working or a Macintosh software developer. Left the world of CPM/86 and our programming staff was busily trying to create a fully relational DBMS for Mac SYSTEM 3.2 in compiled C+ When along came a little ALPHA test version of Microsoft Office on the Mac platform. There were menu items that did not do what they were labeled to do and other things that cause a completely different effect than what was expected. Contact with Microsoft resulted in "yes, we knew that. It is an undocumented feature" for the surprise functions and "it will be enabled later" for those things that were in the manual and under the menus but did not work. As I recall, Word was introduced into the Apple platform first then later to the DOS world even though Microsoft was obviously known for DOS. As for CTRL-V, I think someone was trying to keep all the keys close for a series of related operations and thought that V looks like put it down RIGHT HERE. We were all memorizing keys to make things happen in a NO MOUSE world and there were no standards but V has been standard in my mind since 1981.
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