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So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 12:58 Go to next message
gareth is currently offline  gareth
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Registered: June 2012
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Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.

The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
ideas.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320265 is a reply to message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
> ideas.

My first computer use was in 1976-77 using a dumb terminal, keyboard
and thermal printer with 300 baud acoustic modem, to connect to a
computer on a 4-year campus with us sitting at a community college
campus. The school and the government each paid for part of it. CPU
time mostly. We used it for things like the area under a line,
Simpson's Rule. Next was a Sinclair ZX-81 with the 16KB ram pack about
1983. Then an Amiga A1000 in 1984. Used Apple ][+s at the same
community college in 1985 running Apple BASIC. Apple Fortran v1.0 ran
from a Corvus hard drive networked to most of the Apple computers.

Then I transferred to 4-year university and they had a DEC VAX 11/730
with VT102 terminals. Ran VAX PASCAL on it. One class got to run ADA
on it. Slowed the computer waaaay down during compile time.

--
JimP.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320266 is a reply to message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bert is currently offline  bert
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On Thursday, 9 June 2016 17:58:24 UTC+1, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:
> . . . I feel uneasy with any computer system
> where I am not in complete control, or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API . . .

While I was on my third computer, a colleague took home
some assembly program listings for his Dad, who had asked
him "What's all this computer stuff, then?". He tried
to explain the op code mnemonics, and the symbolic or
indirect operand addressing, but his Dad was quite lost.
A while later, he took home a hexadecimal program dump
to continue working on it, and his Dad asked "What's all
this, then?" Not expecting any more insight, he pointed
out the main store addresses marching in sequence down
the left column, then that (for example) this byte here
'D5', that's the 'MVC' (move characters) instruction,
and the next bit '18' says how many characters to move,
then '3806' says to start moving the characters from
806 beyond the address in register 3, and so on . . .
His Dad said "Oh, I can see that all right; it's a lot
simpler than that other rubbish you showed me last time."
--
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320267 is a reply to message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: mentificium

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:58:24 AM UTC-7, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:
> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969 [...]

The BRAINIAC computer was my Christmas present at age twelve.
It was a console with dials and wires that could show a result
but there was no logic circuitry for true computation.

At age nineteen I started my independent-scholar project in
artificial intelligence by purchasing several dozen electromechanical
relays with which I performed experiments in artificial life
and neural networks.

At age thirty-seven I purchased a Coleco ADAM Z-80 computer
with which I learned to program in Beginner's All-purpose
Symbolic Instruction Code (BASIC) by Kemeny and Kurtz of
Dartmouth.

At age forty-one I paid for an Amiga 1000 on which I learned
REXX from International Business Machines, renamed as ARexx.
http://mind.sourceforge.net/mindrexx.html was my first AI Mind.

Then on the Amiga I learned Forth and the AI program
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Mind.Forth was my next AI.

An outfit called Free-PC.com shipped to me a free computer
and monitor running Windows 98, so my next AI Mind was
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Mind in MSIE JavaScript.
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Dushka was AI in Russian.

In 2009 I bought an Acer Aspire One netbook on which I code
http://wiki.opencog.org/wikihome/index.php/Ghost in Perl as
http://www.sourcecodeonline.com/details/ghost_perl_webserver _strong_ai.html
so as to launch the Technological Singularity with free open-source AI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-99kMuWlXk&t=53m30s is an AI Workshop.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320269 is a reply to message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Makowiec is currently offline  Joe Makowiec
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On 09 Jun 2016 in alt.folklore.computers, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,

1974, freshman chemistry major. We were introduced to computers in math
class by way of using FORTRAN (actually WATFIV) using punch cards read
into a 360-50 or maybe a 360-67.

--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320272 is a reply to message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: artie

1967 at Long Beach City College, using an IBM 1620 II-D -- with the
disk! Was convinced early on that FORTRAN (II-D, you still had to count
all the characters in FORMAT text strings) wasn't as good as writing in
assembly, so that's what I did.

When I started at Uni, the week before classes started, I wandered by
the computer facility (in a series of trailers at the time). Watched as
some folks were putting together a shiny new SDS Sigma-7. Reacted with
laughter and disbelief when one of them told me the cables connecting
the thing together had never been tested on a live machine. Had lunch
with the CEs and SEs responsible for assembling this wonderful puzzle.
Head per track disks! Walking back after lunch, we stopped at the
office of the computer facility director and one of the CEs told him,
"hire this kid, he know which end is up." So the week before school
started, I had a job working for the Sigma-7 side of the computer
facility. On the other side of the room was a much different machine, a
PDP-10.

I did operations/systems work on the Sigma 7. It was also the
timesharing machine, supporting terminals (remember Datapoint? ASR
33s?) all over campus. After the initial timesharing BASIC intro class,
almost all the computer science classes were taught on the PDP-10.

Graduated in computer science and went to work for SDS, just up the
road in scenic El Segundo (701 South Aviation Blvd). Worked on UTS,
CP-V, CP-V real time and multiprocessing. SDS was bought by Xerox and
augered into the ground, something Xerox did to any number of
companies.

A few years later I found myself with one of my SDS colleagues (Dick
Hustvedt, one of the most talented people I've ever met or worked with)
at DEC working on the VAX 11/780.

Came back to the Left Coast to work with microprocessors, and avoid New
England winters.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320275 is a reply to message #320261] Thu, 09 June 2016 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Howard S Shubs is currently offline  Howard S Shubs
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On 2016-06-09, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.

I would have been three or four years old (1968 or '69) when my mom used
to take me to work (a navy subcontractor of some kind in the DC area) on
occasion. I'd walk down the hall and find myself in a door way (she says
it was a window) looking at this BIIIIIIG machine. It was talllll and
went out of sight in both directions. I swear, I imprinted on that IBM
7090 like a baby bird. I had a pretty good idea what I was going to do
for a living from a young age.

The first machine I programmed in any way was a Digicomp 1 in 1973. I
never really understood it. The first machine I understood at all was
some kind of IBM box I never saw, interacting with it using an actual
Teletype and acoustic coupler from Byron Junior High to the Shaker
Heights High School (Cleveland area) during the 1976-1977 school year.
I programmed it in BASIC IIRC.


> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
> ideas.

I hear that. Too much abstraction can be an issue, getting in the way
of understanding what's actually happening. What I'm starting to
understand is that such a deep understanding is no longer always
necessary.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320278 is a reply to message #320275] Thu, 09 June 2016 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 4889
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2016-06-10, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> On 2016-06-09, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>> ideas.

I take it you're not comfortable with Windows or Macs, then.

> I hear that. Too much abstraction can be an issue, getting in the way
> of understanding what's actually happening. What I'm starting to
> understand is that such a deep understanding is no longer always
> necessary.

Perhaps, but people are going overboard sometimes. An extreme case is
Air France flight 447, which crashed in the Atlantic after instrument
malfunctions created a situation that might have been survivable had
the crew's understanding of the basics of flight not atrophied.

But anyway, back to the topic...

My first step into data processing occurred in 1965, when at the tender
age of 15, on a visit to an uncle's, I saw a large binder on a bookshelf
labeled UNIVAC. (I still have it.) I took it down and started reading
about how to wire a plugboard for the 1004 card processor, one of which
was at the company where uncle worked as an accountant. A couple of
months later he took me in to the office and I got my hands on the
equipment and even wired up a board with a small program of my own.
(Extra trivia: the system used 90-column cards.)

I took computer science at the University of B.C. from 1968 to 1971,
and ran programs on their 7044 and 360/67. Between my second and third
years (summer 1970), the Univac contacts I made during my 1004 experience
enabled me to find a summer job at a small service bureau that had a 9300.
I was already becoming disenchanted with the highly theoretical approach
that the CS classes were taking, and suspected that my third year was
going to be my last. I arranged my course schedule so I had Thursdays
off, and continued working part-time at the service bureau. As I
expected, my third year was pretty much a write-off (although access
to the computers was fun), and at the end of the year I dropped out
and went to work for the service bureau full-time.

When I started at the service bureau they had with a pure card system
with 16K of memory, although we soon added a pair of 8411s (clones of
the IBM 2311), which we later upgraded to a pair of 8414s (equivalent
to two 2314 spindles) and increased memory to a whopping 32K.
(It took us a while to figure out what to do with all that space.)
We wrote in RPG if it would do the job, assembly language otherwise.

My first assignment was to take two programs - a summary written in
assembly language and a detail listing written in RPG - and combine
them (translating the RPG code into assembly language) so that they
could get both listings with one pass through the cards. It was a
good introduction for a newbie programmer just learning RPG - it
wasn't vital to the company, but once I got it going, it saved
machine time, which was in short supply.

I was a big fan of assembly language from the time I first wrapped
my head around it. This was one more reason I didn't get along in
the computer science world - they were into the latest and greatest
high-level languages and considered assembly language beneath them.
(I wrote term projects in assembly language partly out of spite.)
One course introduced a new language every two weeks: LISP, UMIST,
SNOBOL4, pl360, and of course several flavours of Algol: 60, 68, and
W. I dodged that bullet by first taking the fun courses like operating
system design, then dropping out before getting to the more theoretical
stuff.

It was the x86 which finally soured me on assembly language. Fortunately,
there was C for me to move to, although for business applications I had
become fluent in COBOL and RPG.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320279 is a reply to message #320278] Fri, 10 June 2016 02:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
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Registered: January 2012
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1964: one tiny program in FORTRAN on cards for an IBM 1620.

Nothing more until:

1980: Borrowed an Apple ][ for awhile, learned BASIC.

Nothing more until:

1987: Made a hand-raised copper curry pan, swapped it even for an
Osborne 1 with software & printer.

Learned C, 8080/Z80 assembler, wrote Conway's Life in BASIC, C and assembler.
Ended up with 7 Osbornes. Managed to compile XLisp but it was so big
that there was RAM left only for a dozen lines of Lisp.

1989: Was given an account on two networked academic systems with Unix
and VMS. Could log into these with the Osborne from home. Yes,
I created a termcap entry for the O1. One guy thought it was
hilarious to see Emacs on the O1 screen in the boondocks.

Omitting a regretable intervening episode using MS-DOS and Win 3.1 at
home,

Present: 5 assorted machines running Linux. At the moment, I'm
watching data scroll across the screen from a bicycle speedo
magnetic switch connected to button #1 of an old serial mouse
plugged into to a Linux P4 where a Perl script is watching
the serial port. The mag switch is positioned next to an
exerise wheel in a cage were a recently captured woodland
jumping mouse -- quite young, I think -- has run about 2.5
miles in the last 4 hours, hitting 2.91 mph max.

The 1964 FORTRAN instructor would be horrified. He wanted to teach us
numerical methods but the whole class threated to drop the course if
he didn't teach us how to, yew know, actually write a program.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320280 is a reply to message #320261] Fri, 10 June 2016 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Wolstenholme is currently offline  Stephen Wolstenholme
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On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
> ideas.
>
>

My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
mainframe in 1967.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320282 is a reply to message #320280] Fri, 10 June 2016 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gareth is currently offline  gareth
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"Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>> ideas.
>
> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
> mainframe in 1967.

I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973
for the first attempt for a home CPU!
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320283 is a reply to message #320279] Fri, 10 June 2016 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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1620-II in 1967 for me. As soon as I started playing with it I knew what I
wanted to do with my life. I did some statistical work on a 7094, but
since I never got to touch the machine it wasn't the same. The next year
the college got an 1130, which helped me get my first job.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320285 is a reply to message #320283] Fri, 10 June 2016 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

I wrote one program in Mancester Autocode in 1969. Then I really started
in early 1971 on an Elliott 4130. BASIC, assembler, ALGOL-60, FORTRAN.

Moved on to...too many to list!


--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320286 is a reply to message #320282] Fri, 10 June 2016 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 11:49:08 +0100, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:

> "Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
> news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
>> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge of the
>>> source and workings of it, having been on the systems programmer course
>>> at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack knowledge
>>> about what is hiding under the API with which I interact, and it is
>>> that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS ideas.
>>
>> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>> mainframe in 1967.
>
> I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973 for the
> first attempt for a home CPU!

I have a 512 byte core memory module from an Atlas (no, not a RIPE Atlas,
although I have an early one of those too).



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320287 is a reply to message #320280] Fri, 10 June 2016 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morten Reistad is currently offline  Morten Reistad
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In article <plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com>,
Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>
>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>> ideas.

I can relate to this, very much.

In various PPOEs I have written a lot of code, and they always
critisize me of coding too close to the metal. But I generally
need fewer lines of code that using X intervening libraries; I just
have to make a library or two myself for the task at hand.

I do get praise for fast and small code, though.

It is probably because I want to know what is going on all the
way, if not in detail, at least have a general understanding.
I have that with Linux, (Free|Open)BSD, QNX, Primos and Tops20.
i.e. I have a good mental map of the internal working principles
and modules.

I have tried getting there with Windows, but AFAIK it is just
documented as a black box.

I am not so stringent to want full control over the entire stack,
I just want to know that people I can trust have that control, and
that it is fully verifiable.

> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
> mainframe in 1967.

My first one was a TI-59. Programmable calculator. Really a
primitive assembler.

Some upper hundreds program steps, a.k.a. Instructions. Not a
firm figure, just "past 500", depending on register use and
use of constants.

-- mrr
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320457 is a reply to message #320282] Fri, 10 June 2016 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Wolstenholme is currently offline  Stephen Wolstenholme
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 11:49:08 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> "Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
> news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
>> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>>> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>>> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>>> ideas.
>>
>> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>> mainframe in 1967.
>
> I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973
> for the first attempt for a home CPU!
>

Did you use them? The core stores were only a small part of the whole
store. Intermittent store parity fails were always blamed on the core
but were always something else. I fixed a lot of SPF's without ever
changing a core or even taken a cover off!

Steve

--
Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320458 is a reply to message #320457] Fri, 10 June 2016 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gareth is currently offline  gareth
Messages: 598
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"Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
news:858llbl14o60u7tmqv8pkshvdm7320p1dm@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 11:49:08 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>> "Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote in message
>> news:plvklbhm7j3euvkmab0562vtl54k2p0opq@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
>>> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>>>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>>>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>>>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>>>> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>>>> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>>>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>>>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>>>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>>>> ideas.
>>> My first computer was an analogue. A glorified op-amp with a 4 by 4
>>> potentiometer array and two meters to read. It could do all sorts of
>>> calculations. My first digital computer was engineer on a Leo 3
>>> mainframe in 1967.
>> I've some 4K core memory planes from a Leo, which I got in 1973
>> for the first attempt for a home CPU!
> Did you use them? The core stores were only a small part of the whole
> store. Intermittent store parity fails were always blamed on the core
> but were always something else. I fixed a lot of SPF's without ever
> changing a core or even taken a cover off!

No, I never ended up using them because I did not get any of the drive
electronics,
and, in any case, during the sloooow construction of my 8-bit TTL processor
two-off 256 by 1 bit static RAMs came my way and the 128 bytes that gave me
with a bit of shift registering satisfied my early need.

I got the Leo stuff from a scrap merchant in Llandudno together with some
black anodised
boxes containing what I presumed to be hand-wired ROM, the result of which
is that I now have a lifetime's supply of OA10 diodes (But did I bin them
during a recent clear out? I certainly binned the RTL round shiny ICs from
a different source!)

The core stacks were in self-contained cases with 48 4K planes in each, but
over
the years, others expressed an interest in having some planes for their
collection,
and I ended up keeping 8 for a byte's worth except that now I only have 7
because
someone wanted some cores for electronic experimentation!
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320459 is a reply to message #320458] Fri, 10 June 2016 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stephen Wolstenholme is currently offline  Stephen Wolstenholme
Messages: 231
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:57:50 +0100, "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> No, I never ended up using them because I did not get any of the drive
> electronics,
> and, in any case, during the sloooow construction of my 8-bit TTL processor
> two-off 256 by 1 bit static RAMs came my way and the 128 bytes that gave me
> with a bit of shift registering satisfied my early need.
>

The store electronics filled four cabinets that were about seven foot
high, two foot wide and three foot deep. You would have needed a bit a
spare room!

> I got the Leo stuff from a scrap merchant in Llandudno together with some
> black anodised
> boxes containing what I presumed to be hand-wired ROM, the result of which
> is that I now have a lifetime's supply of OA10 diodes (But did I bin them
> during a recent clear out? I certainly binned the RTL round shiny ICs from
> a different source!)
>

The LEO III ROMs were known as microplane stores. Another item that
never went wrong if never touched. I remember fitting two extra
microplane to extend the machine code to have floating point
instructions.

> The core stacks were in self-contained cases with 48 4K planes in each, but
> over
> the years, others expressed an interest in having some planes for their
> collection,
> and I ended up keeping 8 for a byte's worth except that now I only have 7
> because
> someone wanted some cores for electronic experimentation!
>
>

Your mention of bytes is another memory for me. LEO didn't work in
bytes. It worked in 44 and 48 bit words. Werner Buchholz coined the
name byte for IBM in 1956 but LEO I was up and running in words.
Thankfully the whole industry went for the byte!

Steve

--
Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320460 is a reply to message #320459] Fri, 10 June 2016 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 13:57:52 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

> Your mention of bytes is another memory for me. LEO didn't work in
> bytes. It worked in 44 and 48 bit words. Werner Buchholz coined the name
> byte for IBM in 1956 but LEO I was up and running in words. Thankfully
> the whole industry went for the byte!

My first real programming was on a 24 bit word oriented machine (Elliott
4130). Also ICL 1900 (24 bit word), and PDP-10 (36 bit word, and yes, I
know about byte pointers).

And I have two word-oriented machines right here. 12 bits.



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320463 is a reply to message #320261] Fri, 10 June 2016 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Banks is currently offline  Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
On 2016-06-09 12:58 PM, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:
> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,

IBM-1620 1966 20K machine with card read/card punch.
Took a fortran course using it, later used the same computer
to do data analysis on it for my thesis. Learned the first
rule of programming if the computer center trusts him give
him a key so his long jobs can be run on weekends and over
night. Immediately followed by sleepless nights and vast quantities
of coke to keep alert and awake and the realization that personal
computers at home were necessary.

Lots of process control with minis, Univac, SDS sigma's then
research on PDP-8's PDP-11, IBM 360/75, Honeywell and a variety
of home built computers starting with a PDP-8 ISA clone implemented with
a microcode processor I created. OSI kits, apple ][,
A personal PDP-11 in my basement from a bankruptcy sale.

w..
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320470 is a reply to message #320261] Fri, 10 June 2016 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alfred Falk is currently offline  Alfred Falk
Messages: 191
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
"gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in news:njc77f
$jot$1@dont-email.me:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
> ideas.

In 1967, when in first year physics, a friend lent me a copy of Germaine's
"Programming the IBM 1620". The university had recently installed a 360/65,
but the 1620 it supplanted was freely available to play with. A new world!
The following summer I also was able to get an account to use the 360, but I
liked the hands-on access of the 1620. The nuclear lab got a PDP-9 in 1967
for data collection and real-time control, and I also learned to program it
in assembler. In my final summer another undergrad assistant and I did a
complete re-write of data acquistion and display programs on the 9.

When one of the DEC representatives learned that I was going to grad school
where there was a PDP-10, he sent me manuals for it. I read them on the 40-
hour train trip. After 3 years in Astromomy I switched to Comp Sci, and the
rest of my working life...

The first computer I actually owned was a DG Nova II, which I bought from a
client after they upgraded to an Eclipse S/130. I dismantled it long ago,
but still have the fromt panel and all the boards. The next was a an
Eclipse C/330, which I still have, but it hasn't been turned on for 20
years.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320471 is a reply to message #320261] Fri, 10 June 2016 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Melzzzzz

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:58:22 +0100
"gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and
> OS ideas.
>
>
>

My first computer was zx spectrum 48k in 1983. Had professional
practice on Burroughs and IBM 1985-1987. Had terminal access so I am
not sure what computer was behind,,, In 1987 I bought amstrad CPC 6128.
In 1992. started to work on Motorola 68030 and AT&T Unix. Also worked
with Unisys and Stratus(VOS)fault tolerant computers . Bought my first
PC in 92. From then I had experience with Sparcs Solaris and Intels with
Solaris or Linux. Worked also on Windows and from 2001 I work almost
exclusively on Linux...
My primary computer language now is C++, but I am practicing every
language I can get ;)
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320478 is a reply to message #320261] Fri, 10 June 2016 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3682
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:

> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>
> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
> ideas.

If your exposure had started earlier, you would certainly be in complete
control with full knowledge of everything going on in the machine.

In 1963 I took the vocational approach to computer programming.
While working for 2 years as a clerk on Wall St. I attended night classes
at Programming and Systems Institute on 42nd St. They taught
Autocoder for the IBM 1401.

My Wall St. Employer had a 1401 and 1460.
This was a tape and card setup with 10 or so programmers.
I wrote a few programs before salary review came up.
Can you believe a tiny raise when I had just advanced from
clerk to programmer?
I bailed on that place the next day.
So first job is a few months using Autocoder tape and card (no disk).

So I jumped my salary 35% and went to a place with
no programmers, just me, an IBM 1440 with Autocoder, disk, card and print.
So I spent the next 2 years implementing application after
application, inventing my own DISK access methods and
designing applications from scratch.

Coding Autocoder on an IBM 1401 was pretty nice.
The machines were usually memory limited but the
design of the machine provided many opportunities for
implementing a lot of logic in a small amount of memory.
So, you might only have 8K to work in, but every byte
was yours to use as you saw fit.

Some 14xx shops were backward enough to use IBM's IOCS for
disk access. Fortunately, I never worked in one.
The disks were dead simple to access (by sequential sector
numbers). Building access methods on top of that is
pretty easy.

I won't bore anyone with the rest of the career.
Been too many places, done too many things.


--
Dan Espen
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320484 is a reply to message #320478] Sat, 11 June 2016 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 22:28:05 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>
>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge of the
>> source and workings of it, having been on the systems programmer course
>> at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>
>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack knowledge
>> about what is hiding under the API with which I interact, and it is
>> that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS ideas.
>
> If your exposure had started earlier, you would certainly be in complete
> control with full knowledge of everything going on in the machine.

I was in complete control in 1971, on our Elliott 4130.

What go me in trouble was that I wasn't meant to be, having managed to
get access to kernel mode.



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320497 is a reply to message #320272] Sat, 11 June 2016 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mike Causer

On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 14:53:40 -0700
artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:

> 1967 at Long Beach City College, using an IBM 1620 II-D -- with the
> disk!

With disk? Our 1620 at Wolverhampton Polytechnic didn't have disk! That
was 1971 and we Mechanical Engineers did not have any computing in the
syllabus, but there was no examination in mathematics in the final year
(we already had all we needed) and the maths lecturer needed a way to
get some sort of attendance at his class. So he taught us Fortran II
which we could run on the 1620. He had the best attendance of any class
that year.

I held the record for the program that ran for longest on the 1620 and
produced only garbage as a result. It was an attempt on optimising
selection for the football pools (it's a form of betting on soccer game
results) but we'd only had sufficient lecture time to show us the
language not how to think algorithmically.

Two years later I was using a CDC 6600 in my job as a design draughtsman
and two years after that was working full-time at the Computer Aided
Design Centre in Cambridge -- a software development spin-off from the
University.


Mike
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320498 is a reply to message #320478] Sat, 11 June 2016 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6674
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, D_J_E wrote:

> Coding Autocoder on an IBM 1401 was pretty nice.
> The machines were usually memory limited but the
> design of the machine provided many opportunities for
> implementing a lot of logic in a small amount of memory.
> So, you might only have 8K to work in, but every byte
> was yours to use as you saw fit.

Would you recall any of the techniques to squeeze in logic
in a small amount of memory? Thanks.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320499 is a reply to message #320478] Sat, 11 June 2016 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6674
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, D_J_E wrote:


> This was a tape and card setup with 10 or so programmers.
> I wrote a few programs before salary review came up.
> Can you believe a tiny raise when I had just advanced from
> clerk to programmer?
> I bailed on that place the next day.

Some employers were incredibly cheap and shortsighted when
it came to salary. It might have been good in the short-term,
saving a little bit of money, but in the long term it led
to high turnover, bad morale, and low quality personnel.

However, amazingly, a lot of programmers didn't like the idea
of jumping ship, even if their employer treated them like crap.
Some of them got royally screwed as eventually their site
collapsed and they lost their jobs.

A smart employee periodically keeps an eye on the marketplace
to see how they're worth in the outside world, as well as what's
going on in the outside world. Naturally, some will find they got
a good deal where they are. But others will realize that, for
them, it's time to move on, IF there are other opportunities out
there.

Years ago, there was a steel mill in our area, and we picked up
a lot of staff from them. The farsighted people realized the mill
didn't have much of a future, and they were right.

Of course, these days, relocation to a distant locale is almost
a must. (Some folks gotta go overseas.) That's tough part for
a lot of people who have families, as relocation with a spouse
and kids is very hard. Our neighborhood had some families move
in from the rust-belt when the kids were juniors and seniors in
high school. By that point, the social networks are established,
and the older kids had trouble fitting in. They weren't happy.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320500 is a reply to message #320261] Sat, 11 June 2016 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6674
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 12:58:24 PM UTC-4, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:

> So, what was your computer birthplace?

My first exposure was an education film in school explaining how
computers worked. I thought it was neat.

When our school got GE Timesharing, I jumped on it.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320502 is a reply to message #320261] Sat, 11 June 2016 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4166
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
The first computer I had the opportunity to use was a PDP 8/e, but this was at
high school, and so I was only using it through CINET BASIC.

Then I got to use a 360/67 running MTS, learning to program it in FORTRAN using
the WATFIV compiler. Also, at the end of the introductory programming course, we
had the opportunity to use APL/360 through 2741 terminals.

Since then, I've used many computers... programming a TI 990/4 in its assembly
language, using UCSD Pascal on an Apple ][, using HP-UX on an HP 9000 system, as just a few examples. One major project was modifying the BASIC for the
Honeywell 316 so that it could use a disk drive, taking the code from the disk
operating system.

John Savard
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320503 is a reply to message #320498] Sat, 11 June 2016 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, D_J_E wrote:
>
>> Coding Autocoder on an IBM 1401 was pretty nice.
>> The machines were usually memory limited but the
>> design of the machine provided many opportunities for
>> implementing a lot of logic in a small amount of memory.
>> So, you might only have 8K to work in, but every byte
>> was yours to use as you saw fit.
>
> Would you recall any of the techniques to squeeze in logic
> in a small amount of memory? Thanks.

It's been a while. Remember, field size is determined by
the word mark.


Clear 3 accumulators:
TAMT DC '0000000'
TQTY DC '000'
TDIV DC '00000'

S TDIV,TDIV
S
S

(Internal A and B registers are used when there are no A and B values in
the instructions)

To search a table, no index register needed:

TABLE DC ' ' KEY
DC ' ' VALUE
DC 'DEF'
DC '01000'
DC 'XYZ'
TE DC '02000'

FKEY DC 'XXX'
FDATA DC '00000'

LOOK MLC FDATA,TE
MLC
SBR LOOK+4 (STORE B REGISTER IN FIRST MOVE INSTRUCTION)
C FKEY,LOOKFOR
BH LOOK
...

I used a similar trick for storing a large actuary table in memory that
would not fit otherwise. I did so buy only storing the parts of the
numbers that were different:

Data needed Data stored
00010000 10000
00015000 5000
00020000 20000
00022000 2000

When moving short values to FOUND, the prior value remained.
On an 8K 1440, the entire table would not fit. But with
short values and keys, it just barely fit. Enough to do
the calculations.

Classic is using instructions as constants.
Since that only saves a byte or 2 I never stooped that low.

--
Dan Espen
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320504 is a reply to message #320478] Sat, 11 June 2016 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gareth is currently offline  gareth
Messages: 598
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
"Dan Espen" <despen@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:njfsvp$8hk$1@dont-email.me...
> "gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>
>> Apart from the FORTRAN for engineers course in 1969,
>> My exposure was to PDP11 and PDP8 in their naked format,
>> so that I had complete control and understanding of the machine,
>> and, even when I progressed to RSX-11, I had complete knowledge
>> of the source and workings of it, having been on the systems
>> programmer course at the Butts centre in Reading in 1978.
>>
>> The result of all that exposure was that I feel uneasy with any
>> computer system where I am not in complete control or lack
>> knowledge about what is hiding under the API with which I interact,
>> and it is that sense of unease that motivates me for my language and OS
>> ideas.
>
> If your exposure had started earlier, you would certainly be in complete
> control with full knowledge of everything going on in the machine.

As indeed I was, as discussed above.
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320505 is a reply to message #320499] Sat, 11 June 2016 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <ddbacd57-3d35-430c-92ab-4de3cb44acc7@googlegroups.com>,
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com says...
>
> On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, D_J_E wrote:
>
>
>> This was a tape and card setup with 10 or so programmers.
>> I wrote a few programs before salary review came up.
>> Can you believe a tiny raise when I had just advanced from
>> clerk to programmer?
>> I bailed on that place the next day.
>
> Some employers were incredibly cheap and shortsighted when
> it came to salary. It might have been good in the short-term,
> saving a little bit of money, but in the long term it led
> to high turnover, bad morale, and low quality personnel.
>
> However, amazingly, a lot of programmers didn't like the idea
> of jumping ship, even if their employer treated them like crap.
> Some of them got royally screwed as eventually their site
> collapsed and they lost their jobs.
>
> A smart employee periodically keeps an eye on the marketplace
> to see how they're worth in the outside world, as well as what's
> going on in the outside world. Naturally, some will find they got
> a good deal where they are. But others will realize that, for
> them, it's time to move on, IF there are other opportunities out
> there.
>
> Years ago, there was a steel mill in our area, and we picked up
> a lot of staff from them. The farsighted people realized the mill
> didn't have much of a future, and they were right.
>
> Of course, these days, relocation to a distant locale is almost
> a must. (Some folks gotta go overseas.) That's tough part for
> a lot of people who have families, as relocation with a spouse
> and kids is very hard. Our neighborhood had some families move
> in from the rust-belt when the kids were juniors and seniors in
> high school. By that point, the social networks are established,
> and the older kids had trouble fitting in. They weren't happy.

A certain company which shall remain unnamed recently decided to
outsource its IT staff. The only thing that has actually changed is
that the IT staff now has different badges, lower pay, less benefits,
and a far worse attitude. But to upper management shaving a few pennies
apparently was more important than retaining a competent staff.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320506 is a reply to message #320502] Sat, 11 June 2016 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 14:22:06 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> Since then, I've used many computers... programming a TI 990/4 in its
> assembly language, using UCSD Pascal on an Apple ][, using HP-UX on an
> HP 9000 system, as just a few examples. One major project was modifying
> the BASIC for the Honeywell 316 so that it could use a disk drive,
> taking the code from the disk operating system.

One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a Honeywell
516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions and effects in
restricted mode.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320507 is a reply to message #320506] Sat, 11 June 2016 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4166
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:

> One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a Honeywell
> 516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions and effects in
> restricted mode.

Wow! That is an advanced project.

John Savard
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320508 is a reply to message #320499] Sat, 11 June 2016 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3024
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> Of course, these days, relocation to a distant locale is almost
> a must. (Some folks gotta go overseas.) That's tough part for
> a lot of people who have families, as relocation with a spouse
> and kids is very hard. Our neighborhood had some families move
> in from the rust-belt when the kids were juniors and seniors in
> high school. By that point, the social networks are established,
> and the older kids had trouble fitting in. They weren't happy.

one of the analysis about part of the downturn with the economic mess
.... was a lot of US economic vitality has been worker mobility ... from
the law of unintended consequences ... the underwater mortgages had
significantly restricted worker mobility.

that was separate from a press conference that Bernanke had shortly
after Federal Reserve lost legal action requiring them to disclose what
they were doing (aka with only $700B allocated for TARP, it was way too
small for the bailout, most of it was used for window dressing and other
stuff ... and it was the Federal Reserve providing tens of trillions in
ZIRP funds for the "real" bailout). Bernanke said that he had assumed
that the "too big to fail" would use the tens of trillions in ZIRP funds
to help main street, but when they didn't he had no way to force them
(but that hasn't stop the ZIRP funds). Note that supposedly one of the
reasons Bernanke was chosen as FED chairman was because he was student
of the great depression, however the FED had tried something similar
then with the same result (so Bernanke should have had no expectation
for anything different this time).

fed chairman posts
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#fed.chairman
"too big to fail" ("too big to prosecute", "too big to jail") posts
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
Pecora hearing posts (congressional hearings into the '29 crash
resulted in "glass-steagall" and jail terms)
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGl ass-Steagall

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320510 is a reply to message #320507] Sun, 12 June 2016 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:48:03 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:

> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a
>> Honeywell 516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions and
>> effects in restricted mode.
>
> Wow! That is an advanced project.

It was my final year undergraduate project (and probably what saved my
degree).

The modifications were largely to allow one to create a proper VM - the
original design did not allow proper virtualisation.



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Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320511 is a reply to message #320510] Sun, 12 June 2016 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <ds4nmuFeav1U1@mid.individual.net>, news0006@eager.cx says...
>
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:48:03 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
>>
>>> One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a
>>> Honeywell 516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions and
>>> effects in restricted mode.
>>
>> Wow! That is an advanced project.
>
> It was my final year undergraduate project (and probably what saved my
> degree).
>
> The modifications were largely to allow one to create a proper VM - the
> original design did not allow proper virtualisation.

If you learned how to do that sort of thing as an undergraduate I want
to have gone to wherever you went. Or was it a case of learning despite
the school instead of because of it?

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Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320512 is a reply to message #320511] Sun, 12 June 2016 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:01:40 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> In article <ds4nmuFeav1U1@mid.individual.net>, news0006@eager.cx says...
>>
>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:48:03 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a
>>>> Honeywell 516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions
>>>> and effects in restricted mode.
>>>
>>> Wow! That is an advanced project.
>>
>> It was my final year undergraduate project (and probably what saved my
>> degree).
>>
>> The modifications were largely to allow one to create a proper VM - the
>> original design did not allow proper virtualisation.
>
> If you learned how to do that sort of thing as an undergraduate I want
> to have gone to wherever you went. Or was it a case of learning despite
> the school instead of because of it?
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I was actually studying Electronics. I wasn't very good at analogue
stuff! And then I became hooked on computing in my spare time. My
vacation project (compulsory) at the end of the second year was a plotter
interface - which was spectacularly awful. I guess I was just very keen.

I think I still have the drawings somewhere.

Oh, University of Kent, Canterbury, UK.



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320513 is a reply to message #320512] Sun, 12 June 2016 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <ds4u6mFeav1U3@mid.individual.net>, news0006@eager.cx says...
>
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:01:40 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> In article <ds4nmuFeav1U1@mid.individual.net>, news0006@eager.cx says...
>>>
>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:48:03 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a
>>>> > Honeywell 516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions
>>>> > and effects in restricted mode.
>>>>
>>>> Wow! That is an advanced project.
>>>
>>> It was my final year undergraduate project (and probably what saved my
>>> degree).
>>>
>>> The modifications were largely to allow one to create a proper VM - the
>>> original design did not allow proper virtualisation.
>>
>> If you learned how to do that sort of thing as an undergraduate I want
>> to have gone to wherever you went. Or was it a case of learning despite
>> the school instead of because of it?
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> I was actually studying Electronics. I wasn't very good at analogue
> stuff! And then I became hooked on computing in my spare time. My
> vacation project (compulsory) at the end of the second year was a plotter
> interface - which was spectacularly awful. I guess I was just very keen.
>
> I think I still have the drawings somewhere.
>
> Oh, University of Kent, Canterbury, UK.

Compulsory vacation project? Definitely a different approach from US
colleges, at least the ones I've attended.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: So, what was your computer birthplace? [message #320514 is a reply to message #320513] Sun, 12 June 2016 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Stephen Wolstenholme is currently offline  Stephen Wolstenholme
Messages: 231
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:24:29 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article <ds4u6mFeav1U3@mid.individual.net>, news0006@eager.cx says...
>>
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 07:01:40 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> In article <ds4nmuFeav1U1@mid.individual.net>, news0006@eager.cx says...
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:48:03 -0700, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:17:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Eager wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> One of my most interesting projects was modifying the CPU on a
>>>> >> Honeywell 516. Backwards compatible, but some modified instructions
>>>> >> and effects in restricted mode.
>>>> >
>>>> > Wow! That is an advanced project.
>>>>
>>>> It was my final year undergraduate project (and probably what saved my
>>>> degree).
>>>>
>>>> The modifications were largely to allow one to create a proper VM - the
>>>> original design did not allow proper virtualisation.
>>>
>>> If you learned how to do that sort of thing as an undergraduate I want
>>> to have gone to wherever you went. Or was it a case of learning despite
>>> the school instead of because of it?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>> I was actually studying Electronics. I wasn't very good at analogue
>> stuff! And then I became hooked on computing in my spare time. My
>> vacation project (compulsory) at the end of the second year was a plotter
>> interface - which was spectacularly awful. I guess I was just very keen.
>>
>> I think I still have the drawings somewhere.
>>
>> Oh, University of Kent, Canterbury, UK.
>
> Compulsory vacation project? Definitely a different approach from US
> colleges, at least the ones I've attended.
>

It my experience vacation work was advisory rather than compulsory.
Even so I never got around to doing any!

Steve

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Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com
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