| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316478 is a reply to message #316432] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 16:03   |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 9:43:21 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
These days, parents are obsessed with organized sports for their
kids. The parents are very competitive. Plenty of kids do get
various injuries, and the parents seem fine with that.
(Actually, this goes back to Little League of the 1960s, see Alan
King's book on life in the suburbs, circa 1961.)
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316483 is a reply to message #316456] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 16:28 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2016-04-16, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
> In article <slrnnh42bl.18p.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have an in-law that grew up in the country, now lives in semi-suburbia,
>
> I grew up just at the edge of suburbia, but now the place is around 15 km
> inside the suburbia zone. The forest is a condo now, but the farm is still
> there, run by some eco-people now; much smaller land but much denser grown.
>
>> We went down to see them once, a couple of six-packs and he was moaning
>> about how the youngsters nowadays don't hack at cars as we did then,
>> back in thge 50s-60s, I asked him what he would do if one of his took
>> apart a couple of cars to see if they could be joined at bell-housing.
>> with leaking oil, etc, on his forcourt. No way.
>
> We got an old Java 1936 vintage motorcycle, 600 cc, working again. And
> we ran on the field just beyond the forest. We were 13-14 at the time.
>>
>> Welived in a magical time, everything could be hacked with. Now, little can.
>
> Programming and electronics is still hackable.
Last thing I made that worked was a TV-begone. In traffic, point it
at a house and press. When I looked it up, the settings for the US
were different than that for the EU. Still turned TVs off.
>
> -- mrr
A man I know recently got an old Russian motorcycle with sidecar, a
copy of the more widespread German one. (AFAIK, once the RussiansI
got a Willys jeep, the motorbikes were forgotten) ncredibly simple.
Some of the old `carburettors' were tin cans with a wick going into
the engine inlet, safety was secondry consideration.
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316484 is a reply to message #316457] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 16:32 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2016-04-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2016 10:03:13 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> Case A. You have a shotgun. fire it at something, slight `ping',
>> nothing happens. What do you do next.
>
> Well first you get a torch and look down the barrels, maybe poke a
> stick down too, then you open it in front of your face to get a good look at
> and replace the faulty cartridge.
>
> It shouldn't take too many repeats to qualify for a Darwin award.
>
Incredibly, there are things on YouTube that show actions
like that, and not all fake.
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316485 is a reply to message #316460] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 16:35 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Joy Beeson wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2016 12:18:44 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <grin> I had no idea Kroger still existed.
>>
>
> The stores near Southboro, Mass had IQ-challenged people who would
> help if a person needed it. There's nothing like that here in
> Mich. I do remember bagboys taking the groceries out when I was
> a kid. New Jersey still has people who will pump gas for you.
>
>>
With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
that they have made a mistake?
>>
>>> Does gluten come in a dry package like the yeast?
>>
>> The last two packages of gluten I bought were boxes, like potato
>> flakes. I think the gluten sold at Warsaw Health Foods comes in bags,
>> but I haven't looked lately. I'm pretty sure gluten costs more at the
>> health-food store. (Nuts, on the other hand, are cheaper there,
>> except walnuts, which are cheapest at Aldi.)
>>
>> Gluten is always labeled "vital wheat gluten". I just looked it up in
>> Wikipedia, and learned that "vital" is to distinguish pure powdered
>> gluten from prepared forms. Didn't say why "vital"; but they had to
>> say something and "vital" is kewler than "powdered".
>>
>
> Thanks for the info. I don't remember seeing a package like that
> but I'm one who hates to shop.
>
> /BAH
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316488 is a reply to message #316462] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 16:38 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Walter Bushell wrote:
>> In article <MPG.31772eb1c702a9c698a0bf@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you're talking about American margarine, he's correct because in 1938
>>> it was unlawful in many localities to dye the margarine yellow. Those
>>> laws were repealed around 1955.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately. It was the last barrier to margarine taking over the
>> market over butter. The margarine was full of trans fats for decades.
>>
>> Now what we are replacing trans fats with are probably worse than the
>> trans fats. And so it goes.
>>
> Butter was supposed to be worse for you than margerine--I think this
> was in the late 50s.
>
> /BAH
I remember the early 1950s, a lot of Irish people had gone to the UK,
where jobs were, the food was still crap over there. I remember the
visitors coming back, pale faces, thinnish, ravenous for good eggs and
butter, and `real' potatoes.
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316490 is a reply to message #316477] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 18:35 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
In article <87inzh1ic0.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>,
mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> In article <slrnnh42bl.18p.mausg@Smaus.org>, mausg@mail.com says...
>>
>>> We lived in a magical time, everything could be hacked with. Now,
>>> little can.
>>
>> Kids today hack cars you know, in the "hacker" sense. In the '50s
>> you had to understand carburetors, now you have to understand
>> ECUs--same ojbective, different technique.
>
> Not just "technique" is different. Until circa 1965, everything was
> analogue. You could figure out how it worked by taking it apart. Now
> you can't.
Of course you can. You just need the right tools.
> You need original documentation, sophisticated
> instumentation, advanced knowledge of tech.
You consider this all to be "advanced" because you're not familiar with
it. Car-obsessed high-schoolers today are quite capble of pulling a ROM
image from an ECU and figuring out how it works.
And try fiddling a carburetor with no understanding of the mechanism.
> In the 60s, I worked at "BJ's Foreign Auto". Bud had been in the US
> Navy in WW II, worked in Britain for a few years afterward as a
> mechanic, later opened his own business in Leftpondia. In a university
> twon with crazy kids and eccentric professors, we saw all kinds of
> weird European cars, many of which were never commercialy exported to
> the US. When we got a car with the engine in the wrong end, installed
> (notionally) backwards (Panhard) or one with belts and pulleys instead
> of a transmission (DKW, IIRC) or propellers and hull (Amphicar) or
> worn parts that would take 6 months to get from Italy (Lancia) and
> were giving it the doubtful eye, Bud would say, "A man made it. A man
> can fix it!" And we would do just that.
>
> No longer. A computer designed it -- often "in its own image, after
> its likeness" -- and robot made it. Such are at least still analogue
> physical objects but often designed intentionally not to be
> repairable.
If you think that computers do engineering design you've never worked as
an engineer. The computer is a useful tool that supplementes a variety
of other useful tools and in some cases replaces them. But it does not
design anything.
And a robot can't do anything that a machinist with a well equipped shop
can't do, it can just do it faster and with less scrap.
> Hacking anything with a proprietary digital black box is not even
> slightly the same kind of thing as hacking real hardware.
It is hacking real hardware. Electronics is mysterious to you so you
don't see hacking it as having anything to do with hardware.
> Hacking a
> desktop computer, even with extensive documentation and kernel source
> available, is not even slightly the same kind of thing -- as I am
> currently seeing, trying to solve a problem with excessive memory
> usage when writing to a newly installed HD. Solutions offered on
> Usenet are mostly, "Upgrade to a newer kernel." Nobody says that
> about my 1936 Pierce Arrow.
That has nothing to do with it being a computer and everything to do
with current operating systems being baroque monstrosities with so much
cruft attached that nobody can understand them in their entirety.
Imagine an engine with 413 cyinders all of different sizes, with 28,000
camshafts working a half a million valves, and a different kind of
carburetor feeding each intake valve, and you begin to understand the
difficulty with modern operating systems.
ECUs don't run Linux.
> Hacking analog hardware is open to kids with a certain cognitive style
> that tilts to spatial relations and attention to visual detail.
> Hacking a car's coupter module(s) isn't open to anyone who hasn't read
> a vast amount of technical literature.
Actually it's open to kids with a certain cognitive style that tilts to
understanding algorithms.
> 1947: Bud and Lefty Griswold burned out a rod bearing on their old
> heap in trials for a stock car race. No parts, no time. Lefty
> crawled under the car, dropped the pan, replaced the bearing with
> a piece of leather cut from his belt, bolted it all up. They won the
> race. Let's hear it for analogue.
And you think that bearings have computers in them?
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316496 is a reply to message #316490] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 18:31 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> In article <87inzh1ic0.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>,
> mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere says...
>
>> Hacking anything with a proprietary digital black box is not even
>> slightly the same kind of thing as hacking real hardware.
>
> It is hacking real hardware. Electronics is mysterious to you so you
> don't see hacking it as having anything to do with hardware.
Thank you for the condescension. Electronics is not mysterious to me
-- not my forte but hardly mysterious. But the contemporary embodiment
of it is not intrinsically accessible to human hands and the human
eye. You can't take a solid state device apart and learn how it
works.
> Imagine an engine with 413 cyinders all of different sizes, with
> 28,000 camshafts working a half a million valves, and a different
> kind of carburetor feeding each intake valve....
Ah, you've owned a Jag XK-140.
> ...and you begin to understand the difficulty with modern operating
> systems.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316497 is a reply to message #316483] |
Sat, 16 April 2016 17:33 |
Morten Reistad
Messages: 2108
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <slrnnh582f.1lj.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-16, Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <slrnnh42bl.18p.mausg@Smaus.org>, <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have an in-law that grew up in the country, now lives in semi-suburbia,
>>
>> I grew up just at the edge of suburbia, but now the place is around 15 km
>> inside the suburbia zone. The forest is a condo now, but the farm is still
>> there, run by some eco-people now; much smaller land but much denser grown.
>>
>>> We went down to see them once, a couple of six-packs and he was moaning
>>> about how the youngsters nowadays don't hack at cars as we did then,
>>> back in thge 50s-60s, I asked him what he would do if one of his took
>>> apart a couple of cars to see if they could be joined at bell-housing.
>>> with leaking oil, etc, on his forcourt. No way.
>>
>> We got an old Java 1936 vintage motorcycle, 600 cc, working again. And
>> we ran on the field just beyond the forest. We were 13-14 at the time.
>>>
>>> Welived in a magical time, everything could be hacked with. Now, little can.
>>
>> Programming and electronics is still hackable.
>
> Last thing I made that worked was a TV-begone. In traffic, point it
> at a house and press. When I looked it up, the settings for the US
> were different than that for the EU. Still turned TVs off.
You just have to emit a wild train of sync pulses at the right frequency
to throw off TVs, NTSC,PAL SECAM alike.
>> -- mrr
>
> A man I know recently got an old Russian motorcycle with sidecar, a
> copy of the more widespread German one. (AFAIK, once the RussiansI
> got a Willys jeep, the motorbikes were forgotten) ncredibly simple.
> Some of the old `carburettors' were tin cans with a wick going into
> the engine inlet, safety was secondry consideration.
The Java was a pre-ww2 Czechoslovakian model, VERY solidly built,
conventional but pretty modern. It just needed some new wires, everything
corroded (almost everything) patiently scrubbed and polished,
reassembled and oiled.
And did so at the age of 13-14 without any of our parents discovered.
Barns, garages etc were the place to do it.
-- mrr
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316519 is a reply to message #316484] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 01:50 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 16 Apr 2016 20:32:34 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2016-04-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 16 Apr 2016 10:03:13 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Case A. You have a shotgun. fire it at something, slight `ping',
>>> nothing happens. What do you do next.
>>
>> Well first you get a torch and look down the barrels, maybe
>> poke a stick down too, then you open it in front of your face to get a
>> good look at and replace the faulty cartridge.
>>
>> It shouldn't take too many repeats to qualify for a Darwin
>> award.
>>
>
>
> Incredibly, there are things on YouTube that show actions
> like that, and not all fake.
Oh I expect it's less dangerous than Russian Roulette - but not
by much.
More seriously, and never having handled a shotgun, I would guess
that what you really do is break it open in such a way that neither the
barrels nor the breech are pointing at anything that matters at any time
and shake the cartridge out somehwere it won't cause much distress if it
goes off.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316520 is a reply to message #316498] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 01:47 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2016 18:36:48 -0500
Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote:
> mausg@mail.com writes:
>> A man I know recently got an old Russian motorcycle with sidecar, a
>> copy of the more widespread German one. (AFAIK, once the RussiansI
>> got a Willys jeep, the motorbikes were forgotten) ncredibly simple.
>> Some of the old `carburettors' were tin cans with a wick going into
>> the engine inlet, safety was secondry consideration.
>
> Ural.
Also Dniepier (sp ?) and Cossack at various times from different
factories.
> They are still being made.
Although they have become more sophisticated, the current ones have
electric start, automatic advance/retard, decent carbs and 12 volt
electrics. My 1970s one had none of these (well the original Russian carbs
had been replaced with SU carbs on mine - no air filters though) but it was
a wonderful machine, you could drive it pretty much anywhere ...
> I owned one briefly.
... until it died - a valve spring broke, I made the mistake of
pulling the cylinder while I had the head off - there was no skirt on the
piston, the rings fell out in bits and it got worse from there. Had I just
left the cylinder in place and replaced the valve spring it would probably
have been fine (I towed a small car with it a few weeks earlier).
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316534 is a reply to message #316519] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 05:12 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
In article <20160417065048.282dd590bb33e5e7620fc787@eircom.net>,
steveo@eircom.net says...
>
> On 16 Apr 2016 20:32:34 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2016-04-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 16 Apr 2016 10:03:13 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Case A. You have a shotgun. fire it at something, slight `ping',
>>>> nothing happens. What do you do next.
>>>
>>> Well first you get a torch and look down the barrels, maybe
>>> poke a stick down too, then you open it in front of your face to get a
>>> good look at and replace the faulty cartridge.
>>>
>>> It shouldn't take too many repeats to qualify for a Darwin
>>> award.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Incredibly, there are things on YouTube that show actions
>> like that, and not all fake.
>
> Oh I expect it's less dangerous than Russian Roulette - but not
> by much.
>
> More seriously, and never having handled a shotgun, I would guess
> that what you really do is break it open in such a way that neither the
> barrels nor the breech are pointing at anything that matters at any time
> and shake the cartridge out somehwere it won't cause much distress if it
> goes off.
If you're not in the midst of a fire-fight then give it a minute to see
if it cooks off, if not, then your procedure is right, noting when it
comes out if it had discharged at all, and if so then you want to clear
the bore.
In the midst of a firefight other priorities might take precedence.
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316537 is a reply to message #316498] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 07:07 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-04-16, Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote:
> mausg@mail.com writes:
>> A man I know recently got an old Russian motorcycle with sidecar, a
>> copy of the more widespread German one. (AFAIK, once the RussiansI
>> got a Willys jeep, the motorbikes were forgotten) ncredibly simple.
>> Some of the old `carburettors' were tin cans with a wick going into
>> the engine inlet, safety was secondry consideration.
>
> Ural.
>
> They are still being made.
>
> I owned one briefly.
>
> --NK1G
>
That friend buys up old bikes, fixes them up, and runs them on obscure
mountain roads.
"Why not get a modern Japanese bike?"
"Because they are booring"
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316542 is a reply to message #316534] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 07:04 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 05:12:34 -0400
"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <20160417065048.282dd590bb33e5e7620fc787@eircom.net>,
> steveo@eircom.net says...
>>
>> On 16 Apr 2016 20:32:34 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-04-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On 16 Apr 2016 10:03:13 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Case A. You have a shotgun. fire it at something, slight `ping',
>>>> > nothing happens. What do you do next.
>>>>
>>>> Well first you get a torch and look down the barrels, maybe
>>>> poke a stick down too, then you open it in front of your face to
>>>> get a good look at and replace the faulty cartridge.
>>>>
>>>> It shouldn't take too many repeats to qualify for a Darwin
>>>> award.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Incredibly, there are things on YouTube that show actions
>>> like that, and not all fake.
>>
>> Oh I expect it's less dangerous than Russian Roulette - but not
>> by much.
>>
>> More seriously, and never having handled a shotgun, I would
>> guess that what you really do is break it open in such a way that
>> neither the barrels nor the breech are pointing at anything that
>> matters at any time and shake the cartridge out somehwere it won't
>> cause much distress if it goes off.
>
> If you're not in the midst of a fire-fight then give it a minute to see
> if it cooks off,
That makes sense, which implies keep it in position to absorb
recoil for a bit rather than immediately going into fix the problem mode. I
can imagine having it go off just as you are swinging it round to open it
being a tad unpleasant and somewhat hard on the hands and arms.
> if not, then your procedure is right, noting when it
> comes out if it had discharged at all, and if so then you want to clear
> the bore.
>
> In the midst of a firefight other priorities might take precedence.
Yep, with priority 0 being arranging not to be in the midst of a
firefight as quickly as possible.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316543 is a reply to message #316488] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 07:35 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> In article <MPG.31772eb1c702a9c698a0bf@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you're talking about American margarine, he's correct because in 1938
>>>> it was unlawful in many localities to dye the margarine yellow. Those
>>>> laws were repealed around 1955.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately. It was the last barrier to margarine taking over the
>>> market over butter. The margarine was full of trans fats for decades.
>>>
>>> Now what we are replacing trans fats with are probably worse than the
>>> trans fats. And so it goes.
>>>
>> Butter was supposed to be worse for you than margerine--I think this
>> was in the late 50s.
>>
>> /BAH
>
> I remember the early 1950s, a lot of Irish people had gone to the UK,
> where jobs were, the food was still crap over there. I remember the
> visitors coming back, pale faces, thinnish, ravenous for good eggs and
> butter, and `real' potatoes.
>
They claim the food is pretty good there now.
--
Pete
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316551 is a reply to message #316485] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 10:03 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Joy Beeson wrote:
>>> On 15 Apr 2016 12:18:44 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <grin> I had no idea Kroger still existed.
>>>
>>
>> The stores near Southboro, Mass had IQ-challenged people who would
>> help if a person needed it. There's nothing like that here in
>> Mich. I do remember bagboys taking the groceries out when I was
>> a kid. New Jersey still has people who will pump gas for you.
>>
>>>
>
> With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
> that they have made a mistake?
They don't make mistakes. One guy explained how to pack groceries
into bags. His Rule #1 is to pack the groceries the way he would
like to have them packed. For example, he didn't like having
the bread and eggs at the bottom of the bag.
Another gal explained to me how to wash shelves. Her shelves were
very clean when she was done.
The only "mistake" they do make is taking time to train us
customers :-). An explanation can take a long time. I admired
their work ethic, thoroughness and enjoyment of doing good
job. you don't find that attitude in a lot of people who do
have an average or above-average IQ.
/BHA
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316553 is a reply to message #316156] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 10:09 |
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Originally posted by: Lawrence Statton NK1G
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> I assume that imported foods are supposed to have been produced under
> something similar to our laws regarding pesticides, etc. Given the
> free-wheeling environment in Mexico I don't trust them to follow their own
> laws. What does the "organic" label mean for produce from Mexico.
As I'm sure you know, the USDA inspects "all" (samples) food being
imported from Mexico before it can be sold.
A recent story in the expat press picked up on an article posted in
Consumer Reports that Mexican produce had substantially *lower* levels
of pesticide and defects than US produce, across a wide variety of
classes. (The ones that stood out in my mind were Lettuce, and Melons -
but there were about a dozen mentioned in the article).
I've been living here (MX) for the last 16 years, and I can say without
exaggeration: The locally available produce is an order of magnitude
better (and cheaper) than anything I could get even in the snootiest
SFBA store (looking askance at YOU, Whole Paycheck).
[Actually -- the Nob Hill in Campbell was my preferred grocer when I
lived there]
--NK1G
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316554 is a reply to message #316485] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 10:23 |
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Originally posted by: Lawrence Statton NK1G
mausg@mail.com writes:
> With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
> that they have made a mistake?
>
Back in the mid-80s there was an electronics assembly company that I
used frequently that was operated as a sheltered workshop -- they hired
the mentally retarded and trained them.
One day, I went down to drop off some blank boards to be stuffed, and
took a tour of the place. I asked the owner PRECISELY that question and
his response was (I paraphrase -- it's 30 years ago) "You just tell
them, 'that's wrong' and show them how to do it right."
I mentioned my visit to my mother (who had spent 25 years teaching
special ed at the high school level) and asked her if she had the same
experience with her students. "Oh, yes -- while there are exceptions I
can think of, the majority of my students[1] took correction well
.... it's the GATE[2] students (with a burning stare) who believe themselves
to be infallable."
[1] She taught at a level that was, at the time classed "EMR -- Educable
Mentally Retarded" ... higher functioning 75-90 IQ, IIRC. Since then,
the name of the group has changed to keep up with the Euphemism
Treadmill)
[2] "Gifted and Talented Education" -- the Euphemism of the Day for the
opposite end of the bell curve, where I studied.
--NK1G
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316567 is a reply to message #316448] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 11:24 |
Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <slrnnh42bl.18p.mausg@Smaus.org>, mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2016-04-15, Morten Reistzd <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1604151414130.17695@darkstar.example.org>,
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016, Walter Bushell wrote:
>>>
>>
>> At least some neighbour could probably see us at all times, but we were
>> never closely supervised.
>>
>> And around half the kids in my class broke an arm or a leg at some time
>> from 2nd to 6th grade. I just had my ankle disjointed in a football match.
>> At the hospital they just gave me a large shot of morphine and two medical
>> students snapped it back into place.
>>
>> None of this was anything out of the ordinary then.
>>
>> We were lucky to have that upbringing.
>>
>> -- mrr
>>
>
> I have an in-law that grew up in the country, now lives in semi-suburbia,
> We went down to see them once, a couple of six-packs and he was moaning
> about how the youngsters nowadays don't hack at cars as we did then,
> back in thge 50s-60s, I asked him what he would do if one of his took
> apart a couple of cars to see if they could be joined at bell-housing.
> with leaking oil, etc, on his forcourt. No way.
>
> Welived in a magical time, everything could be hacked with. Now, little can.
Not hardware, but software certainly can be.
--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316570 is a reply to message #316568] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 11:40 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
In article <proto-B7A691.11264417042016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
says...
>
> In article <nes5eu02pbu@news6.newsguy.com>,
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
>> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
>> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
>
> Of curse. Sports are (IMPORTANT!).
I was never big on sports, still am not in my personal life, but I'm
coming to realize that team sports have a role that is often neglected.
Most of what passes for education requires and rewards individual effort
("do your own work"). The only place that there's any exposure to
working as a team is in phys-ed and there it's usually not very
systematic.
So I'm coming around to the viewpoint that until someone comes up with a
better approach, sports does have a significant and important role in
education.
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316572 is a reply to message #316570] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 12:09 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <proto-B7A691.11264417042016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
> says...
>>
>> In article <nes5eu02pbu@news6.newsguy.com>,
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
>>> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
>>> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
>>
>> Of curse. Sports are (IMPORTANT!).
>
> I was never big on sports, still am not in my personal life, but I'm
> coming to realize that team sports have a role that is often neglected.
> Most of what passes for education requires and rewards individual effort
> ("do your own work"). The only place that there's any exposure to
> working as a team is in phys-ed and there it's usually not very
> systematic.
>
> So I'm coming around to the viewpoint that until someone comes up with a
> better approach, sports does have a significant and important role in
> education.
>
Interesting insight.
--
Pete
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316577 is a reply to message #316519] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 14:27 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:50:48 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2016 20:32:34 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2016-04-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 16 Apr 2016 10:03:13 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Case A. You have a shotgun. fire it at something, slight `ping',
>>>> nothing happens. What do you do next.
>>>
>>> Well first you get a torch and look down the barrels, maybe
>>> poke a stick down too, then you open it in front of your face to get a
>>> good look at and replace the faulty cartridge.
>>>
>>> It shouldn't take too many repeats to qualify for a Darwin
>>> award.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Incredibly, there are things on YouTube that show actions
>> like that, and not all fake.
>
> Oh I expect it's less dangerous than Russian Roulette - but not
> by much.
>
> More seriously, and never having handled a shotgun, I would guess
> that what you really do is break it open in such a way that neither the
> barrels nor the breech are pointing at anything that matters at any time
> and shake the cartridge out somehwere it won't cause much distress if it
> goes off.
I remember reading of a Russian Roulette player who wanted to impress
the ladies in a bar. He used a clip-fed pistol, not a cylinder pistol,
and killed himself.
--
JimP.
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316583 is a reply to message #316543] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 16:13 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-04-17, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Walter Bushell wrote:
>>>> In article <MPG.31772eb1c702a9c698a0bf@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > If you're talking about American margarine, he's correct because in 1938
>>>> > it was unlawful in many localities to dye the margarine yellow. Those
>>>> > laws were repealed around 1955.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately. It was the last barrier to margarine taking over the
>>>> market over butter. The margarine was full of trans fats for decades.
>>>>
>>>> Now what we are replacing trans fats with are probably worse than the
>>>> trans fats. And so it goes.
>>>>
>>> Butter was supposed to be worse for you than margerine--I think this
>>> was in the late 50s.
>>>
>>> /BAH
>>
>> I remember the early 1950s, a lot of Irish people had gone to the UK,
>> where jobs were, the food was still crap over there. I remember the
>> visitors coming back, pale faces, thinnish, ravenous for good eggs and
>> butter, and `real' potatoes.
>>
>
> They claim the food is pretty good there now.
>
>
>
As long as you like curry, or chips.
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316584 is a reply to message #316552] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 16:17 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-04-17, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2016-04-16, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [24 lines snipped]
>>>>
>>>> >> I was admiring all the lemon trees in Phoenix. Daughter ruined that by
>>>> >> saying "roof rats really love to eat the lemons."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> > Bats?
>>>>
>>>> Squirrels, I imagine.
>>>
>>> I had to look it up too:
>>> http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/roof_rats.htm
>>
>> Makes sense - I refer to squirrels as "tree rats" instead.
>>
> Squirrels are edible. Rats aren't ;-)
>
> /BAH
Depends on how hungry you are!
During the Nigerian civil war, local TV was very pro-Biafra,
Looking at the TV one night, there were pictures of people being
forced to eat rats. Man up the counter, who had served in
Nigeria, laughed. "They always eat rats out there". They eat
insects in Thailand
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316585 is a reply to message #316577] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 16:19 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-04-17, JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 06:50:48 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On 16 Apr 2016 20:32:34 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-04-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On 16 Apr 2016 10:03:13 GMT
>>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Case A. You have a shotgun. fire it at something, slight `ping',
>>>> > nothing happens. What do you do next.
>>>>
>>>> Well first you get a torch and look down the barrels, maybe
>>>> poke a stick down too, then you open it in front of your face to get a
>>>> good look at and replace the faulty cartridge.
>>>>
>>>> It shouldn't take too many repeats to qualify for a Darwin
>>>> award.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Incredibly, there are things on YouTube that show actions
>>> like that, and not all fake.
>>
>> Oh I expect it's less dangerous than Russian Roulette - but not
>> by much.
>>
>> More seriously, and never having handled a shotgun, I would guess
>> that what you really do is break it open in such a way that neither the
>> barrels nor the breech are pointing at anything that matters at any time
>> and shake the cartridge out somehwere it won't cause much distress if it
>> goes off.
>
> I remember reading of a Russian Roulette player who wanted to impress
> the ladies in a bar. He used a clip-fed pistol, not a cylinder pistol,
> and killed himself.
>
He shold have been working at the low-IQ place.
--
greymaus
iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316588 is a reply to message #316570] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 20:23 |
Michael Black
Messages: 2799
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2016, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <proto-B7A691.11264417042016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
> says...
>>
>> In article <nes5eu02pbu@news6.newsguy.com>,
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
>>> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
>>> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
>>
>> Of curse. Sports are (IMPORTANT!).
>
> I was never big on sports, still am not in my personal life, but I'm
> coming to realize that team sports have a role that is often neglected.
> Most of what passes for education requires and rewards individual effort
> ("do your own work"). The only place that there's any exposure to
> working as a team is in phys-ed and there it's usually not very
> systematic.
>
> So I'm coming around to the viewpoint that until someone comes up with a
> better approach, sports does have a significant and important role in
> education.
>
Oh yes, such as defining the outsiders, ie the ones who don't play along.
Nothing like being the last one picked when it's about team sports, then
everyone mad at you because you aren't interested in the game and aren't
any good. It's not my choosing, I was only in gym because it was
compulsory.
The only thing I got out of gym was the time when I was finally fed up
with it, and stood up to the teacher. I expected the worst, but it wasn't
fair being put in the position of it being compulsory but not being
interested or caring. It fixed things well, my first political action,
those of us not interested, and I wasn't the only one, got to run laps
around the balcony that was part of the gym, while the others continued
with their volleyball game.
Most people are "really good" at being part of the team, but that doesn't
make them good thinkers or anything else.
Michael
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316590 is a reply to message #316552] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 20:56 |
Gerard Schildberger
Messages: 163
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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|
On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 9:01:51 AM UTC-5, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2016-04-16, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> Huge wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [24 lines snipped]
>>>>
>>>> >> I was admiring all the lemon trees in Phoenix. Daughter ruined that by
>>>> >> saying "roof rats really love to eat the lemons."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> > Bats?
>>>>
>>>> Squirrels, I imagine.
>>>
>>> I had to look it up too:
>>> http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/roof_rats.htm
>>
>> Makes sense - I refer to squirrels as "tree rats" instead.
>>
> Squirrels are edible. Rats aren't ;-)
>
> /BAH
"King Rat" (James Clavell), anyone?
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316591 is a reply to message #316588] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 21:33 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1604172018450.21819@darkstar.example.org>,
et472@ncf.ca says...
>
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> In article <proto-B7A691.11264417042016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article <nes5eu02pbu@news6.newsguy.com>,
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
>>>> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
>>>> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
>>>
>>> Of curse. Sports are (IMPORTANT!).
>>
>> I was never big on sports, still am not in my personal life, but I'm
>> coming to realize that team sports have a role that is often neglected.
>> Most of what passes for education requires and rewards individual effort
>> ("do your own work"). The only place that there's any exposure to
>> working as a team is in phys-ed and there it's usually not very
>> systematic.
>>
>> So I'm coming around to the viewpoint that until someone comes up with a
>> better approach, sports does have a significant and important role in
>> education.
>>
> Oh yes, such as defining the outsiders, ie the ones who don't play along.
>
> Nothing like being the last one picked when it's about team sports, then
> everyone mad at you because you aren't interested in the game and aren't
> any good. It's not my choosing, I was only in gym because it was
> compulsory.
>
> The only thing I got out of gym was the time when I was finally fed up
> with it, and stood up to the teacher. I expected the worst, but it wasn't
> fair being put in the position of it being compulsory but not being
> interested or caring. It fixed things well, my first political action,
> those of us not interested, and I wasn't the only one, got to run laps
> around the balcony that was part of the gym, while the others continued
> with their volleyball game.
>
> Most people are "really good" at being part of the team, but that doesn't
> make them good thinkers or anything else.
To be successful in fields such as engineering, you have to both be a
good thinker and able to play on a team. And a lot of "good thinkers"
aren't good at playing on a team.
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316595 is a reply to message #316588] |
Sun, 17 April 2016 23:36 |
Gene Wirchenko
Messages: 1166
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:23:08 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> In article <proto-B7A691.11264417042016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article <nes5eu02pbu@news6.newsguy.com>,
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
>>>> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
>>>> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
>>>
>>> Of curse. Sports are (IMPORTANT!).
>>
>> I was never big on sports, still am not in my personal life, but I'm
>> coming to realize that team sports have a role that is often neglected.
>> Most of what passes for education requires and rewards individual effort
>> ("do your own work"). The only place that there's any exposure to
>> working as a team is in phys-ed and there it's usually not very
>> systematic.
>>
>> So I'm coming around to the viewpoint that until someone comes up with a
>> better approach, sports does have a significant and important role in
>> education.
>>
> Oh yes, such as defining the outsiders, ie the ones who don't play along.
>
> Nothing like being the last one picked when it's about team sports, then
> everyone mad at you because you aren't interested in the game and aren't
> any good. It's not my choosing, I was only in gym because it was
> compulsory.
Another aspect of it is that it often is not taught much so if
one does not already know the sport, one never gets the chance to
learn it in class.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316609 is a reply to message #316554] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 08:07 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 17/04/2016 15:23, Lawrence Statton NK1G wrote:
> mausg@mail.com writes:
>> With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
>> that they have made a mistake?
>>
>
> Back in the mid-80s there was an electronics assembly company that I
> used frequently that was operated as a sheltered workshop -- they hired
> the mentally retarded and trained them.
>
> One day, I went down to drop off some blank boards to be stuffed, and
> took a tour of the place. I asked the owner PRECISELY that question and
> his response was (I paraphrase -- it's 30 years ago) "You just tell
> them, 'that's wrong' and show them how to do it right."
>
> I mentioned my visit to my mother (who had spent 25 years teaching
> special ed at the high school level) and asked her if she had the same
> experience with her students. "Oh, yes -- while there are exceptions I
> can think of, the majority of my students[1] took correction well
> ... it's the GATE[2] students (with a burning stare) who believe themselves
> to be infallable."
>
>
> [1] She taught at a level that was, at the time classed "EMR -- Educable
> Mentally Retarded" ... higher functioning 75-90 IQ, IIRC. Since then,
> the name of the group has changed to keep up with the Euphemism
> Treadmill)
>
> [2] "Gifted and Talented Education" -- the Euphemism of the Day for the
> opposite end of the bell curve, where I studied.
>
> --NK1G
>
So you treat them like a computer (or robot) and program them.
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316610 is a reply to message #316588] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 08:38 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Michael Black wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> In article <proto-B7A691.11264417042016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article <nes5eu02pbu@news6.newsguy.com>,
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ironically, in some situations (e.g. contact sports) it seem to be
>>>> considered acceptable (or at least much less unacceptable) for a kid
>>>> to break an arm or a leg. But that's a topic for future thread drift...
>>>
>>> Of curse. Sports are (IMPORTANT!).
>>
>> I was never big on sports, still am not in my personal life, but I'm
>> coming to realize that team sports have a role that is often neglected.
>> Most of what passes for education requires and rewards individual effort
>> ("do your own work"). The only place that there's any exposure to
>> working as a team is in phys-ed and there it's usually not very
>> systematic.
>>
>> So I'm coming around to the viewpoint that until someone comes up with a
>> better approach, sports does have a significant and important role in
>> education.
>>
> Oh yes, such as defining the outsiders, ie the ones who don't play along.
>
> Nothing like being the last one picked when it's about team sports, then
> everyone mad at you because you aren't interested in the game and aren't
> any good. It's not my choosing, I was only in gym because it was
> compulsory.
>
> The only thing I got out of gym was the time when I was finally fed up
> with it, and stood up to the teacher. I expected the worst, but it wasn't
> fair being put in the position of it being compulsory but not being
> interested or caring. It fixed things well, my first political action,
> those of us not interested, and I wasn't the only one, got to run laps
> around the balcony that was part of the gym, while the others continued
> with their volleyball game.
>
> Most people are "really good" at being part of the team, but that doesn't
> make them good thinkers or anything else.
It doesn't encourage thinking outside the box or the team dynamics.
The leader of the team (the real one, not the assigned one) has
to know how to herd the rest. Sometimes, that happens in a
(elhi school) sports team but rarely. Most of the jocks are
too self-important to help non-team members of the class.
/BAH
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316615 is a reply to message #316553] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 09:39 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> writes:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> I assume that imported foods are supposed to have been produced under
>> something similar to our laws regarding pesticides, etc. Given the
>> free-wheeling environment in Mexico I don't trust them to follow their own
>> laws. What does the "organic" label mean for produce from Mexico.
> A recent story in the expat press picked up on an article posted in
> Consumer Reports that Mexican produce had substantially *lower* levels
> of pesticide and defects than US produce, across a wide variety of
> classes. (The ones that stood out in my mind were Lettuce, and Melons -
> but there were about a dozen mentioned in the article).
>
> I've been living here (MX) for the last 16 years, and I can say without
> exaggeration: The locally available produce is an order of magnitude
> better (and cheaper) than anything I could get even in the snootiest
> SFBA store (looking askance at YOU, Whole Paycheck).
That's not at all surprising. Although the markets (I'm thinking
downtown Mazatlan) aren't appealing to some snooty americans.
>
> [Actually -- the Nob Hill in Campbell was my preferred grocer when I
> lived there]
Nob Hill was purchased by Raley's a few years ago, but they've kept
the name (and the existing stores, for the most part) and the quality.
They did finally introduce a loyalty program (which I decline).
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| Re: Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming? [message #316641 is a reply to message #316588] |
Mon, 18 April 2016 16:39 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1604172018450.21819@darkstar.example.org...
>
> [snip...] [snip...]
> [snip...]
>
> Most people are "really good" at being part of the team, but that doesn't
> make them good thinkers or anything else.
>
If you are good at being part of the team, that makes you a "team player".
The things that us nerds (I think most in <a.f.c.> could be classed as
nerds) *like* to forget is that we live in a society... a social context.
Societal rules and conventions do *not* always make logical sense and are
*not* always "fair", but ISTM that we are forced to find a way to interface
with society and "fit in" somehow.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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