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Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #317773 is a reply to message #317742] Mon, 09 May 2016 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2016-05-09, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>> On 2016-05-08, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>>> On 08/05/2016 14:08, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>> JimP wrote:
>>>> > On Sat, 7 May 2016 18:23:58 -0500, "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I do not want penises in a restroom designated for women.
>>>>
>>>> /BAH
>>>>
>>>
>>> To a large extent it is the other way round. Feminists wanting to jump
>>> the queue in the ladies.
>>
>>
>> From years ago, at rock concerts, girls desperate to not wet themselves.
>> Girls seem to spend more time per `operation'.
>
> There's more to clean and there is a big mess once a month.
>
>> Very funny from this years
>> Cheltenham race meeting, a very crass Irishman (easily identifiable) pours
>> beer down throat, looks around, shrugs, removes surplus liquids into the
>> recently full pint glass.
>
> Then what did he do with the glass?
>
> /BAH

What else?
Colour OK
Head OK
Taste OK, after having a few pints

There is a video of it, will try to find


--
greymaus

iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #317774 is a reply to message #317753] Mon, 09 May 2016 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2016-05-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 8 May 2016 16:56:18 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> From years ago, at rock concerts, girls desperate to not wet themselves.
>> Girls seem to spend more time per `operation'. Very funny from this years
>> Cheltenham race meeting, a very crass Irishman (easily identifiable) pours
>> beer down throat, looks around,
>
> Recycling ?
>

How memory forgets things;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3493923/Feeling-litt le-flush-fellas-Football-stars-friends-hit-new-low-Cheltenha m-one-appears-relieve-glass-throw-box-female-companions-bare -chests.html


--
greymaus

iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #317777 is a reply to message #317618] Mon, 09 May 2016 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
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On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 5:25:52 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:

> The President has no authority to issue such a "ruling". What he can do
> is withhold Federal assistance under certain circumstances. If the
> states tell him to take his assistance and shove it up his butt there's
> little he can do about it except break out the Vaseline.

In practice, when the Feds demand that a state or organization do
something, they gotta do it. If the Feds withhold funding and the
recipient doesn't care, the Feds will simply find another way to
compel compliance.

There have been cases where some states and some organizations chose
to forego funding to avoid being forced to do something they didn't
want to do. I think one case was a college that didn't want to submit
certain paperwork. IIRC, a state case had to do with some road funding.
Anyway, the feds found an 'end run' around the issue and forced the
parties to comply.

The Federal government is extremely power. Usually this works
out well, such as forcing southern states to recognize blacks
as human beings with certain rights. But other times the
feds push too far.


Along these lines the newspaper had a commentary about the Fourteenth
Amendment. I am far from a constitutional scholar, but IMHO, the
courts have gone way too far over the years expanding 'protections'
of the 14th Amendment to situations where it should not have applied.
http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20160508_Commentary__14 th_Amendment_laid_foundation_of_civil_liberties.html
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #317786 is a reply to message #317774] Mon, 09 May 2016 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 9 May 2016 19:08:56 GMT
mausg@mail.com wrote:

> On 2016-05-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 8 May 2016 16:56:18 GMT
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> From years ago, at rock concerts, girls desperate to not wet
>>> themselves. Girls seem to spend more time per `operation'. Very funny
>>> from this years Cheltenham race meeting, a very crass Irishman (easily
>>> identifiable) pours beer down throat, looks around,
>>
>> Recycling ?
>>
>
> How memory forgets things;
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3493923/Feeling-litt le-flush-fellas-Football-stars-friends-hit-new-low-Cheltenha m-one-appears-relieve-glass-throw-box-female-companions-bare -chests.html

I tend not to notice things like Cheltenham.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #317850 is a reply to message #317773] Tue, 10 May 2016 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2016-05-09, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:

> On 2016-05-09, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Very funny from this years
>>> Cheltenham race meeting, a very crass Irishman (easily identifiable) pours
>>> beer down throat, looks around, shrugs, removes surplus liquids into the
>>> recently full pint glass.
>>
>> Then what did he do with the glass?

Reminds me of a cartoon in National Lampoon years ago.
Or the Soldier in White in Catch-22.

> What else?
> Colour OK
> Head OK
> Taste OK, after having a few pints
>
> There is a video of it, will try to find

Then there was the one about the hospital patient who was given
some apple juice in a container much like the urine sample container
he also had on his table. The nurse came in, picked up the apple
juice thinking it was urine, and remarked, "It looks a bit cloudy
today." The patient replied, "OK, let's run it through again,"
and downed it.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #317861 is a reply to message #317786] Tue, 10 May 2016 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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Senior Member
On 2016-05-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 9 May 2016 19:08:56 GMT
> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>
>> On 2016-05-09, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 8 May 2016 16:56:18 GMT
>>> mausg@mail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> From years ago, at rock concerts, girls desperate to not wet
>>>> themselves. Girls seem to spend more time per `operation'. Very funny
>>>> from this years Cheltenham race meeting, a very crass Irishman (easily
>>>> identifiable) pours beer down throat, looks around,
>>>
>>> Recycling ?
>>>
>>
>> How memory forgets things;
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3493923/Feeling-litt le-flush-fellas-Football-stars-friends-hit-new-low-Cheltenha m-one-appears-relieve-glass-throw-box-female-companions-bare -chests.html
>
> I tend not to notice things like Cheltenham.
>

eveen GCHQ?... around 12,0000 employees, I was once told. Did the crossword.

--
greymaus

iD|marrA Raa|fLa
Ireland
Re: Qbasic [message #318116 is a reply to message #316823] Mon, 16 May 2016 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
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In article <nfbb4l$fvi$1@dont-email.me>,
"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message
> news:nf9iqr12cba@news1.newsguy.com...
>> On 2016-04-21, Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:55:31 -0400, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> Whatever is was previously or has become, Christmas is the celebration
>>>> of
>>>> the birth of Christ. To take the christian part out of it and replace
>>>> it
>>>
>>> One could just as easily state that whatever the winter holiday
>>> was or has become, it is the celebration of Saturnalia.
>>
>> If only it were that innocent...
>>
>> Chestnuts now on sale in aisle five,
>> Jack Frost replicas below.
>> Children's wear has a big red-light sale
>> So kids can dress like Eskimos. (Excuse me, Inuit.)
>>
>> Everybody knows fake holly, plastic mistletoe
>> Will keep the profit margins bright.
>> Tiny tots, LEDs all aglow
>> Await an iPhone 6 [1] tonight.
>>
>> You know that Santa's on his way.
>> He's bringing bills that you'll take all next year to pay.
>> And every mother's child is going to try
>> To see Buzz Lightyear: can he really fly?
>>
>> And so I say this economic prayer
>> To Future Shop and Wal-Mart too.
>> Though it's been said many times, many ways,
>> Merry Spendfest to you.
>>
>> [Cash registers play Jingle Bells]
>>
>> [1] When I wrote this, the iPhone 5 was current.
>> Gotta keep up to date, y'know.
>>
>
> This is a "send up" or "take off" on "The Christmas Song". "The Christmas
> Song" was written by Mel Torme. Mel Torme was Jewish when he was alive.

And being dead he may be a Mormon?!?

> "White Christmas" and "Easter Parade" were written by Irving Berlin, also
> Jewish.

--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318359 is a reply to message #317532] Sun, 22 May 2016 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
In article <voipibde7qehfrvtq686vlifkmen905ceq@4ax.com>,
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:

> The Fed is upermost, this was established between 1860 and 1865. But
> there are politicians and judges in the South who act like the South
> won.

"A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still."

And in high school one of the teachers told me that the South was a
nation within a nation, sort of like the Kurds in Turkey.

--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318360 is a reply to message #317566] Sun, 22 May 2016 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
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In article <nidvvc-82r.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>,
Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:

> In article <20160506181019.5e6388451096bba8b09d9411@eircom.net>,
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 May 2016 11:50:36 -0500
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Fed is upermost, this was established between 1860 and 1865. But
>>> there are politicians and judges in the South who act like the South
>>> won.
>>
>> Well there are those anomalies where states have legalised things
>> which are not legal at the federal level - marijuana figures prominently in
>> the list of such anomalies but I don't think it accounts for all of them.
>> At first sight it seems the state governments could be convicted for
>> incitement, and possibly for conspiracy, to break federal laws - but there's
>> no sign of this happening. From this distance it all seems a bit vague and
>> strange.
>
> It is putting some pressure on the most interesting confict in the
> current US constitution. The federal government was purposely designed
> as a rather weak entity; but it has grown over the centuries.
>
> Mostly this has taken the form of slow creep. Make one or two
> small changes, and let development take it's course.
>
> The interstate commerce clause is the most important source of
> such creep.
>
> There has been very few cases about the core of this. So, frankly
> I wonder if the FEDs are not too anxious about rocking this
> boat too much.
>
> -- mrr

There *is* the principle of letting the states be laboratories.

--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318362 is a reply to message #317850] Sun, 22 May 2016 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
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Registered: December 2011
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In article <ngtagj02m09@news6.newsguy.com>,
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

>
> Then there was the one about the hospital patient who was given
> some apple juice in a container much like the urine sample container
> he also had on his table. The nurse came in, picked up the apple
> juice thinking it was urine, and remarked, "It looks a bit cloudy
> today." The patient replied, "OK, let's run it through again,"
> and downed it.

Good trick if you want to be transferred to the looney bin.

--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318365 is a reply to message #317559] Sun, 22 May 2016 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
In article <dp4ogtF3o4kU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's what Ho Chi Min did too. Initially he attempted
> to get assistance from the US, essentially because his
> perception was that they were much more economically
> important than anyone else at the end of the war and
> because he liked their political approach too. When the
> US essentially ignored him, he had no alternative but to
> see if the USSR could help instead.

He looked at the map. Dragon to the north and a traditional enemy,
US and offshore power with no economic interests.

And how did we end up in on the wrong side of a war of national
liberation?! O well, we have a record of popping up tyyrrants all over
the globe.

Now we need the Vietnamese as allies against Chinese expansionism.
Fortunately they are clear sighted enough to recognize that they need
an alliance with us.

The Vietnamese even cleared up that little problem we caused by bombing
Cambodia. Oh yes, the incident our peerless leaders staged to start the
war reminded me "Great White Father speak with forked tongue.".

Trust a used car salesman before a banker and a banker before a priest,
don't trust a politician.

--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318368 is a reply to message #318365] Sun, 22 May 2016 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
> He looked at the map. Dragon to the north and a traditional enemy,
> US and offshore power with no economic interests.
>
> And how did we end up in on the wrong side of a war of national
> liberation?! O well, we have a record of popping up tyyrrants all over
> the globe.
>
> Now we need the Vietnamese as allies against Chinese expansionism.
> Fortunately they are clear sighted enough to recognize that they need
> an alliance with us.
>
> The Vietnamese even cleared up that little problem we caused by bombing
> Cambodia. Oh yes, the incident our peerless leaders staged to start the
> war reminded me "Great White Father speak with forked tongue.".
>
> Trust a used car salesman before a banker and a banker before a priest,
> don't trust a politician.

there are recent references that our bombing in vietnam is still killing
people today. however there is also what we did in laos.

McNamara had been LaMay's staff planning the fire-bombing of German
and Japanese cities (disclaimer: one of my wife's uncles was on
LeMay's staff in the 50s). After WW2, McNamara went to the auto
industry but came back as SECDEF for Vietnam, where Laos becomes the
most bombed country in the history of the world (more tons than
dropped in WW2 on Germany & Japan combined)
http://legaciesofwar.org/about-laos/secret-war-laos/

From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than two million tons of
ordnance on Laos during 580,000 bombing missions -- equal to a
planeload of bombs every 8 minutes, 24-hours a day, for 9 years --
making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history

.... snip ...

Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
country.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo

recent refs:
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#28 Kill Chain: The Rise of High Tech Assassins
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#38 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ?
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#89 Your earliest dream?
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#13 Fully Restored WWII Fighter Plane Up for Auction
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#42 No, the F-35 Can't Fight at Long Range, Either
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#52 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#77 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#87 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#55 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#60 For those who like to regress to their youth? :-)
http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016d.html#8 What Does School Really Teach Children

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318370 is a reply to message #318368] Sun, 22 May 2016 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Walter Bushell is currently offline  Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:

> Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
> deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
> country.
> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo

Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.

--
To terrify children with the image of hell,
to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?
Christopher Hitchens
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318372 is a reply to message #318370] Sun, 22 May 2016 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <proto-69FF8F.14362222052016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
says...
>
> In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>
>> Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
>> deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
>> country.
>> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo
>
> Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.

And it shows that politicians are incapable of learning from history.
Bombing without occupation has never worked and yet Obama is once again
trying it. The Air Force really should be put back under the Army.
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318376 is a reply to message #318372] Sun, 22 May 2016 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: <hgtr

"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.31abee6c121c421998a1c5@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <proto-69FF8F.14362222052016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
> says...
>>
>> In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
>>> deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
>>> country.
>>> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo
>>
>> Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.
>
> And it shows that politicians are incapable of learning from history.
> Bombing without occupation has never worked

Worked fine with the home islands of Japan.

> and yet Obama is once again trying it.

Because he isnt actually stupid enough to do another Iraq or Afghanistan.

> The Air Force really should be put back under the Army.

Even sillier than you usually manage.
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318377 is a reply to message #318376] Sun, 22 May 2016 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <dqesigFkma9U1@mid.individual.net>, hgtr@nospam.com says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.31abee6c121c421998a1c5@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <proto-69FF8F.14362222052016@news.panix.com>, proto@panix.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
>>>> deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
>>>> country.
>>>> http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo
>>>
>>> Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.
>>
>> And it shows that politicians are incapable of learning from history.
>> Bombing without occupation has never worked
>
> Worked fine with the home islands of Japan.

Took destroying every city on the islands, destroying their Navy at sea,
destroying their armies on the ground on the surroundind islands,
shooting their air force out of the sky, and the Russians putting boots
on the ground to get there. It wasn't a matter of just flying over and
dropping bombs and they quit. And Obama is not using nukes.

The notion that Japan just rolled over because a few bombs were dropped
on them is one of the most pernicious lies in military history.

>> and yet Obama is once again trying it.
>
> Because he isnt actually stupid enough to do another Iraq or Afghanistan.

What was stupid about it? We lost fewer soldiers in Iraq and
Afghanistan than we did cops at home during the same time period.

>> The Air Force really should be put back under the Army.
>
> Even sillier than you usually manage.

<plonk>
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318379 is a reply to message #318377] Sun, 22 May 2016 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Jim Simon

"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.31ac10772b43a1a098a1c7@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <dqesigFkma9U1@mid.individual.net>, hgtr@nospam.com says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.31abee6c121c421998a1c5@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> In article <proto-69FF8F.14362222052016@news.panix.com>,
>>> proto@panix.com
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
>>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
>>>> > deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
>>>> > country.
>>>> > http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo
>>>>
>>>> Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.
>>>
>>> And it shows that politicians are incapable of learning from history.
>>> Bombing without occupation has never worked
>>
>> Worked fine with the home islands of Japan.
>
> Took destroying every city on the islands, destroying their Navy at sea,
> destroying their armies on the ground on the surroundind islands,
> shooting their air force out of the sky, and the Russians putting boots
> on the ground to get there. It wasn't a matter of just flying over and
> dropping bombs and they quit. And Obama is not using nukes.
>
> The notion that Japan just rolled over because a few bombs were dropped
> on them is one of the most pernicious lies in military history.
>
>>> and yet Obama is once again trying it.
>>
>> Because he isnt actually stupid enough to do another Iraq or Afghanistan.
>
> What was stupid about it?

It achieved nothing and pissed trillions against
the wall to no useful purpose what so ever.

> We lost fewer soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan than
> we did cops at home during the same time period.

Irrelevant. Cost vastly more than was spent on cops at home.

>>> The Air Force really should be put back under the Army.
>>
>> Even sillier than you usually manage.
>
> <plonk>
>
>
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318380 is a reply to message #318365] Sun, 22 May 2016 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: dhy287

"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-12732D.10035322052016@news.panix.com...
> In article <dp4ogtF3o4kU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Simo" <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what Ho Chi Min did too. Initially he attempted
>> to get assistance from the US, essentially because his
>> perception was that they were much more economically
>> important than anyone else at the end of the war and
>> because he liked their political approach too. When the
>> US essentially ignored him, he had no alternative but to
>> see if the USSR could help instead.
>
> He looked at the map. Dragon to the north and a traditional enemy,
> US and offshore power with no economic interests.

Nothing to do with any map, he'd noticed that the US had
won the war and was attempting to discourage the colonial
powers from re-establishing their old colonies.

> And how did we end up in on the wrong side of a war of national
> liberation?!

It was actually a civil war by the time the US got involved.

> O well, we have a record of popping up tyyrrants all over the globe.
>
> Now we need the Vietnamese as allies against Chinese expansionism.

Nope. They are irrelevant to that.

> Fortunately they are clear sighted enough to recognize that they need
> an alliance with us.

They are indeed.

> The Vietnamese even cleared up that little problem we caused by bombing
> Cambodia. Oh yes, the incident our peerless leaders staged to start the
> war reminded me "Great White Father speak with forked tongue.".
>
> Trust a used car salesman before a banker and a banker before a priest,
> don't trust a politician.
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318381 is a reply to message #318362] Sun, 22 May 2016 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: dhy287

"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-8F7265.09474822052016@news.panix.com...
> In article <ngtagj02m09@news6.newsguy.com>,
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> Then there was the one about the hospital patient who was given
>> some apple juice in a container much like the urine sample container
>> he also had on his table. The nurse came in, picked up the apple
>> juice thinking it was urine, and remarked, "It looks a bit cloudy
>> today." The patient replied, "OK, let's run it through again,"
>> and downed it.
>
> Good trick if you want to be transferred to the looney bin.

Loony bins don’t work like that anymore.
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318383 is a reply to message #318379] Sun, 22 May 2016 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <dqf2blFllkrU1@mid.individual.net>, 887jas@gmail.com says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.31ac10772b43a1a098a1c7@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <dqesigFkma9U1@mid.individual.net>, hgtr@nospam.com says...
>>>
>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.31abee6c121c421998a1c5@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> In article <proto-69FF8F.14362222052016@news.panix.com>,
>>>> proto@panix.com
>>>> says...
>>>> >
>>>> > In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
>>>> > Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing the
>>>> > > deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most bombed-out
>>>> > > country.
>>>> > > http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo
>>>> >
>>>> > Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.
>>>>
>>>> And it shows that politicians are incapable of learning from history.
>>>> Bombing without occupation has never worked
>>>
>>> Worked fine with the home islands of Japan.
>>
>> Took destroying every city on the islands, destroying their Navy at sea,
>> destroying their armies on the ground on the surroundind islands,
>> shooting their air force out of the sky, and the Russians putting boots
>> on the ground to get there. It wasn't a matter of just flying over and
>> dropping bombs and they quit. And Obama is not using nukes.
>>
>> The notion that Japan just rolled over because a few bombs were dropped
>> on them is one of the most pernicious lies in military history.
>>
>>>> and yet Obama is once again trying it.
>>>
>>> Because he isnt actually stupid enough to do another Iraq or Afghanistan.
>>
>> What was stupid about it?
>
> It achieved nothing and pissed trillions against
> the wall to no useful purpose what so ever.

What achieved nothing was pulling out before a stable government was in
place. That's what happened in Viet Nam too.

>> We lost fewer soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan than
>> we did cops at home during the same time period.
>
> Irrelevant. Cost vastly more than was spent on cops at home.

So? Gave a lot of people jobs that they don't have anymore. Most of
the money spent on war gets spent inside the US you know giving
Americans jobs.
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318393 is a reply to message #318383] Sun, 22 May 2016 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: dhy287

"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.31ac2d6d71a46ba298a1c8@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <dqf2blFllkrU1@mid.individual.net>, 887jas@gmail.com says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.31ac10772b43a1a098a1c7@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> In article <dqesigFkma9U1@mid.individual.net>, hgtr@nospam.com says...
>>>>
>>>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:MPG.31abee6c121c421998a1c5@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> > In article <proto-69FF8F.14362222052016@news.panix.com>,
>>>> > proto@panix.com
>>>> > says...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In article <87futa13o2.fsf@garlic.com>,
>>>> >> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Watch the US Drop 2.5 Million Tons of Bombs on Laos; Picturing
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > deadly legacy of America's secret war in the world's most
>>>> >> > bombed-out
>>>> >> > country.
>>>> >> > http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/laos-vietnam-war -us-bombing-uxo
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Secret war? Phred the terrorist knew all about it.
>>>> >
>>>> > And it shows that politicians are incapable of learning from
>>>> > history.
>>>> > Bombing without occupation has never worked
>>>>
>>>> Worked fine with the home islands of Japan.
>>>
>>> Took destroying every city on the islands, destroying their Navy at
>>> sea,
>>> destroying their armies on the ground on the surroundind islands,
>>> shooting their air force out of the sky, and the Russians putting boots
>>> on the ground to get there. It wasn't a matter of just flying over and
>>> dropping bombs and they quit. And Obama is not using nukes.
>>>
>>> The notion that Japan just rolled over because a few bombs were dropped
>>> on them is one of the most pernicious lies in military history.
>>>
>>>> > and yet Obama is once again trying it.
>>>>
>>>> Because he isnt actually stupid enough to do another Iraq or
>>>> Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> What was stupid about it?
>>
>> It achieved nothing and pissed trillions against
>> the wall to no useful purpose what so ever.

> What achieved nothing was pulling out before a stable government
> was in place. That's what happened in Viet Nam too.

Stable government was never going to happen with
any of those no matter how long the US had stayed.

Same with Libya and Syria too.

>>> We lost fewer soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan than
>>> we did cops at home during the same time period.
>>
>> Irrelevant. Cost vastly more than was spent on cops at home.

> So?

So it was a complete waste of lives and money.

> Gave a lot of people jobs that they don't have anymore.

But with the unemployment rate in the US
one of the lowest of the majors in the world,
it makes no sense to be pissing trillions against
the wall that way to only get that result.

> Most of the money spent on war gets spent
> inside the US you know giving Americans jobs.

Would have made a lot more sense to spend a
lot less and create a lot more jobs doing stuff like
infrastructure projects like highways in the US.
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318402 is a reply to message #318381] Mon, 23 May 2016 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mausg is currently offline  mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2016-05-23, Simo <dhy287@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:proto-8F7265.09474822052016@news.panix.com...
>> In article <ngtagj02m09@news6.newsguy.com>,
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Then there was the one about the hospital patient who was given
>>> some apple juice in a container much like the urine sample container
>>> he also had on his table. The nurse came in, picked up the apple
>>> juice thinking it was urine, and remarked, "It looks a bit cloudy
>>> today." The patient replied, "OK, let's run it through again,"
>>> and downed it.
>>
>> Good trick if you want to be transferred to the looney bin.
>
> Loony bins don?t work like that anymore.
>

Presuming this is Speedy, an authority on rge subject!


--
greymaus.eircom.ie
.
.
....
Re: AM radio Qbasic [message #318488 is a reply to message #318359] Tue, 24 May 2016 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2016-05-22, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <voipibde7qehfrvtq686vlifkmen905ceq@4ax.com>,
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Fed is upermost, this was established between 1860 and 1865. But
>> there are politicians and judges in the South who act like the South
>> won.
>
> "A man convinced against his will
> Is of the same opinion still."
>
> And in high school one of the teachers told me that the South was a
> nation within a nation, sort of like the Kurds in Turkey.

Or Quebec.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
Re: Qbasic [message #406749 is a reply to message #312246] Sat, 27 March 2021 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> In any case, nobody has complained about the removal of vm86 mode
> in 64-bit other than you.

Well, maybe few people are _still_ complaining, but I'm sure that at the time
64-bit versions of Windows XP were first introduced, many people were unhappy
that they couldn't run many of their older programs any more.

DosBox and Qemu aren't really fully adequate solutions.

It should be just possible to install and run old Windows 3.1 programs, or old
Windows 95 programs with 16-bit installers, on modern computers running
Windows and have them work perfectly and seamlessly. Why is that so hard
to understand?

Since the 286, which didn't allow backwards compatibility from protected mode,
was seen to be a mistake, which was corrected in the 386, AMD and Intel should
both have known better. Since true 32-bit programs can run _either_ on machines
that are in 64-bit mode, able to run 64-bit and 32-bit software, or in 32-bit mode, and
able to run 32-bit and 16-bit software, the operating system should be able, without
rebooting, to switch between those two modes at will. Naturally, if an interrupt happens
while in 32-bit mode, a switch to 64-bit mode would likely have to take place,
but there's no fundamental reason why that should even be a problem.

Everything gets restored when you return from an interrupt. So you have a status bit
for that...

John Savard
Re: Qbasic [message #406756 is a reply to message #406749] Sat, 27 March 2021 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2021-03-27, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> In any case, nobody has complained about the removal of vm86 mode
>> in 64-bit other than you.
>
> Well, maybe few people are _still_ complaining, but I'm sure that at the time
> 64-bit versions of Windows XP were first introduced, many people were unhappy
> that they couldn't run many of their older programs any more.

I'm still upset that good old LIST.COM won't run on newer systems.
(I run 32-bit XP under VirtualBox, so I'm OK there, though.)

> DosBox and Qemu aren't really fully adequate solutions.
>
> It should be just possible to install and run old Windows 3.1 programs, or old
> Windows 95 programs with 16-bit installers, on modern computers running
> Windows and have them work perfectly and seamlessly. Why is that so hard
> to understand?

Two words: planned obsolescence.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana
Re: Qbasic [message #406766 is a reply to message #406756] Sat, 27 March 2021 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> I'm still upset that good old LIST.COM won't run on newer systems.
> (I run 32-bit XP under VirtualBox, so I'm OK there, though.)

It runs on my Pentium 4 desktops under DOS but not under
Linux->X->DOESMU. Annoying. Haven't tried it on my newer laptop.

Way back when I moved up to DOS from CP/M, I was also annoyed that
DBASE II from my Osborne woudn't run under a CP/M emulator. Only bit
of CP/M I wanted to preserve but apparently Adam coded in some
clever tricks to address the Osborne I hardware directly that an
emulator couldn't trap and implement.

> Two words: planned obsolescence.

Clinging doggedly to the trailing edge of technology...

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Qbasic [message #406770 is a reply to message #406749] Sat, 27 March 2021 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: antispam

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> In any case, nobody has complained about the removal of vm86 mode
>> in 64-bit other than you.
>
> Well, maybe few people are _still_ complaining, but I'm sure that at the time
> 64-bit versions of Windows XP were first introduced, many people were unhappy
> that they couldn't run many of their older programs any more.
>
> DosBox and Qemu aren't really fully adequate solutions.
>
> It should be just possible to install and run old Windows 3.1 programs, or old
> Windows 95 programs with 16-bit installers, on modern computers running
> Windows and have them work perfectly and seamlessly. Why is that so hard
> to understand?
>
> Since the 286, which didn't allow backwards compatibility from protected mode,
> was seen to be a mistake, which was corrected in the 386, AMD and Intel should
> both have known better. Since true 32-bit programs can run _either_ on machines
> that are in 64-bit mode, able to run 64-bit and 32-bit software, or in 32-bit mode, and
> able to run 32-bit and 16-bit software, the operating system should be able, without
> rebooting, to switch between those two modes at will. Naturally, if an interrupt happens
> while in 32-bit mode, a switch to 64-bit mode would likely have to take place,
> but there's no fundamental reason why that should even be a problem.

So you should appreciate ingenuity of AMD engineers: processor contains
all hardware needed to run 16-bit VM programs (they had to include it
to be 100% compatible with existing 32-bit processors), yet in practice
you can not use it (since you want 64-bit operating system).

Of course, 16-bit VM is liabilty for Intel and AMD and they would
like to get rid of it. 286 showed them that they can not kill
16-bit mode in one step, so they invented more subtle solution.
Microsoft is helpful too: AFAIK 16-bit protected mode is compatible
with running 64-bit OS at hardware level, but Microsoft removed
support for 16-bit code from 64-bit OS, so all 16-bit codes
will sooner or later vanish. Well, 16-bit support is also liabilty
for Microsoft and they felt that dropping support will have
no bad effect on them (and it looks that they are right).

I like idea of being able to run old code. OTOH, it is hard to
recall when I used 16-bit programs. Around 2004 I did some
testing for compatiblity of 32-bit programs with DOS extenders,
which naturally involved running 16-bit programs. But I run
them only to make sure that my code was usable by people
who run DOS as their OS. Starting from 1991 my PC was
32-bit and from about 1993 I used 32-bit sysetm (Linux)
almost exclusively. So 16-bit x86 for me is mostly old
lore and having to use old hardware or emulator does not
look so bad...

--
Waldek Hebisch
Re: Qbasic [message #406777 is a reply to message #406766] Sun, 28 March 2021 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 27 Mar 2021 18:00:43 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> I'm still upset that good old LIST.COM won't run on newer systems.
>> (I run 32-bit XP under VirtualBox, so I'm OK there, though.)
>
> It runs on my Pentium 4 desktops under DOS but not under
> Linux->X->DOESMU. Annoying. Haven't tried it on my newer laptop.
>
> Way back when I moved up to DOS from CP/M, I was also annoyed that
> DBASE II from my Osborne woudn't run under a CP/M emulator. Only bit
> of CP/M I wanted to preserve but apparently Adam coded in some
> clever tricks to address the Osborne I hardware directly that an
> emulator couldn't trap and implement.

May be due to different floppy formats?

With the same emulator (MAME) I cannot load Kaypro floppies in an
Osborne, or Osborne floppies in an Kaypro. But they (used to) work in
their respective system.
--
Andreas
Re: Qbasic [message #406799 is a reply to message #406749] Sun, 28 March 2021 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> In any case, nobody has complained about the removal of vm86 mode
>> in 64-bit other than you.
>
> Well, maybe few people are _still_ complaining, but I'm sure that at the time
> 64-bit versions of Windows XP were first introduced, many people were unhappy
> that they couldn't run many of their older programs any more.
>
> DosBox and Qemu aren't really fully adequate solutions.
>
> It should be just possible to install and run old Windows 3.1 programs, or old
> Windows 95 programs with 16-bit installers, on modern computers running
> Windows and have them work perfectly and seamlessly. Why is that so hard
> to understand?
>
> Since the 286, which didn't allow backwards compatibility from protected mode,
> was seen to be a mistake, which was corrected in the 386, AMD and Intel should
> both have known better. Since true 32-bit programs can run _either_ on machines
> that are in 64-bit mode, able to run 64-bit and 32-bit software, or in 32-bit mode, and
> able to run 32-bit and 16-bit software, the operating system should be able, without
> rebooting, to switch between those two modes at will. Naturally, if an interrupt happens
> while in 32-bit mode, a switch to 64-bit mode would likely have to take place,
> but there's no fundamental reason why that should even be a problem.

The opposite of OS/2, which runs interrupts in 16-bit mode.

>
> Everything gets restored when you return from an interrupt. So you have a status bit
> for that...
>
> John Savard
>



--
Pete
Re: Qbasic [message #406820 is a reply to message #311288] Mon, 29 March 2021 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 01:01:04 -0500, Dave Garland wrote:
>
> On 3/28/2021 5:37 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:57:16 -0500, Dave Garland wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, there were a couple of commercial format converters. I used to
>>> use one called UNIFORM. But IIRC, the dBase II that Osborne bundled
>>> with their computers may have been gimmicked to prevent running on
>>> other machines. Otherwise, nobody would have bought the pay version :)
>> But the Osborne Office-Suite was for my knowledge only available
>> when you
>> bought an Osborne computer. You couldn't just buy it elsewhere to run it
>> on a Kaypro or other Z80 based computers.
>>
> I don't remember the "Office Suite". IIRC all the programs came on
> separate discs and weren't integrated in any way..

Don't know where I got this term from now. I thought Wikipedia, but cannot
confirm that anymore. Might have it from
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundled_software> which states:

| A software bundle might include a word processor, spreadsheet, and
| presentation program into a single office suite.

and later on the same page:

| Early microcomputer companies varied in their decision to bundle
| software. BYTE in 1984 observed that "Kaypro apparently has
| tremendous buying and bargaining power", noting that the Kaypro 10
| came with both WordStar and Perfect Writer, plus "two spelling
| checkers, two spreadsheets, two communications programs and three
| versions of BASIC". Stating that year that a computer that weighs 30
| pounds "really isn't very portable", Creative Computing concluded
| that "the main reason that the Osborne was a success was not that it
| was transportable, but that it came with a pile of bundled
| software".

> My impression was that Osborne went around and bought rights to
> whatever they could get cheaply, to throw in. The early O2 I knew came
> with several dialects of Basic, a PERT program, WordStar, dBaseII,
> SuperCalc, and probably a few other things. Over time, the bundle
> seemed to change. After Oz went down, I bought an O2 that was probably
> assembled from leftover parts, I think it came with dBII but don't
> remember for sure (I might have lifted a copy from the other Oz). I did
> buy an MSDOS copy of dBII for another client.

Not sure if I have the complete "office suite", but the directory here
for the Osborne lists

OS1MDM7.IMD OSB06_Adventure.TD0
OSB14_Basic_Games.TD0 OSBROM.IMD OSUTLSRC.IMD
history OSB01_CPM_System.TD0 OSB09_CPM_System.TD0
OSB15_Games.TD0 OSE-CPMA.TD0
OCCCBIOS.IMD OSB03_Wordstar.TD0 OSB10_Wordstar.TD0
OSB22_Cbasic_Mbasic.TD0 OSE-CPMB.TD0
OCCROM.IMD OSB04_Cbasic_Mbasic.TD0 OSB11_Supercalc.TD0
OSB28_Supercalc.TD0 OSE-CPMC.TD0
OCCUTIL.IMD OSB05_Dbase_II.TD0 OSB12_Dbase_II.TD0
OSBIOSSR.IMD OSROM13.IMD
--
Andreas

https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
Re: Qbasic [message #406871 is a reply to message #311288] Wed, 31 March 2021 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usenet is currently offline  usenet
Messages: 556
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 01:01:04 -0500, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
wrote:
> On 3/28/2021 5:37 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:57:16 -0500, Dave Garland wrote:
>>>
>>> On 3/28/2021 4:57 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> On 27 Mar 2021 18:00:43 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>>>
>>>> >Way back when I moved up to DOS from CP/M, I was also annoyed that
>>>> >DBASE II from my Osborne woudn't run under a CP/M emulator. Only bit
>>>> >of CP/M I wanted to preserve but apparently Adam coded in some
>>>> >clever tricks to address the Osborne I hardware directly that an
>>>> >emulator couldn't trap and implement.
>>>> May be due to different floppy formats?
>>>> With the same emulator (MAME) I cannot load Kaypro floppies in an
>>>> Osborne, or Osborne floppies in an Kaypro. But they (used to) work in
>>>> their respective system.
>>>>
>>> Yes, there were a couple of commercial format converters. I used to
>>> use one called UNIFORM. But IIRC, the dBase II that Osborne bundled
>>> with their computers may have been gimmicked to prevent running on
>>> other machines. Otherwise, nobody would have bought the pay version :)
>>
>> But the Osborne Office-Suite was for my knowledge only available when you
>> bought an Osborne computer. You couldn't just buy it elsewhere to run it
>> on a Kaypro or other Z80 based computers.
>>
> I don't remember the "Office Suite". IIRC all the programs came on
> separate discs and weren't integrated in any way.. My impression was
> that Osborne went around and bought rights to whatever they could get
> cheaply, to throw in.

I don't think there were any "integrated" office suites in the time of the
Osborne. But bundling was the term of art, and it refered more to what was
included when you bought the base machine. "But wait -- there's more... all at
one low price." Some manufacturers and/or dealers would add a primitive menu
system so that novice customers could start the different applications while
knowing next to nothing about CP/M commands.
Re: Qbasic [message #406876 is a reply to message #406871] Wed, 31 March 2021 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 06:44:03 GMT, Questor wrote:
>
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 01:01:04 -0500, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't remember the "Office Suite". IIRC all the programs came on
>> separate discs and weren't integrated in any way.. My impression was
>> that Osborne went around and bought rights to whatever they could get
>> cheaply, to throw in.
>
> I don't think there were any "integrated" office suites in the time of the
> Osborne. But bundling was the term of art, and it refered more to what was
> included when you bought the base machine. "But wait -- there's more... all at
> one low price." Some manufacturers and/or dealers would add a primitive menu
> system so that novice customers could start the different applications while
> knowing next to nothing about CP/M commands.

That might have been crowned, at least at the European market, with the
Amstrad PCW from 1985 to 1998 (making the probably last commercial
available Z80 computer in 1998 running CP/M). The ads targeted
technophobes to get into computing <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PCW>.

All machines came with monitor and most models had a printer. Some early
models had an odd 3" floppy drive though.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
Re: Qbasic [message #406894 is a reply to message #406766] Wed, 31 March 2021 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usenet is currently offline  usenet
Messages: 556
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 27 Mar 2021 18:00:43 -0300, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>> I'm still upset that good old LIST.COM won't run on newer systems.
>> (I run 32-bit XP under VirtualBox, so I'm OK there, though.)
>
> It runs on my Pentium 4 desktops under DOS but not under
> Linux->X->DOESMU. Annoying. Haven't tried it on my newer laptop.
>
> Way back when I moved up to DOS from CP/M, I was also annoyed that
> DBASE II from my Osborne woudn't run under a CP/M emulator. Only bit
> of CP/M I wanted to preserve but apparently Adam coded in some
> clever tricks to address the Osborne I hardware directly that an
> emulator couldn't trap and implement.
>
>> Two words: planned obsolescence.

The scheduled obsolescence these days is mostly with the browser, and
specifically the encryption/security certificates. Even the most anodyne web
sites use https today (thanks to Eric Snowden). The certificates have
expiration dates, and despite having a mechnism to import new certificates,
the only obvious way to get them is to upgrade the browser. Eventually the
new browser version requires an upgrade to operating system. The user
is increasingly forced into upgrading their OS or faces losing access to web
they may need. There are also the whizzy new features that web site designers
start adopting; the results are similar.


> Clinging doggedly to the trailing edge of technology...

With gusto. One of my machines is older with older software. I'm happy with
it -- it does everything I want, it's configured the way I like, and I can get
tasks completed with no backsass. It's use for web browsing is extremely
limited, but otherwise is one of my main "daily drivers."

Circling back to this thread's title, one of the old pieces of software on that
older machine that sees regular and frequent use is... the version of Qbasic
that came with MS-DOS 5.0. I use it to quickly and easily write smallish
programs for complex calculations, solving word puzzles, making graphic
gee-gaws, and even file utilities. It has the usual structured programming
flow control constructs and a fairly complete set of functions for math, string
manipulation, graphics, and file I/O. The big drawback of the free version is
that programs cannot be compiled, only interpreted. (There was a pay version
of Qbasic with more features, including the ability to create a stand-alone
executable image.)
Re: Qbasic [message #406902 is a reply to message #406894] Thu, 01 April 2021 02:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2021-03-31, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:

> On 27 Mar 2021 18:00:43 -0300, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> I'm still upset that good old LIST.COM won't run on newer systems.
>>> (I run 32-bit XP under VirtualBox, so I'm OK there, though.)
>>
>> It runs on my Pentium 4 desktops under DOS but not under
>> Linux->X->DOESMU. Annoying. Haven't tried it on my newer laptop.
>>
>> Way back when I moved up to DOS from CP/M, I was also annoyed that
>> DBASE II from my Osborne woudn't run under a CP/M emulator. Only bit
>> of CP/M I wanted to preserve but apparently Adam coded in some
>> clever tricks to address the Osborne I hardware directly that an
>> emulator couldn't trap and implement.
>>
>>> Two words: planned obsolescence.
>
> The scheduled obsolescence these days is mostly with the browser, and
> specifically the encryption/security certificates. Even the most anodyne
> web sites use https today (thanks to Eric Snowden).

There's one exception: neverssl.com. It's specifically designed to never
make your web browser use HTTPS, and thus it's the perfect initial place
to go when you're trying to connect to a hotel's wi-fi and need to let
its captive portal snag you so you can register. If you try to do this
with a web site that automatically promotes you to HTTPS, you'll never
connect - although Internet Explorer seems to incorporate some sort of
hack that (true to form) tries to make such connections M$-specific.

> The certificates have expiration dates, and despite having a mechnism
> to import new certificates, the only obvious way to get them is to
> upgrade the browser. Eventually the new browser version requires an
> upgrade to operating system. The user is increasingly forced into
> upgrading their OS or faces losing access to web they may need.

Or you can try to find a browser that can get access without bloat.
Seamonkey (with AdBlockPlus and NoScript) works well enough for me.
If it doesn't work on a particular site, I take a serious look at
whether I really need what that site has to offer; usually there
are alternatives.

> There are also the whizzy new features that web site designers
> start adopting; the results are similar.

Whizzy new features are the fastest way to drive me away from
a web site. I realize that this puts me in the minority, but
c'est la guerre.

My philosophy is that systems should be ugly and boring.
Ugly as in devoid of whizzy new features that just get in
your way, and boring as in lacking surprises, many of which
can be unpleasant and/or time-consuming.

>> Clinging doggedly to the trailing edge of technology...
>
> With gusto. One of my machines is older with older software. I'm happy with
> it -- it does everything I want, it's configured the way I like, and I can get
> tasks completed with no backsass. It's use for web browsing is extremely
> limited, but otherwise is one of my main "daily drivers."

+1

> Circling back to this thread's title, one of the old pieces of software on
> that older machine that sees regular and frequent use is... the version of
> Qbasic that came with MS-DOS 5.0. I use it to quickly and easily write
> smallish programs for complex calculations, solving word puzzles, making
> graphic gee-gaws, and even file utilities. It has the usual structured
> programming flow control constructs and a fairly complete set of functions
> for math, string manipulation, graphics, and file I/O. The big drawback
> of the free version is that programs cannot be compiled, only interpreted.
> (There was a pay version of Qbasic with more features, including the ability
> to create a stand-alone executable image.)

I still keep a copy of GWBASIC around for quick hacks.
Never really got into QuirkBasic.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana
Re: Qbasic [message #406904 is a reply to message #406902] Thu, 01 April 2021 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 1 Apr 2021 06:31:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> On 2021-03-31, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>
>> The scheduled obsolescence these days is mostly with the browser, and
>> specifically the encryption/security certificates. Even the most anodyne
>> web sites use https today (thanks to Eric Snowden).
>
> There's one exception: neverssl.com.

Sweet. Although there are other exceptions. Like my web site (which has
fewer characters ;-). I never cared to have it to use HTTPS. Thus I use it
when I have to pass a captive portal.

Some years ago I "scripted" the login. The portal used the ID and
password "free". The URL sent was something like
" http://what_ever/index.php?id=free&passwd=free&mac=1 1:11:11:11:11:11", where
"11:11:11:11:11:11" is your MAC address. I extracted my MAC (which I had
changed to a random number already some decades ago) and added it to the
string, then "wget --spider ..." and I passed the portal. Today with all
the Web 2.0 goo I see some encrypted string when capturing what otherwise
would be sent by the browser, so that's a thing of the past.

Am afraid in the future some idiot might think a two-factor auth would be
a good idea. Thus that you also need to provide a mobile number (and
agree to also receive ads by text messages then), where a PIN is sent
also have to type in. :-(

> It's specifically designed to never make your web browser use HTTPS,
> and thus it's the perfect initial place to go when you're trying to
> connect to a hotel's wi-fi and need to let its captive portal snag you
> so you can register. If you try to do this with a web site that
> automatically promotes you to HTTPS, you'll never connect - although
> Internet Explorer seems to incorporate some sort of hack that (true to
> form) tries to make such connections M$-specific.

I seem to recall Firefox uses something similar too. Cannot remember the
URL though. Chrome seems not to have something like that. It fails as
well on the laptop computer here as on the tablet.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
Re: Qbasic [message #406907 is a reply to message #406902] Thu, 01 April 2021 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 1 Apr 2021 06:31:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2021-03-31, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>
>> On 27 Mar 2021 18:00:43 -0300, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm still upset that good old LIST.COM won't run on newer systems.
>>>> (I run 32-bit XP under VirtualBox, so I'm OK there, though.)
>>>
>>> It runs on my Pentium 4 desktops under DOS but not under
>>> Linux->X->DOESMU. Annoying. Haven't tried it on my newer laptop.
>>>
>>> Way back when I moved up to DOS from CP/M, I was also annoyed that
>>> DBASE II from my Osborne woudn't run under a CP/M emulator. Only bit
>>> of CP/M I wanted to preserve but apparently Adam coded in some
>>> clever tricks to address the Osborne I hardware directly that an
>>> emulator couldn't trap and implement.
>>>
>>>> Two words: planned obsolescence.
>>
>> The scheduled obsolescence these days is mostly with the browser, and
>> specifically the encryption/security certificates. Even the most anodyne
>> web sites use https today (thanks to Eric Snowden).
>
> There's one exception: neverssl.com. It's specifically designed to never
> make your web browser use HTTPS, and thus it's the perfect initial place
> to go when you're trying to connect to a hotel's wi-fi and need to let
> its captive portal snag you so you can register. If you try to do this
> with a web site that automatically promotes you to HTTPS, you'll never
> connect - although Internet Explorer seems to incorporate some sort of
> hack that (true to form) tries to make such connections M$-specific.
>
>> The certificates have expiration dates, and despite having a mechnism
>> to import new certificates, the only obvious way to get them is to
>> upgrade the browser. Eventually the new browser version requires an
>> upgrade to operating system. The user is increasingly forced into
>> upgrading their OS or faces losing access to web they may need.
>
> Or you can try to find a browser that can get access without bloat.
> Seamonkey (with AdBlockPlus and NoScript) works well enough for me.
> If it doesn't work on a particular site, I take a serious look at
> whether I really need what that site has to offer; usually there
> are alternatives.
>
>> There are also the whizzy new features that web site designers
>> start adopting; the results are similar.
>
> Whizzy new features are the fastest way to drive me away from
> a web site. I realize that this puts me in the minority, but
> c'est la guerre.
>
> My philosophy is that systems should be ugly and boring.
> Ugly as in devoid of whizzy new features that just get in
> your way, and boring as in lacking surprises, many of which
> can be unpleasant and/or time-consuming.
>
>>> Clinging doggedly to the trailing edge of technology...
>>
>> With gusto. One of my machines is older with older software. I'm happy with
>> it -- it does everything I want, it's configured the way I like, and I can get
>> tasks completed with no backsass. It's use for web browsing is extremely
>> limited, but otherwise is one of my main "daily drivers."
>
> +1
>
>> Circling back to this thread's title, one of the old pieces of software on
>> that older machine that sees regular and frequent use is... the version of
>> Qbasic that came with MS-DOS 5.0. I use it to quickly and easily write
>> smallish programs for complex calculations, solving word puzzles, making
>> graphic gee-gaws, and even file utilities. It has the usual structured
>> programming flow control constructs and a fairly complete set of functions
>> for math, string manipulation, graphics, and file I/O. The big drawback
>> of the free version is that programs cannot be compiled, only interpreted.
>> (There was a pay version of Qbasic with more features, including the ability
>> to create a stand-alone executable image.)
>
> I still keep a copy of GWBASIC around for quick hacks.
> Never really got into QuirkBasic.

FWIW, there's an open source Qbasic
compiler--<https://www.qb64.org/portal/>.

Whether it's any good or not I have no idea.
Re: [message #406910 is a reply to message #406907] Thu, 01 April 2021 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A.T. Murray

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 5:55:04 AM UTC-7, Jan whatshischops wrote:
> --
> I have a great .sig, but it won't fit at the end of this post.
> -Fermat

Then print it out and write it in the margin.

It will be known as "van den Broek's last sig".

Mentifex
http://ai.neocities.org/Reacher.html
Re: Qbasic [message #406912 is a reply to message #406907] Thu, 01 April 2021 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 4:56:03 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> FWIW, there's an open source Qbasic
> compiler--<https://www.qb64.org/portal/>.

> Whether it's any good or not I have no idea.

I've been using it to compile the BASIC program that draws maps
(in the .xbm format, which I then use other programs to convert
to .gif) for my web pages on map projections.

http://www.quadibloc.com/maps/mapint.htm

Only the line-drawn maps are by that program; I've also taken
those maps, and edited them in paint programs to add color or
captions, and I've used other programs like G.Projector to
generate full-relief maps and the like.

John Savard
Re: Qbasic [message #406916 is a reply to message #406902] Thu, 01 April 2021 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> Or you can try to find a browser that can get access without bloat.
> Seamonkey (with AdBlockPlus and NoScript) works well enough for me.

The version of Seamonkey I'm relying on allows ON/OFF of js from a
menu. There are perhaps 3 sites where I turn it on.

> If it doesn't work on a particular site, I take a serious look at
> whether I really need what that site has to offer; usually there
> are alternatives.

I lived from 1969 to '79 with no electricity of phone. It was an
excellent lesson in "Do I really need that?" Kerosene lighting, even
Aladdin lamps, was inadequate and we went to gas lighting. I read a
lot of interesting stuff by gaslight. Cooking on wood in a hot summer
was problematic so we got a gas two-burner hotplate -- easier than the
traditional solution of building and furnishing a separate "summer
kitchen." Some other things? Don't really need that, not worth the
bother, expense, upkeep.

Forty years on, we have electricity, both landline and cell phones and
seven computers but a hand pump water supply and hand-fed wood heat.
I split 8 cord of firewood a year with a maul. As long as I'm able to
do so, I don't need a gasoline-powered hydraulic splitter for reasons
cited above: bother, expense, upkeep.

With all that practice, it's much easier than it might be to say "Not
worth the [variously] risk, bother, annoyance" on the web.

Bald-faced assertion: There's too much stuff. And the effect is
fractal, occurring at all scales and in all domains from information
to workboots, from people to breakfast cereals. Some kind of first
approximation filter reminiscent of Procrustes, perhaps slightly less
stupid and psychopathic, seems justified.

> Whizzy new features are the fastest way to drive me away from
> a web site. I realize that this puts me in the minority, but
> c'est la guerre.

Some sites with whizzy features obscuring content can be resolved by
selecting No Style in Seamonkey. Real happy that someone pointed
that out to me.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Qbasic [message #407134 is a reply to message #406876] Sat, 10 April 2021 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
greenaum is currently offline  greenaum
Messages: 57
Registered: February 2011
Karma: 0
Member
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 06:34:05 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> sprachen:

> That might have been crowned, at least at the European market, with the
> Amstrad PCW from 1985 to 1998 (making the probably last commercial
> available Z80 computer in 1998 running CP/M). The ads targeted
> technophobes to get into computing <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PCW>.
>
> All machines came with monitor and most models had a printer. Some early
> models had an odd 3" floppy drive though.

All models had a printer, the brains of which were in the computer. The printer just contained the mechanical bits. Either a
dot-matrix or the more expensive daisywheel. They came with a monitor because that's where the computer was, in the monitor. And
you got single or twin of those weird 3" drives that Amstrad must have found a skip full of. He used them because they were cheap.
I had to repair one in a Spectrum +3 once, made by Amstrad so I assume it's the same model floppy drive. The disk is spun by a DC
motor, like you'd get in a toy race car, driving a rubber belt to the spindle. Over time the belts de-rubberise and go brittle,
then snap. I can't remember if there was a rotary encoder on the drive, or if it relied on the disk to do that. Knowing Amstrad,
probably the disk.

All of them had the 3" drive. Some users fitted a second 3.5" drive you could get third-party in magazines. The advantage being
more reliable I suppose, as well as the blank disks being cheaper.

It was really meant as a stand-alone word processor with no compatibility with any other computers whatsoever. As least it was so
intended. There were a couple of games made for it, but really it's user base was people who really didn't have a clue about
computers, and didn't want to learn. It did extremely well, my mum had one and mastered it pretty much. That's saying a lot,
really! The word processor ran on bare metal, the CP/M disk was more of an afterthought, or a future option. I bet most people
never even took it out of the box.

The PCB inside them was small and simple. Basically the Z80, RAM, an 8041 to control the printer, and an ASIC.

The later version, the PCW16, was a different design. Here, 16 refers to MHz, not bits. The clock speed of it's CPU... a Z80!
Amstrad also put a Z80 in charge of their awful version of the Apple Newton tablet thing. And their failed Emailer phone. They
really knew what they liked and stuck with it, even 20 years past it's sell-by date while Tamagotchi were running more powerful
CPUs in kids' pockets.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

if love is a drug, then, ideally, it's a healing, healthful drug... it's
kind of like prozac is supposed to work (without the sexual side
effects and long-term damage to the brain and psyche)
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