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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311506 is a reply to message #311497] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 14:36   |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
>
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>> For the last several new military aircraft, software has been the
>> long pole in the tent. By leaps and bounds. The F-35 is flying and
>> still has years of software work before it's production quality and
>> fight-ready.
>
> from ongoing cyber dumb theme .... F22 is 1.7M lines of code. For F35
A friend of mine worked on the F-22 program as a COBOL programmer for Lockheed Burbank
in the 80's; He never could say _what_ he was programming, but I
doubt it was avionics-related :-)
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311516 is a reply to message #311484] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 16:09 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-02-08, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> Quick rundown.
>>>>
>>>> A one-axis machine tool can move the work, or the cutter, in a line.
>>>> Think an old fashioned sawmill as one example. This isn't very useful
>>>> so as far as I know few one-axis autoamated machines were made other
>>>> than for testing actuation mechanisms and the like.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>
>> Note that this is known as subtractive manufacturing (start with a
>> large hunk of material and subtract the parts you don't want).
>>
>> It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>> nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing. Uses
>> less raw material, produces less waste, is faster and requires less final
>> finishing and is capable of producing hollow parts, something that most
>> milling machines have difficulties with.
>
> Ah! More detail. thanks. Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they
> were plastics.
>
> /BAH
Special ones can. Think gazonga dollars.
--
greymaus
.
.
....
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311520 is a reply to message #311481] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 17:11 |
Jon Elson
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv wrote:
>> If you really want to get into the practical nitty-gritty there are
>> several web sites for hobbyists who build and run their own NC machines.
Well, including me. See http://pico-systems.com/bridgeport.html
for an old pic of my 3-axis mill. I use the LinuxCNC program, an open-
source program that converts "G-code" (RS274) to motion on a variety of
machines, including those not having simple cartesian axes.
Jon
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311521 is a reply to message #311427] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 17:16 |
Jon Elson
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv wrote:
> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
> they all hooked up to a computer?
It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be operated
by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this could
be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other axes,
so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
Jon
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311523 is a reply to message #311481] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 17:47 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
In article <PM00052B42E8AB45E8@aca48014.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
says...
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article <PM00052B2F856E72E9@aca2d604.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> Jon Elson wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > OK, I'm not getting my question answered. I think I need to learn about
>>>> > machine tools. Where would I look (in real books) for that?
>>>
>>>> Oh, my. REAL books?
>>>
>>> Yup. I want to learn about what I don't know. I don't know enough to be
>>> able to seperate bullshit from fact; hell, I don't know enough to be
>>> able to form questions about the toopic.
>>>
>>>> Well, a university library might have books on
>>>> manufacturing technology, metal cutting and shaping, etc. Probably even
>>>> some books on CNC and CAD/CAM that is used to make the toolpath programs.
>>>> Any university that has a mechanical engineering department should have a
>>>> supply of these topics, although they could be very out of date.
>>>
>>> I'll have to ask my nephew. He got a degree so he could work on big
>>> engines and motors and stuff.
>>>>
>>>> CNC milling machines with more than 3 axes were tightly controlled, and
> may
>>>> still be under controls. The software and CNC control hardware are or
> were
>>>> also under controls. One of the big fears was that the Russians would be
>>>> able to make really quiet propellers for their submarines. Well, this
>>>> actually happened due to the CNC machine mentioned earlier in this
> thread.
>>>> The Russians apparently knew how to DESIGN a quiet propller, but they
> didn't
>>>> have the technology to MAKE it to that design. When hand-finishing it,
> it
>>>> would always have bumps and ripples that increased the acoustic output
>>>> greatly. Only the 5-axis CNC machine could cut it to the accuracy
> required.
>>>> (Or, they could have had some kind of high-tech measuring system to find
> the
>>>> bunps and grind them down. That was probably controlled technology,
> too.)
>>>>
>>>> A Google search on "russian quiet submarine propellers" and "russian
>>>> submarine propellers" turns up a lot of articles on this.
>>>
>>> But they won't have the detail I need.
>>
>> "Machining and CNC Technology" by Fitzpatrick might be what you're
>> looking for--it seems to be to be an overview intended as a first text
>> for people who intended to pursue a career as machinists or
>> manufacturing engineers.
>
> Thanks. I'll see if I can order it at the library.
>
>>
>> If you really want to get into the practical nitty-gritty there are
>> several web sites for hobbyists who build and run their own NC machines.
>
> So I google for "NC machines"?
Try "DIY NC machines".
>
> /BAH
>
>>
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311525 is a reply to message #311484] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 18:00 |
Warren Adams
Messages: 5
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On 2/8/2016 8:28 AM, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> Quick rundown.
>>>>
>>>> A one-axis machine tool can move the work, or the cutter, in a line.
>>>> Think an old fashioned sawmill as one example. This isn't very useful
>>>> so as far as I know few one-axis autoamated machines were made other
>>>> than for testing actuation mechanisms and the like.
>>>>
>>>> Two axis, it can move in two directions. This allows a variety of cuts
>>>> to be made automatically with a single depth of cut. If you cut all the
>>>> way through the work piece then you've got it cut to shape, if you go
>>>> only part way through then you've got a cover or a housing, or the like.
>>>>
>>>> Three axis, it can move in three directions--that means that you can cut
>>>> a shape of arbitrary complexity as long as it's all right for the cut to
>>>> be not quite smooth. A skilled programmer who makes careful use of the
>>>> available cutter shapes can make a remarkable range of objects with a 3-
>>>> axis machine.
>>>>
>>>> Four axis adds rotation, either about one of the translation axes or
>>>> possibly about another axis. Now smooth curved cuts can be made in one
>>>> direction.
>>>>
>>>> Five axis addes a second rotation, allowing smooth curved cuts in two
>>>> planes--this allows very complex shapes to be made smoothly.
>>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>
>> Note that this is known as subtractive manufacturing (start with a
>> large hunk of material and subtract the parts you don't want).
>>
>> It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>> nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing. Uses
>> less raw material, produces less waste, is faster and requires less final
>> finishing and is capable of producing hollow parts, something that most
>> milling machines have difficulties with.
>
> Ah! More detail. thanks. Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they
> were plastics.
>
> /BAH
>
A few links about 3d printing:
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/manufacturing-material s-3d/index.html
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311526 is a reply to message #311502] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 18:26 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 18:26:25 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2016 11:26:59 -0600
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 08:14:50 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 6:59:18 AM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>>>> nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing.
>>>
>>> Right now, of course, that technology is not there yet. It's much more
>>> expensive than milling - and tends to produce parts that are lacking in
>>> structural strength.
>>>
>>> Of course, one can choose which of these flaws one experiences... more
>>> expensive 3D printers no doubt do a better job.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>> Plastic filament with wood or metal as part of it is available. I
>> wouldn't use it for an aircraft or car, but it can be used for other
>> items. There are several 3D printers that come as a basic device. Then
>> the owner downloads files which when printed expand the printer.
>
> You are thinking of the hobby toys not the extremely expensive
> production tools.
Well, mine cost $500 and can use the wood and metal filaments. There
are more expensive machines that don't cost millions of dollars that
are benig used to make metal items. The printer I mentioned that
expands itself, uses metal filament. The one I would like to get, but
cannot afford, costs about $15,000.00. But I don't know what I would
do with it.
The biggest problem with the chealer machines is speed of making. They
don't have any. I've seen photos of 3D printing where the owner made
an entire Middle Ages village with a castle. All can be taken apart
for gaming. Form what I gathered, he used something other than plastic
filament, it looks like stone.
The plastic filament I bought is cheap, at $25 a roll. The metal and
wood filament is twice the cost and the roll is smaller.
Even Wal-Mart carries name brand filament these days. Sam's Club
carries a 3D printer at about $3,000.00 each.
--
JimP.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311528 is a reply to message #311498] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 19:19 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
> In article <PM00052B42F26B2981@aca48014.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Quick rundown.
>>>> >
>>>> > A one-axis machine tool can move the work, or the cutter, in a line.
>>>> > Think an old fashioned sawmill as one example. This isn't very useful
>>>> > so as far as I know few one-axis autoamated machines were made other
>>>> > than for testing actuation mechanisms and the like.
>>>> >
>>>> > Two axis, it can move in two directions. This allows a variety of cuts
>>>> > to be made automatically with a single depth of cut. If you cut all the
>>>> > way through the work piece then you've got it cut to shape, if you go
>>>> > only part way through then you've got a cover or a housing, or the like.
>>>> >
>>>> > Three axis, it can move in three directions--that means that you can cut
>>>> > a shape of arbitrary complexity as long as it's all right for the cut to
>>>> > be not quite smooth. A skilled programmer who makes careful use of the
>>>> > available cutter shapes can make a remarkable range of objects with a 3-
>>>> > axis machine.
>>>> >
>>>> > Four axis adds rotation, either about one of the translation axes or
>>>> > possibly about another axis. Now smooth curved cuts can be made in one
>>>> > direction.
>>>> >
>>>> > Five axis addes a second rotation, allowing smooth curved cuts in two
>>>> > planes--this allows very complex shapes to be made smoothly.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>>
>>> Note that this is known as subtractive manufacturing (start with a
>>> large hunk of material and subtract the parts you don't want).
>>>
>>> It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>>> nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing. Uses
>>> less raw material, produces less waste, is faster and requires less final
>>> finishing and is capable of producing hollow parts, something that most
>>> milling machines have difficulties with.
>>
>> Ah! More detail. thanks. Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they
>> were plastics.
>
> They can do metals in several different ways. Ion deposits, vapor/plastma
> beams, and others. They can do concrete, and even live tissue. The very
> latest is to use stem cells with programming. They you can literally
> print new body parts. Surgically applied for skin and blood vessels
> already.
>
> -- mrr
>
Also food
--
Pete
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311529 is a reply to message #311495] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 19:19 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hilo Black <hbk897@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM00052B42EDE2F8C7@aca48014.ipt.aol.com...
>> Osmium wrote:
>>> "jmfbahciv" wrote:
>>>
>>>> > A Google search on "russian quiet submarine propellers" and "russian
>>>> > submarine propellers" turns up a lot of articles on this.
>>>>
>>>> But they won't have the detail I need.
>>>
>>> There is some remarkable technical stuff on Youtube.
>>
>> Yea, I'll check that out after I get an intro to the topic.
>> Watching on little TVs isn't the same as meeting one in person
>> and talking to a human who knows what s/he is doing.
>
> It is in fact much better and even you can afford a decent sized TV.
Get a Chromecast to (Iirc) $25 and play your Youtube videos on your TV.
>
> I got the same reaction wasting a few hours in our primary technology
> museum, kept thinking that a decent doco would do a much better
> job than any static display could ever do with technology.
>
>
--
Pete
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311532 is a reply to message #311529] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 20:22 |
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Originally posted by: Hilo Black
"Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1858734803.476669799.201389.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
> Hilo Black <hbk897@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM00052B42EDE2F8C7@aca48014.ipt.aol.com...
>>> Osmium wrote:
>>>> "jmfbahciv" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> A Google search on "russian quiet submarine propellers" and "russian
>>>> >> submarine propellers" turns up a lot of articles on this.
>>>> >
>>>> > But they won't have the detail I need.
>>>>
>>>> There is some remarkable technical stuff on Youtube.
>>>
>>> Yea, I'll check that out after I get an intro to the topic.
>>> Watching on little TVs isn't the same as meeting one in person
>>> and talking to a human who knows what s/he is doing.
>>
>> It is in fact much better and even you can afford a decent sized TV.
>
> Get a Chromecast to (Iirc) $25 and play your Youtube videos on your TV.
She's still on dialup. Unlikely that she waits for those to download.
>> I got the same reaction wasting a few hours in our primary technology
>> museum, kept thinking that a decent doco would do a much better
>> job than any static display could ever do with technology.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311563 is a reply to message #311484] |
Mon, 08 February 2016 22:18 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 08/02/2016 14:28, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> Quick rundown.
>>>>
>>>> A one-axis machine tool can move the work, or the cutter, in a line.
>>>> Think an old fashioned sawmill as one example. This isn't very useful
>>>> so as far as I know few one-axis autoamated machines were made other
>>>> than for testing actuation mechanisms and the like.
>>>>
>>>> Two axis, it can move in two directions. This allows a variety of cuts
>>>> to be made automatically with a single depth of cut. If you cut all the
>>>> way through the work piece then you've got it cut to shape, if you go
>>>> only part way through then you've got a cover or a housing, or the like.
>>>>
>>>> Three axis, it can move in three directions--that means that you can cut
>>>> a shape of arbitrary complexity as long as it's all right for the cut to
>>>> be not quite smooth. A skilled programmer who makes careful use of the
>>>> available cutter shapes can make a remarkable range of objects with a 3-
>>>> axis machine.
>>>>
>>>> Four axis adds rotation, either about one of the translation axes or
>>>> possibly about another axis. Now smooth curved cuts can be made in one
>>>> direction.
>>>>
>>>> Five axis addes a second rotation, allowing smooth curved cuts in two
>>>> planes--this allows very complex shapes to be made smoothly.
>>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>
>> Note that this is known as subtractive manufacturing (start with a
>> large hunk of material and subtract the parts you don't want).
>>
>> It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>> nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing. Uses
>> less raw material, produces less waste, is faster and requires less final
>> finishing and is capable of producing hollow parts, something that most
>> milling machines have difficulties with.
>
> Ah! More detail. thanks. Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they
> were plastics.
>
> /BAH
>
Some 3D printers can produce metal parts. It either makes a mould for
casting the item or a laser melts powdered metal. These machines tend to
be expensive so rarely used by hobbyists.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311580 is a reply to message #311532] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 06:16 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-02-09, Hilo Black <hbk897@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1858734803.476669799.201389.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Hilo Black <hbk897@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:PM00052B42EDE2F8C7@aca48014.ipt.aol.com...
>>>> Osmium wrote:
>>>> > "jmfbahciv" wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> A Google search on "russian quiet submarine propellers" and "russian
>>>> >>> submarine propellers" turns up a lot of articles on this.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But they won't have the detail I need.
>>>> >
>>>> > There is some remarkable technical stuff on Youtube.
>>>>
>>>> Yea, I'll check that out after I get an intro to the topic.
>>>> Watching on little TVs isn't the same as meeting one in person
>>>> and talking to a human who knows what s/he is doing.
>>>
>>> It is in fact much better and even you can afford a decent sized TV.
>>
>> Get a Chromecast to (Iirc) $25 and play your Youtube videos on your TV.
>
> She's still on dialup. Unlikely that she waits for those to download.
>
>>> I got the same reaction wasting a few hours in our primary technology
>>> museum, kept thinking that a decent doco would do a much better
>>> job than any static display could ever do with technology.
>
>
A friends son visited last week , the only place handy for him to stay
had not broadband. He went home next day. The experience of Ireland in a
cold wet February was no help either.
(He usually lives in a warmer country)
--
greymaus
.
.
....
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311582 is a reply to message #311503] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 09:21 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andy Burns wrote:
> jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they were plastics.
>
> Over 10 years ago I bought some 3D printed "mathematical art", I
> understand they're made from layers of powdered steel that's sintered by
> laser, then the resulting form is soaked in bronze and polished by hand.
>
> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt>
>
> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process>
I'd forgotten about laser. I was thinking of metals like I saw
when my grade school class spent a day at Ford Motors.
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311584 is a reply to message #311521] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 09:21 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Jon Elson wrote:
> jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>
>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>> they all hooked up to a computer?
> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be operated
> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this could
> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other axes,
> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
replicate what he makes.
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311585 is a reply to message #311523] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 09:21 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <PM00052B42E8AB45E8@aca48014.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
> says...
<snip>
>>> "Machining and CNC Technology" by Fitzpatrick might be what you're
>>> looking for--it seems to be to be an overview intended as a first text
>>> for people who intended to pursue a career as machinists or
>>> manufacturing engineers.
>>
>> Thanks. I'll see if I can order it at the library.
I was able to order the book. Can't wait :-)
>>
>>>
>>> If you really want to get into the practical nitty-gritty there are
>>> several web sites for hobbyists who build and run their own NC machines.
>>
>> So I google for "NC machines"?
>
> Try "DIY NC machines".
Thanks. I forgot to google stuff yesterday.
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311588 is a reply to message #311528] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 09:21 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Peter Flass wrote:
> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <PM00052B42F26B2981@aca48014.ipt.aol.com>,
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>> > J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Quick rundown.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> A one-axis machine tool can move the work, or the cutter, in a line.
>>>> >> Think an old fashioned sawmill as one example. This isn't very useful
>>>> >> so as far as I know few one-axis autoamated machines were made other
>>>> >> than for testing actuation mechanisms and the like.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Two axis, it can move in two directions. This allows a variety of cuts
>>>> >> to be made automatically with a single depth of cut. If you cut all
the
>>>> >> way through the work piece then you've got it cut to shape, if you go
>>>> >> only part way through then you've got a cover or a housing, or the
like.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Three axis, it can move in three directions--that means that you can
cut
>>>> >> a shape of arbitrary complexity as long as it's all right for the cut
to
>>>> >> be not quite smooth. A skilled programmer who makes careful use of the
>>>> >> available cutter shapes can make a remarkable range of objects with a
3-
>>>> >> axis machine.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Four axis adds rotation, either about one of the translation axes or
>>>> >> possibly about another axis. Now smooth curved cuts can be made in one
>>>> >> direction.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Five axis addes a second rotation, allowing smooth curved cuts in two
>>>> >> planes--this allows very complex shapes to be made smoothly.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> > they all hooked up to a computer?
>>>>
>>>> Note that this is known as subtractive manufacturing (start with a
>>>> large hunk of material and subtract the parts you don't want).
>>>>
>>>> It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>>>> nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing.
Uses
>>>> less raw material, produces less waste, is faster and requires less final
>>>> finishing and is capable of producing hollow parts, something that most
>>>> milling machines have difficulties with.
>>>
>>> Ah! More detail. thanks. Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they
>>> were plastics.
>>
>> They can do metals in several different ways. Ion deposits, vapor/plastma
>> beams, and others. They can do concrete, and even live tissue. The very
>> latest is to use stem cells with programming. They you can literally
>> print new body parts. Surgically applied for skin and blood vessels
>> already.
>>
>> -- mrr
>>
>
> Also food
Food?!! What kind of food? And why would it need 3D-printing?
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311591 is a reply to message #311588] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:03 |
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Originally posted by: Hilo Black
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM00052B56D6A66347@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com...
> Peter Flass wrote:
>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <PM00052B42F26B2981@aca48014.ipt.aol.com>,
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> > jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>> >> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> Quick rundown.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> A one-axis machine tool can move the work, or the cutter, in a line.
>>>> >>> Think an old fashioned sawmill as one example. This isn't very
>>>> >>> useful
>>>> >>> so as far as I know few one-axis autoamated machines were made other
>>>> >>> than for testing actuation mechanisms and the like.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Two axis, it can move in two directions. This allows a variety of
>>>> >>> cuts
>>>> >>> to be made automatically with a single depth of cut. If you cut all
> the
>>>> >>> way through the work piece then you've got it cut to shape, if you
>>>> >>> go
>>>> >>> only part way through then you've got a cover or a housing, or the
> like.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Three axis, it can move in three directions--that means that you can
> cut
>>>> >>> a shape of arbitrary complexity as long as it's all right for the
>>>> >>> cut
> to
>>>> >>> be not quite smooth. A skilled programmer who makes careful use of
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> available cutter shapes can make a remarkable range of objects with
>>>> >>> a
> 3-
>>>> >>> axis machine.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Four axis adds rotation, either about one of the translation axes or
>>>> >>> possibly about another axis. Now smooth curved cuts can be made in
>>>> >>> one
>>>> >>> direction.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Five axis addes a second rotation, allowing smooth curved cuts in
>>>> >>> two
>>>> >>> planes--this allows very complex shapes to be made smoothly.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> >> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>>> >
>>>> > Note that this is known as subtractive manufacturing (start with a
>>>> > large hunk of material and subtract the parts you don't want).
>>>> >
>>>> > It's gradually being replaced with additive manufacturing (start with
>>>> > nothing and add the elements you want). Also known as 3-D printing.
> Uses
>>>> > less raw material, produces less waste, is faster and requires less
>>>> > final
>>>> > finishing and is capable of producing hollow parts, something that
>>>> > most
>>>> > milling machines have difficulties with.
>>>>
>>>> Ah! More detail. thanks. Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume
>>>> they
>>>> were plastics.
>>>
>>> They can do metals in several different ways. Ion deposits,
>>> vapor/plastma
>>> beams, and others. They can do concrete, and even live tissue. The very
>>> latest is to use stem cells with programming. They you can literally
>>> print new body parts. Surgically applied for skin and blood vessels
>>> already.
>> Also food
>
> Food?!! What kind of food?
Icing on cakes.
> And why would it need 3D-printing?
Some can be surprisingly fancy and 3D
printing is the obvious way to do them.
Not just icing on cakes either.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311592 is a reply to message #311584] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:05 |
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Originally posted by: Hilo Black
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM00052B570F39222F@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com...
> Jon Elson wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be
>> operated
>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this
>> could
>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other
>> axes,
>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>
> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>
> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
> replicate what he makes.
It can do stuff he can't like hollow metal objects, unless he casts those.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311593 is a reply to message #311584] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:07 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Jon Elson wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be operated
>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this could
>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other axes,
>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>
> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>
> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
> renewed interest.
There has never been a lack of interest in metallurgy. In fact,
there has been great strides made in new materials over the last
two decades, particularly with aluminum alloys for aerospace.
> I started to wonder about the techniques
> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
> replicate what he makes.
Use a 3-D scanner feeding specs to a 3-D printer.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311598 is a reply to message #311582] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:10 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they were plastics.
>>
>> Over 10 years ago I bought some 3D printed "mathematical art", I
>> understand they're made from layers of powdered steel that's sintered by
>> laser, then the resulting form is soaked in bronze and polished by hand.
>>
>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt>
>>
>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process>
>
> I'd forgotten about laser. I was thinking of metals like I saw
> when my grade school class spent a day at Ford Motors.
>
There has been a fair amount of progress in the last fifty years.
You'd likely not recognize a modern automobile manufacturing facility.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311599 is a reply to message #311588] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:07 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 9 Feb 2016 14:21:03 GMT
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Food?!! What kind of food? And why would it need 3D-printing?
The idea is that you grow cells (pick your meat) in a bioreactor,
decant them into a print head and print them onto a substrate to produce
artificial steaks and suchlike which have never been cut from an animal.
There are many fiddly details but that's the essence of it.
There was an occasion a couple of years back where the speaker (CEO
and/or owner of one of the companies making bioprinting equipment) cooked
and ate a printed pork steak while giving his talk and announcing a spinoff
company to commercialise the process (making that steak had been expensive
lab work).
Now contemplate Arthur Clarke's "Food of the Gods".
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311600 is a reply to message #311584] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:47 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-02-09, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Jon Elson wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be operated
>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this could
>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other axes,
>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>
> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>
> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
> replicate what he makes.
>
> /BAH
No. Either blacksmithing proper or farrying (horseshoes) are skilled
occupations (I know a man that brought his farrier with him, when having
a horse run in Australia, and no, it didn't win.
(Computer controlled cutting of outlines is allowing fancy gates to
be made, the gate itself is done with hammers and anvils. One, whenever
I see it in action, reminds me of the gates of Mordor in the LOTR film.)
--
greymaus
.
.
....
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311601 is a reply to message #311592] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 10:49 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2016-02-09, Hilo Black <hbk897@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM00052B570F39222F@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com...
>> Jon Elson wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be
>>> operated
>>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this
>>> could
>>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other
>>> axes,
>>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>>
>> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>>
>> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
>> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
>> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
>> replicate what he makes.
>
> It can do stuff he can't like hollow metal objects, unless he casts those.
>
Plus, for most bits, he cannot get wrought steel, which means that
most of the stuff, unless kept well painted, will be gome in a few years.
--
greymaus
.
.
....
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311605 is a reply to message #311595] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 12:27 |
Stan Barr
Messages: 598
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:09:32 GMT, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>> Peter Flass wrote:
>
>>> Also food
>>
>> Food?!! What kind of food? And why would it need 3D-printing?
>
> Fancy deserts, wedding cakes, et alia. It's all about the presentation.
NASA has been expermenting with 3D printing food such as cookies etc.
to proved astronauts with a bit of variety.
--
Stan Barr plan.b@bluesomatic.org
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311606 is a reply to message #311605] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 13:36 |
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Originally posted by: tracymnelson
On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 at 12:27:34 PM UTC-5, Stan Barr wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:09:32 GMT, Scott Lurndal <s**@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>>> Also food
>>>
>>> Food?!! What kind of food? And why would it need 3D-printing?
>>
>> Fancy deserts, wedding cakes, et alia. It's all about the presentation.
>
> NASA has been expermenting with 3D printing food such as cookies etc.
> to proved astronauts with a bit of variety.
My daughter's school has one. They've used it to print fancy cake toppers for school functions,
I don't know what else though.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311610 is a reply to message #311582] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 12:42 |
Morten Reistad
Messages: 2108
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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In article <PM00052B56CF8F37B1@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com>,
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>> Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they were plastics.
>>
>> Over 10 years ago I bought some 3D printed "mathematical art", I
>> understand they're made from layers of powdered steel that's sintered by
>> laser, then the resulting form is soaked in bronze and polished by hand.
>>
>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt>
>>
>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process>
>
> I'd forgotten about laser. I was thinking of metals like I saw
> when my grade school class spent a day at Ford Motors.
There are many types.
Ion deposition directs a plastma beam in a vacuum. Very solid result
and great precision, but ultra slow.
Powder of some easily melted metal, like an aluminium alloy, can be
sent in a beam similarly. Lots faster, not so strong or accurate.
Then there are lots of laser tricks to do in between these extremes.
I particularly like the concrete 20x20 meter printers made in
the Netherlands. They print houses. Rather nice ones too.
-- mrr
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311612 is a reply to message #311487] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 14:55 |
Jon Elson
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2013
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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> Osmium wrote:
>> jmelson wrote :
>>
>>>> A Google search on "russian quiet submarine propellers" and "russian
>>>> submarine propellers" turns up a lot of articles on this.
>>>
>>> But they won't have the detail I need.
Uhh, that will get you into the "we could tell you, but then we'd have to
kill you" territory!
Jon
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311622 is a reply to message #311584] |
Tue, 09 February 2016 19:01 |
|
|
Originally posted by: J. Clarke
In article <PM00052B570F39222F@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
says...
>
> Jon Elson wrote:
>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be operated
>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this could
>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other axes,
>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>
> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>
> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
> replicate what he makes.
Scan it, print it. Wouldn't be the same as a forging (forging changes
the microstructure in beneficial ways) but could look pretty close.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311644 is a reply to message #311610] |
Wed, 10 February 2016 07:46 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <PM00052B56CF8F37B1@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they were plastics.
>>>
>>> Over 10 years ago I bought some 3D printed "mathematical art", I
>>> understand they're made from layers of powdered steel that's sintered by
>>> laser, then the resulting form is soaked in bronze and polished by hand.
>>>
>>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt>
>>>
>>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process>
>>
>> I'd forgotten about laser. I was thinking of metals like I saw
>> when my grade school class spent a day at Ford Motors.
>
> There are many types.
>
> Ion deposition directs a plastma beam in a vacuum. Very solid result
> and great precision, but ultra slow.
>
> Powder of some easily melted metal, like an aluminium alloy, can be
> sent in a beam similarly. Lots faster, not so strong or accurate.
>
> Then there are lots of laser tricks to do in between these extremes.
>
> I particularly like the concrete 20x20 meter printers made in
> the Netherlands. They print houses. Rather nice ones too.
Houses?!!! Kewl. I'm assuming that the printer is outside the
house after it's done....?
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311646 is a reply to message #311622] |
Wed, 10 February 2016 07:46 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <PM00052B570F39222F@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
> says...
>>
>> Jon Elson wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be
operated
>>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this
could
>>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other
axes,
>>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>>
>> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>>
>> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
>> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
>> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
>> replicate what he makes.
>
> Scan it, print it. Wouldn't be the same as a forging (forging changes
> the microstructure in beneficial ways) but could look pretty close.
Those microstructure changes are important.
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311647 is a reply to message #311598] |
Wed, 10 February 2016 07:46 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they were plastics.
>>>
>>> Over 10 years ago I bought some 3D printed "mathematical art", I
>>> understand they're made from layers of powdered steel that's sintered by
>>> laser, then the resulting form is soaked in bronze and polished by hand.
>>>
>>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt>
>>>
>>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process>
>>
>> I'd forgotten about laser. I was thinking of metals like I saw
>> when my grade school class spent a day at Ford Motors.
>>
>
> There has been a fair amount of progress in the last fifty years.
>
> You'd likely not recognize a modern automobile manufacturing facility.
I don't think they roll their own metal sheets anymore...right?
It's really too bad that companies can't show their methods to
school kids.
/BAH
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311648 is a reply to message #311647] |
Wed, 10 February 2016 10:52 |
Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
|
|
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM00052B69D8F8E8E1@aca446e2.ipt.aol.com...
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Can 3D printer do metals? I had assume they were plastics.
>>>>
>>>> Over 10 years ago I bought some 3D printed "mathematical art", I
>>>> understand they're made from layers of powdered steel that's sintered
>>>> by
>>>> laser, then the resulting form is soaked in bronze and polished by
>>>> hand.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process>
>>>
>>> I'd forgotten about laser. I was thinking of metals like I saw
>>> when my grade school class spent a day at Ford Motors.
>>>
>>
>> There has been a fair amount of progress in the last fifty years.
>>
>> You'd likely not recognize a modern automobile manufacturing facility.
>
> I don't think they roll their own metal sheets anymore...right?
> It's really too bad that companies can't show their methods to
> school kids.
They do, in docos like Ultimate Factories and Megafactories,
and show you a hell of a lot more, and a hell of a lot better
than any visit by a group of school kids can ever do.
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311669 is a reply to message #311622] |
Wed, 10 February 2016 01:34 |
Morten Reistad
Messages: 2108
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In article <MPG.312447e51d0d1f0d989f5f@news.eternal-september.org>,
J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <PM00052B570F39222F@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
> says...
>>
>> Jon Elson wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> they all hooked up to a computer?
>>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be operated
>>> by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in place, then this could
>>> be done, but it would be quite a bit more complex that typical machining.
>>> But, with the angular axes in motion, it affects offsets of the other axes,
>>> so that would be almost impossible to do manually.
>>
>> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>>
>> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
>> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
>> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
>> replicate what he makes.
>
> Scan it, print it. Wouldn't be the same as a forging (forging changes
> the microstructure in beneficial ways) but could look pretty close.
No, you would not get Bessemer steel. But it would probably beat
forged and welded.
-- mrr
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| Re: DEC and The Americans [message #311676 is a reply to message #311669] |
Thu, 11 February 2016 03:30 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
> In article <MPG.312447e51d0d1f0d989f5f@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
> J. Clarke <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In article <PM00052B570F39222F@aca405cc.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> Jon Elson wrote:
>>>> jmfbahciv wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Thanks. :-) Kewl. Are any of the n-axis tools run by hand or are
>>>> > they all hooked up to a computer?
>>>> It would be VERY strange for a general 4- or 5-axis machine to be
>>>> operated by hand. If the angular axes were set and locked in
>>>> place, then this could be done, but it would be quite a bit more
>>>> complex that typical machining. But, with the angular axes in
>>>> motion, it affects offsets of the other axes, so that would be
>>>> almost impossible to do manually.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of a machinist god who has the talent.
>>>
>>> After reading all of the posts, it looks like metallurgy will have
>>> renewed interest. I started to wonder about the techniques
>>> used by our local blacksmith. I don't see how 3-D printing could
>>> replicate what he makes.
Tangentially OT: I was at MIT to present seminars on blacksmithing in,
oh, I think '85. I visited the robotics lab where they had
hacked-together robots that could play paddle ball and could catch a
tennis ball thrown across a room. I asked about a robot that could do
simple forging with hammer and anvil (and allowing a substitute medium
that didn't have to be red hot to be malleable). The answer at that
time was, "It's too hard."
Just off hand, I don't think there are *shapes* done at the anvil that
couldn't be 3D printed. But getting solid steel with structural
strength similar to hand forgings is, AFAIK, still in the future.
Printer-controlled plasma or vapor deposition? Did the OP cite plaes
doing that for production? Sis I miss that?
>> Scan it, print it. Wouldn't be the same as a forging (forging changes
>> the microstructure in beneficial ways) but could look pretty close.
>
> No, you would not get Bessemer steel. But it would probably beat
> forged and welded.
>
> -- mrr
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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