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AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #309207] Wed, 20 January 2016 10:19 Go to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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Context: In another newsgroup someone was complaining that I would get offended if they called AppleWin's debugger crap. I took no offense and counter-intuitively *agreed* this actually would probably be the fastest way to help _improve_ it. :-)

What are your gripes with the debugger? I've probably missed a few but
here are my biggest ones why I think AppleWin's debugger still sucks
to get the ball rolling:

* No command line editing (left/right arrow keys, ctrl-e, ctrl-b) sucks
* No command history recall (up/down arrow keys)
* No tab-completion for commands
You can view the history when you press ~ and up/down work,
but page up/down don't, nor can you recall a previous command
* have to use MD1 or MD2 before the hidden DATA command works :-/
* tons of commands still have no built-in help :-(
* Soft-Switches don't display which RAM Banks are active
In the past I had used the excuse that there was no visual room,
but that is a cop-out for bad UI.
* Debugger is a performance hog (#291) -- ouch!
* No separate window panes (#263)
* Can't BLOAD/BSAVE to LC (#256)
* Can't use a custom character set (#257)
* Missing DOS3.3 symbols (#247)
* Missing ProDOS (ver??) symbols (

So go ahead, list constructive feedback for what drives you nuts in
AppleWin's debugger. Feel free to post previous comments/urls -- it
would be great to a get an consolidated, updated list!

I've put off some of these issues for *far* too long.

Thanks!
Michael, "making the debugger suck less line by line" :-)
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #309210 is a reply to message #309207] Wed, 20 January 2016 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qkumba is currently offline  qkumba
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My list is short:
I can't see how to 'D' aux memory explicitly;
I can't see how to jump back to "PC" after disassembling another location, without looking up its value and typing it in (especially annoying if I press accidently the left or right arrow so list window jumps to random places);
After setting a 'BP' or 'BPM' breakpoint, all 'G' breakpoints are added to BP list;
Soft-switch collection needs more entries - try stepping through Bank Street Writer III while it's running code from the graphics screens which are not the ones that are being displayed.

Some combination of G and BP breakpoints and resuming execution causes BP breakpoints to be ignored. I need to find how to reproduce that one consistently.
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #309310 is a reply to message #309210] Wed, 20 January 2016 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 9:17:55 AM UTC-8, Peter Ferrie wrote:
> I can't see how to jump back to "PC" after disassembling another location, without looking up its value and typing it in (especially annoying if I press accidentally the left or right arrow so list window jumps to random places);

Can you let me know if TAB doesn't work? :-)

Thanks for the feedback!

We really need a configuration panel with all the debugger keys listed so people can view / edit them.
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #309360 is a reply to message #309310] Thu, 21 January 2016 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qkumba is currently offline  qkumba
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>> I can't see how to jump back to "PC" after disassembling another location, without looking up its value and typing it in (especially annoying if I press accidentally the left or right arrow so list window jumps to random places);
>
> Can you let me know if TAB doesn't work? :-)

Indeed, that solves it for me.

> We really need a configuration panel with all the debugger keys listed so people can view / edit them.

That would certainly help. :-)
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #309454 is a reply to message #309207] Fri, 22 January 2016 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Brian Patrie

On 2016-01-20 09:19, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> In the past I had used the excuse that there was no visual room,

Especially since there's a bunch of unused space. Speaking of which,
sometimes it would be nice if the label and operand columns were a few
chars wider.
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #318316 is a reply to message #309454] Sat, 21 May 2016 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: John Public

I'd still like to see an indicator to show whether you're in MAIN or AUX
memory. I was reading one of the apple 2 books and it says when the computer
starts up, you're in LCBANK2, so I'd like to see an indicator for that as well. (Yes, I'm still messing with Diversi-Dial). :)

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #318706 is a reply to message #318316] Sat, 28 May 2016 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 9:35:06 AM UTC-7, John Public wrote:
> I'd still like to see an indicator to show whether you're in MAIN or AUX
> memory. I was reading one of the apple 2 books and it says when the computer
> starts up, you're in LCBANK2, so I'd like to see an indicator for that as well. (Yes, I'm still messing with Diversi-Dial). :)

1. Yup, that's been a wishlist of mine too! There is just enough room to squeeze in a few more modes:

http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/dev/applewin/debugger/d ebugger_all_registers.png

Considering there a dozen soft switches for memory management which are the (2) most important ones that people want displayed? I'm thinking the abbreviations ...

02:RM/X
04:WM/X

.... instead of the more common verbose RAMDRON, RAMDROFF. I see these are Appple's "official" names (from ProDOS sources):

ramin equ $c08b
ramin2 equ $c083
romin equ $c082 ;swap rom in, write protect ram
romin1 equ $c081 ;swap rom in w/o w-prot ram
slot3rom equ $c00b ;write location to switch in slot 3 rom
read3rom equ $c017 ; bit 7 =1 if slot space 3 enabled
int3rom equ $c00a ;write location to switch in internal 3

I have to admit I've never done any Aux. memory programming (yet) so feedback would be appreciated!


2. I also need to show the Language Card read/write bank state. How should this be compactly shown?

The $C080 .. $0C08F area is a bit of a clusterfrack. :-/ The ancient "Language Card Crack" technique (C081 C081 D000<D000.FFFFM FA62:4C 59 FF C080) should be visible:

80:LC2/ROM R/W+
88:LC1/ROM R/W+
^ ^ ^
| | Language Card State: Read, Write Enable, Write Protect
| Read from ROM or Language Card
Address

Reference; more for my sake so I don't have to track these down again :-)

MEMORY MANAGEMENT SOFT SWITCHES
$C000 W 80STOREOFF Allow page2 to switch video page1 page2
$C001 W 80STOREON Allow page2 to switch main & aux video memory
$C002 W RAMRDOFF Read enable main memory from $0200-$BFFF
$C003 W RAMDRON Read enable aux memory from $0200-$BFFF
$C004 W RAMWRTOFF Write enable main memory from $0200-$BFFF
$C005 W RAMWRTON Write enable aux memory from $0200-$BFFF
$C006 W INTCXROMOFF Enable slot ROM from $C100-$CFFF
$C007 W INTCXROMON Enable main ROM from $C100-$CFFF
$C008 W ALZTPOFF Enable main memory from $0000-$01FF & avl BSR
$C009 W ALTZPON Enable aux memory from $0000-$01FF & avl BSR
$C00A W SLOTC3ROMOFF Enable main ROM from $C300-$C3FF
$C00B W SLOTC3ROMON Enable slot ROM from $C300-$C3FF

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/apple.cabi.net/Languages.Progra mming/MemoryMap.IIe.64K.128K.txt

For WR-enable LC RAM, the softswitch REQUIRES two successive reads

$C080 ;RD LC RAM bank2, WR-protect LC RAM
ROMIN = $C081 ;RD ROM, WR-enable LC RAM
$C082 ;RD ROM, WR-protect LC RAM
LCBANK2 = $C083 ;RD LC RAM bank2, WR-enable LC RAM

$C084 ;RD LC RAM bank2, WR-protect LC RAM
$C085 ;RD ROM, WR-enable LC RAM
$C086 ;RD ROM, WR-protect LC RAM
$C087 ;RD LC RAM bank2, WR-enable LC RAM

$C088 ;RD LC RAM bank1, WR-protect LC RAM
$C089 ;RD ROM, WR-enable LC RAM
$C08A ;RD ROM, WR-protect LC RAM
LCBANK1 = $C08B ;RD LC RAM bank1, WR-enable LC RAM

$C08C ;RD LC RAM bank1, WR-protect LC RAM
$C08D ;RD ROM, WR-enable LC RAM
$C08E ;RD ROM, WR-protect LC RAM
$C08F ;RD LC RAM bank1, WR-enable LC RAM
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #318896 is a reply to message #318706] Mon, 30 May 2016 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TomCh is currently offline  TomCh
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On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 5:57:04 PM UTC+1, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> 1. Yup, that's been a wishlist of mine too! There is just enough room to squeeze in a few more modes:
>
Random thought, but you could toggle (via keyboard or mouse click) the video mode part and instead show the MMU config. (That's 10 lines of 12 chars!)

You'd also need the current Aux 64K bank, eg. RAMworks cards can support up to 127 x 64K aux banks.

Tom
Re: AppleWin's Debugger is still crap ... how do we fix it? [message #342855 is a reply to message #318316] Thu, 27 April 2017 20:46 Go to previous message
Michael AppleWin Debu is currently offline  Michael AppleWin Debu
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On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 9:35:06 AM UTC-7, John Public wrote:
> I'd still like to see an indicator to show whether you're in MAIN or AUX
> memory. I was reading one of the apple 2 books and it says when the computer
> starts up, you're in LCBANK2, so I'd like to see an indicator for that as well. (Yes, I'm still messing with Diversi-Dial). :)

I'm happy to say that this will be fixed in the next version of AppleWin.
You can leave feedback on GitHub Issue #406
https://github.com/AppleWin/AppleWin/issues/406

Here is a screenshot:
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/7876796/25509762/ 276a317c-2b70-11e7-82cb-5305222afcf8.png

If you want to play with a binary right now I've uploaded a nightly build with it it.
http://peopleofhonoronly.com/michael/dev/applewin/nightlybui ld/AppleWin.exe
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