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The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306318] Thu, 17 December 2015 03:50 Go to next message
Sandman is currently offline  Sandman
Messages: 97
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
Lots of spoilers here, do NOT read if you haven't seen it and don't want it
spoiled!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

So, I thought I'd comment on the movie on a more point-by-point basis. When
the Phantom Menace was released, I was very excited and left the theater
feeling good about it, but as time passed I slowly realized what a piece of
junk it was.

So when going to the Force Awakens, I felt that it was important to stay as
objective as possible, and if I enjoyed it, I would enjoy it not just because
it was Star Wars, but because it was a well made movie.

So, some comments:

Practical effects! Abrams really delivers here. Tons and tons of special
effects are practical in this movie. Sure, whenever they're flying around in
the Millenium Falcon it's all CGI, but that's where CGI works.

And there are some CGI that was unneeded, like Maz and Snoke. They could have
been people in makeup and costumes and it would have been more fitting. There
are some scenes, especially towards the end, that are obvious green screens,
but most of the settings are real and on location and obviously so.

The lead characters, Finn and Rey, do a pretty good job. While Rey being
force-sensitive is a bit of a coincidence in the whole scheme of things, the
original trilogy is also filled with similar unlikely coincidences, so I
don't mind that.

Finn doesn't really add much to the movie or to the plot, and could have been
left out entirely.

The plot is most of the time a cut'n'paste of the plot of ANH, sometimes
subtly, sometimes in your face. At times you get the feeling of "Didn't we
see exactly this" when the resistance (rebels) are seconds away of being shot
to pieces by a world-destroying weapon and fighter pilots need to do a trench
run and shot a specific target to blow it up. Or when a droid holds the map
to find Luke Skywalker, stranded on a desert planet after its owner has been
captured by the First Order (Empire), where it meets the one person that
seems to be the key to once again defeat the Sith.

Kylo Ren, being the son of Han and Leia, first sounded cheesy, but it was
actually quite well done. Him, being the son of force-sensitive Leia but
having "too much of Vader" in him made a good connection to Luke and ANH. And
while the actor playing Ren didn't feel "right" at all times, I think that
was deliberate. He is young, he has been seduced by the dark side, he is
conflicted and insecure, and the way it plays off him wanting to be as
powerful as Vader is well done. And seeing how he is wounded in the end I
predict we'll see a more powerful and more hateful version of him in movies
to come.

So - the Force then. In the start of the movie, Kylo Ren stops a blaster shot
in mid air. Not deflects it, stops it - meaning it is stuck "hovering". While
I have no problem imagining that someone powerful in the force doing this, it
felt a bit "show offy" so to speak, and felt a bit out of place.

And in the end of the movie we see Rey, recently having found out that she's
force-sensitive, successfully fighting Kylo with a light saber after having
broken out of containment using mind tricks. And yes, we saw Luke do the same
with Vader in ESB without much training, but he was clumsy and unpolished,
while Rey looks like she's been trained by a Jedi master. Even Finn puts up a
good fight with a light saber. It just felt out of place.

So, Harrison Ford did a great job with Han, and it felt 100% like Han. Very
good. Same with Chewie. Carrie Fisher, not so much. Leia is wooden, looks out
of place and just doesn't cut it. Mark Hamill is just on-screen for about 30
seconds and has no lines, but he looks awesome.

While Han is central to most of the movies plot advancement, Leia and Luke
aren't, which is good. I think the right choice is to keep these characters
low-profile and let us follow new characters.

So set design. A lot of tings are slightly updated, new storm trooper armour,
new coloring of the Tie Fighters, the X-Wings are now styled as in the old
Ralph McQuarrie designs. But most of it looks like a organic evolution and
makes sense. When inside the First Order premises, the set design is very
(*very*) similar to the Empire set design. It's a bit darker and maybe a bit
more polished, but very similar, in a good way.

The resistance base bears a striking resemblance to the Yavin base, with lots
of greenery, stone temple etc etc. Dirty and used machines and such.

There is exactly no politics in this movie - Yay! The opening crawl talks a
bit about the republic and the new perils of the new first order.

Talking about the First Order, it is visually - at least in one scene - a lot
like Nazi germany, visually. There are rows of storm troopers amidst red
banners and a man speaking to them from a central podium with a huge red
banner/flag behind him. This must have been deliberate of course, but it also
feels a bit cheap to borrow the nazi connotations so obviously.

Also, while I like the entire "drop into the story" of TFA, where not much
backstory is revealed, it seems a bit weird that the First Order managed to
build a world-destryong weapon without the resistance knowing about it in the
time between ROTJ and TFA.

But like I said, I like that we're not given a backstory to just about
anything in the start of the movie. We're promptly thrusted into the action.
Who is Finn? Who is Rey? Don't matter, just roll with it. Great! We get a bit
of a force-induced flashback of Rey but that's about it.

I also like the fact that the family bonds between Kylo and Han/Leia isn't
kept as a reveal later on. We learn early that he is their son, before it
would have been a "huge" reveal. Maybe we'll get another later (like Rey
actually being Luke's daughter).

All in all - great movie!

--
Sandman
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306320 is a reply to message #306318] Thu, 17 December 2015 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: C'Pi

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 4:50:05 PM UTC+8, Sandman wrote:
> Lots of spoilers here, do NOT read if you haven't seen it and don't want it
> spoiled!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> SPOILER SPACE!
>
> So, I thought I'd comment on the movie on a more point-by-point basis. When
> the Phantom Menace was released, I was very excited and left the theater
> feeling good about it, but as time passed I slowly realized what a piece of
> junk it was.
>
> So when going to the Force Awakens, I felt that it was important to stay as
> objective as possible, and if I enjoyed it, I would enjoy it not just because
> it was Star Wars, but because it was a well made movie.
>
> So, some comments:
>
> Practical effects! Abrams really delivers here. Tons and tons of special
> effects are practical in this movie. Sure, whenever they're flying around in
> the Millenium Falcon it's all CGI, but that's where CGI works.
>
> And there are some CGI that was unneeded, like Maz and Snoke. They could have
> been people in makeup and costumes and it would have been more fitting. There
> are some scenes, especially towards the end, that are obvious green screens,
> but most of the settings are real and on location and obviously so.
>
> The lead characters, Finn and Rey, do a pretty good job. While Rey being
> force-sensitive is a bit of a coincidence in the whole scheme of things, the
> original trilogy is also filled with similar unlikely coincidences, so I
> don't mind that.
>
> Finn doesn't really add much to the movie or to the plot, and could have been
> left out entirely.
>
> The plot is most of the time a cut'n'paste of the plot of ANH, sometimes
> subtly, sometimes in your face. At times you get the feeling of "Didn't we
> see exactly this" when the resistance (rebels) are seconds away of being shot
> to pieces by a world-destroying weapon and fighter pilots need to do a trench
> run and shot a specific target to blow it up. Or when a droid holds the map
> to find Luke Skywalker, stranded on a desert planet after its owner has been
> captured by the First Order (Empire), where it meets the one person that
> seems to be the key to once again defeat the Sith.
>
> Kylo Ren, being the son of Han and Leia, first sounded cheesy, but it was
> actually quite well done. Him, being the son of force-sensitive Leia but
> having "too much of Vader" in him made a good connection to Luke and ANH. And
> while the actor playing Ren didn't feel "right" at all times, I think that
> was deliberate. He is young, he has been seduced by the dark side, he is
> conflicted and insecure, and the way it plays off him wanting to be as
> powerful as Vader is well done. And seeing how he is wounded in the end I
> predict we'll see a more powerful and more hateful version of him in movies
> to come.
>
> So - the Force then. In the start of the movie, Kylo Ren stops a blaster shot
> in mid air. Not deflects it, stops it - meaning it is stuck "hovering". While
> I have no problem imagining that someone powerful in the force doing this, it
> felt a bit "show offy" so to speak, and felt a bit out of place.
>
> And in the end of the movie we see Rey, recently having found out that she's
> force-sensitive, successfully fighting Kylo with a light saber after having
> broken out of containment using mind tricks. And yes, we saw Luke do the same
> with Vader in ESB without much training, but he was clumsy and unpolished,
> while Rey looks like she's been trained by a Jedi master. Even Finn puts up a
> good fight with a light saber. It just felt out of place.
>
> So, Harrison Ford did a great job with Han, and it felt 100% like Han. Very
> good. Same with Chewie. Carrie Fisher, not so much. Leia is wooden, looks out
> of place and just doesn't cut it. Mark Hamill is just on-screen for about 30
> seconds and has no lines, but he looks awesome.
>
> While Han is central to most of the movies plot advancement, Leia and Luke
> aren't, which is good. I think the right choice is to keep these characters
> low-profile and let us follow new characters.
>
> So set design. A lot of tings are slightly updated, new storm trooper armour,
> new coloring of the Tie Fighters, the X-Wings are now styled as in the old
> Ralph McQuarrie designs. But most of it looks like a organic evolution and
> makes sense. When inside the First Order premises, the set design is very
> (*very*) similar to the Empire set design. It's a bit darker and maybe a bit
> more polished, but very similar, in a good way.
>
> The resistance base bears a striking resemblance to the Yavin base, with lots
> of greenery, stone temple etc etc. Dirty and used machines and such.
>
> There is exactly no politics in this movie - Yay! The opening crawl talks a
> bit about the republic and the new perils of the new first order.
>
> Talking about the First Order, it is visually - at least in one scene - a lot
> like Nazi germany, visually. There are rows of storm troopers amidst red
> banners and a man speaking to them from a central podium with a huge red
> banner/flag behind him. This must have been deliberate of course, but it also
> feels a bit cheap to borrow the nazi connotations so obviously.
>
> Also, while I like the entire "drop into the story" of TFA, where not much
> backstory is revealed, it seems a bit weird that the First Order managed to
> build a world-destryong weapon without the resistance knowing about it in the
> time between ROTJ and TFA.
>
> But like I said, I like that we're not given a backstory to just about
> anything in the start of the movie. We're promptly thrusted into the action.
> Who is Finn? Who is Rey? Don't matter, just roll with it. Great! We get a bit
> of a force-induced flashback of Rey but that's about it.
>
> I also like the fact that the family bonds between Kylo and Han/Leia isn't
> kept as a reveal later on. We learn early that he is their son, before it
> would have been a "huge" reveal. Maybe we'll get another later (like Rey
> actually being Luke's daughter).
>
> All in all - great movie!
>
> --
> Sandman

All in all - ok. Not great, just ok.

Yes, the movie looks great but it has two major problems, well, one major problem, J.J. Abrams, who causes the two major problems. It's the same two problems that are in his Star Trek movies. Everything is rushed and everything feels like a repeat of what we have seen before. For Star Trek I never had a problem with these things, but for Star Wars I do. Will J.J. ever make a movie that is not just repeating someone else's ideas? Can he? I'm beginning to wonder.

I liked Fin. Loved Rey. Really have no complaints about the characters. Gives me hope for the future movies. Unless we just get a repeat of Luke - Yoda with Luke - Rey and then a repeat of the the bad guys trying to turn the good guy. Try to be original J.J.!!
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306326 is a reply to message #306320] Thu, 17 December 2015 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandman is currently offline  Sandman
Messages: 97
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
In article <aa04ed27-3c1d-40f9-ac52-865950e7b669@googlegroups.com>, C'Pi
wrote:

>> Sandman:
>> Lots of spoilers here, do NOT read if you haven't seen it and
>> don't want it spoiled!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

SPOILER SPACE!

> All in all - ok. Not great, just ok.

> Yes, the movie looks great but it has two major problems, well, one
> major problem, J.J. Abrams, who causes the two major problems. It's
> the same two problems that are in his Star Trek movies. Everything
> is rushed and everything feels like a repeat of what we have seen
> before. For Star Trek I never had a problem with these things, but
> for Star Wars I do. Will J.J. ever make a movie that is not just
> repeating someone else's ideas? Can he? I'm beginning to wonder.

I hear you, and I agree with you - but I think it's deliberate. Meaning, in
order to win *back* the old fans, he had to go back to the roots, to what
made those movies great. Could he have done it differently? Maybe, but not
drastically differently. Remember, the train wreck that was the prequels was
largely due to it being a completely different kind of story.

Star Wars have always been the little guy against the big guy, good vs. evil,
the light and the dark side of the force. It's what captivated us 30+ years
ago and it is what can bring Star Wars back to being Star Wars again.

The original trilogy had no great story, no unique way of telling it. It as a
classic good vs. bad movie set in a visually stunning space scenario with
awesome special effects and awesome music and some really interesting design
choices that stood the test of time.

If Episode VII ever could have a chance, it had to build on what is Star Wars
at the core.

If Ep7 would have been Luke, Leia and Han thirty years later in a "what
happened then??" kind of setup, it would have been pretty underwhelming. We
obviously need a conflict, we need our "good guys" to be on the good side of
that conflict, we need the bad side to be overwhelmingly powerful.

That said, I think the parallels could have been toned down a bit without it
having a negative effect. I.e. maybe the first run on the "Oscillator" was
successful, but Finn had lied about that being the key to destroying it? So
it was all in vein?

Perhaps we didn't need a trench run, and perhaps Jakku didn't have to be a
Tatooine-like desert planet, nor maybe the droid needn't be on his own,
looking for the right person. I don't mind that this is what we got, but I
think some similarities could have been... less similar.

> I liked Fin. Loved Rey. Really have no complaints about the
> characters. Gives me hope for the future movies. Unless we just get
> a repeat of Luke - Yoda with Luke - Rey and then a repeat of the the
> bad guys trying to turn the good guy. Try to be original J.J.!!

Or don't - try to please the fans! Try to make a captivating movie using a
formula that feels right, and be creative within that formula.

Kylo Ren is a good example. He is a Darth Maul, an unknown Sith lord, but
with a twist. He is the son of Leia, naturally force sensitive and with a lot
of "Vader" in him. It works organically and logically. He is conflicted, he's
just a boy, and in the end, he makes a decision that cements his path going
forward.

The next two movies will certainly focus more on Ren, and his possible
redemption. On Luke's failure and *his* redemption.

Perhaps Snokes will try to win over Rey, maybe not. Ten already tried to lure
her over and she resisted, so another similar scene might not work story-
wise.

--
Sandman
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306378 is a reply to message #306326] Fri, 18 December 2015 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: C'Pi

It's not the heroes journey premise that bugs me. That, at least is expected. It's all the little things copied what we had already seen in the movies.. you listed many of them. There were just so many it took me out of the movie. When they showed the giant death star planet, I could help but think to myself, 'really, are you shitting me?' There was just so much of that. These are the things that keep me from calling it a great movie. It's why I feel it's just ok. That and the pace of the movies. Everything was always frantic and rushed. The original movies weren't like that. That's just J.J..'s style and I could have done without it and I think it was the major reason I did not feel like I was watching a Star Wars movie. No matter what the flaws of the PT, I still felt like I was in the Star Wars universe. A huge diverse universe. Not one were everything seems to be happening in the same place. Destroy a cluster of planets and now the entire Republic is destroyed? And it can all be seen from whatever place the first order and resistance is located? Seeing nothing really new shrank the Star Wars universe.. Not that I blame J.J. for that. That's Disney and their rush to get these movies out. One more year of planning and developing would have help I think. Maybe then they would have realized that the stormtrooper with whatever that was battling Fin with a lightsaber was just dumb. And Han has never fired Chewie's gun? Ever? And Han is surprised by it? After decades together? Dumb.
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306384 is a reply to message #306378] Fri, 18 December 2015 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandman is currently offline  Sandman
Messages: 97
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
In article <63b588d9-044b-4bbd-b8cf-9cd64b1eef04@googlegroups.com>, C'Pi
wrote:

> It's not the heroes journey premise that bugs me. That, at least is
> expected. It's all the little things copied what we had already seen
> in the movies. you listed many of them. There were just so many it
> took me out of the movie. When they showed the giant death star
> planet, I could help but think to myself, 'really, are you shitting
> me?' There was just so much of that.

Fair enough, no argument there. I will agree that the introduction of the new
"death star planet", can't remember its name, would have been more ok if it
wasn't also destroyed moments later.

It worked in ANH because it was so awesome in itself, but it's been done now.
Rather, use the weapon, build up its importance and looming danger over the
trilogy and culminate with its destruction.

In ANH, seeing how they didn't know whether they would make a sequel or not,
the destruction of the death star spelled the end of the enemy, since as far
as the viewer knew, the vast majority of the enemy personell would have been
on that death star.

In TFA, there is no such need for closure, so if they really needed to keep
the DSIII or whatever you'd call it, keep for a while longer.

Or even better, since the plot of the movie deals with finding Luke, create
the sense of urgency out of the resistance finding him before the first order
blows up the planet he is on? Perhaps Kylo was successful in getting the
location form Rey etc etc.

> These are the things that keep me from calling it a great movie.
> It's why I feel it's just ok. That and the pace of the movies.
> Everything was always frantic and rushed. The original movies
> weren't like that. That's just J.J.'s style and I could have done
> without it and I think it was the major reason I did not feel like I
> was watching a Star Wars movie.

I agree with this, with a slower pace the classic Star Wars feeling would
have been even stronger. Throw in a couple of wipe transitions and you'd been
there completely.

That said, this is less of a thing about Abrams, and more a thing about how
movies are made in 2015 vs how movies were made in 1977. slow-paced dialogues
and scenes are rare, especially in sci-fi/fantasy movies.

> No matter what the flaws of the PT, I still felt like I was in the
> Star Wars universe.

I didn't. Since the acting as so bad, due to the script being so atrocious,
there were no dialogue.

And since 75% of all scenes are filmed on a 10 meter catwalk in a green
screen room, no scene can contain any urgency. We can't have Han run after
some five storm troopers because there is no place to run.

When Anakin tells Windu that Palaptine is the sith lord, the rest of the
dialogue can only be carried out while slowly pacing down the 10 meter
catwalk (in a scene that is a huge hangar). No sense of "Shit, we need to do
something now!"

Contrast that with scenes in the OT, where the millenium falcon breaking down
results in Han scurrying around all over the ship while the empire is
shooting at them.

Or when they finally see an opening to run to the MF in the DS docking bay,
everyone is sprinting to the ship and Luke sees Kenobi and Vader.

Only places in the PT where the characters could actually move at some form
of urgency was on Tatooine (which was rarely used) and in specialized action
scenes like the droid factor or Kenobi/Anaking duel. Otherwise, all motion
was in scenes that were 99%-100% CGI

I could go on forever, of course.

> A huge diverse universe. Not one were everything
> seems to be happening in the same place.

That was one of my biggest gripes with the PT, that in spite of there
supposedly being this huge galaxy available, we still ended up on Tatooine.
Granted, in TFA, we have another very similar desert planet, but still - no
locales in TFA have been seen before, even if they may appear similar-
looking. It's sort of a bummer they didn't use this to show something more
alien-looking, of course, but still.

> Destroy a cluster of planets and now the entire Republic is
> destroyed? And it can all be seen from whatever place the first
> order and resistance is located?

More or less - they destroyed some 5-7 planets, all with one shot, all in
plain sight from each other, apparently. That was a bit odd.

> Seeing nothing really new shrank the Star Wars universe.

Only, everything you saw were new places, though. Even though rhey looked
similar to some of the old places.

> Not that I blame J.J. for that. That's Disney and their rush to get
> these movies out. One more year of planning and developing would
> have help I think. Maybe then they would have realized that the
> stormtrooper with whatever that was battling Fin with a lightsaber
> was just dumb. And Han has never fired Chewie's gun? Ever? And Han
> is surprised by it? After decades together? Dumb.

Agreed on both accounts.

--
Sandman
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306412 is a reply to message #306378] Fri, 18 December 2015 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Your Name is currently offline  Your Name
Messages: 910
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <63b588d9-044b-4bbd-b8cf-9cd64b1eef04@googlegroups.com>,
C'Pi <jas221@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> It's not the heroes journey premise that bugs me. That, at least is expected.
> It's all the little things copied what we had already seen in the movies.
> you listed many of them. There were just so many it took me out of the movie.
> When they showed the giant death star planet, I could help but think to
> myself, 'really, are you shitting me?' There was just so much of that. These
> are the things that keep me from calling it a great movie. It's why I feel
> it's just ok. That and the pace of the movies. Everything was always frantic
> and rushed. The original movies weren't like that. That's just J.J.'s style
> and I could have done without it and I think it was the major reason I did
> not feel like I was watching a Star Wars movie. No matter what the flaws of
> the PT, I still felt like I was in the Star Wars universe. A huge diverse
> universe. Not one were everything seems to be happening in the same place.
> Destroy a cluster of planets and now the entire Republic is destroyed? And it
> can all be seen from whatever place the first order and resistance is
> located? Seeing nothing really new shrank the Star Wars universe. Not that I
> blame J.J. for that. That's Disney and their rush to get these movies out.
> One more year of planning and developing would have help I think. Maybe then
> they would have realized that the stormtrooper with whatever that was
> battling Fin with a lightsaber was just dumb. And Han has never fired
> Chewie's gun? Ever? And Han is surprised by it? After decades together? Dumb.

Pretty much every review I se is saying this new movie is basically
just a re-hash of the original move / Original trilogy with Jar Jar
Abrams' own silly fank-wank ideas and Political Correctness idiocy
thrown in. Just another in the ever-growing list of Hollyweird reboot
fad crap (even if it is a slightly better fit than most of them). :-(

Of course it was almost certainly going to be a disappointment. Even
ignoring the massive expectancy from fans and the over-hyping it got,
it was simply stupid to try and extend the Saga in the first place and
even stupider to do it without George Lucas' involvement.
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306413 is a reply to message #306412] Fri, 18 December 2015 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandman is currently offline  Sandman
Messages: 97
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
In article <191220151043223421%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name wrote:

> In article <63b588d9-044b-4bbd-b8cf-9cd64b1eef04@googlegroups.com>,

>> C'Pi:
>> It's not the heroes journey premise that bugs me. That, at least
>> is expected. It's all the little things copied what we had already
>> seen in the movies. you listed many of them. There were just so
>> many it took me out of the movie. When they showed the giant death
>> star planet, I could help but think to myself, 'really, are you
>> shitting me?' There was just so much of that. These are the things
>> that keep me from calling it a great movie. It's why I feel it's
>> just ok. That and the pace of the movies. Everything was always
>> frantic and rushed. The original movies weren't like that. That's
>> just J.J.'s style and I could have done without it and I think it
>> was the major reason I did not feel like I was watching a Star
>> Wars movie. No matter what the flaws of the PT, I still felt like
>> I was in the Star Wars universe. A huge diverse universe. Not
>> one were everything seems to be happening in the same place.
>> Destroy a cluster of planets and now the entire Republic is
>> destroyed? And it can all be seen from whatever place the first
>> order and resistance is located? Seeing nothing really new shrank
>> the Star Wars universe. Not that I blame J.J. for that. That's
>> Disney and their rush to get these movies out. One more year of
>> planning and developing would have help I think. Maybe then they
>> would have realized that the stormtrooper with whatever that was
>> battling Fin with a lightsaber was just dumb. And Han has never
>> fired Chewie's gun? Ever? And Han is surprised by it? After
>> decades together? Dumb.
>
> Pretty much every review I se is saying this new movie is basically
> just a re-hash of the original move / Original trilogy with Jar Jar
> Abrams' own silly fank-wank ideas and Political Correctness idiocy
> thrown in. Just another in the ever-growing list of Hollyweird
> reboot fad crap (even if it is a slightly better fit than most of
> them). :-(

> Of course it was almost certainly going to be a disappointment. Even
> ignoring the massive expectancy from fans and the over-hyping it
> got, it was simply stupid to try and extend the Saga in the first
> place and even stupider to do it without George Lucas' involvement.

It's George Lucas that got us the prequel train wreck, thank god he wasn't
around to ruin this movie as well.

--
Sandman
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306419 is a reply to message #306413] Fri, 18 December 2015 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Your Name is currently offline  Your Name
Messages: 910
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <sandman-936356abf58287b7711fd2815c6127fa@individual.net>,
Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <191220151043223421%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name wrote:
>> In article <63b588d9-044b-4bbd-b8cf-9cd64b1eef04@googlegroups.com>,
>>> C'Pi:
>>> It's not the heroes journey premise that bugs me. That, at least
>>> is expected. It's all the little things copied what we had already
>>> seen in the movies. you listed many of them. There were just so
>>> many it took me out of the movie. When they showed the giant death
>>> star planet, I could help but think to myself, 'really, are you
>>> shitting me?' There was just so much of that. These are the things
>>> that keep me from calling it a great movie. It's why I feel it's
>>> just ok. That and the pace of the movies. Everything was always
>>> frantic and rushed. The original movies weren't like that. That's
>>> just J.J.'s style and I could have done without it and I think it
>>> was the major reason I did not feel like I was watching a Star
>>> Wars movie. No matter what the flaws of the PT, I still felt like
>>> I was in the Star Wars universe. A huge diverse universe. Not
>>> one were everything seems to be happening in the same place.
>>> Destroy a cluster of planets and now the entire Republic is
>>> destroyed? And it can all be seen from whatever place the first
>>> order and resistance is located? Seeing nothing really new shrank
>>> the Star Wars universe. Not that I blame J.J. for that. That's
>>> Disney and their rush to get these movies out. One more year of
>>> planning and developing would have help I think. Maybe then they
>>> would have realized that the stormtrooper with whatever that was
>>> battling Fin with a lightsaber was just dumb. And Han has never
>>> fired Chewie's gun? Ever? And Han is surprised by it? After
>>> decades together? Dumb.
>>
>> Pretty much every review I se is saying this new movie is basically
>> just a re-hash of the original move / Original trilogy with Jar Jar
>> Abrams' own silly fank-wank ideas and Political Correctness idiocy
>> thrown in. Just another in the ever-growing list of Hollyweird
>> reboot fad crap (even if it is a slightly better fit than most of
>> them). :-(
>
>> Of course it was almost certainly going to be a disappointment. Even
>> ignoring the massive expectancy from fans and the over-hyping it
>> got, it was simply stupid to try and extend the Saga in the first
>> place and even stupider to do it without George Lucas' involvement.
>
> It's George Lucas that got us the prequel train wreck, thank god he wasn't
> around to ruin this movie as well.

Jar Jar Abrams has managed to ruin the franchise all by himself ...
which was virtually a foregone conclusion since he's already ruined
everything else he's got his sticky talentless mitts on. :-(
Re: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS!!!!!!) [message #306434 is a reply to message #306419] Sat, 19 December 2015 04:55 Go to previous message
Sandman is currently offline  Sandman
Messages: 97
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
In article <191220151253094269%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name wrote:

>>>> C'Pi:
>>>> It's not the heroes journey premise that bugs me. That,
>>>> at least is expected. It's all the little things copied what
>>>> we had already seen in the movies. you listed many of them.
>>>> There were just so many it took me out of the movie. When they
>>>> showed the giant death star planet, I could help but think to
>>>> myself, 'really, are you shitting me?' There was just so much
>>>> of that. These are the things that keep me from calling it a
>>>> great movie. It's why I feel it's just ok. That and the pace
>>>> of the movies. Everything was always frantic and rushed. The
>>>> original movies weren't like that. That's just J.J.'s style
>>>> and I could have done without it and I think it was the major
>>>> reason I did not feel like I was watching a Star Wars movie.
>>>> No matter what the flaws of the PT, I still felt like I was in
>>>> the Star Wars universe. A huge diverse universe. Not one
>>>> were everything seems to be happening in the same place.
>>>> Destroy a cluster of planets and now the entire Republic is
>>>> destroyed? And it can all be seen from whatever place the
>>>> first order and resistance is located? Seeing nothing really
>>>> new shrank the Star Wars universe. Not that I blame J.J. for
>>>> that. That's Disney and their rush to get these movies out.
>>>> One more year of planning and developing would have help I
>>>> think. Maybe then they would have realized that the
>>>> stormtrooper with whatever that was battling Fin with a
>>>> lightsaber was just dumb. And Han has never fired Chewie's
>>>> gun? Ever? And Han is surprised by it? After decades
>>>> together? Dumb.
>>>
>>> Your Name:
>>> Pretty much every review I se is saying this new movie is
>>> basically just a re-hash of the original move / Original trilogy
>>> with Jar Jar Abrams' own silly fank-wank ideas and Political
>>> Correctness idiocy thrown in. Just another in the ever-growing
>>> list of Hollyweird reboot fad crap (even if it is a slightly
>>> better fit than most of them). :-(
>>
>>> Of course it was almost certainly going to be a disappointment.
>>> Even ignoring the massive expectancy from fans and the
>>> over-hyping it got, it was simply stupid to try and extend the
>>> Saga in the first place and even stupider to do it without
>>> George Lucas' involvement.
>>
>> Sandman:
>> It's George Lucas that got us the prequel train wreck, thank god
>> he wasn't around to ruin this movie as well.
>
> Jar Jar Abrams has managed to ruin the franchise all by himself ...

Like I said, that was done with the prequels idiocy and George Lucas. Stop
trying to fool yourself.

> which was virtually a foregone conclusion since he's already ruined
> everything else he's got his sticky talentless mitts on. :-(

Your mother?

--
Sandman
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