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The trouble with the Amiga [message #293793] Fri, 05 December 1986 11:40 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rminnich@dewey.udel.EDU
Article-I.D.: ulowell.819
Posted: Fri Dec  5 11:40:22 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 6-Dec-86 21:16:11 EST
Sender: page@ulowell.UUCP
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 27

The trouble with the Amiga is simple. I still, after almost a year
now, can not point out a set of programs to someone that will 
let them work on the Amiga as well as they can on a Mac. Can anyone?
Can I run TextCraft and paste in a DeluxePaint image from the clipboard?
Or a spreadsheet? Look at how long it takes DPaint just to start up. 
And, when I am done, the output looks just plain lousy. 
One of the major complaints on a paper I submitted was the quality
of the illustrations, done on an Amiga. And yes, i have LoadILBM and 
I have modified it to use the rast port dump. I have played with 
all the parameters. It still looks bad. 

Multitasking is wonderful. How many Amiga products really support it 
well? DeluxePaint for one takes up the whole machine. TextCraft used to. 
A lot of the early software showed (to me, anyway) that many 
DEVELOPERS did not understand multi-tasking. 

Sure, there are some really terrific programs, (InfoMinder comes
to mind) but people are going to judge an Amiga by the Mac standard.
And it fails. People just do not understand that the machine is different
and better in most ways. They only understand that it will not do what 
a Mac has done since Jan. 1984.

Things are looking up now that everyone talks IFF but there STILL IS 
NO WAY TO GET TO A CLIPBOARD! I wish I had the time to write this stuff;
so does everybody. It ought to be there now, however!

   ron
Re: The trouble with the Amiga [message #293807 is a reply to message #293793] Sat, 06 December 1986 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: ralph@mit-atrp.UUCP (Amiga-Man)
Article-I.D.: mit-amt.545
Posted: Sat Dec  6 14:21:45 1986
Date-Received: Sun, 7-Dec-86 03:40:46 EST
References: <819@ulowell.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: ralph@ATRP.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Amiga-Man)
Organization: MIT Amiga Users Group
Lines: 65
Summary: getting decent graphics printed

In article <819@ulowell.UUCP> Rminnich@dewey.udel.EDU writes:
 > The trouble with the Amiga is simple. I still, after almost a year
....
 > Or a spreadsheet? Look at how long it takes DPaint just to start up. 
 > And, when I am done, the output looks just plain lousy. 
 > One of the major complaints on a paper I submitted was the quality
 > of the illustrations, done on an Amiga. And yes, i have LoadILBM and 
 > I have modified it to use the rast port dump. I have played with 
 > all the parameters. It still looks bad. 

I have been using the "screendump" program provided by C. Scheppner(sp?)
of CBM, and by setting the correct parameters I get graphic dumps from
my IBM(oooo...) Proprinter(which I wrote my own driver for) which are
as good as that printer can perform and match up to any MAC output I've
seen. The trick was essentially working with 1-bit plane images (i.e.
black and white) and setting the parameters so the Amiga doesn't try
to dither the pixels, but instead prints them 1 to 1. Send me mail
if you need more information.

 > Multitasking is wonderful. How many Amiga products really support it 
 > well? DeluxePaint for one takes up the whole machine. TextCraft used to. 

Well, it turns out that DPaint doesn't really take up the whole machine.
If you run it in 1-bit plane, 640x400, there's enough room in the machine
to actually run the screendumper(mentioned above) at the same time.
I've even run some CLI commands. So the bottom line here is with some
amount of memory expansion (say 512K more) things would be looking up.
You have to boot the system from your normal workbench (with no fancy stuff)
and then "cd" to the DPaint disk and start it up that way.
However, I agree that thing takes WAY TOO LONG to come up. Plus....why
does EA WASTE MY TIME putting up the pretty paint can ? Just get to the action
OK. We all know it wastes time reading in that IFF file. Make it so
I can shut it off.

Long live IFF !  I hear that the standard is finding followers on other
types of PC's....
Developers take note: capatibility of files is VERY IMPORTANT !!!!
(as if anyone doubted).

I use my Amiga to do all my work now, thesis processing, numerical analysis
plotting, simple text manipulation, etc etc etc. I did have to write a few
of my own programs (like the plotting and 3-D stuff) but I'm sure glad I
have an Amiga here when every other day our Mainframe either crashes or
issues smoke. I canned the vt100 that used to be on my desk. Why use it
when I can multitask and get other work done on the Amiga while I'm waiting
for the mainframe to get stuff done (a trusty crusty PDP 11/45).
I also carry my Amiga home with me and just keep on getting
stuff done. All I need is a LCD flat screen 640x400 with a composite video
input, so then the Amiga, its keyboard and the flat screen will all fit
in a tidy suitcase. Talk about the ultimate portable..(ok...luggable).
(Make that a color LCD while you're at it...).
There's no substitute for having your own Amiga to develop tools on.
When I graduate, my future employer not only gets me, but get me with all the
analysis and graphics tools I created to make me work better. Bank on the
fact that I'll probably make them buy me an Amiga 2000 for my office.
This is the future of the engineer and scientist ! I'm psyched !

Oh Commodore...if you only seeded Amigas here at MIT like apple and ibm do,
things would really get rolling..... .    MIT sells poor unsuspecting
freshmen IBM's and Apples at special discount prices without even informing
them of the Amiga and its capability......wanna work out a deal ????
Our Amiga group here is already 90 strong, with no incentives at all.

                                        Ralph,
                                        A Gradual Student at MIT
Re: The trouble with the Amiga [message #293810 is a reply to message #293793] Sat, 06 December 1986 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: lyles@tybalt.caltech.edu (Lyle N. Scheer)
Article-I.D.: cit-vax.1292
Posted: Sat Dec  6 16:02:21 1986
Date-Received: Sun, 7-Dec-86 03:45:46 EST
References: <819@ulowell.UUCP> <545@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>
Sender: news@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu
Reply-To: lyles@tybalt.caltech.edu.UUCP (Lyle N. Scheer)
Distribution: net
Organization: Calfornia Institute of Technology
Lines: 20
Summary: Educational discounts?

In article <545@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> ralph@ATRP.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Amiga-Man) writes:
 > 
 > Oh Commodore...if you only seeded Amigas here at MIT like apple and ibm do,
 > things would really get rolling..... .    MIT sells poor unsuspecting
 > freshmen IBM's and Apples at special discount prices without even informing
 > them of the Amiga and its capability......wanna work out a deal ????
 > Our Amiga group here is already 90 strong, with no incentives at all.
 > 
 >                                         Ralph,
 >                                         A Gradual Student at MIT

Yes! Yes!  Commodore, get your act together.  The largest groups of Amiga
owners I have seen have been college students.  Get an educational discount
system going(go for the high schools as well).  It would do more for the
Amiga than anything else I know.

					Wonko the Sane
				      (you call this SANE??)

Disclaimer: I am totally irresponsible.  So shoot me then.
Re: The trouble with the Amiga [message #293842 is a reply to message #293793] Sun, 07 December 1986 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brent is currently offline  brent
Messages: 18
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Article-I.D.: well.2176
Posted: Sun Dec  7 18:36:54 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 8-Dec-86 02:08:25 EST
References: <819@ulowell.UUCP>
Reply-To: brent@well.UUCP (Brent Southard)
Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito CA
Lines: 8

eat me, lineeater.

Wrong on at least two points:
  DeluxePaint DOES NOT tie up the machine.
  There is a Clipboard device, it just hasn't been implemented yet by many
developers.  This is a shame, but things are changing.

brent
Re: The trouble with the Amiga [message #293869 is a reply to message #293793] Mon, 08 December 1986 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
miner is currently offline  miner
Messages: 7
Registered: December 1985
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Article-I.D.: ulowell.833
Posted: Mon Dec  8 11:08:18 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 8-Dec-86 23:57:59 EST
References: <819@ulowell.UUCP> <545@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> <1292@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>
Reply-To: miner@ulowell.UUCP (Richard Miner)
Distribution: net
Organization: University of Lowell
Lines: 32

In article <1292@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> (Lyle N. Scheer) writes:
 > In article <545@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>  (Amiga-Man) writes:
 >> 
 >> Oh Commodore...if you only seeded Amigas here at MIT like apple and ibm do,
 >> things would really get rolling..... . 
 >> Our Amiga group here is already 90 strong, with no incentives at all.
 >>                               Ralph, A Gradual Student at MIT
 > Yes! Yes!  Commodore, get your act together.  The largest groups of Amiga
 > owners I have seen have been college students.  Get an educational discount
 > system going(go for the high schools as well).
 > 	Wonko the Sane (you call this SANE??)

I third the motion for educational support, and have talk to Commodore about
it.  They are planning on starting educational support, lets hope that it
happens soon.  If you want to help things out at your local Univerities, one
thing that you should probably do is contact both your University bookstore
and your local Amiga Distributor (not dealer).  Have the distributor contact
the book store about becoming an Amiga dealer.   I was down at Chapel Hill
almost a year ago and they had done this.  

I just recently mentioned it to our local distributor, they seemed like the 
thought never entered their mind!  I could not even begin to imagine how many 
Amigas they would sell if if they could set up all the local NE Schools as
dealers.  It's not only one of the best machines for students, but with 
ethernet and NFS now available, set up a lab with a FileServer and 10 Amigas
and you save $100,000.  Anyone thinking of porting Sun-NeWs?  How about you
90 MIT hackers porting X-Windows?
-- 
Rich Miner     ...!wanginst!ulowell!miner    
University of Lowell, Comp Sci Dept  (617) 452-5000 x2693
HAL hears the 9000 series is not selling. "Please explain Dave. Why 
aren't HAL's selling?"  Bowman hesitates. "You aren't Amiga compatible."
Re: The trouble with the Amiga [message #293890 is a reply to message #293793] Tue, 09 December 1986 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bj is currently offline  bj
Messages: 2
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Article-I.D.: well.2179
Posted: Tue Dec  9 03:45:10 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 10-Dec-86 02:53:38 EST
References: <819@ulowell.UUCP>
Reply-To: bj@well.UUCP (Jim Becker)
Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito CA
Lines: 25
Summary: total and complete agreement



This posting really hits home.. I find that this is really the truth
of the matter in the use of the machine. Where are all the great applications
that can be developed ?? I know that a lot of you are "real busy" but
dread that a lot of it is games.. 

I still have my Mac Plus, and the only thing that I use it for is MacWrite,
because nothing on the Amiga supports text and graphics and fonts. Why ?
The IIGS already has these packages announced and reviewed in InfoWorld.

I would be interested in putting together a set of information about those
persons doing real work on the Amiga, and distribute the projects and the
people names on Public domain disks. It is really frustrating to see all the
enthusiasum for the Amiga but still nothing that can really impress people
as much as the programs for the Amiga should be able to.. Sorry for this
flame, I guess I have seen too much work go into the Amiga without it going
where it should - to the moon.

If there is interest in getting together a list of all the people doing
work post me mail. I can put it together in InfoMinder format and make it
available to everybody. Thanks.

-Jim Becker
Terrapin Software
Re: The trouble with the Amiga [message #293932 is a reply to message #293793] Tue, 09 December 1986 09:48 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: conte@uicsrd.CSRD.UIUC.EDU
Article-I.D.: uicsrd.42600006
Posted: Tue Dec  9 09:48:00 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 13-Dec-86 22:33:58 EST
References: <819@ulowell.UUCP>
Lines: 56
Nf-ID: #R:ulowell.UUCP:819:uicsrd:42600006:000:2914
Nf-From: uicsrd.CSRD.UIUC.EDU!conte    Dec  9 08:48:00 1986



 >  The trouble with the Amiga is simple. I still, after almost a year
 >  now, can not point out a set of programs to someone that will 
 >  let them work on the Amiga as well as they can on a Mac. Can anyone?

First, you are comparing apples and oranges :-).  As you said, after
almost a year... Apple... etc.  Give the Amiga time.  I see two adds
in the Jan/Feb Amigaworld that look promising for Mac-alike word processing.
(Check out ProWrite (p. 13) and PageSetter (p. 79)).

 >  One of the major complaints on a paper I submitted was the quality
 >  of the illustrations, done on an Amiga. And yes, i have LoadILBM and 
 >  I have modified it to use the rast port dump. I have played with 
 >  all the parameters. It still looks bad. 

Hang in there.  The Mac took a while too.  You chose to be different,
you bought newer technology (Amiga vs. Mac) and now you have to live
with the growing pains of that technology.  There is no doubt the power
is there in the Amiga, there is no doubt developers want to provide
Amiga owners with the same or better features as Mac's.  Hold out, you
did the Right Thing.

 >  Multitasking is wonderful. How many Amiga products really support it 
 >  well? DeluxePaint for one takes up the whole machine. TextCraft used to. 
 >  A lot of the early software showed (to me, anyway) that many 
 >  DEVELOPERS did not understand multi-tasking. 

TextCraft is the strangest program I have ever seen.  It appears that
its authors didn't want to use the Intuition interface at all and just
brewed their own.  That's not so great, considering it was one of the
first programs out for the machine.  A lot of the bugs I hear about
seem to say that it was developed without any idea what the software
for the machine would be like.  My advice: throw it out.

 >  Sure, there are some really terrific programs, (InfoMinder comes
 >  to mind) but people are going to judge an Amiga by the Mac standard.
 >  And it fails. People just do not understand that the machine is different
 >  and better in most ways. They only understand that it will not do what 
 >  a Mac has done since Jan. 1984.

...and do more and less.  People are going to have to realize that the Amiga
is not another Mac.  They don't seem to compare the IBM to the Mac and
say, "ho hum, guess I'll buy a Macintosh."  The Amiga is an Amiga.  It
can do many Mac-like things, it can do many IBM things (SideCar/Transformer).
It can also do Amiga things.  They are starting to understand it's different.
You bought your machine just a little after mine, and we both knew the machine
was still in its development stage.  Now it is `giving birth,' and gaining
mass appeal, hang in there.


Tom Conte      University of Illinois
uucp:	 {ihnp4,seismo,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!uicsrd!conte
arpanet: conte%uicsrd@a.cs.uiuc.edu  or  conte@huey.udel.edu
csnet:	 conte%uicsrd@uiuc.csnet	usnail: 208 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL 61801
bitnet:	 conte@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu
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