Article-I.D.: 3comvax.355
Posted: Fri Jan 17 18:54:48 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 20-Jan-86 04:58:39 EST
References: <37@sbcs.UUCP> <402@tekig5.UUCP> <1302@sdcsvax.UUCP> <635@ark.UUCP>
Reply-To: mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz)
Distribution: net
Organization: 3Com Corp; Mountain View, CA
Lines: 97
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:1618 net.micro.atari:2455
Summary: 


I don't think anyone has ever indicated that anyone would buy the Amiga
because it has a higher price than the ST, just that people who are
going to spend $2000 for a computer will not even consider the ST, or
any other less expensive computer.  On the other hand, those who want to
buy a $400 computer won't buy a $2000 Amiga or a $1500 Mac or a $1000
Apple II.

Consider this:  you own a business and are going to spend $3000-$6000 for
a personal computer.  The Amiga with 80MB of hard disk and 8.5MB RAM costs
about the same as an AT, but there is quite a difference in the quality of
the two standards (state of the art relative...).  This large Amiga is
a real impressive standard, and Amiga is making a standard.  Atari's
ST seems to be a follower of existing standards (Mac, Gem...), not the
trendsetter for the next generation of computers.  Not a single posting
has convinced me that the Amiga will end up sitting on a shelf in my 
closet somewhere any faster than the ST - as a matter of fact, it seems
like the ST will find the shelf years (literally years) before the Amiga
will.

Amiga (and Commodore) was not at the CES show in Las Vegas, and most of
the 3rd party people there had ST stuff.  It may seem like a bad indicator
for the Amiga, but IBM wasn't there either.  Sales figures for November show
that the Amiga sold 4% of the computer market and the Mac 7% (I wish I had
figures for the ST).  The Palo Alto Times reported recently that the ST was
outselling the Amiga locally anywhere from 2-1 to 5-1 (but the Amiga isn'y
going to disappear).  However, the C128 outsold everything 5-1 during the
same time.  

Other news of note:  Nintendo sold 250,000 stand alone video game machines
(similar to the Atari 5200) over Christmas in a test market several east
coast cities (talk about things running in circles).  Also, the Aztec 'C'
compiler should become the compiler of choice, but there is one problem
that I have heard about with it - ints are 16 bits.  A simple typedef should
solve the problem, but it is somewhat unfortunate.

I think we all can expect some real exciting things from Commodore and
Amiga in the future.  The Amiga lacks a product that differentiates it
from all the other computers around.  The Mac is a fine desktop publisher,
and for that reason alone (my opinion) it might be worth the price.  THe
Amiga does not do all the fancy stuff yet, but there is little doubt in
my mind that someone will do a MacWrite style program (how about Microsoft
Word for the Amiga).  The Amiga can do everything the Mac or ST or PC can
do, given a little software.  The other's can only do everything the Amiga
can by adding HARDWARE.
can by adding HARDWARE.  While other manufacturers are adding hardware to
provide color (color monitors, graphics boards), speech (votrax), and
music (MIDI), Amiga owners will be adding hardware like STEREO AUDIO 
DIGITIZERS and FRAME GRABBERS.  Facts are facts: the Amiga, when it
matures, will be light years ahead of all its competition, technologically,
and folks like IBM, Apple, and Atari will take at least 2 years to catch
up to what the Amiga is now.

I do not mean any of what I said above to be criticism of any of the
other machines.  Rather, I tried to present facts and details of the
Amiga (and used other computers for comparison).  I don't think I need to
defend my purchase of the Amiga to anyone but myself (and I don't have a
single regret), and I don't think that ST owners need to defend theirs.
Amiga vs. ST is a silly debate, since neither threatens the other in
the marketplace, and the similarities between the two only consists of
WINDOWS, the MOUSE, and the 68000.  Beyond these features, the two
machines are very different.  I don't think that the Amiga is a better
machine (I also don't think that the ST is a better machine), although
it is (ST is too...) much better than the IBM PC standard and the hardware
is better than the Mac (software is a different story).  I do think the
Amiga is the most advanced technology you can buy for under $5000, but the
ST is damn good, too (at even the same price as the Amiga).

I was tempted to stop writing things to post to the newsgroup, because I
am pretty much a novice, and a few people have posted public requests that
I not write.  However, from the E-Mail I get, Mac people want to be
ignorant of the technology that is burying the Mac (don't post stuff to
net.mac...), and Atari and Amiga folks LIKE MY STUFF (3 to 1).  I think
this indicates that net.micro.amiga means more to some people than just a
place to get free software (a real selfish attitude in my opinion).  My
feelings are that the ST vs. Amiga type debates are of interest to a
lot of people (look at all the responses), and to a few they are a bore.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ ALL OF net.micro.amiga, USE THE DAMN 'N' key
and skip the stuff you don't want to read.  Or send me nasty E-MAIL -
if I get enough, I WILL STOP.

P.S.  I would like to see more graphics oriented discussions posted to
the newsgroup.  Has anyone used the ROM Kernel Graphics and Animation
routines yet?  A neat program to post would be a "sprite" or Blitter
Object editor with animation.  Something like IconEd, except that by
sequencing through a set of patterns over time, animations can be
produced.  I know quite a bit about graphics and animation and sounds,
from doing several C64, ColecoVision, VCS, and Coin-op games, and
I am willing to share my expertise.  However, I won't have time to
do a whole lot of programming on my Amiga for a few weeks, so I won't
be able to investigate these routines myself.  However, if someone needs
some assistance, send me E-MAIL, or post questions to the net.  If I can't
answer the questions, a lot of guys at Amiga will probably jump at the
chance to help.  The area of graphics and animation seems to be the one
area that noone has done any major work (Mandelbrots is neat, but it did
not use any of the gels, etc.).  Multi-tasking via the Exec routines would
be nice, too.