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2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276880] Tue, 30 December 2014 14:24 Go to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Hello

I think this is the right place to post.

I have a 2400c that I purchased about 7 years ago. I knew it was dead at
the time but I bought it anyway, for obvious reasons.

I have been told that it might be the PRAM that is keeping it from lighting
up. I have another 2400c that works so I know I have a working PSU.

I also understand that I have to take the machine entirely apart to remove
the PRAM battery as a test.


*Questions:*

Does anyone know a good link showing a 2400 takeapart? I have been
searching around but nothing worthy comes up.

Also, If you have taken one apart is it a very complex takeapart? I have
done eMacs and iMac G3s and powerbook pismos to install RAM and hard
drives. In the case of the eMac it was a complete takeapart aside from the
CRT.

Any advice or links would be greatly apprecaited.

*Other*:

I might want to change the HD on this fellow, any recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276888 is a reply to message #276880] Tue, 30 December 2014 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Kershaw is currently offline  Andrew Kershaw
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On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Alex Santos <santos.poland@gmail.com> wrote:

> Questions:
>
> Does anyone know a good link showing a 2400 takeapart? I have been searching around but nothing worthy comes up.
>
> Also, If you have taken one apart is it a very complex takeapart? I have done eMacs and iMac G3s and powerbook pismos to install RAM and hard drives. In the case of the eMac it was a complete takeapart aside from the CRT.
>
> Any advice or links would be greatly apprecaited.

Green Light of Death (GLOD) is a common occurrence on these machines. It’s usually (but not always) related to a dead PRAM battery, so you are probably on the right track.

I’m not aware of a good take apart guide. There used to be Apple service manuals (PDFs) hanging around the internet that showed how to get in and out of these vintage machines, but I don’t have a good link handy. You could probably Google for PowerBook 2400c service manual and see what turns up. A take apart on any PowerBook is not really a “difficult” proposition, but it can be very tedious and time consuming. From what I remember of the 2400c, there were an absurd number of screws in the thing, and you’ll want to be diligent about keeping track of which screws go where. I like to make a visual/spatial map on a sheet of paper and number the screws in the order I take them out of the machine. Roughly where I put them on the paper corresponds to where in 2 dimensions they were installed in the machine. I might be a little anal about it…

Fortunately for the 2400c, most were Philips screws instead of Apple’s favorite torx/star screw, so a couple of jeweler’s screw drivers should do the trick. A #0 and #00 will probably be needed. In terms of difficulty, I’d place it well beyond Pismo land (trivial, especially for RAM installs) but somewhere right under an aluminum G4. Like the G4, the 2400c requires a complete tear down and removal of the motherboard to replace the hard drive, IIRC.

Good luck. Take pictures as you go and post them online for future reference by other owners!

-
Andrew

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276897 is a reply to message #276888] Tue, 30 December 2014 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Kershaw is currently offline  Andrew Kershaw
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On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Andrew Kershaw <alk@mac.com> wrote:

>
> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Alex Santos <santos.poland@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Questions:
>>
>> Does anyone know a good link showing a 2400 takeapart? I have been searching around but nothing worthy comes up.
>>
>> Also, If you have taken one apart is it a very complex takeapart? I have done eMacs and iMac G3s and powerbook pismos to install RAM and hard drives. In the case of the eMac it was a complete takeapart aside from the CRT.
>>
>> Any advice or links would be greatly apprecaited.
>
>
> I’m not aware of a good take apart guide. There used to be Apple service manuals (PDFs) hanging around the internet that showed how to get in and out of these vintage machines, but I don’t have a good link handy. You could probably Google for PowerBook 2400c service manual and see what turns up.



30 seconds on Yahoo! found these two good links:

http://www.kevinomura.com/powerbooks/powerbook2400c/

http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/powerbook/powerbook_2400c.pdf

Wait… why am I doing your searching for you?!

Peace,
Andrew

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276916 is a reply to message #276888] Tue, 30 December 2014 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Hi Andrew

Thank you very much for the courteous reply, the difficulty level I should
expect, the tips on tools and steps to take so as to not loose any of the
screws.

The eMac, I have to say was a very intense affair, especially when it came
to keeping track of screws and I was tracking screws by taping them down to
the the pages of the service manual. This helped me when going in reverse.

Although the affected 2400c in questions doesn't have GLOD, it simply
doesn't respond to power the last time I checked. I intend to take it apart
with care and when I do, I most certainly will document the process and
share it online. I will make an announcement here once I do this.

I did find the original service manual for the Powerbook 2400c, it is quite
easy to find and I hope finds it flattering that some of us continue to
care for our wonderful old macs. I will treat it as a labor of love.

Best
Alex

On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 21:07:55 UTC+1, Andrew Kershaw wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Alex Santos <santos...@gmail.com
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
> *Questions:*
>
> Does anyone know a good link showing a 2400 takeapart? I have been
> searching around but nothing worthy comes up.
>
> Also, If you have taken one apart is it a very complex takeapart? I have
> done eMacs and iMac G3s and powerbook pismos to install RAM and hard
> drives. In the case of the eMac it was a complete takeapart aside from the
> CRT.
>
> Any advice or links would be greatly apprecaited.
>
>
> Green Light of Death (GLOD) is a common occurrence on these machines.
> It’s usually (but not always) related to a dead PRAM battery, so you are
> probably on the right track.
>
> I’m not aware of a good take apart guide. There used to be Apple service
> manuals (PDFs) hanging around the internet that showed how to get in and
> out of these vintage machines, but I don’t have a good link handy. You
> could probably Google for PowerBook 2400c service manual and see what turns
> up. A take apart on any PowerBook is not really a “difficult” proposition,
> but it can be very tedious and time consuming. From what I remember of the
> 2400c, there were an absurd number of screws in the thing, and you’ll want
> to be diligent about keeping track of which screws go where. I like to
> make a visual/spatial map on a sheet of paper and number the screws in the
> order I take them out of the machine. Roughly where I put them on the
> paper corresponds to where in 2 dimensions they were installed in the
> machine. I might be a little anal about it…
>
> Fortunately for the 2400c, most were Philips screws instead of Apple’s
> favorite torx/star screw, so a couple of jeweler’s screw drivers should do
> the trick. A #0 and #00 will probably be needed. In terms of difficulty,
> I’d place it well beyond Pismo land (trivial, especially for RAM installs)
> but somewhere right under an aluminum G4. Like the G4, the 2400c requires
> a complete tear down and removal of the motherboard to replace the hard
> drive, IIRC.
>
> Good luck. Take pictures as you go and post them online for future
> reference by other owners!
>
> -
> Andrew
>

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276924 is a reply to message #276897] Tue, 30 December 2014 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Oh well, thank you for documenting some links. Thank you.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276941 is a reply to message #276897] Wed, 31 December 2014 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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OK

After purchasing this machine as a dead on arrival almost 6 years ago I
finally opened it up. Not that pretty.

1) I took photos along the way and will share them to iCloud on a site
using iPhoto (will do that later and report back)

2) The person who sold has ripped the cable connecting the trackpad to the
MLB. So I will need to source a replacement somewhere but first to see if
the machine works

3) Machine is now in parts

4) The HD has been removed without my knowledge, it was never reported as
such when sold but it's clear he opened it up.

5) I have yet to check power but have to figure out how to flip the MLB
over to the other side although I do see the PRAM battery

6) One cable was found detached but I believe I know where it goes, it's
the single cable coming from part 9222-2990 (structure assembly - see
Apple's service source exploded view), oddly I do not know what it does
because the cable attaches to the MLB but I don't know what purpose it
serves since the cable leads to a small component on the said part but the
part is simply screwed on to the assembly. Does anyone know what it does? I
believe it attaches to J1 on the MLB
Question:
Is it safe to plug in the power with monitor detached? I doubt it so I will
add it back


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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276949 is a reply to message #276897] Wed, 31 December 2014 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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I also discovered that the CPU card does not have it's cage. I am not sure
how necessary this part is, I believe it's an EMI shield.

I connected a confirmed working power supply to the 2400 with the display
connected and keyboard connected, trackpad not. I hear no startup chime.

Any ideas?

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276957 is a reply to message #276888] Wed, 31 December 2014 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Andrew

I am trying to isolate the issue. So far no power but I heard a tiny tick
when plugging in the power supply to the IO & power supply board and Logic
Board and keyboard. Only those three components connected. Display not
connected while doing this.

The boards, everything looks super clean, no cuts, no scratches, no bulging
capacitors.

I am not sure where to go with this right now.

Can this computer be turned on from the Apple Extended keyboard connected
to ADB? If so I could try this way.

Any help on New Year's Eve would be appreciated, although everyone is
likely out having a few well deserved drinks :)

Alex

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276968 is a reply to message #276941] Wed, 31 December 2014 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Re point 6

Ok, this is the reset switch and I found out where it gets connected to on
the logic board.


> 6) One cable was found detached but I believe I know where it goes, it's
> the single cable coming from part 9222-2990 (structure assembly - see
> Apple's service source exploded view), oddly I do not know what it does
> because the cable attaches to the MLB but I don't know what purpose it
> serves since the cable leads to a small component on the said part but the
> part is simply screwed on to the assembly. Does anyone know what it does? I
> believe it attaches to J1 on the MLB
>

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276979 is a reply to message #276968] Wed, 31 December 2014 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Kershaw is currently offline  Andrew Kershaw
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> On Dec 31, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Alex Santos <santos.poland@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Re point 6
>
> Ok, this is the reset switch and I found out where it gets connected to on the logic board.

That's a momentary switch meaning it's normally open and only closes when you push on it. Not having it connected shouldn't matter... unless you actually mean to press the switch like you would to reset the PMU... Which is something you should probably do.

FWIW, I have no idea how much equipment needs to be installed and connected to get it to boot. At a minimum I'd think the PMU, logic board, and CPU. I concur that the EMI cage over the ram probably isn't necessary (but you never know, apple may have tied it into the ground circuit somehow). The display, keyboard, and trackpad probably aren't either. All Macs with ADB and a soft power switch (which excludes some 68k machines) boot using the ADB keyboard power switch, so plug in one of those, a speaker, and listen for a chime. Even the chimes of death (breaking glass) would be instructive. But reset the PMU first.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276987 is a reply to message #276968] Wed, 31 December 2014 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Just to be extra clear, the rest switch on the back of the 2400c/180 is
connected to the logic board, this tiny button was not connected to the
logic board. It now is.

Re point 6
>
> Ok, this is the reset switch and I found out where it gets connected to on
> the logic board.
>
>
>> 6) One cable was found detached but I believe I know where it goes, it's
>> the single cable coming from part 9222-2990 (structure assembly - see
>> Apple's service source exploded view), oddly I do not know what it does
>> because the cable attaches to the MLB but I don't know what purpose it
>> serves since the cable leads to a small component on the said part but the
>> part is simply screwed on to the assembly. Does anyone know what it does? I
>> believe it attaches to J1 on the MLB
>>
>

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #276997 is a reply to message #276979] Wed, 31 December 2014 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Hi Andrew

Thanks for chiming back, I am attempting a reset between seeing your
message and writing this. I will report back. So far, I can only hear a
very short pop, tick sound coming from the speaker after holding the reset
for the 10 20 seconds as per http://support.apple.com/ja-jp/HT1781



One little correction, the CPU card, connected towards the bottom of the
logic board is not what I thought should have an EMI shield, I was looking
at the cardbus cage. Sorry for any confusion.

I discovered that one does not have to totally take-apart the 2400c. With
the machine facing you, it's enough to disconnect the PRAM battery. Once
the logic board is exposed J11 is the PRAM connector. J7 is the speaker.
J9, which is just above J11 I am unable to determine as to its use.

Are there schematics for 2400c anywhere?

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277006 is a reply to message #276979] Wed, 31 December 2014 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Short progress report.

As you know there is no HD in place but that's ok, I can create a bootable
floppy with a minimal system on a powerbook G3 or even my other 2400

Some interesting things:
1) Attached keyboard
2) When attaching display cables, 2 of which socket right to the MLB, a
third has a hole and I believe it is ground. I had to fasten it down with
tape until I can source a screw for it.
4) SDRAM back in the slot.
3) I held down the reset key when powering up and got a steady green light
at the top.

TO DO:
I will continue trying resets
Note: PRAM battery remains disconnected.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Was completely dead whereas now I have a steady green light (is this GLOD?)

Alex

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277015 is a reply to message #276997] Wed, 31 December 2014 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
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> On Dec 31, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Alex Santos <santos.poland@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> Thanks for chiming back, I am attempting a reset between seeing your message and writing this. I will report back. So far, I can only hear a very short pop, tick sound coming from the speaker after holding the reset for the 10 20 seconds as per http://support.apple.com/ja-jp/HT1781
>
>

I've never worked on a 2400, but from my experience with the Pismo G3 the CPU card can be difficult to seat properly; it takes a lot of force, to the point of the logic board making ominous creaking noises. You may want to check that.

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277026 is a reply to message #277015] Wed, 31 December 2014 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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That's a great point. Your suggestion reminds of a powerbook G3,
model M4753 (300Mz) that I bought, it too was dead. I simply took it apart,
everything upon visual inspection checked out. I went as far as removing
the CPU daughter card and putting it all back together again and I had a
lovely chime. It works like a charm and set me back about the equivalent of
10 bucks.

At the moment, I believe my 2400 suffers from GLOT (Glowing Light of Death)
mode. I will take apart the 2400 again and carefully check the CPU card. I
did not detach the CPU nor the power board. What little I could visually
see of the power board looked fine, capacitors and the like.

I also took some photos of the process but two things bothered me about my
photo logs.
1) This 2400 was obviously taken apart in the past and was not put back
together correctly, cables left detached, screws missing and perhaps screws
no in their right places. This leave me how I accurate I might be able to
present things on my site.
2) I need to be much more methodical about the process.

Taking it apart again to go through the CPU daughter card will encourage me
to take new photos and better document a visual process.

Thanks for your input.

…from my experience with the Pismo G3 the CPU card can be difficult to seat
> properly; it takes a lot of force, to the point of the logic board making
> ominous creaking noises. You may want to check that.
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
>
> "Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
>
>

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277054 is a reply to message #276880] Thu, 01 January 2015 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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For posterity's
sake, https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/5395-2400c-query/ ?hl=powerbook+2400c

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277064 is a reply to message #276880] Thu, 01 January 2015 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Hubatka is currently offline  Jeff Hubatka
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On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:24:05 AM UTC-8, Alex Santos wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I think this is the right place to post.
>
> I have a 2400c that I purchased about 7 years ago. I knew it was dead at
> the time but I bought it anyway, for obvious reasons.
>
>
I'll be interested to see your take-apart photos. I also have a 2400C that
I purchased some time ago. It seems to boot but will not display video. I
tried hooking an external vga monitor up but still no joy, it's been
sitting in a box for at least the last three years.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277082 is a reply to message #277064] Thu, 01 January 2015 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Hi Jeff

You should definitely take it apart, you don't have to go too far. Follow
the Apple service source manual to take it apart far enough and you will
find near the top left side of the logic board, tucked neatly under the
keyboard the connectors to the display. I would guess they have loosed
themselves.

I composed this message using Safari and chose to add the graphic through
the toolbar offered by the Google interface. I hope it shows up. If it
does, I marked three regions in red, the first two on the left are small
connectors that the cables from the display plug into and the circular one
to the right of those two is what I believe is a grounding plug, secured by
a screw. It should take you about 15 minutes to do. You need only remove
the battery, disengage from power to do this.

If your 2400 was never opened, the first two screws are concealed by two
round disc shaped covers that you should remove using double sided tape,
the idea is to pull the two discs out to get access to the screws without
damaging the discs. Using double sided tape will help remove them without
damage. You can then reglue those discs.

I personally think the 2400 takeapart is not as difficult as people have
made it out to be. It's a matter of staying organized with screws and
parts. Documenting things with pictures or short iPhone videos helps with
that effort.



< https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Lc-dNcJq388/VKV28OaaS6I/A AAAAAAAAR0/w4q9ym8bKJ8/s1600/2184569072_46709ab3d7_o.jpg>



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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277092 is a reply to message #277064] Thu, 01 January 2015 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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It might not display video out, I am guessing, because you can't select
that output from the control panel. Not sure though.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277126 is a reply to message #277054] Thu, 01 January 2015 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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A further observation. I noticed the toggling the reset switch on the back
of the machine is exhibiting behavior of an an/off switch. Press it, GLoD,
press it again, GLoD switches off and this repeats. Also accompanying this
observation is the built-in speaker making a small click, much like the one
heard just before a startup chime.

Just thought I would share this.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277144 is a reply to message #277064] Fri, 02 January 2015 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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I'll be taking apart the 2400 again today so that I can disengage the CPU
daughtercard and throughout the process I will take photos and document it.
I will post back once it's done. I will share the link.

Alex

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277192 is a reply to message #277144] Fri, 02 January 2015 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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No takeapart yet but for now here is good Japanese page on the topic.

http://hibinobinobi.blog88.fc2.com/blog-category-2.html

You can install this javascript in Safari or a different browser to quickly
translate. Or you can use the normal google translate page. I prefer the
javascript because I am often using Safari and I find this better than some
of the Safari extensions - or just use Chrome.

javascript:var%20t=((window.getSelection&&window.get Selection())%7C%7C(document.getSelection&&document.g etSelection())%7C%7C(document.selection&&document.se lection.createRange&&document.selection.createRange( ).text));var%20e=(document.charset%7C%7Cdocument.characterSe t);if(t!='')%7Blocation.href='http://translate.google.com/translate_t?text= '+t+'&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&tbb=1&ie='+e; %7Delse%7Blocation.href='http://translate.google.com/translate?u= '+escape(location.href)+'&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen&a mp;tbb=1&ie='+e;%7D;

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277388 is a reply to message #276979] Sun, 04 January 2015 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Well, here are some photos of the take
apart, https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A25nhQST7SoJE

The photos are pretty much in order but the last photos are of the PRAM
battery both sides.

I have completely taken apart the machine and put it all back together but
I am at the same place. I don't see anything that is suspicious.

I don't have some comments,
1) I am a little surprised that the PCMCIA unit is so close to the main
logic board. I wonder if it is causing a short or if it is just that way.
It doesn't seem to have any non conductive material between it and the
logic board but I am left wondering about that. Perhaps I should have
removed it when testing.
2) I removed the CPU daughter card, as suggested and reinserted it. I used
significant force but not enough to cause any harm.

I still get the solid green light.

If you take a look at the photos maybe you see something that I don't?

I am willing to take it apart again and take more photos if you think it
helps.

Best

PS If you would like me to add some detail to the images, please let me
know and I will add some context.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277397 is a reply to message #277064] Sun, 04 January 2015 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Take apart photos are up https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A25nhQST7SoJE


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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277410 is a reply to message #276897] Sun, 04 January 2015 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Andrew

I removed the PRAM battery, it's no longer in the machine.

I tried the following but issue persists.

1) Attached power adapter
2) held down the reset from the back of the machine between 10-20 seconds
3) repeat step 2

Green light is solid, no change.

Any other ideas or should I shelve this project.

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277420 is a reply to message #277410] Sun, 04 January 2015 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew Kershaw is currently offline  Andrew Kershaw
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The only other avenues I've heard of are replacing the PMU and replacing all the fuses. It seems like you could try replacing all the capacitors, too, but I don't recall anyone trying that specifically. It seems to me that capacitor failure is a much more likely scenario than fuse failure. A failed cap is not always visually distinctive...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Repair-your-electronics-by-r eplacing-blown-capacit/

If you aren't handy with a multimeter and a soldering iron, I would probably shelve the project at this point.

Good luck!

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Re: 2400 takeapart advice/experience [message #277429 is a reply to message #277420] Sun, 04 January 2015 17:13 Go to previous message
Alex Santos is currently offline  Alex Santos
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Hi Andrew

Thanks for the link. I've also watched quite a few videos of folks
repairing devices, countless times it's just the caps. It looks fairly easy.

I will read up on the multimeter to learn. I hope it's not too difficult. I
just feel sad to see this little machine sit without seeing the light of
day. I want to give it a second life and it could be a nice way to learn a
new skill. So many electronics end up in the landfill because people don't
know or can't be bothered to fix things.

I hope to avoid the landfill scenario. These machines are just too special.
It would sit on my shelf collecting dust instead. I will take the plunge
and get a multimeter and a decent soldering iron and a wick.

If you would like to recommend a brand name or device I will look for it on
NewEgg because they actually ship to Poland.

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