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Apple Mail questions [message #274631] Mon, 01 December 2014 14:27 Go to next message
Dan C is currently offline  Dan C
Messages: 12
Registered: December 2014
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Hi,

Sooo... I switched from Eudora to Apple Mail and am having a few
growing pains.
(QuickSilver 2002, Leopard)

I used EudoraMailboxCleaner, rebuilt the resulting mailboxes in Apple
Mail, and got most of my filters er a rules working.

My first impression of Apple Mail was that it's a POS because it was
abysmally slow. Turns out that to rebuild a mailbox, Mail opens each
and every message for *writing*, not just reading - so when they're
closed, fseventer throws them at ClamXav and Splotchlight for that
unnecessary 2nd and 3rd rescan. Splotchlight, of course, goes into
convulsions from being given so much work to do, mangles its indexing,
and throws thousands and thousands of errors at the console, which
then requires several cpu hours of the logger process futzing around.
sigh. So I beat it all with a stick, disabled Clam and Splotch, let
the rebuilds finish (21 years worth of mail!) then let Splotchlight
spend the night reindexing from scratch.

Overall Mail's performance is improved, as long as I stay away from
big mailboxes. Those still take 30s to a minute to view.

Ok - the questions:

Other than installing a newer WebKit system-wide (which has stability
issues), is there an "easy" way to point Mail to using a newer build?
The newer builds are much faster at displaying image heavy messages.

How do I tell Apple Mail to throw a message to my default browser?
Now and then, "friends" (peecee users) send me poorly formatted html
messages that get mangled by WebKit. I know by previous experience
that if I throw them at a non-webkit browser (eg: TenFourFox), they
display just fine. In Eudora, I did this by selecting the message
then hitting an "open in browser" button. What is the equivalent for
Apple Mail?

How do I quickly grab in-line photos? Some people send me messages
that contain dozens of photos. They're in-line - dragged into the
message body, not "regular" attachments. In Eudora, they appeared as
files in Eudora's "Parts" folder - easy to grab from Finder. Where
does Apple Mail stash them?

How do I create a rule to move sent messages to their appropriate
mailbox? I'm accumulating mailing list replies and such in the Sent
mailbox. I'd like them to automagically move to the right mailbox, to
keep the threads intact.

How do I create a rule to move attachments to an alternate folder?
I've no problem creating rules that move messages to specific
mailboxes. But on some, I'd like to also move the attachments to a
different folder, away from the default (which has become cluttered
fast!).

Thanks,
- Dan.

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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274632 is a reply to message #274631] Mon, 01 December 2014 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member

On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Dan C <dantearmok@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sooo... I switched from Eudora to Apple Mail and am having a few growing pains.
> (QuickSilver 2002, Leopard)
>
> I used EudoraMailboxCleaner, rebuilt the resulting mailboxes in Apple Mail, and got most of my filters er a rules working.
>
> My first impression of Apple Mail was that it's a POS because it was abysmally slow. Turns out that to rebuild a mailbox, Mail opens each and every message for *writing*, not just reading - so when they're closed, fseventer throws them at ClamXav and Splotchlight for that unnecessary 2nd and 3rd rescan. Splotchlight, of course, goes into convulsions from being given so much work to do, mangles its indexing, and throws thousands and thousands of errors at the console, which then requires several cpu hours of the logger process futzing around. sigh. So I beat it all with a stick, disabled Clam and Splotch, let the rebuilds finish (21 years worth of mail!) then let Splotchlight spend the night reindexing from scratch.

Well, to be honest, moving to a modern version of the OS will help a great deal...the computer is 12 years old, the os is what, 7?

With Snow Leopard (iirc) Apple moved from monolithic .mbox mail files to .eml files in directories, which speeds up message management by a gazillion times. Spotlight was vastly improved over the years. I have users with tens of thousands of emails in their mailboxes and normal performance.

Spotlight actually works now :-) It's quite useful, and I haven't seen a machine bog down with indexing in a dogs age. Apple's made a lot of improvements over the years.

>
> Ok - the questions:
>
> Other than installing a newer WebKit system-wide (which has stability issues), is there an "easy" way to point Mail to using a newer build? The newer builds are much faster at displaying image heavy messages.
>

No really, because Mail is calling the system Webkit libs; again 'getting a newer version of the OS' and, hence, moving to an Intel system is a surefire way to improve performance.



> How do I tell Apple Mail to throw a message to my default browser? Now and then, "friends" (peecee users) send me poorly formatted html messages that get mangled by WebKit. I know by previous experience that if I throw them at a non-webkit browser (eg: TenFourFox), they display just fine. In Eudora, I did this by selecting the message then hitting an "open in browser" button. What is the equivalent for Apple Mail?

There really isn't one; because Mail is using (theoretically) the same engine as the default web browser. Of course, since your system Webkit version is ancient, you'll run into issues.

>
> How do I quickly grab in-line photos? Some people send me messages that contain dozens of photos. They're in-line - dragged into the message body, not "regular" attachments. In Eudora, they appeared as files in Eudora's "Parts" folder - easy to grab from Finder. Where does Apple Mail stash them?
>

I know that in current versions of mail there's a kind of pop-up menu that will let me select any or all attachments to save. < https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pojrv6fatugfvu/mail%20attachments %20menu.png?dl=0> IIRC there were attachments buttons in the tool bars that did the same thing.

Explore the toolbar customization menu, there's a bunch of useful tools that aren't in the standard set.


> How do I create a rule to move sent messages to their appropriate mailbox? I'm accumulating mailing list replies and such in the Sent mailbox. I'd like them to automagically move to the right mailbox, to keep the threads intact.

I'm pretty sure if you add a rule to the Sent mailbox you should be able to do what you want.

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD

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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274645 is a reply to message #274632] Mon, 01 December 2014 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ROBERT H. BAUCOM is currently offline  ROBERT H. BAUCOM
Messages: 27
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
What everyone is telling you is true . I keep the same computer you have - Offline to Handle my Finances. That way there’s no danger of anyone hacking into my accounts or password lists … or stealing date.
Though I’m using a mid 2012 APPLE Pro Tower with Yosemite OS 10.10.1 … I can only recommend getting a unit that will at least run the Maverick OS.

IN FACT, I suggest you just stay with Maverick, the Calendar is simpler to make alerts and considering other features dropped in Yosemite. PLUS, Yosemite is BUTT UGLY. The Safari Icon is moronically, dimwitted, as is the contacts icon. BUT, I love Apple Mail.


On Dec 1, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:


On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Dan C <dantearmok@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sooo... I switched from Eudora to Apple Mail and am having a few growing pains.
> (QuickSilver 2002, Leopard)
>
> I used EudoraMailboxCleaner, rebuilt the resulting mailboxes in Apple Mail, and got most of my filters er a rules working.
>
> My first impression of Apple Mail was that it's a POS because it was abysmally slow. Turns out that to rebuild a mailbox, Mail opens each and every message for *writing*, not just reading - so when they're closed, fseventer throws them at ClamXav and Splotchlight for that unnecessary 2nd and 3rd rescan. Splotchlight, of course, goes into convulsions from being given so much work to do, mangles its indexing, and throws thousands and thousands of errors at the console, which then requires several cpu hours of the logger process futzing around. sigh. So I beat it all with a stick, disabled Clam and Splotch, let the rebuilds finish (21 years worth of mail!) then let Splotchlight spend the night reindexing from scratch.

Well, to be honest, moving to a modern version of the OS will help a great deal...the computer is 12 years old, the os is what, 7?

With Snow Leopard (iirc) Apple moved from monolithic .mbox mail files to .eml files in directories, which speeds up message management by a gazillion times. Spotlight was vastly improved over the years. I have users with tens of thousands of emails in their mailboxes and normal performance.

Spotlight actually works now :-) It's quite useful, and I haven't seen a machine bog down with indexing in a dogs age. Apple's made a lot of improvements over the years.

>
> Ok - the questions:
>
> Other than installing a newer WebKit system-wide (which has stability issues), is there an "easy" way to point Mail to using a newer build? The newer builds are much faster at displaying image heavy messages.
>

No really, because Mail is calling the system Webkit libs; again 'getting a newer version of the OS' and, hence, moving to an Intel system is a surefire way to improve performance.



> How do I tell Apple Mail to throw a message to my default browser? Now and then, "friends" (peecee users) send me poorly formatted html messages that get mangled by WebKit. I know by previous experience that if I throw them at a non-webkit browser (eg: TenFourFox), they display just fine. In Eudora, I did this by selecting the message then hitting an "open in browser" button. What is the equivalent for Apple Mail?

There really isn't one; because Mail is using (theoretically) the same engine as the default web browser. Of course, since your system Webkit version is ancient, you'll run into issues.

>
> How do I quickly grab in-line photos? Some people send me messages that contain dozens of photos. They're in-line - dragged into the message body, not "regular" attachments. In Eudora, they appeared as files in Eudora's "Parts" folder - easy to grab from Finder. Where does Apple Mail stash them?
>

I know that in current versions of mail there's a kind of pop-up menu that will let me select any or all attachments to save. < https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pojrv6fatugfvu/mail%20attachments %20menu.png?dl=0> IIRC there were attachments buttons in the tool bars that did the same thing.

Explore the toolbar customization menu, there's a bunch of useful tools that aren't in the standard set.


> How do I create a rule to move sent messages to their appropriate mailbox? I'm accumulating mailing list replies and such in the Sent mailbox. I'd like them to automagically move to the right mailbox, to keep the threads intact.

I'm pretty sure if you add a rule to the Sent mailbox you should be able to do what you want.

--
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD

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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274803 is a reply to message #274632] Wed, 03 December 2014 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan C is currently offline  Dan C
Messages: 12
Registered: December 2014
Karma: 0
Junior Member
On Dec 1, 2014, at 03:11 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Dan C <dantearmok@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sooo... I switched from Eudora to Apple Mail and am having a few
>> growing pains.
>> (QuickSilver 2002, Leopard)
>>
>> [snip - my griping about the conversion process in general]
>
> Well, to be honest, moving to a modern version of the OS will help a
> great deal...the computer is 12 years old, the os is what, 7?

pffft. They'll pry my ppc macs out of my cold dead hands.
(not to be confused with my saying the same thing about Eudora a few
years ago).

> With Snow Leopard (iirc) Apple moved from monolithic .mbox mail
> files to .eml files in directories, which speeds up message
> management by a gazillion times.

The transition from the standard unix mailbox to the proprietary index
with separate message files occurred in Leopard. That's why I now
gots an additional 100,000+ files on me drive.

I see now that Apple has changed their file format/set-up three times,
during the transitions to Leopard, Lion, and Mountain Lion. That's
got me thinking: The older versions of Mail do not run on newer
versions of the OS. So how are people and businesses (with a legal
requirement) handling this inability to read their backups and archives?

>> How do I tell Apple Mail to throw a message to my default browser?
>> Now and then, "friends" (peecee users) send me poorly formatted
>> html messages that get mangled by WebKit. I know by previous
>> experience that if I throw them at a non-webkit browser (eg:
>> TenFourFox), they display just fine. In Eudora, I did this by
>> selecting the message then hitting an "open in browser" button.
>> What is the equivalent for Apple Mail?
>
> There really isn't one; because Mail is using (theoretically) the
> same engine as the default web browser. Of course, since your system
> Webkit version is ancient, you'll run into issues.

My default web browser, as selected in Safari's preferences, is either
a newer WebKit app, or TenFourFox. So Mail is *not* using the same
engine.

I think I'll try Cam's suggestion of relinking Mail. That will fix
the slow rendering issues.

Still need a way to outright throw the email...

>> How do I quickly grab in-line photos? Some people send me messages
>> that contain dozens of photos. They're in-line - dragged into the
>> message body, not "regular" attachments. In Eudora, they appeared
>> as files in Eudora's "Parts" folder - easy to grab from Finder.
>> Where does Apple Mail stash them?
>
> I know that in current versions of mail there's a kind of pop-up
> menu that will let me select any or all attachments to save.

Yea, it's there if the files are attachments. If they're in-line,
then it's AWOL.

I've discovered that I can drag individual images to a fold in Finder,
if I'm patient (Finder has to "see" each drag before you let go of the
mouse). I guess that will work on messages that contain only a few
files.

Any idea where Mail is stashing these?

> Explore the toolbar customization menu, there's a bunch of useful
> tools that aren't in the standard set.

Nothing pertaining to saving images tho.

>> How do I create a rule to move sent messages to their appropriate
>> mailbox? I'm accumulating mailing list replies and such in the
>> Sent mailbox. I'd like them to automagically move to the right
>> mailbox, to keep the threads intact.
>
> I'm pretty sure if you add a rule to the Sent mailbox you should be
> able to do what you want.

How do I add a rule to the Sent mailbox? I'm not seeing that the
rules are being applied to anything when sending.

Thx,
- Dan.

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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274804 is a reply to message #274803] Wed, 03 December 2014 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member

On Dec 3, 2014, at 12:28 PM, Dan C <dantearmok@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> How do I tell Apple Mail to throw a message to my default browser? Now and then, "friends" (peecee users) send me poorly formatted html messages that get mangled by WebKit. I know by previous experience that if I throw them at a non-webkit browser (eg: TenFourFox), they display just fine. In Eudora, I did this by selecting the message then hitting an "open in browser" button. What is the equivalent for Apple Mail?
>>
>> There really isn't one; because Mail is using (theoretically) the same engine as the default web browser. Of course, since your system Webkit version is ancient, you'll run into issues.
>
> My default web browser, as selected in Safari's preferences, is either a newer WebKit app, or TenFourFox. So Mail is *not* using the same engine.

My bad, I meant the *default* default browser, which is Safari :-/

>
> I think I'll try Cam's suggestion of relinking Mail. That will fix the slow rendering issues.
>
> Still need a way to outright throw the email...
>
>>> How do I quickly grab in-line photos? Some people send me messages that contain dozens of photos. They're in-line - dragged into the message body, not "regular" attachments. In Eudora, they appeared as files in Eudora's "Parts" folder - easy to grab from Finder. Where does Apple Mail stash them?
>>
>> I know that in current versions of mail there's a kind of pop-up menu that will let me select any or all attachments to save.
>
> Yea, it's there if the files are attachments. If they're in-line, then it's AWOL.
>

That’s odd, because I picked one with a whole bunch of inline attachments. I don’t have a 10.5 system handy to check though. Wish I could get PearPC to compile because the tun/tap network adapter flat does not work in VirtualBox :-( OS X with no network is useless for my needs, and no one’s been able to get the jit stuff working <http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5757>

Of course, PearPC is more or less dead, no updates in years; everyone went to MacHacks instead :-/


> I've discovered that I can drag individual images to a fold in Finder, if I'm patient (Finder has to "see" each drag before you let go of the mouse). I guess that will work on messages that contain only a few files.
>
> Any idea where Mail is stashing these?

I suspect it’s not ‘stashing’ them anywhere, but decoding them out of the mail message source at runtime. IAC I cannot find any place attachments are saved separately in my mail stores, just .emlx files, which contain the raw email source with a .plist appended to the end for book-keeping purposes. Mail doesn’t work like Eudora splitting attachments away from messages like that.

>
>>> How do I create a rule to move sent messages to their appropriate mailbox? I'm accumulating mailing list replies and such in the Sent mailbox. I'd like them to automagically move to the right mailbox, to keep the threads intact.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure if you add a rule to the Sent mailbox you should be able to do what you want.
>
> How do I add a rule to the Sent mailbox? I'm not seeing that the rules are being applied to anything when sending.

I could have sworn I saw that the other day when I looked :-( Guess I’m wrong. I found a $30 application that says they can do this.

You might try using ‘smart' mailboxes.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274805 is a reply to message #274803] Wed, 03 December 2014 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ROBERT H. BAUCOM is currently offline  ROBERT H. BAUCOM
Messages: 27
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
I’ve had a problem with Apple Mail not being consistent as to Applying the RULES that you have formulated..
And that’s been from day one that they included it in Apple’s MAIL
BTW, I go back to 1986 and Mac OS (they didn’t call it OS back then) System ver. 6.8
RHB

That’s why I bought Spam Sieve for my OS10.10.1 w/Mail ver 5.5.1 Unit … and no longer use the Quicksilver w/Leopard for eMail an web access.
One thing I liked about Eudora was the ability to bounce back to the sender, unwanted eMails.
RHB
.
On Dec 3, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Dan C <dantearmok@gmail.com> wrote:

O
> On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Dan C <dantearmok@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sooo... I switched from Eudora to Apple Mail and am having a few growing pains.
>> (QuickSilver 2002, Leopard)
>> .

My default web browser, as selected in Safari's preferences, is either a newer WebKit app, or TenFourFox. So Mail is *not* using the same engine.

I think I'll try Cam's suggestion of relinking Mail. That will fix the slow rendering issues.

Still need a way to outright throw the email...

>> How do I create a rule to move sent messages to their appropriate mailbox? I'm accumulating mailing list replies and such in the Sent mailbox. I'd like them to automagically move to the right mailbox, to keep the threads intact.
>
> I'm pretty sure if you add a rule to the Sent mailbox you should be able to do what you want.

How do I add a rule to the Sent mailbox? I'm not seeing that the rules are being applied to anything when sending.

Thx,
- Dan.


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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274806 is a reply to message #274805] Wed, 03 December 2014 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Johnson is currently offline  Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member

On Dec 3, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Robert H. Baucom <rbtbcm@owc.net<mailto:rbtbcm@owc.net>> wrote:

I’ve had a problem with Apple Mail not being consistent as to Applying the RULES that you have formulated..
And that’s been from day one that they included it in Apple’s MAIL
BTW, I go back to 1986 and Mac OS (they didn’t call it OS back then) System ver. 6.8
RHB

That’s why I bought Spam Sieve for my OS10.10.1 w/Mail ver 5.5.1 Unit … and no longer use the Quicksilver w/Leopard for eMail an web access.
One thing I liked about Eudora was the ability to bounce back to the sender, unwanted eMails.

Mail used to have that option; but it no longer does, mainly because it just increases the total spam load on the system because the ‘from’ address is rarely the real place it came from.

To be honest, I’ve never really like client-side mail rules; I always had the luxury of being able to set up server-side ones. Note: if you use your iCloud email address you can set the rules on the iCloud server, which will filter email before it goes to your devices:

< http://www.macworld.com/article/2046147/five-icloud-email-tr icks-you-probably-missed.html>

One thing I now notice that Dan did not mention was what kind of email server he’s dealing with: POP or IMAP? I think Mail does things differently between those two. I’ve NEVER used POP mail for more than a few months. Just too many devices I need to get my email on...

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: Apple Mail questions [message #274816 is a reply to message #274806] Wed, 03 December 2014 20:03 Go to previous message
Dan C is currently offline  Dan C
Messages: 12
Registered: December 2014
Karma: 0
Junior Member
On Dec 3, 2014, at 05:46 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> To be honest, I’ve never really like client-side mail rules; I
> always had the luxury of being able to set up server-side ones. [...]
>
> One thing I now notice that Dan did not mention was what kind of
> email server he’s dealing with: POP or IMAP? I think Mail does
> things differently between those two. I’ve NEVER used POP mail for
> more than a few months. Just too many devices I need to get my email
> on...

Two GMail POP account. Might be willing to convert it to IMAP,
maybe. Two other POPs also.

My interest in the rules is not spam related. Apple Mail's built-in
spam filtering is doing just fine; missed none and only one false
positive so far.

My interest in the rules is for mailing list sorting.

- Dan.

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