| IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260727] |
Mon, 14 July 2014 16:49  |
Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
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Member |
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A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
Again
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-harlan-ellison-and-star-trek-again
or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
QUOTE
Adapted for the comics by IDWs primary Trek writers Scott and David
Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
everybody to go along with. In his words, over time nos turned into
hmmmms.
END QUOTE
Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Everyone is relevant to someone." -- Harold Finch, PERSON OF INTEREST
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260749 is a reply to message #260727] |
Mon, 14 July 2014 22:30  |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
<jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>
> The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
> Again
>
> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-harla
> n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>
> QUOTE
> Adapted for the comics by IDW‚s primary Trek writers Scott and David
> Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
> the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
> release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
> will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
> this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
> everybody to go along with. In his words, over time „nos‰ turned into
> „hmmmms.‰
> END QUOTE
>
> Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellison’s
original script for “The City on the Edge of Forever,” have been better
than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
nicely.
Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
was a very rare thing indeed.
BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
Edith's death was necessary.
Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260785 is a reply to message #260749] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 07:04 |
Daniel47@teranews.com
Messages: 188
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 15/07/2014 12:30 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
> <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>>
>> The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
>> Again
>>
>> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-harla
>> n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>>
>> QUOTE
>> Adapted for the comics by IDW‚s primary Trek writers Scott and David
>> Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
>> the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
>> release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
>> will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
>> this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
>> everybody to go along with. In his words, over time „nos‰ turned into
>> „hmmmms.‰
>> END QUOTE
>>
>> Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
>
>
> I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
> anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
>
> The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
> with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellison’s
> original script for “The City on the Edge of Forever,” have been better
> than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
> about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
> history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
> like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
> nicely.
>
> Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
> annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
> In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
> here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
> was a very rare thing indeed.
>
> BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
> changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
> that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
> rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
> rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
> because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
> significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
> phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
> Edith's death was necessary.
>
> Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
>
Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible ST
13 re-do storyline??
Daniel
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260799 is a reply to message #260785] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 10:22 |
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Originally posted by: angie
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:04:08 +1000, Daniel wrote in <WU7xv.19243$LH2.40
@fx17.iad>:
> Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible
> ST 13 re-do storyline??
Very doubtful. They've stated fairly clearly their intent to go on the
five year mission and focus away from Earth for the next movie (next
several?) ... doing this story would mean focusing on Earth again.
(followups trimmed -- what does Star Trek, on the small /or/ big screen,
have to do with comic books?!)
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260813 is a reply to message #260785] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 11:23 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <WU7xv.19243$LH2.40@fx17.iad>, Daniel
<dxmm@albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:
> On 15/07/2014 12:30 PM, A Friend wrote:
>> In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
>> <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>>>
>>> The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
>>> Again
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-ha
>>> rla
>>> n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
>>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>>>
>>> QUOTE
>>> Adapted for the comics by IDW‚s primary Trek writers Scott and David
>>> Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
>>> the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
>>> release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
>>> will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
>>> this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
>>> everybody to go along with. In his words, over time „nos‰ turned into
>>> „hmmmms.‰
>>> END QUOTE
>>>
>>> Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
>>
>>
>> I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
>> anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
>>
>> The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
>> with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellison’s
>> original script for “The City on the Edge of Forever,” have been better
>> than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
>> about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
>> history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
>> like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
>> nicely.
>>
>> Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
>> annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
>> In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
>> here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
>> was a very rare thing indeed.
>>
>> BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
>> changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
>> that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
>> rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
>> rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
>> because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
>> significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
>> phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>> Edith's death was necessary.
>>
>> Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
>>
> Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible ST
> 13 re-do storyline??
Not a chance. Nobody's going to touch it. They don't need the almost
certain litigation. Even the Pocket Books novels and various comics
don't use or refer to City. (One exception, I think: Peter David used
City in something after asking Ellison for permission, which he gave.)
In any case, there's nothing to add to City, and there's no reason to
re-do it. I think they found out with the 2013 movie that remakes of
old Trek shows just won't cut it.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260814 is a reply to message #260813] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 11:28 |
David Johnston
Messages: 220
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 7/15/2014 9:23 AM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <WU7xv.19243$LH2.40@fx17.iad>, Daniel
> <dxmm@albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:
>
>> On 15/07/2014 12:30 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>> In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
>>> <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>>>>
>>>> The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
>>>> Again
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-ha
>>>> rla
>>>> n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
>>>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>>>>
>>>> QUOTE
>>>> Adapted for the comics by IDW‚s primary Trek writers Scott and David
>>>> Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
>>>> the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
>>>> release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
>>>> will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
>>>> this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
>>>> everybody to go along with. In his words, over time „nos‰ turned into
>>>> „hmmmms.‰
>>>> END QUOTE
>>>>
>>>> Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
>>>
>>>
>>> I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
>>> anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
>>>
>>> The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
>>> with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellison’s
>>> original script for “The City on the Edge of Forever,” have been better
>>> than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
>>> about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
>>> history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
>>> like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
>>> nicely.
>>>
>>> Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
>>> annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
>>> In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
>>> here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
>>> was a very rare thing indeed.
>>>
>>> BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
>>> changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
>>> that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
>>> rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
>>> rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
>>> because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
>>> significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
>>> phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>> Edith's death was necessary.
>>>
>>> Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
>>>
>> Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible ST
>> 13 re-do storyline??
>
>
> Not a chance. Nobody's going to touch it. They don't need the almost
> certain litigation. Even the Pocket Books novels and various comics
> don't use or refer to City.
You DO know that this whole thread is about a comic book adaptation of
the original script, right?
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260815 is a reply to message #260813] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 11:46 |
Adam H. Kerman
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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A Friend wrote:
> Not a chance. Nobody's going to touch it. They don't need the almost
> certain litigation. Even the Pocket Books novels and various comics
> don't use or refer to ["City on the Edge of Forever"]. (One exception,
> I think: Peter David used City in something after asking Ellison for
> permission, which he gave.)
I remember a somewhat uninvolving novel with Data trying to prevent
Ryker from using Harlan Ellison's time travel device from going back
in time to rescue Diana; definitely wasn't written by Peter David.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260833 is a reply to message #260785] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 14:01 |
Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Daniel sent the following on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:04:08 +1000:
> On 15/07/2014 12:30 PM, A Friend wrote:
>> In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
>> <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>>>
>>> The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
>>> Again
>>>
>>> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-harla
>>> n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
>>> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>>>
>>> QUOTE
>>> Adapted for the comics by IDWs primary Trek writers Scott and David
>>> Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
>>> the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
>>> release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
>>> will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
>>> this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
>>> everybody to go along with. In his words, over time nos turned into
>>> hmmmms.
>>> END QUOTE
>>>
>>> Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
>>
>>
>> I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
>> anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
>>
>> The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
>> with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellisons
>> original script for The City on the Edge of Forever, have been better
>> than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
>> about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
>> history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
>> like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
>> nicely.
>>
>> Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
>> annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
>> In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
>> here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
>> was a very rare thing indeed.
>>
>> BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
>> changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
>> that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
>> rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
>> rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
>> because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
>> significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
>> phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>> Edith's death was necessary.
>>
>> Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
>>
> Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible ST
> 13 re-do storyline??
It's almost always mentioned as something worth a revisit, but I think
that everyone is just waiting for Harlan to die so that the chance of a
lawsuit is diminished. I was very surprised not only to see him agree to
this comic book treatment, but for IDW to risk the wrath of Ellison's
lawyers if the little twit ended up unhappy with things. But then again,
I suspect that IDW's own lawyers aren't too shabby, either.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Everyone is relevant to someone." -- Harold Finch, PERSON OF INTEREST
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260864 is a reply to message #260815] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 16:06 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <lq3icg$2cj$2@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> A Friend wrote:
>
>> Not a chance. Nobody's going to touch it. They don't need the almost
>> certain litigation. Even the Pocket Books novels and various comics
>> don't use or refer to ["City on the Edge of Forever"]. (One exception,
>> I think: Peter David used City in something after asking Ellison for
>> permission, which he gave.)
>
> I remember a somewhat uninvolving novel with Data trying to prevent
> Ryker from using Harlan Ellison's time travel device from going back
> in time to rescue Diana; definitely wasn't written by Peter David.
Definitely was. It was his novel Imzadi. Admiral Riker goes back in
time to save Deanna. This is from Peter David's blog on 7 Sep 2006:
Readers of Harlan Ellison’s webpage–and even some non-readers–are aware
that Harlan is launching a legal action against Pocket Books over
current and upcoming novels about Edith Keeler.
Quite a few folks have been asking me if this will have any impact on
“Imzadi” which, as anyone who has read it knows, is basically an
inversion of “City” and features the Guardian of Forever. Although I
already suspected the answer, I called Harlan and he personally assured
me that “Imzadi” will not be a part of the litigation, for two reasons:
First, he’d never cause a close friend that kind of grief, and second,
way back in the day when I first came up with the plot, I called him
and asked permission. He gave me the okay, I wrote the book, and
dedicated it to him.
http://www.peterdavid.net/2006/09/07/in-answer-to-questions- regarding-th
e-city-on-the-edge-of-forever-lawsuit/
http://goo.gl/MZj2bj
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260865 is a reply to message #260814] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 16:18 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <lq3hbc$ulq$3@dont-email.me>, David Johnston
<David@block.net> wrote:
> On 7/15/2014 9:23 AM, A Friend wrote:
>> In article <WU7xv.19243$LH2.40@fx17.iad>, Daniel
>> <dxmm@albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/07/2014 12:30 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>>> In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
>>>> <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>>>> >
>>>> > The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
>>>> > Again
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-
>>>> > ha
>>>> > rla
>>>> > n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
>>>> > or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>>>> >
>>>> > QUOTE
>>>> > Adapted for the comics by IDW‚s primary Trek writers Scott and David
>>>> > Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
>>>> > the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
>>>> > release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
>>>> > will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
>>>> > this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
>>>> > everybody to go along with. In his words, over time „nos‰ turned into
>>>> > „hmmmms.‰
>>>> > END QUOTE
>>>> >
>>>> > Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
>>>> anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
>>>>
>>>> The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
>>>> with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellison’s
>>>> original script for “The City on the Edge of Forever,” have been better
>>>> than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
>>>> about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
>>>> history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
>>>> like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
>>>> nicely.
>>>>
>>>> Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
>>>> annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
>>>> In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
>>>> here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
>>>> was a very rare thing indeed.
>>>>
>>>> BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
>>>> changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
>>>> that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
>>>> rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
>>>> rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
>>>> because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
>>>> significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
>>>> phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>>> Edith's death was necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
>>>>
>>> Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible ST
>>> 13 re-do storyline??
>>
>>
>> Not a chance. Nobody's going to touch it. They don't need the almost
>> certain litigation. Even the Pocket Books novels and various comics
>> don't use or refer to City.
>
> You DO know that this whole thread is about a comic book adaptation of
> the original script, right?
Well, that's fairly condescending.
This is a conversation. Right now I'm talking about the history of
City and Ellison's litigation concerning same, with specific reference
to a possible future film. The IDW comic is not a future film.
(You'll note that someone has jokingly -- I hope -- wondered how long
it will be before Ellison sues IDW.) No one is going to remake City
for the reasons I gave. If you think otherwise, you're deluded.
BTW, to clarify, there are references to the Guardian of Forever in
about a dozen other Trekkish works (this is part of Ellison's 2009
lawsuit), but none that I can find to Edith Keeler or even to Kirk and
Spock's time-trip to 1930, which is what I had in mind.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #260908 is a reply to message #260864] |
Tue, 15 July 2014 19:55 |
Adam H. Kerman
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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A Friend wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> A Friend wrote:
>>> Not a chance. Nobody's going to touch it. They don't need the almost
>>> certain litigation. Even the Pocket Books novels and various comics
>>> don't use or refer to ["City on the Edge of Forever"]. (One exception,
>>> I think: Peter David used City in something after asking Ellison for
>>> permission, which he gave.)
>> I remember a somewhat uninvolving novel with Data trying to prevent
>> Ryker from using Harlan Ellison's time travel device from going back
>> in time to rescue Diana; definitely wasn't written by Peter David.
> Definitely was. . . .
Bad recollection on my part. It bored me, so I thought it was someone else.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261101 is a reply to message #260834] |
Wed, 16 July 2014 15:39 |
Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
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Member |
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anim8rFSK sent the following on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 12:04:55 -0700:
> In article <hvqas954jq3q4hh4ls4s0je41p56tekp2r@4ax.com>,
> Jim G. <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Daniel sent the following on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:04:08 +1000:
>>> On 15/07/2014 12:30 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>>> In article <acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com>, Jim G.
>>>> <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>>>> >
>>>> > The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
>>>> > Again
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-
>>>> > harla
>>>> > n-ellison-and-star-trek-again
>>>> > or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>>>> >
>>>> > QUOTE
>>>> > Adapted for the comics by IDWs primary Trek writers Scott and David
>>>> > Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
>>>> > the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
>>>> > release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
>>>> > will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
>>>> > this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
>>>> > everybody to go along with. In his words, over time nos turned into
>>>> > hmmmms.
>>>> > END QUOTE
>>>> >
>>>> > Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I read the original script about 35 years ago, and I don't remember
>>>> anything about a Bizarro World Enterprise.
>>>>
>>>> The article asks the question, "And yet, now nearly 50 years later,
>>>> with numerous Treks behind us, the question still nags: would Ellisons
>>>> original script for The City on the Edge of Forever, have been better
>>>> than what ended up on screen?" I don't think so. The story is not
>>>> about Beckwith, it's about Kirk and Edith Keeler, and Kirk's duty to
>>>> history and the future. The story didn't require Beckwith or anybody
>>>> like Beckwith. Accidentally overdosing McCoy gets things rolling quite
>>>> nicely.
>>>>
>>>> Ellison's ending -- with Beckwith stuck in a time loop getting
>>>> annihilated every few seconds inside a nova -- is beyond melodramatic.
>>>> In the show as seen, Kirk's final line, "Let's get the hell out of
>>>> here," is powerful, especially in a day when saying "hell" on U.S. tv
>>>> was a very rare thing indeed.
>>>>
>>>> BTW the really confusing thing about City is just how history was
>>>> changed. Everybody thinks McCoy saved Edith from getting run over by
>>>> that truck, and that wasn't the case. The creepy little guy at the
>>>> rescue mission (his name in Ellison's script is Rodent) eventually
>>>> rapes and murders Edith. He doesn't do so in the changed history
>>>> because he fiddled with McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. The
>>>> significance of this was purposefully obscured, but that's why the
>>>> phaser scene is in there. What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>>> Edith's death was necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Also, Clark Gable didn't make a movie until 1931.
>>>>
>>> Hasn't the Edith Keeler story line been mentioned here as a possible ST
>>> 13 re-do storyline??
>>
>> It's almost always mentioned as something worth a revisit, but I think
>> that everyone is just waiting for Harlan to die so that the chance of a
>> lawsuit is diminished. I was very surprised not only to see him agree to
>> this comic book treatment, but for IDW to risk the wrath of Ellison's
>> lawyers if the little twit ended up unhappy with things. But then again,
>> I suspect that IDW's own lawyers aren't too shabby, either.
>
> Okay, seriously, when have you ever seen HE sue because he didn't like
> the outcome, as opposed to, they just stole the idea?
I'm thinking "unhappy with things" as in "unhappy that he doesn't get
everything his way," rather than "unhappy with the outcome."
As for stealing his ideas, there are lots of issues with that one. I
thought that his claim regarding the original Terminator movie was
stretching reality to the breaking point, for example. YMMV.
> If he doesn't
> like the changes, he just gives them the Cordwainer Bird. The people he
> sues are, for instance, Jim Cameron, who not only stole two of his
> stories (and a couple from others as well) but went around BRAGGING
> about it.* He sued and won against Paramount for FUTURE COP, Paramount
> turning over an inter office menu saying "let's screw over this little
> Jew and steal his idea" and used the settlement to buy a billboard
> across the street encouraging writers not to roll over and take it in
> the backside. He's had a bunch of suits against people that illegally
> posted his work online. He withdrew his suit against IN TIME when they
> changed it enough. He sued Paramount for not paying him royalties on
> CITY for 40 years. He sued the lazy and worthless Writer's Guild for
> making him sue other people in the first place (heh).
>
> When he doesn't like the outcome? He gave the Cordwainer Bird to:
> 2 episodes of THE HUNGER (the series)
> 2 movie compilations of THE STARLOST (rather famously)
> All 16 episodes of THE STARLOST
> 1 episode of THE FLYING NUN
> And as near as I can tell, that's it, with no overlap of suing and
> giving them the Bird.
Those are all fair points, but since when do we allow fair points to
keep us from picking on Hollywood types here?
> *The sole exception I know of HE suing over something other than having
> his work stolen being Fantagraphics, who posted lies about him on their
> website, and he won, 'cause they were lies, and didn't take any money -
> all he wanted was their lies taken off their website.
I'm not saying that he was wrong to sue in 100% of the cases where he
sued. I'm just saying that he has a rep for it, and it's not always a
case of him being 100% in the right in those cases. I respect his talent
as a writer; I just have lots of issues with his ability to play well
with others and to not be a little jerk at times when he doesn't get
everything his way. "High-maintenance" is a term that perfectly
describes the guy, IMO.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Everyone is relevant to someone." -- Harold Finch, PERSON OF INTEREST
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261104 is a reply to message #261102] |
Wed, 16 July 2014 16:27 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <anim8rfsk-E5A482.13042116072014@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> First time I saw TERMINATOR I said outloud that it was ripped off from
> SOLDIER and THE MAN WHO WAS NEVER BORN. I think DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND
> is more of a stretch.
Many years ago, I read a collection that contained a '40s short story
about an implacable robot that was pursuing a murderer through the
streets of future Somewhere in order to execute him for his crimes.
The robot didn't need rest and would never stop. I've long been trying
to find the story again, but without success. I think it might have
been written by Henry Slesar, but at this very late date I'm not at all
sure.
Also, did anybody ever produce the memo that Ellison claims said
something to the effect of "Let's screw this little Jew and steal his
idea"?
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261105 is a reply to message #261104] |
Wed, 16 July 2014 17:06 |
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Messages: 7
Registered: February 2011
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On 2014-07-16 16:27:50 -0400, A Friend said:
> In article <anim8rfsk-E5A482.13042116072014@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> First time I saw TERMINATOR I said outloud that it was ripped off from
>> SOLDIER and THE MAN WHO WAS NEVER BORN. I think DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND
>> is more of a stretch.
>
> Many years ago, I read a collection that contained a '40s short story
> about an implacable robot that was pursuing a murderer through the
> streets of future Somewhere in order to execute him for his crimes.
> The robot didn't need rest and would never stop. I've long been trying
> to find the story again, but without success. I think it might have
> been written by Henry Slesar, but at this very late date I'm not at all
> sure.
Probably "Two-Handed Engine," by Henry Kuttner.
--
I'm serializing a new Ethshar novel!
The twenty-second chapter is online at:
http://www.ethshar.com/ishtascompanion22.html
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261316 is a reply to message #261104] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 18:36 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <160720141627506951%nope@noway.com>, A Friend
<nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <anim8rfsk-E5A482.13042116072014@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> First time I saw TERMINATOR I said outloud that it was ripped off from
>> SOLDIER and THE MAN WHO WAS NEVER BORN. I think DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND
>> is more of a stretch.
>
>
> Many years ago, I read a collection that contained a '40s short story
> about an implacable robot that was pursuing a murderer through the
> streets of future Somewhere in order to execute him for his crimes.
> The robot didn't need rest and would never stop. I've long been trying
> to find the story again, but without success. I think it might have
> been written by Henry Slesar, but at this very late date I'm not at all
> sure.
>
> Also, did anybody ever produce the memo that Ellison claims said
> something to the effect of "Let's screw this little Jew and steal his
> idea"?
Oh, yeah, one more thing. With regard to Demon with a Glass Hand, you
could -- theoretically -- reduce the entire present-day human race to
the size of a sugar cube, because atoms are mostly empty space. The
cube, however, would weigh five billion tons.
The population of far-future Earth in Demon with a Glass Hand is 70
billion, so multiply the above weights and measures by ten. Trent
might have a little trouble moving around, or not sinking to the
Earth's core.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261334 is a reply to message #261316] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 20:37 |
goldfarb
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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In article <170720141836136511%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
> With regard to Demon with a Glass Hand, you
> could -- theoretically -- reduce the entire present-day human race to
> the size of a sugar cube, because atoms are mostly empty space. The
> cube, however, would weigh five billion tons.
Assuming the average person weighs 150 pounds, I make that more like
500 million. Have you slipped a decimal place?
The future-human-race cube would be ten times the volume, but of course
each edge would only be a bit more than twice as long.
--
David Goldfarb |"I require three things in a man. He must be
goldfarbdj@gmail.com | handsome, ruthless, and stupid."
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Dorothy Parker
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261335 is a reply to message #261334] |
Thu, 17 July 2014 21:57 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <n8vtpy.1D5@kithrup.com>, David Goldfarb
<goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> In article <170720141836136511%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>> With regard to Demon with a Glass Hand, you
>> could -- theoretically -- reduce the entire present-day human race to
>> the size of a sugar cube, because atoms are mostly empty space. The
>> cube, however, would weigh five billion tons.
>
> Assuming the average person weighs 150 pounds, I make that more like
> 500 million. Have you slipped a decimal place?
Oops. Thanks. That's still pretty freaking heavy, though.
We're back up to 5 billion tons for the 70 billion humans.
> The future-human-race cube would be ten times the volume, but of course
> each edge would only be a bit more than twice as long.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261353 is a reply to message #261335] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 01:14 |
goldfarb
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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In article <170720142157162917%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
> In article <n8vtpy.1D5@kithrup.com>, David Goldfarb
> <goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>> In article <170720141836136511%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>>> With regard to Demon with a Glass Hand, you
>>> could -- theoretically -- reduce the entire present-day human race to
>>> the size of a sugar cube, because atoms are mostly empty space. The
>>> cube, however, would weigh five billion tons.
>>
>> Assuming the average person weighs 150 pounds, I make that more like
>> 500 million. Have you slipped a decimal place?
>
>
> Oops. Thanks. That's still pretty freaking heavy, though.
>
> We're back up to 5 billion tons for the 70 billion humans.
True enough. Still, if we're going to imagine super-duper future
magictech that compactifies all humanity -- reversibly! -- into such
a small space, it's not that much more of a stretch to imagine even
more super-duper magictech that copes with the immense mass.
(I just checked, it's nowhere near the Swarzschild radius.)
Several possibilities:
The cube really does weigh that much, but antigravity and neutralization
of inertia make it act like something that weighs and masses much less.
The cube doesn't really have the compressed bodies. They're stored in
a pocket dimension somewhere, and the cube is just the machinery for
getting them out.
The cube again isn't the bodies, it's just a storage container for
information on how to recreate them from surrounding materials.
Someone smarter than me could probably come up with a bunch more ways
that this could be made to work.
--
David Goldfarb |"As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I
goldfarbdj@gmail.com | craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | meaningful vision of human life -- so I became
| a scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop
| so you can meet girls." -- M. Cartmill
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261362 is a reply to message #261353] |
Fri, 18 July 2014 06:18 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <n8w6JE.stn@kithrup.com>, David Goldfarb
<goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> In article <170720142157162917%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>> In article <n8vtpy.1D5@kithrup.com>, David Goldfarb
>> <goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <170720141836136511%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>>>> With regard to Demon with a Glass Hand, you
>>>> could -- theoretically -- reduce the entire present-day human race to
>>>> the size of a sugar cube, because atoms are mostly empty space. The
>>>> cube, however, would weigh five billion tons.
>>>
>>> Assuming the average person weighs 150 pounds, I make that more like
>>> 500 million. Have you slipped a decimal place?
>>
>>
>> Oops. Thanks. That's still pretty freaking heavy, though.
>>
>> We're back up to 5 billion tons for the 70 billion humans.
>
> True enough. Still, if we're going to imagine super-duper future
> magictech that compactifies all humanity -- reversibly! -- into such
> a small space, it's not that much more of a stretch to imagine even
> more super-duper magictech that copes with the immense mass.
>
> (I just checked, it's nowhere near the Swarzschild radius.)
>
> Several possibilities:
>
> The cube really does weigh that much, but antigravity and neutralization
> of inertia make it act like something that weighs and masses much less.
>
> The cube doesn't really have the compressed bodies. They're stored in
> a pocket dimension somewhere, and the cube is just the machinery for
> getting them out.
>
> The cube again isn't the bodies, it's just a storage container for
> information on how to recreate them from surrounding materials.
>
> Someone smarter than me could probably come up with a bunch more ways
> that this could be made to work.
Neat. Thanks for all of that.
The story itself says that all 70 billion humans were reduced to
"electrical impulses" and stored on a "thin strand of gold-copper alloy
wire" wrapped around "an insulating coil inside [Trent's] central
thorax control solenoid." Electrons have mass, but it's beyond me how
much 70 billion peoples' worth of them might weigh. Of course, this
mass thing is not what the story is about (although it's exactly the
kind of thing Ellison would pick on mercilessly if someone else had
written the story), and I'm not pretending it's important.
The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg. Multiply that
by however many electrons it takes to form a unique "electrical
impulse" for each human, and that'll be the answer. We're beyond facts
at this point, but it seems to me that you ought to be able to do the
whole deal for less than a single gram.
I'd agree that the "science" works better if Trent serves merely as a
key to retrieving the human race from some U-Stor-It dimension, but the
wire thing is much more dramatic and makes for a better story.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261819 is a reply to message #261362] |
Sun, 20 July 2014 14:00 |
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Originally posted by: angie
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
<180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
> The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
which is obviously wrong.
A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
(comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261871 is a reply to message #261858] |
Sun, 20 July 2014 18:02 |
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Originally posted by: angie
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:00:08 -0400, A Friend wrote in
<200720141600080690%nope@noway.com>:
>
> In article <MPG.2e35cdca6de8203f989703@news.eternal-september.org>,
> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>> <180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
>>
>>> The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>
>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
>> which is obviously wrong.
>>
>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
>> correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
>> forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>
>
> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth two
> paragraphs.
>
>
>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
>> based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>
>
> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science Fiction
> Graphics Novels series.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-graphic/dp /0930289099
>
> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
> appropriately.
I wasn't trolling.
Followups set to remove Star Trek group, as that's now clearly the least
relevant group.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261889 is a reply to message #261871] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 01:04 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <MPG.2e360678231ce70898970a@news.eternal-september.org>,
angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:00:08 -0400, A Friend wrote in
> <200720141600080690%nope@noway.com>:
>>
>> In article <MPG.2e35cdca6de8203f989703@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>>> <180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
>>>
>>>> The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>>
>>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
>>> which is obviously wrong.
>>>
>>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
>>> correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
>>> forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>>
>>
>> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth two
>> paragraphs.
>>
>>
>>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
>>> based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>>
>>
>> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science Fiction
>> Graphics Novels series.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-graphic/dp /0930289099
>>
>> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
>> appropriately.
>
> I wasn't trolling.
Yes, you were. For example, you asked "was there ever a comic about
Demon?" without checking before you deleted the followup. Your failure
to acknowledge your error is noted. You're a classic troll, and not a
very good one.
> Followups set to remove Star Trek group, as that's now clearly the least
> relevant group.
By all means, keep diddling yourself. And we're done here. Followups
reset.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261902 is a reply to message #261889] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 02:41 |
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Originally posted by: angie
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:04:25 -0400, A Friend wrote in
<210720140104259191%nope@noway.com>:
>
> In article <MPG.2e360678231ce70898970a@news.eternal-september.org>,
> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:00:08 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>> <200720141600080690%nope@noway.com>:
>>>
>>> In article <MPG.2e35cdca6de8203f989703@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>>>> <180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
>>>>
>>>> > The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>>>
>>>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
>>>> which is obviously wrong.
>>>>
>>>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
>>>> correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
>>>> forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth two
>>> paragraphs.
>>>
>>>
>>>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
>>>> based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science Fiction
>>> Graphics Novels series.
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-graphic/dp /0930289099
>>>
>>> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
>>> appropriately.
>>
>> I wasn't trolling.
>
> Yes, you were. For example, you asked "was there ever a comic about
> Demon?" without checking before you deleted the followup.
You expected me to check? You did nothing to convey such an expectation.
And ... how? Even if there was a comic store close to me (there isn't),
I couldn't conclude from something's absence there that nothing of the
sort existed. And I certainly wouldn't drop everything in the middle of
catching up newsgroups and go there, at a cost of half an hour of time
and several dollars worth of gasoline, just to avoid you accusing me of
trolling, regardless.
Followups set to remove the Star Trek group (again) as this has nothing
to do with Star Trek.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261917 is a reply to message #261858] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 08:43 |
Wiseguy
Messages: 242
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote in news:200720141600080690%
nope@noway.com:
> In article <MPG.2e35cdca6de8203f989703@news.eternal-september.org>,
> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>> <180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
>>
>>> The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>
>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
>> which is obviously wrong.
>>
>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
>> correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
>> forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>
>
> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth two
> paragraphs.
>
>
Yes, learn to proofread.
>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
>> based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>
>
> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science
Fiction
> Graphics Novels series.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-
graphic/dp/0930289099
>
> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
> appropriately.
>
Asking a question is not trolling.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261931 is a reply to message #261917] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 08:59 |
Adam H. Kerman
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Wiseguy <epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote:
>>>> The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
>>> which is obviously wrong.
>>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
>>> correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
>>> forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth two
>> paragraphs.
> Yes, learn to proofread.
>>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
>>> based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science Fiction
>> Graphics Novels series.
>> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-graphic/dp /0930289099
>> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
>> appropriately.
> Asking a question is not trolling.
How about screwing around with followups as you did? How about pretending
that a troll pretending to be a female sockpuppet isn't a troll as you did?
How about making your own calculation to show us how smart you are instead
of taking potshots at someone else as you did?
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261953 is a reply to message #261931] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 11:38 |
Wiseguy
Messages: 242
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in
news:lqj2s0$9b1$2@news.albasani.net:
> Wiseguy <epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote:
>
>>>> >The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>
>>>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of
>>>> tons, which is obviously wrong.
>
>>>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives
>>>> the correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error
>>>> was to forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>
>>> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth
>>> two paragraphs.
>
>> Yes, learn to proofread.
>
>>>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a
>>>> comic based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>
>>> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science
>>> Fiction Graphics Novels series.
>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-
graphic/dp/093028909
>>> 9
>
>>> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
>>> appropriately.
>
>> Asking a question is not trolling.
>
> How about screwing around with followups as you did? How about
> pretending that a troll pretending to be a female sockpuppet isn't a
> troll as you did?
>
> How about making your own calculation to show us how smart you are
> instead of taking potshots at someone else as you did?
>
I did none of those things. I was just stating a fact and commenting on
the childish rants of "A Friend," who apparently has none of his own.
If you're too stupid to understand that that's your problem.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #261997 is a reply to message #261917] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 16:24 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <XnsA3714E9CF9DABepwiseyahoocom@69.16.179.22>, Wiseguy
<epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote in news:200720141600080690%
> nope@noway.com:
>
>> In article <MPG.2e35cdca6de8203f989703@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>>> <180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
>>>
>>>> The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>>
>>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of tons,
>>> which is obviously wrong.
>>>
>>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives the
>>> correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error was to
>>> forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>>
>>
>> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth two
>> paragraphs.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, learn to proofread.
How profound.
>>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a comic
>>> based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>>
>>
>> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science
> Fiction
>> Graphics Novels series.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-
> graphic/dp/0930289099
>>
>> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
>> appropriately.
>>
>
> Asking a question is not trolling.
Deleting followups for no reason is, though. So is deleting followups
without notice, as you tried to do here. Inserting your sorry self
into a spent discussion just because you're a blockhead with an asshole
where his judgment should be may or may not be trolling. It may simply
be a cry for help.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #262017 is a reply to message #261953] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 18:07 |
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Originally posted by: angie
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:38:43 GMT, Wiseguy wrote in
<XnsA3716C4A43710epwiseyahoocom@69.16.179.22>:
>
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in
> news:lqj2s0$9b1$2@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Wiseguy <epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Asking a question is not trolling.
>>
>> How about screwing around with followups as you did? How about
>> pretending that a troll pretending to be a female sockpuppet isn't a
>> troll as you did?
>>
>> How about making your own calculation to show us how smart you are
>> instead of taking potshots at someone else as you did?
>
> I did none of those things. I was just stating a fact and commenting on
> the childish rants of "A Friend," who apparently has none of his own.
> If you're too stupid to understand that that's your problem.
Just killfile Kerman. He's either a troll or a raving paranoiac, and
whichever of those he is, he's also an asshole. You won't find anything
much of value in what he writes, and if you're going to read any of the
major tv newsgroups your blood pressure will be a lot lower and your
experience a lot more enjoyable if you killfile the twit. I know mine
is. ^_^
(followups set to remove Trek group)
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #262018 is a reply to message #262017] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 18:13 |
Adam H. Kerman
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:38:43 GMT, Wiseguy wrote in
> <XnsA3716C4A43710epwiseyahoocom@69.16.179.22>:
>>
>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in
>> news:lqj2s0$9b1$2@news.albasani.net:
>>
>>> Wiseguy <epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Asking a question is not trolling.
>>>
>>> How about screwing around with followups as you did? How about
>>> pretending that a troll pretending to be a female sockpuppet isn't a
>>> troll as you did?
>>>
>>> How about making your own calculation to show us how smart you are
>>> instead of taking potshots at someone else as you did?
>>
>> I did none of those things. I was just stating a fact and commenting on
>> the childish rants of "A Friend," who apparently has none of his own.
>> If you're too stupid to understand that that's your problem.
> Just killfile Kerman. . . .
Somehow, you've never managed to do that yourself, seamus. Just ask
me for the help you need. I'm here for you.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #262019 is a reply to message #262018] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 18:16 |
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Originally posted by: castal00n
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:13:58 +0000, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Somehow, you've never managed to do that yourself, seamus. Just ask me
> for the help you need. I'm here for you.
Who is "seamus", Verman? There is nobody in this newsgroup using that
alias.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #262030 is a reply to message #261997] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 21:01 |
Wiseguy
Messages: 242
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote in
news:210720141624300824%nope@noway.com:
> In article <XnsA3714E9CF9DABepwiseyahoocom@69.16.179.22>, Wiseguy
> <epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote in news:200720141600080690%
>> nope@noway.com:
>>
>>> In article <MPG.2e35cdca6de8203f989703@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> angie <angie.3@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 06:18:41 -0400, A Friend wrote in
>>>> <180720140618410107%nope@noway.com>:
>>>>
>>>> > The mass of 70 billion electrons equals 6.38 x 10^20 kg.
>>>>
>>>> No way. That would mean one single electron weighed millions of
>>>> tons, which is obviously wrong.
>>>>
>>>> A quick wikipedia lookup and use of a scientific calculator gives
>>>> the correct answer: 6.376568037 x 10^-20 kg. Looks like your error
>>>> was to forget a minus sign in the exponent. ^_^
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I accidentally dropped the minus sign. Surely that was worth
>>> two paragraphs.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, learn to proofread.
>
>
> How profound.
>
>
>>>> (comics group dropped from followup-to -- has there ever been a
>>>> comic based on Demon with a Glass Hand?)
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, there has. Published by DC in 1986 as part of its Science
>> Fiction
>>> Graphics Novels series.
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Demon-glass-Science-fiction-
>> graphic/dp/0930289099
>>>
>>> Followups restored. Next time you troll, please try to do so
>>> appropriately.
>>>
>>
>> Asking a question is not trolling.
>
>
> Deleting followups for no reason is, though. So is deleting followups
> without notice, as you tried to do here. Inserting your sorry self
> into a spent discussion just because you're a blockhead with an
> asshole where his judgment should be may or may not be trolling. It
> may simply be a cry for help.
>
Again, I did no such thing. You are delusional. The last time I
checked, you are not the owner of the Internet. I can say anything I
want to whomever I want and if you don't like it, YOU can go away and
make us all happy.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #262044 is a reply to message #262030] |
Mon, 21 July 2014 23:26 |
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Originally posted by: A Friend
In article <XnsA371CB9C7AEF1epwiseyahoocom@69.16.179.22>, Wiseguy
<epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote in
> news:210720141624300824%nope@noway.com:
>
>> In article <XnsA3714E9CF9DABepwiseyahoocom@69.16.179.22>, Wiseguy
>> <epwise@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Asking a question is not trolling.
>>
>>
>> Deleting followups for no reason is, though. So is deleting followups
>> without notice, as you tried to do here. Inserting your sorry self
>> into a spent discussion just because you're a blockhead with an
>> asshole where his judgment should be may or may not be trolling. It
>> may simply be a cry for help.
>>
>
> Again, I did no such thing.
Of course you did. It's all right here, on the record, for everyone to
see.
> You are delusional. The last time I checked, you are not the owner
> of the Internet. I can say anything I want to whomever I want and if
> you don't like it, YOU can go away and make us all happy.
That's the usual bullshit one hears from some nobody without an
argument to make. At no point did I dictate how you should conduct
yourself here, or tell you what you should or should not say; I simply
pointed out your obvious shortcomings. If you don't like that, you're
free to take your own advice and go away. Up to you.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #262191 is a reply to message #260727] |
Wed, 23 July 2014 14:44 |
Will Dockery
Messages: 23
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:acg8s993skagu886sbdp5i74f2g34ho6sm@4ax.com...
> A classic revisited, just as Harlan envisioned it...
>
> The City that Never Sleeps or Goes Away: Harlan Ellison and Star Trek,
> Again
> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/07/the-city-that-never-sleeps- or-goes-away-harlan-ellison-and-star-trek-again
> or http://preview.tinyurl.com/l4sppdm
>
> QUOTE
> Adapted for the comics by IDW's primary Trek writers Scott and David
> Tipton, and with beautiful art by J.K. Woodward (who did slick work on
> the Doctor Who/TNG crossover a few years ago) everything about this
> release is totally legit. In the debut issue of this limited run (there
> will be five in all) IDW Trek editor Chris Ryall writes fondly about how
> this venture was his idea, and one that took some convincing of
> everybody to go along with. In his words, over time "nos" turned into
> "hmmmms."
> END QUOTE
>
> Okay, so how long until Ellison sues IDW over something about this?
This sparked an interesting discussion and sequel idea with some Trekker
friends of mine:
a.. Walter Mallard Thank you, Will, for letting me know this is ready. I
have been waiting for it. I read the original Harlan Ellison story, so I am
curious to see how it looks as well.
July 19 at 6:35pm · Unlike · 2
b.. Will Dockery Walter, the Harlan Ellison story might fit in more with
the rebooted Star Trek, since it really was "Into Darkness'. As Spock said
"Edith Keeler must die."
1 hr · Like
c.. Walter Mallard Ha! Yeah!
1 hr · Unlike · 1
d.. Will Dockery I would like to see a remake of "The Cage" next, Admiral
Pike gets injected with some Khan blood, but is so crippled he's alive and
well but a veggie in an electric wheelchair. Spock & Kirk, on a tip from
Nimoy, take him to Talos IV, where they can have some trouble with Tribbles
on the way for comic relief. Meanwhile Dr. Marcus has gone away to have
Kirk's son, and maybe Kirstie Alley could step out again as Savik, secret
wife of Spock all these years. Along with a lot of J.J. Abrams confusion and
lens flares.
1 hr · Edited · Like · 1
e.. Walter Mallard Ha! That's great! I'll start writing the screenplay
immediately!
1 hr · Unlike · 1
f.. Will Dockery They might want to recast the Savik role with a younger
babe who can wrestle some of Harry Mudd's Women, and Uhura, and maybe
Christine Chapel (?) for the Rebooted Spock's affections, meanwhile Elder
Nimoy goes into... Pon Far.
1 hr · Like · 1
g.. Walter Mallard That sounds exactly right!
51 mins · Unlike · 1
h.. Will Dockery Not sure if Harlan Ellison ill approve of these changes
in his script. Also Edith Keeler needs to come to the future and help save
the whales.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264842 is a reply to message #260749] |
Tue, 19 August 2014 14:03 |
arromdee
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
> What's also not explained is why Kirk and
> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
> Edith's death was necessary.
You know, I always wondered whi in Doctor Who the Doctor didn't take Adric
off of that freighter. After all, all that is necessary for history is that
the freighter crash, not that Adric be on it.
"Waters of Mars" has a complaint that is even closer to yours.
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
Some fanfic writers really like listening to Evanescence, so they decide to
make all the characters fans of it. Slash fiction is the same, but with
penises instead of Evanescence.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264843 is a reply to message #264842] |
Tue, 19 August 2014 15:11 |
David Johnston
Messages: 220
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>> What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>> Edith's death was necessary.
>
Since they have no ability to move through time themselves and the door
will only open for them once history has been "corrected" this is not a
big mystery.
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| Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264844 is a reply to message #264842] |
Tue, 19 August 2014 15:22 |
anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <lt03gq$b59$1@blue-new.rahul.net>,
arromdee@rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
> In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>> What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>> Edith's death was necessary.
I don't even understand why this is a question. They don't have a time
machine, or a starship to slingshot around the sun, or contact with the
Guardian, and they're not even sure what's supposed to happen. They
just blunder around until Edith gets killed and *pop* they're back to
the future. Even if they were sure of the correct timeline, what were
they supposed to do, yell into the air HEY GUARDIAN WE'VE GOT EDITH HERE
HOW ABOUT YOU RETRIEVE US ALL? And they couldn't even do THAT until
they found McCoy, and they didn't find McCoy until Edith had about 30
seconds to live. Even if they had hatched such a scheme, even if such a
scheme would have worked, they still wouldn't have been able to pull it
off.
Let's play it out. Kirk and Spock find McCoy. Edith, on her way to a
movie that won't come out for years yet so the timeline is already
hosed, steps out in front of a lumbering beer truck. Kirk lets McCoy
save her and ... now what? Nothing happens. They all hang around the
soup kitchen until Edith gets a little too mouthy about being nice to
the Nazis and Spock, having had enough, hits her with the Vulcan Death
Grip. Same outcome, just delayed.
--
Wait - are you saying that ClodReamer was wrong, or lying?
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