| Re: New Forums [message #42713] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 19:12  |
Cameron Kaiser
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Registered: December 2011
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> Are these Wordpress forums email lists, or accessible only via web
> browser?
>
> I have to say that I am unlikely to go to a web only forum very often,
> I like the old school mailing list way of doing things.
I have to say I agree. Mailing lists are convenient in a variety of ways
that web fora are not.
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| Re: New Forums [message #42741 is a reply to message #42713] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 19:58  |
W.Adrian D'Alessio
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Are you still getting your group's mail ?
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com>wrote:
>> Are these Wordpress forums email lists, or accessible only via web
>> browser?
>>
>> I have to say that I am unlikely to go to a web only forum very often,
>> I like the old school mailing list way of doing things.
>
> I have to say I agree. Mailing lists are convenient in a variety of ways
> that web fora are not.
>
> --
> ------------------------------------ personal:
> http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
> Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
> ckaiser@floodgap.com
> -- A witty saying proves nothing. -- Voltaire
> ---------------------------------
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| Re: New Forums [message #42744 is a reply to message #42741] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 20:14 |
Doug McNutt
Messages: 38
Registered: September 2012
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At 19:58 -0400 3/13/13, W.Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
> Are you still getting your group's mail ?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Cameron Kaiser <<mailto:spectre@floodgap.com>spectre@floodgap.com> wrote:
>
>> Are these Wordpress forums email lists, or accessible only via web
>> browser?
>>
>> I have to say that I am unlikely to go to a web only forum very often,
>> I like the old school mailing list way of doing things.
>
> I have to say I agree. Mailing lists are convenient in a variety of ways
> that web fora are not.
A real problem is that some of the menu items don't display well in Classilla
Wordpress doesn't seem to like my choice of password and it seems to want my email address.
My ability to trust Wordpress for anything went away long ago. Our Mac user group, SMMUG, is now using it to handle its website and it sends out nothing but HTML email that takes nearly a megabyte for the smallest message.
Simple forums for simple old OS9 amd Eudora perhaps. Otherwise you'll lose me if I have to go over to my Linux box just to read about low end Macs.
--
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| Re: New Forums [message #42745 is a reply to message #42713] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 20:16 |
Cameron Kaiser
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> A real problem is that some of the menu items don't display well in Classilla
I noticed that, and I can certainly write a Byblos stele to tweak it, but
I'm definitely not happy about the switch in general.
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| Re: New Forums [message #42746 is a reply to message #42744] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 20:37 |
JohnV
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I have several mail-list forums I have wprked with for years. It's
simple direct and efficient. My experieince currently with YAHOO,
which granted is not WORDPRESS, but I have been trying wihtout
success to transition to a YAHOO group for a professional recording
forum and just an hour ago finished freshly registering to YAHOO 9
shiver) a second time to try and keep in touch with things. YAHOO
gave me NO recourse to recover a lost password that involved a real
human being in email or phone, and after weeks I gave up and am
trying under a new name.
What's teh 'advantage' to moving out of an email format?
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| Re: New Forums [message #42747 is a reply to message #42746] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 21:06 |
tina
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Registered: December 2012
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Den Torsdag, 14/3 2013, 01:37, JohnV skrev:
> I have several mail-list forums I have wprked with for years. It's
> simple direct and efficient. My experieince currently with YAHOO,
> which granted is not WORDPRESS, but I have been trying wihtout
> success to transition to a YAHOO group for a professional recording
> forum and just an hour ago finished freshly registering to YAHOO 9
> shiver) a second time to try and keep in touch with things. YAHOO
> gave me NO recourse to recover a lost password that involved a real
> human being in email or phone, and after weeks I gave up and am
> trying under a new name.
> What's teh 'advantage' to moving out of an email format?
the advantage for the website is obvious - though I've been running
screaming away from wordpress several times, any cms is an advantage if
you have more than one person writing
for the lists/groups - well some would probably say that moving away from
google is one
another would be not having to run your own listserver
I can't say I like this change, but I can definetly understand that a cms
is needed to keep things alive
I've been around since the original 040 list, and I'll miss the email
lists, as I find it so much easier to follow discussions this way, as
opposed to having tosign in on a website and browse through fora
I hope though that other old timers, like myself, will eventually migrate
over - it would be so sad if these communities died out just because we'll
have to adjust to new ways
hope to see you all later in a new way at an old place
/tina
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| Re: New Forums [message #42748 is a reply to message #42747] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 21:42 |
Valter Prahlad
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Il giorno 14/03/13 02.06, "tina@nehaia.dk" ha scritto:
> I can't say I like this change, but I can definetly understand that a cms
> is needed to keep things alive
I'm no expert, but I've been using mailing lists for years and years, and
nobody had complaints about them.
So, what's up? :-)
Why do we need a CMS to "keep things alive"?
(especially if most members are complaining about this switch)
I hope it's not about Facebook or anything "social networks"...
because I honestly, sincerely, positively despise and avoid them as much as
I can.
> I hope though that other old timers, like myself, will eventually migrate
> over - it would be so sad if these communities died out just because we'll
> have to adjust to new ways
I know I won't.
As a matter of fact, I'm not a Low-End-Mac user anymore... I'm a happy owner
of an Intel iMac. But I gladly kept here because I like reading about PPC
Macs, and I like helping fellow Mac users when I can.
But if I'd have to actively go to a website and browse posts... I just will
not. Too much of a hassle and, frankly, I see no reason why.
Mailing lists are simple, fast and effective. And I'm all for KISS.
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| Re: New Forums [message #42750 is a reply to message #42746] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 22:28 |
Kris Tilford
Messages: 133
Registered: August 2012
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On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:37 PM, JohnV wrote:
> YAHOO gave me NO recourse to recover a lost password that involved a
> real human being in email or phone, and after weeks I gave up and am
> trying under a new name.
This was EXACTLY my issue with Yahoo. I was "ktilford" @yahoo but
forgot my password, and the next thing I knew I couldn't recover my
password, or contact a live person, or do anything other than become
"ktilford2" in a new account.
> What's the 'advantage' to moving out of an email format?
Yeah, I need a mailing list, not a forum. Forums are a chronological
mess.
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| Re: New Forums [message #42753 is a reply to message #42748] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 22:47 |
Ken Daggett
Messages: 51
Registered: August 2012
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On 13 Mar 2013, at 18:42:42 PDT, Valter Prahlad wrote:
> As a matter of fact, I'm not a Low-End-Mac user anymore... I'm a
> happy owner
> of an Intel iMac. But I gladly kept here because I like reading
> about PPC
> Macs, and I like helping fellow Mac users when I can.
> But if I'd have to actively go to a website and browse posts... I
> just will
> not. Too much of a hassle and, frankly, I see no reason why.
>
> Mailing lists are simple, fast and effective. And I'm all for KISS.
---------------
Well said. Ditto.
Ken
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| Re: New Forums [message #42787 is a reply to message #42748] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 23:26 |
tina
Messages: 19
Registered: December 2012
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Den Torsdag, 14/3 2013, 02:42, Valter Prahlad skrev:
> Il giorno 14/03/13 02.06, "tina@nehaia.dk" ha scritto:
>
>> I can't say I like this change, but I can definetly understand that a
>> cms
>> is needed to keep things alive
> I'm no expert, but I've been using mailing lists for years and years, and
> nobody had complaints about them.
> So, what's up? :-)
> Why do we need a CMS to "keep things alive"?
> (especially if most members are complaining about this switch)
the cms is for the website, you can read dan's own words about that part
here:
<http://lowendmac.com/2013/welcome-to-wordpress/>
as for mailing lists, I prefer them over a forum too. I haven't tried
running a list on google, so I don't know the reason for migrating to fora
instead
but I do know something about running listservers and that's not for kids
these days, I can assure you
> I hope it's not about Facebook or anything "social networks"...
> because I honestly, sincerely, positively despise and avoid them as much
> as
> I can.
I sincerely agree, I don't have a facebook or linked in or... account.
never will either
>> I hope though that other old timers, like myself, will eventually
>> migrate
>> over - it would be so sad if these communities died out just because
>> we'll
>> have to adjust to new ways
> I know I won't.
I'm worried that this will be then end for a lot of old timers - on the
other hand, there were also a lot of fuzz when we migrated to google and
when we migrated from whereever it was that we resided before.
there always is, when things change.
personally I'm all for getting away from google, but I'd definetly prefer
another listserv solution
> As a matter of fact, I'm not a Low-End-Mac user anymore... I'm a happy
> owner
> of an Intel iMac. But I gladly kept here because I like reading about PPC
> Macs, and I like helping fellow Mac users when I can.
I am a lowend user, and a short trip over to the new forum revealed that I
can use the fora on my powerbook g4 with 10.4.11 and tenfourfox 7.0
> But if I'd have to actively go to a website and browse posts... I just
> will
> not. Too much of a hassle and, frankly, I see no reason why.
yup, it's a hassle, and I'll probably find it hard to find the time to do
so myself, even if I want to.
I see a real danger that a lot of people will only find their way over
there, when they encounter problems, and that a lot of the knowledgeable
people will disappear
> Mailing lists are simple, fast and effective. And I'm all for KISS.
yes they are - on the recieving end
/tina
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| Re: New Forums [message #42788 is a reply to message #42787] |
Wed, 13 March 2013 23:54 |
Valter Prahlad
Messages: 87
Registered: September 2012
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Il giorno 14/03/13 04.26, "tina@nehaia.dk" ha scritto:
> the cms is for the website, you can read dan's own words about that part
> here:
>
> <http://lowendmac.com/2013/welcome-to-wordpress/>
Thank you for the link.
As far as I understand, two main things are changing:
A) The LEM website will be hosted/managed with Wordpress.
B) The mailing lists will be ported to the same website.
I understand the need for A), the improvements (both technical and for the
people working on it), and I appreciate WP (I even have my professional
website there).
OTOH, B) seems (to me) much less justified; I managed a mailing lists for
years (on YahooGroups), and I had not much to do, save for kicking out
spammers and explaining rules to newcomers.
Ok, GoogleGroups may be seen as evil, but I'm sure there are free mail list
hosting alternatives.
> but I do know something about running listservers and that's not for kids
> these days, I can assure you
But if the List is hosted by GoogleGroup, what's about a listserver?
Isn't it something you have to manage if you host the List yourself?
> I'm worried that this will be then end for a lot of old timers - on the
> other hand, there were also a lot of fuzz when we migrated to google and
> when we migrated from whereever it was that we resided before.
> there always is, when things change.
Yeah, I know. But that was a migration from a different platform for the
SAME service (mailing list).
Migrating to a (very) different service is not just a nuisance, it's a
revolution.
> I see a real danger that a lot of people will only find their way over
> there, when they encounter problems
Yes, exactly that: I usually go to forums just when I have a need/problem,
while I happily browse the mails coming in thru the various Lists I'm
subscribed to.
All in all, I think the people runnning LEM will hear users opinions, and
they will decide what's best.
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| Re: New Forums [message #42814 is a reply to message #42787] |
Thu, 14 March 2013 08:50 |
dianed143
Messages: 10
Registered: January 2013
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Junior Member |
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I think the site move is great if it keeps the LEM info alive and is easier
to manage.
But the move to a forum is horrible! I also prefer to get all my emails in
my email program, on my computer. I can filter, sort, delete and file to my
hearts content. And easily find them again.
With a forum, I have to bookmark/subscribe - if it's even offered. I'd have
to cut and paste into a blank email if I really wanted to file it with what
I have in my computer. I have to remember to go there to get the same info
that happily shows up here already. I love the LEM lists but I'd have to
say if they went to a web forum, I too would only go there when I needed
help for something.
I've built web sites, run mailing lists and forums. I've found mailing
lists to be the easiest things to manage over the years. I really hope the
forum doesn't happen :(
Diane
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| Re: New Forums [message #42973 is a reply to message #42787] |
Thu, 14 March 2013 18:25 |
Koralatov
Messages: 21
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 03:26, tina@nehaia.dk wrote:
> as for mailing lists, I prefer them over a forum too. I haven't tried
> running a list on google, so I don't know the reason for migrating to
> fora instead but I do know something about running listservers and
> that's not for kids these days, I can assure you
That's not necessarily a bad thing, and probably won't impact Low End
Mac particularly: most people using vintage Mac hardware are late-20s+,
and most of them are comfortable using a mailing list.
The *other* advantage of mailing lists, with the associated `hassle' of
having to explicitly subscribe to them, is that it acts as a very
straightforward ``idiot filter''. Just having to go through something
as `complicated' as signing up via e-mail or the Google Groups interface
keeps a lot of idiots out.
>> I hope it's not about Facebook or anything "social networks"...
>> because I honestly, sincerely, positively despise and avoid them as
>> much as I can.
>
> I sincerely agree, I don't have a facebook or linked in or... account.
> never will either
I have a Twitter account, but not a Facebook or LinkedIn one. None of
those are particularly appropriate for the sorts of discussions that
take place on this mailing list anyway. Twitter is too short-form to
contain any really useful information in any single tweet, and Facebook
is pretty explicitly designed to focus only on what's recent, with
everything else sinking below the noticeable (and easily findable)
threshold.
The existence of easily indexable archives, with complete conversation
threads, is a massive strongpoint that you throw away if you move over
to a social network. I can't count the number of times I *haven't* had
to post to a mailing list because I've been able to find a solution by
googling my problem and stumbling onto an earlier discussion that
answered my question.
The third strike against using a social network is that you lost
ownership and control of the discussions. If $SOCIAL_NETWORK goes
bust/closes down/bins everything, you're screwed. This obviously
applies to Google Groups too, but a mailing list can easily be ported
over to Mailman or one of the other mailing list managers very easily,
preserving the structure (and hopefully contents) of the list.
> I'm worried that this will be then end for a lot of old timers - on
> the other hand, there were also a lot of fuzz when we migrated to
> google and when we migrated from whereever it was that we resided
> before. there always is, when things change.
That's true, but I think the fuss this time is that we aren't moving
from one email list provider to another, but from an email list to a
forum. That's a *much* bigger, more disruptive change than a shift in
mailing list host; the method of interaction has been radically
changed, and not necessarily for the better.
> personally I'm all for getting away from google, but I'd definetly
> prefer another listserv solution
Ditto on escaping Google if at all possible (though it does score some
points for supporting X-No-Archive). Ditto on preferring another
listserv solution.
--
Mike | <http://koralatov.com>
15.4" `Penryn' MacBook Pro 2.66 | 20" iMac G4
`Key Lime' iBook G3 466 | G4 Cube 500
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| Re: New Forums [message #42974 is a reply to message #42814] |
Thu, 14 March 2013 18:31 |
Koralatov
Messages: 21
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:50, diane wrote:
> I think the site move is great if it keeps the LEM info alive and is
> easier to manage.
The website itself will definitely be easier to manage using Wordpress,
because a CMS of that sort is much better suited to managing a large
website than the previously kludgey Claris Homepage approach. It isn't,
however, at all related to the new forums -- the two aren't
intrinsically or inextricably linked to each other.
> But the move to a forum is horrible! I also prefer to get all my
> emails in my email program, on my computer. I can filter, sort, delete
> and file to my hearts content. And easily find them again.
That's why I prefer mailing lists to forums: I can use whatever program
I want when I interact with them. The fact I can use mutt, and have it
*automatically* set the sending e-mail address, signature, and a hundred
other variables makes, for me, a pleasure rather than a chore. Thinking
about changing from that to a forum doesn't seem worth the hassle.
--
Mike | <http://koralatov.com>
15.4" `Penryn' MacBook Pro 2.66 | 20" iMac G4
`Key Lime' iBook G3 466 | G4 Cube 500
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| Re: New Forums [message #43023 is a reply to message #42748] |
Fri, 15 March 2013 03:15 |
Charles Lenington
Messages: 45
Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 3/13/13 20:42 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:
> Il giorno 14/03/13 02.06, "tina@nehaia.dk" ha scritto:
>
>> I can't say I like this change, but I can definetly understand that a cms
cms = ????
>
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| Re: New Forums [message #43043 is a reply to message #43023] |
Fri, 15 March 2013 06:06 |
Fabian Fang
Messages: 33
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Mar 15, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Charles Lenington wrote:
> cms = ????
Content Management System:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system>
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