| Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249604] |
Mon, 14 April 2014 16:16  |
Iamanamma
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives. I took
one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not
recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus. I was using an OS 8.6 install
disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS. I had a
new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up
from the CD, and the same thing happened. Nothing was visible on the ATA
bus. I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it.
This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and
sure enough it was. I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard),
shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive
on the ATA bus. Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS
8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem? The old drive I took out
was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need
this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249619 is a reply to message #249604] |
Mon, 14 April 2014 18:21  |
W.Adrian D'Alessio
Messages: 83
Registered: November 2012
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Starting with the extremely simple basics you ahve already;
1. Cleaned all port and cable end connections with an old toothbrush and
contact cleaner or isopropyl alcohol. Scrubbing them thoroughly.
2. After plugging them in and trying to boot up, wiggled the cables along
their length to see it you could hear any tentative sounds from the hard
drive.
3. Inspected cables for damage of any kind.
4. Made a continuity check on any suspect cables.
5. dumped the PRAM.
6. Reset the CUDA switch on the motherboard ( I cannot recall if that is
PCI only.)
7. Made sure the motherboard battery is in good shape.
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Iamanamma <vsanders@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives. I took
> one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not
> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus. I was using an OS 8.6 install
> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS. I had a
> new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up
> from the CD, and the same thing happened. Nothing was visible on the ATA
> bus. I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it.
> This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and
> sure enough it was. I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard),
> shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive
> on the ATA bus. Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS
> 8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem? The old drive I took out
> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need
> this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249629 is a reply to message #249604] |
Mon, 14 April 2014 22:17 |
Manoah F. Adams
Messages: 14
Registered: August 2013
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On Apr 14, 2014, at 13:16 , Iamanamma wrote:
> I took one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not
recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus. I was using > an OS 8.6 install
disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.
You had two drives, or just one?
If two, is it the boot drive that was suspect, or the other one?
> Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS 8.6?
Newer systems are always being updated to handle improved drive
technologies, so it is quite possible that 9.2 would see something that 8.6
didn't.
The size of the drives is also important, as every OS version and machine
have their own limits. Is the Seagate larger than the Quantum?
Is the Seagate larger that 128 GB ?
Is it the Seagate that is only being seen by OS 9.2? or the Quantum ?
> Could this be a simple as a jumper problem? The old drive I took out was
a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate.
Yes, it could be, but if OS 9 is seeing the drive and OS 8 is not, then
that is less likely.
If you have two drives installed, and one is set to 'master' or 'slave'
then the other drive needs to be set to the other setting.
If one drive is 'cable select' then so should the other.
Manoah F. Adams
federaladamsfamily.com/developer
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249630 is a reply to message #249629] |
Mon, 14 April 2014 22:41 |
peterhaas
Messages: 80
Registered: September 2012
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> Newer systems are always being updated to handle improved drive
> technologies, so it is quite possible that 9.2 would see something that
> 8.6
> didn't.
> The size of the drives is also important, as every OS version and machine
> have their own limits. Is the Seagate larger than the Quantum?
> Is the Seagate larger that 128 GB ?
The Subject stated "G3, 266 mhz tower", and most of those were made with
Rev 1 ROMs, which only support Masters, and possibly only 128 GB.
A Rev 2 or 3 ROM will support Slaves, of course.
It has been a LONG time that I have had my Beige powered-on, but a 300 MHz
pretty much required a Rev 2 ROM, and the Rev 3 ROM was released because
it cured issues with certain video cards and the Rev 2 ROM.
In any case, the beige used DMA mode, and it was the UATA in the Blue and
White which got into trouble with greater than 128 MB drives, until the
UATA chip was fixed.
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249676 is a reply to message #249629] |
Tue, 15 April 2014 13:55 |
Iamanamma
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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I am only trying to have one hard drive installed at a time, and I want to
set it up as the boot drive. I am not quite sophisticated nor interested
enough to figure out how to put two hard drives on my ATA bus, especially
since I really want to keep that third drive bay open to take advantage of
that nice SCSI cable sitting in there. I have some even OLDER Macs I need
to keep running, and they all require SCSI drives. I have tried the Seagate
drive with the jumpers set to either the "single drive" setting, or the
"cable select" setting. I have not tried the Quantum drive with an
alternative jumper setting.
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:17:53 PM UTC-4, mhfadams wrote:
>
> On Apr 14, 2014, at 13:16 , Iamanamma wrote:
>
>> I took one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not
> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus. I was using > an OS 8.6 install
> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.
>
> You had two drives, or just one?
> If two, is it the boot drive that was suspect, or the other one?
>
>> Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS 8.6?
>
> Newer systems are always being updated to handle improved drive
> technologies, so it is quite possible that 9.2 would see something that 8.6
> didn't.
> The size of the drives is also important, as every OS version and machine
> have their own limits. Is the Seagate larger than the Quantum?
> Is the Seagate larger that 128 GB ?
>
> Is it the Seagate that is only being seen by OS 9.2? or the Quantum ?
>
>> Could this be a simple as a jumper problem? The old drive I took out
> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate.
>
> Yes, it could be, but if OS 9 is seeing the drive and OS 8 is not, then
> that is less likely.
>
> If you have two drives installed, and one is set to 'master' or 'slave'
> then the other drive needs to be set to the other setting.
> If one drive is 'cable select' then so should the other.
>
>
>
> Manoah F. Adams
> federaladamsfamily.com/developer
>
>
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249677 is a reply to message #249604] |
Tue, 15 April 2014 15:00 |
Iamanamma
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2014
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Junior Member |
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I made some progress today, I have an old copy of DiskWarrior, and when I
started up from that CD, the new Seagate hard drive mounted (with the
jumpers set to cable select). I ran DiskWarrior and then restarted from
the OS 8.6 CD. The drive mounted again. Since the drive is a little on the
large side, I partitioned it as I have seen recommended. Right now the G3
is chugging along, installing OS 8.6 onto 7 GB partition I made in the hard
drive. Wish me luck.
On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:16:58 PM UTC-4, Iamanamma wrote:
>
> I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives. I took
> one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not
> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus. I was using an OS 8.6 install
> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS. I had a
> new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up
> from the CD, and the same thing happened. Nothing was visible on the ATA
> bus. I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it.
> This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and
> sure enough it was. I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard),
> shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive
> on the ATA bus. Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS
> 8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem? The old drive I took out
> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need
> this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
>
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249688 is a reply to message #249677] |
Tue, 15 April 2014 15:59 |
Iamanamma
Messages: 4
Registered: April 2014
Karma: 0
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Success!
On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:00:38 PM UTC-4, Iamanamma wrote:
>
> I made some progress today, I have an old copy of DiskWarrior, and when I
> started up from that CD, the new Seagate hard drive mounted (with the
> jumpers set to cable select). I ran DiskWarrior and then restarted from
> the OS 8.6 CD. The drive mounted again. Since the drive is a little on the
> large side, I partitioned it as I have seen recommended. Right now the G3
> is chugging along, installing OS 8.6 onto 7 GB partition I made in the hard
> drive. Wish me luck.
>
>
> On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:16:58 PM UTC-4, Iamanamma wrote:
>>
>> I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives. I
>> took one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not
>> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus. I was using an OS 8.6 install
>> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS. I had a
>> new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up
>> from the CD, and the same thing happened. Nothing was visible on the ATA
>> bus. I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it.
>> This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and
>> sure enough it was. I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard),
>> shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive
>> on the ATA bus. Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS
>> 8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem? The old drive I took out
>> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need
>> this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
>>
>
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| Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower [message #249689 is a reply to message #249676] |
Tue, 15 April 2014 16:11 |
peterhaas
Messages: 80
Registered: September 2012
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Member |
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> I have tried the Seagate
> drive with the jumpers set to either the "single drive" setting, or the
> "cable select" setting. I have not tried the Quantum drive with an
> alternative jumper setting.
Apple began using Cable Select cables with the B&W G3, after it had
licensed hp/Compaq's patent on cable select and the hardware in the host
adapter which supports it.
Cable Select involves cutting certain wires in the 40-pin/80-wire ribbon
cable, and the, using three different types of connectors, each of which
appears to be the same, but are internally different.
With a Beige, Apple was not using Cable Select, it was using
40-pin/40-wire ribbon cables, so your best option is ... on Rev 2 or Rev 3
ROM machines (this won't work on Rev 1 ROM machines) ... to set one drive
to Master and the other drive to Slave.
It is customary for the farthest away drive to be Master, but this is not
a real requirement as "masters" and "slaves" are really "peers".
On a B&W or later, simply set both drives to Cable Select.
Indeed, on a B&W and later, the Zip drive may be replaced by an additional
hard drive, although the Zip drive carrier is drilled for M3 retention
screws in a Zip pattern, and not for #6-32 UNC retention screws in a hard
drive patterd.
No matter, a hard drive may be installed in the Zip drive carrier without
screws, if that suits you.
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