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Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166901] Sat, 05 August 2006 14:06 Go to next message
Fergus Logan is currently offline  Fergus Logan
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Registered: March 2005
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Is there such a thing as a service manual for the 1520 printer plotter, or
the Alps plotter mechanism?

I have 2 of these beasts, both with the same problem; the paper feed slips.
On the right hand side of the mechanism, the cog that is attached to the
platten seems to have a spring that has come loose. This cog has two wheels
to it and appears to be some sort of clutch mechanism. does anyone know how
the cog should look with the spring in the correct place?

Kind Regards,
Fergus.
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166917 is a reply to message #166901] Sat, 05 August 2006 20:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
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Fergus Logan wrote:
>
> Is there such a thing as a service manual for the 1520 printer plotter, or
> the Alps plotter mechanism?
>
> I have 2 of these beasts, both with the same problem; the paper feed slips.
> On the right hand side of the mechanism, the cog that is attached to the
> platten seems to have a spring that has come loose. This cog has two wheels
> to it and appears to be some sort of clutch mechanism. does anyone know how
> the cog should look with the spring in the correct place?
>
Radio Shack sold this same mechanism in a pen plotter of theirs.
I know that RS had a maintenance manual for their plotter, and you
may still be able to order it through them.

--
+----------------------------------------------------------- -----+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------- -----+
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166930 is a reply to message #166917] Sun, 06 August 2006 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brian Ketterling is currently offline  Brian Ketterling
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Registered: January 2005
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"Charles Richmond" <richchas@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:44D5334D.7A4FFEFF@comcast.net...
>
> Radio Shack sold this same mechanism in a pen plotter of theirs.
> I know that RS had a maintenance manual for their plotter, and you
> may still be able to order it through them.

For what it's worth, I believe Alps sold this printer-plotter mechanism to a
number of home computer manufacturers around 1985. The Tandy plotter was a
CGP-115, and there were also the Atari 1020 and Texas Instruments HX-1000,
among others.

Amazingly, Radio Shack has a diagram of the mechanism ("head assembly")
here:

http://support.radioshack.com/support_accessories/5632.htm

Brian
--
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166935 is a reply to message #166930] Sun, 06 August 2006 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fergus Logan is currently offline  Fergus Logan
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Thanks for the info.

"Brian Ketterling" <tweel6510@no-potted-meat-products-peoplepc.com> wrote in
message news:1veBg.173$Sn3.91@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Charles Richmond" <richchas@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:44D5334D.7A4FFEFF@comcast.net...
>>
>> Radio Shack sold this same mechanism in a pen plotter of theirs.
>> I know that RS had a maintenance manual for their plotter, and you
>> may still be able to order it through them.
>
> For what it's worth, I believe Alps sold this printer-plotter mechanism to
> a
> number of home computer manufacturers around 1985. The Tandy plotter was
> a
> CGP-115, and there were also the Atari 1020 and Texas Instruments HX-1000,
> among others.
>
> Amazingly, Radio Shack has a diagram of the mechanism ("head assembly")
> here:
>
> http://support.radioshack.com/support_accessories/5632.htm
>
> Brian
> --
>
>
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166963 is a reply to message #166901] Sun, 06 August 2006 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a7yvm109gf5d1 is currently offline  a7yvm109gf5d1
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Registered: February 2005
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Senior Member
Fergus Logan wrote:
> Is there such a thing as a service manual for the 1520 printer plotter, or
> the Alps plotter mechanism?
>
> I have 2 of these beasts, both with the same problem; the paper feed slips.
> On the right hand side of the mechanism, the cog that is attached to the
> platten seems to have a spring that has come loose. This cog has two wheels
> to it and appears to be some sort of clutch mechanism. does anyone know how
> the cog should look with the spring in the correct place?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Fergus.

IIRC, the main failure mode of these printers is that the plastic gear
on the motor's shaft cracks. You can't repair that failure. I'm not
sure what you mean by "slips", but if the gear is cracked, the printer
can't feed paper properly.
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166968 is a reply to message #166963] Sun, 06 August 2006 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brian Ketterling is currently offline  Brian Ketterling
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<a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1154883753.500129.102060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> IIRC, the main failure mode of these printers is that the plastic gear
> on the motor's shaft cracks. You can't repair that failure. I'm not
> sure what you mean by "slips", but if the gear is cracked, the printer
> can't feed paper properly.

Arr... the pinion gear on the X and Y stepper-motor shafts? One of those
split on my plotter, and I was never able to find a replacement: Alps seems
to have used a gear with some arcane combination of diameter and pitch. I
was able to fix it to the "workable" point, though, with Sicomet #50
adhesive. It both filled the crack and glued the gear to the shaft,
preventing slipping -- I just precleaned carefully with acetone, then
cleared the set adhesive from between adjacent gear teeth with an X-Acto.
It's probably been a decade, and the fix is still good (as far as I know --
I haven't dug out the plotter this summer). Of course, when the pinion gear
split (longitudinally, between 2 teeth), the sides of the crack retracted a
little from each other, so I've got that damn little "long step" on the Y
axis. It's a niggling concern, though -- for example, text at small sizes
is still perfectly legible.

Brian
--
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166977 is a reply to message #166968] Mon, 07 August 2006 04:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raymond Day is currently offline  Raymond Day
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Registered: February 2013
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Member
Yes the thing that goes bacd on the 1520 plotter is the plastic gears! It's
like they get old and brittle. There are 2 of them to gether with a spring.
I guess so the teeth in the gears can be real tight. But printing out
something that takes a lot to do like a screen dump can crack the gears.

To bad they did not make the gears out of metal or steel. Or a 80 column
one.

I remember at one time long ago toys R us selling them for very cheep. I for
get what cost just that it was very cheep. It would be good to have a back
up. But I think with out ever using on with the age the plastic gears would
still crack.

-Raymond Day
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166983 is a reply to message #166977] Mon, 07 August 2006 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fergus Logan is currently offline  Fergus Logan
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Registered: March 2005
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Junior Member
After closely checking these gears I did notice that on one of the
mechanisms this is indeed the case, and you physically see the motor
spinning, but the gear does not turn. However, on the other mechanism, this
gear does seem intact and all gears on the feed mechanism spin as they
should. However, the feed still slips. I am not sure whether or not the gear
with the spring mechanism has anything to do with it, but it certainly isnt
attached to anything at the moment.



"Raymond Day" <raymondday61@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:6YCBg.1719$1f6.219@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Yes the thing that goes bacd on the 1520 plotter is the plastic gears!
> It's like they get old and brittle. There are 2 of them to gether with a
> spring. I guess so the teeth in the gears can be real tight. But printing
> out something that takes a lot to do like a screen dump can crack the
> gears.
>
> To bad they did not make the gears out of metal or steel. Or a 80 column
> one.
>
> I remember at one time long ago toys R us selling them for very cheep. I
> for get what cost just that it was very cheep. It would be good to have a
> back up. But I think with out ever using on with the age the plastic gears
> would still crack.
>
> -Raymond Day
>
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #166991 is a reply to message #166983] Mon, 07 August 2006 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a7yvm109gf5d1 is currently offline  a7yvm109gf5d1
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Registered: February 2005
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Senior Member
Fergus Logan wrote:
> After closely checking these gears I did notice that on one of the
> mechanisms this is indeed the case, and you physically see the motor
> spinning, but the gear does not turn. However, on the other mechanism, this
> gear does seem intact and all gears on the feed mechanism spin as they
> should. However, the feed still slips. I am not sure whether or not the gear
> with the spring mechanism has anything to do with it, but it certainly isnt
> attached to anything at the moment.
>

There you go. Sadly, this is why the 1520 is a door-stop or a
paper-weight. You can improvise new pens, or drill them out and try to
fill them, but those gears are hopeless. I think they crack because
they are just poorly designed. There just isn't enough plastic (nylon?)
left around the shaft and the friction-fit stresses the gear too much.

I've wanted to make a mold of it and somehow make a new one but when
you can get inkjets for 60$, who cares anymore?
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167012 is a reply to message #166991] Tue, 08 August 2006 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patryk 'Silver Dream  is currently offline  Patryk 'Silver Dream
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Senior Member
a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:

>
> I've wanted to make a mold of it and somehow make a new one but when
> you can get inkjets for 60$, who cares anymore?
>

Well, some people do. Isn't it the same as "when you can get a pc for
$100 or less, who cares about the PETs" ;-)
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167017 is a reply to message #167012] Tue, 08 August 2006 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a7yvm109gf5d1 is currently offline  a7yvm109gf5d1
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silverdr wrote:
> a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I've wanted to make a mold of it and somehow make a new one but when
>> you can get inkjets for 60$, who cares anymore?
>>
>
> Well, some people do. Isn't it the same as "when you can get a pc for
> $100 or less, who cares about the PETs" ;-)

Not really, people never built new gears for old printers, but you can
still program old computers today and build generic electronics for
them... Making nylon gears is a bit less accessible I think. :)
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167020 is a reply to message #167017] Tue, 08 August 2006 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
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a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
>
> silverdr wrote:
>> a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've wanted to make a mold of it and somehow make a new one but when
>>> you can get inkjets for 60$, who cares anymore?
>>>
>>
>> Well, some people do. Isn't it the same as "when you can get a pc for
>> $100 or less, who cares about the PETs" ;-)
>
> Not really, people never built new gears for old printers, but you can
> still program old computers today and build generic electronics for
> them... Making nylon gears is a bit less accessible I think. :)
>
Maybe a group here can get together and get a machine shop to tool
up some steel gears. Or who ever does this work...perhaps someone
can "forge" some nylon gears.

You can find a list of folks who make nylon gears at:

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/nylon-gears-34200402-1.htm l


--
+----------------------------------------------------------- -----+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------- -----+
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167025 is a reply to message #167020] Tue, 08 August 2006 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brian Ketterling is currently offline  Brian Ketterling
Messages: 468
Registered: January 2005
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"Charles Richmond" <richchas@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:44D8B240.931FD43F@comcast.net...
>
> Maybe a group here can get together and get a machine shop to tool
> up some steel gears...

Or brass.

Brian
--
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167027 is a reply to message #167020] Tue, 08 August 2006 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a7yvm109gf5d1 is currently offline  a7yvm109gf5d1
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Senior Member
Charles Richmond wrote:
>
> You can find a list of folks who make nylon gears at:
>
> http://www.thomasnet.com/products/nylon-gears-34200402-1.htm l
>

If we could find a machinist or mech eng that specializes in these tiny
gears it would be cool. Or perhaps we can think sideways and look into
toys like those miniature r/c cars that you can buy parts for... The
best thing would be to measure the 1520's gear with a good caliper and
get all the relevant data on it. # of teeth, pitch, etc...

My 1520 is in deep, deep DEEP storage. As in I don't know where it is.
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167031 is a reply to message #166991] Tue, 08 August 2006 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fergus Logan is currently offline  Fergus Logan
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Registered: March 2005
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Junior Member
Your absolutley right about the price of a new Inkjet. Here in the UK,
you can pick them up for less then the price of an ink cartridge these
days. But the 1520 has the novelty factor that you just dont get with
printers these days.

Mind you, the printer doesnt really help itself; when you power the
thing up, the pen carriage shoots to the left and makes a grinding
noise, before finally printing the four squares. I wonder if the other
manufacturers plotters did this same ritual, or is it just a Commodore
thing.


a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
> Fergus Logan wrote:
>> After closely checking these gears I did notice that on one of the
>> mechanisms this is indeed the case, and you physically see the motor
>> spinning, but the gear does not turn. However, on the other mechanism, this
>> gear does seem intact and all gears on the feed mechanism spin as they
>> should. However, the feed still slips. I am not sure whether or not the gear
>> with the spring mechanism has anything to do with it, but it certainly isnt
>> attached to anything at the moment.
>>
>
> There you go. Sadly, this is why the 1520 is a door-stop or a
> paper-weight. You can improvise new pens, or drill them out and try to
> fill them, but those gears are hopeless. I think they crack because
> they are just poorly designed. There just isn't enough plastic (nylon?)
> left around the shaft and the friction-fit stresses the gear too much.
>
> I've wanted to make a mold of it and somehow make a new one but when
> you can get inkjets for 60$, who cares anymore?
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167032 is a reply to message #166991] Tue, 08 August 2006 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fergus Logan is currently offline  Fergus Logan
Messages: 25
Registered: March 2005
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Junior Member
Your absolutley right about the price of a new Inkjet. Here in the UK,
you can pick them up for less then the price of an ink cartridge these
days. But the 1520 has the novelty factor that you just dont get with
printers these days.

Mind you, the printer doesnt really help itself; when you power the
thing up, the pen carriage shoots to the left and makes a grinding
noise, before finally printing the four squares. I wonder if the other
manufacturers plotters did this same ritual, or is it just a Commodore
thing.


a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
> Fergus Logan wrote:
>> After closely checking these gears I did notice that on one of the
>> mechanisms this is indeed the case, and you physically see the motor
>> spinning, but the gear does not turn. However, on the other mechanism, this
>> gear does seem intact and all gears on the feed mechanism spin as they
>> should. However, the feed still slips. I am not sure whether or not the gear
>> with the spring mechanism has anything to do with it, but it certainly isnt
>> attached to anything at the moment.
>>
>
> There you go. Sadly, this is why the 1520 is a door-stop or a
> paper-weight. You can improvise new pens, or drill them out and try to
> fill them, but those gears are hopeless. I think they crack because
> they are just poorly designed. There just isn't enough plastic (nylon?)
> left around the shaft and the friction-fit stresses the gear too much.
>
> I've wanted to make a mold of it and somehow make a new one but when
> you can get inkjets for 60$, who cares anymore?
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167033 is a reply to message #167031] Tue, 08 August 2006 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a7yvm109gf5d1 is currently offline  a7yvm109gf5d1
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Registered: February 2005
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Senior Member
Ferg wrote:
> Your absolutley right about the price of a new Inkjet. Here in the UK,
> you can pick them up for less then the price of an ink cartridge these
> days. But the 1520 has the novelty factor that you just dont get with
> printers these days.
>
> Mind you, the printer doesnt really help itself; when you power the
> thing up, the pen carriage shoots to the left and makes a grinding
> noise, before finally printing the four squares. I wonder if the other
> manufacturers plotters did this same ritual, or is it just a Commodore
> thing.

Perhaps a microswitch is defective? Don't know if there is one, but
tiny cheap switches with no current going through them to "clean" the
contacts often go bad.
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167038 is a reply to message #167033] Tue, 08 August 2006 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fergus Logan is currently offline  Fergus Logan
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Registered: March 2005
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Junior Member
No. It is the normal behaviour on the 1520. I have seen this on others,
and back in the '80s when mine was new, it did that then too.

a7yvm109gf5d1@netzero.com wrote:
> Ferg wrote:
>> Your absolutley right about the price of a new Inkjet. Here in the UK,
>> you can pick them up for less then the price of an ink cartridge these
>> days. But the 1520 has the novelty factor that you just dont get with
>> printers these days.
>>
>> Mind you, the printer doesnt really help itself; when you power the
>> thing up, the pen carriage shoots to the left and makes a grinding
>> noise, before finally printing the four squares. I wonder if the other
>> manufacturers plotters did this same ritual, or is it just a Commodore
>> thing.
>
> Perhaps a microswitch is defective? Don't know if there is one, but
> tiny cheap switches with no current going through them to "clean" the
> contacts often go bad.
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #167086 is a reply to message #167038] Thu, 10 August 2006 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brian Ketterling is currently offline  Brian Ketterling
Messages: 468
Registered: January 2005
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Senior Member
"Ferg" <fergus@logans.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:1155069981.643373.142340@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> No. It is the normal behaviour on the 1520. I have seen this on others,
> and back in the '80s when mine was new, it did that then too.

It's getting itself oriented during its power-up initialization. First it
drives the "head" to the left stop. It doesn't have a switch or other
sensor for this, so it simply does enough motor-steps to place it there,
even if it had been at the full-right position at power-on. If it *wasn't*
full-right to start with, then it hits the left stop and "grinds" its way
through the full number of steps -- kind of like a 1541 head-bump.

After this, it orients the rotating four-color pen turret to the "black"
position. It does have a sensor for this: there's a little bar magnet set
into the side of the turret which activates a magnetic reed switch on the
carriage's frame. You can hear this second stage, too -- a
"ticka-ticka-ticka, ticka-ticka-ticka" as it steps the turret around.

Finally it draws the four-color squares to get the pens started, feeds to a
new line, then comes to rest.

You can avoid the nasty grinding by pressing the pen-change button and
letting it ride over to the full-right position before turning it off (you
ought to anyway, so you can take the pens out and cap them -- they use
liquid ink and will dry up if you leave them in the plotter).

Brian
--
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #270374 is a reply to message #166901] Wed, 08 October 2014 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Aturnwald

Hello, I've got the Manual, also I've got help for the paper problem, just write a Email to Aturnwald@eclipso.at
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #270405 is a reply to message #166901] Wed, 08 October 2014 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Aturnwald

Hello, I've got the Manual, also I've got help for the paper problem, just write a Email to Aturnwald@eclipso.at
Re: Service manual for 1520 plotter [message #389523 is a reply to message #270374] Mon, 23 December 2019 18:52 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: IDLookout

On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 at 3:57:12 PM UTC-7, Aturnwald wrote:
> Hello, I've got the Manual, also I've got help for the paper problem, just write a Email to Aturnwald@eclipso.at

I can't get your email to work, not sure if you're still in the group, but:

My gears are new, everything is fine.. mostly.

But my paper slips, with just a little pressure, i can hold the gear and turn the platen. There are no splits in the gears. It does seem like there is a clutch/spring in the platen roll, but i'm not sure.

You said that you had a solution?

thanks for your time
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