Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8758
Posted: Tue Oct 12 02:32:28 1982
Received: Sun Oct 17 03:15:27 1982

>From SFL@SRI-CSL Mon Oct 11 20:55:03 1982

SF-LOVERS Digest          11-Oct-82	       Volume 6 : Issue 58

Today's Topics:
    Dune declining, SF cons list update, ET, Piers Anthony, Bradbury
    Brunner, Jedi trailer, MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS query, sequel
    failures, AI in SF query, Bradley's HAWKMISTRESS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Sep 1982 0003-PDT
From: Zellich at OFFICE-3 (Rich Zellich)
Subject: SF Cons listing updated
To:   Cons-List update notice list:
cc:   SF-Lovers-Request at SRI-CSL

OFFICE-3 file CONS.TXT has been updated and is now ready for
FTP.  OFFICE-3 supports the net-standard "ANONYMOUS" Login within FTP,
using any password.

CONS.TXT is currently 1088 lines (or 53,175 characters).  Please try to
limit your FTP jobs to before 0600-CDT and after 1600-CDT if possible,
as the system is heavily loaded during the day.

Enjoy,
Rich

------------------------------

Date: 16 Sep 1982 1709-EDT
From: YOUNG at DEC-MARLBORO
To: SF-Lovers at MIT-AI
Subject: [DD-B : SF Lovers submission]

- - - - - - - Begin message from: DD-B 
Date: 15 September 1982  10:45-EDT (Wednesday)
To: Young at Market
From: DD-B 
Reply-to: DYER-BENNET AT KL2137
DTN: 231-4076
LOC/MS: MRO1-2/L14
Subject: SF Lovers submission

( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest   V6 #44 )

(Dolata at SUMEX-AIM) Medics 'last gasp' efforts:  given the
postulated state of almost complete ignorance, how can you be sure
that the alien is really about to die?  If you don't know that the
alien is about to die, how can you justify taking drastic actions with
no information to guide them?  And, of course, how can you justify
ignoring the reactions of the person (even if only a kid) who knows
most about the alien?

( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest   V6 #45 )

(Gene Spafford ) Interesting thoughts on our
heroes.  For some gentler SF, I'd recommend looking into Piers
Anthony's Xanth series (4 books currently?).  There's a lot of
conflict, but the main character seems to me to strive consistently to
minimize it.

------------------------------

Date:     16 Sep 82 11:28:04-EDT (Thu)
From:     David Axler 
To:       sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
Subject:  Science Fiction & Opera

     Bradbury's planned "Moby Dick in Space" (c.f. SFL 6:48) won't be the first
sf opera (even if one ignores all the fantasy elements found in many operatic
plots).  Earlier this century, "Aniara" was written by (*I think*) Harry
Martinsson, a Swedish author & composer.  I don't recall whether the book came
before or after the opera, but the story is about the trials and tribulations
of the denizens of a "generation starship."  I believe that both book and
recordings are still in print.  The opera itself is quite interesting, as it's
laden with "spacy" instruments like theremins and ondes martinot.  I don't
believe it's been performed in the States in quite some time -- an interesting
project for some truly enterprising Con Committee!

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1982 1124-PDT
Sender: BILLW at SRI-KL
Subject: The Sheep Look Up
From:  William "Chops" Westfield 
To: SFL at SRI-KL(Attn: sf-lovers)
Cc: oster at WHARTON-10
Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]11-Oct-82 11:24:06.BILLW>

Although the author, style, and tone of "The Sheep Look Up" are all
quite similar to "Stand on Zanzibar", it is in no way a sequel!
None of the characters are common, and the basic assumptions
(Pollution vs Over-population) are different.

WW

------------------------------

Date: 19 Sep 1982 1712-EDT
From: Alyson L. Abramowitz 
To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL
Subject: Contributions From ENet SF-LOVERS

From:	MERLIN::WAJENBERG      15-SEP-1982 15:37  
To:	KIRK::SF_LOVERS
Subj:	Declining quality of DUNE books

Someone recentlyasked why the first DUNE book was so much better than
the others. The person who said it was because Campbell was a hidden
co-author has a great deal of truth on its side. But there is another
reason. DUNE (the first book) holds rigidly to the Heroic Cycle as
described by Lord Raglan, a British anthropologist.

Ragaln lays out 22 events which an ideal hero goes through. No real
hero of myth or legend scores all 22, but many get the vast majority.
Paul Muad'Dib gets about 20 of the 22. Unfortunately, he gets almost
all of them in the first book. Only two or three are left for DUNE
MESSIAH, and CHILDREN OF DUNE and GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE are beyond the
cycle completely.

I don't claim the cycle is magical, but it HAS managed to attract
a good deal of human interest, in all cultures, for as long as we
have record. Anyway, it gave Herbert a ready-made plot. Once that
plot gave out, so did the DUNE series.

The things which happen to Paul Muad'Dib that occur in Raglan's
heroic cycle are (as best memory serves):

1) The circumstances of his conception are unusual. (His mother
conceived him male, when she could have conceived him female, and
was so ordered.)

2) He was threatened in childhood. (Rather late childhood, but there
it is.)

3) The person threatening was a relative of his mother's.

4) He eluded the threat and lived in a far land for a long time.

5) We hear little of the time he lived in the far land.

6) When he came of age (learned to ride sandworms), he arose to claim
his heritage.

7) He defeated a monster/tyrant (a Raglan hero can do either; Paul did
both if you allow worm-riding to count).

8) He married the daughter of his predecessor (Princess Irulan).

9) He ruled peacefully for a while.

10) He passed laws.

11) He lost the favor the gods/the people. (People in Paul's case.)

12) He was dirven from the community. (Self-exile, but in accordance
with old Fremen custom.)

13) He met a mysterious death.

I may have forgotten some. If anyone is interested, I can relate the
entire 22-point cycle, to the interested party alone, or to SFL generally.

------------------------------

Date:    19-Sep-82 7:52PM-EDT (Sun)
From:    Nathaniel Mishkin 
Subject: Revenge of the Jedi -- Trailer
To:      SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL

I heard that the upcoming re-release of SW-TESB will contain an even
longer trailer (~15mins) for SW-ROTJ.  Apparently the SW people are 
not bothering to advertise either of the trailers (for SW-ANH or 
SW-TESB) figuring that its main attraction is going to be to SW
freaks and they're gonna find out about it anyway.

		-- Nat

------------------------------

Date: 20 Sep 1982 0929-MDT
From: Dudley Irish 
Subject: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL


Does anyone know where this title comes from originally.  I have been
told that it was used by Joni Mitchel(sp?) in a song and, of course,
we all know it as the title to a book by Heinlien, but does it have a
more noble past (if one could) that I don't know about?

For the curious, it came up in a conversation at a party.

					Dudley Irish
					IRISH@UTAH-20

------------------------------

Date:     20 Sep 82 17:11:03-EDT (Mon)
From:     David Axler 
To:       sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
Subject:  Sequel Failure

     An entry in a recent issue of SFL tried to answer M. Melkar's question
as to why sequels are often less good than the initial books.  Without 
knocking the answer propounded, I'd suggest that a major reason is that which
Norman Spinrad has discussed at length in his column "Stayin' Alive," which
appears in LOCUS (and, I've heard, will soon be turned into a book).  Spinrad's
thesis, essentially, is that the current state of the sf publishing industry
(which differs in some ways from the "normal" publ. ind.) is pushing authors
into writing novels which have the potential for extension via sequels, and
that the necessity of creating such sequelae when one is (a) sick of the
characters and/or (b) has said all one wanted to say with them is a problem
that needs curing.  He feels that all segments of the sf world (authors,
readers, fans, publishers, agents, other media, &c.) are to blame for this,
though in differing degrees; the basic agent of the trouble, though, is the
need for the author to pay his or her bills.
     I know that some SFL readers are involved in the creation of sf in its
many forms, and would be interested in hearing their opinions on Spinrad's 
theory (which I've severely compressed, though hopefully w/o misstatement).

------------------------------

Date: Monday, 11 October 1982  18:49-EDT
Sender: AGRE at MIT-OZ
From: AGRE at MIT-MC
To:   sf-lovers at MIT-OZ

I have a question for the world of sf-lovers.  What are the ten science
fiction books that everybody who wants to understand artificial intelligence
should read?  Reply to me since I'm not an sf-lovers subscriber.  Answers
will go in the file OZ:SF.BOOKS for the curious.      - phiL

------------------------------

Date: 19 Sep 82 1:14-PDT
From: mclure at SRI-UNIX
To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl
Subject: sf column

n520  2046  18 Sep 82
BC-SCIFI-09-19
    SCIENCE FICTION
    By Roland J. Green
    (c) 1982 Chicago Sun-Times (Field News Service)
    Marion Zimmer Bradley's ''Hawkmistress!'' (DAWNew American Library,
$2.95 paperback) is her 16th novel set on the planet Darkover.
    Darkover, circled by four moons, rotates about a distant red sun.
Settled by the survivors of a lost starship, it remained isolated for
more than 2,000 years before the expanding Terran Empire rediscovered
it. During that time the settlers adapted to their new homeworld's
harshly chill climate and lack of metals. Sexual equality gave way to
patriarchy, democracy to feudalism or monarchy, and science to the
exploration of complex paranormal powers known as laran. Yet the
Darkovans survived, developed their own unique culture, interbred
with the alien chieri, and even survived the impact of contact with
the Terrans.
    This description sounds like the ingredients for good
straightforward space adventure with overtones of fantasy; indeed
''Darkover'' can be appreciated at that level. The description
doesn't make clear another undeniable truth: ''Darkover'' is an
authentic SF saga. For sheer skill in storytelling and wordbuilding,
for wit, for strikingly intelligent development of the concept of
telepathy, above all for continous concern for people, Bradley has
put some more famous SF sagas in shade.
    ''Hawkmistress'' begins when 15-year-old Romilly MacAran is faces
with an arranged marriage to a nobleman she finds utterly repulsive.
Not only that, he will prevent her from using her rare form of laran,
an ability to communicate with hawks and horses. Disguising herself
as a boy, she flees her father's estate and promptly discovers that
her new freedom is far from complete. She has exchanged old
constraints for new ones. In the end, she becomes involved in a
deadly civil war for the throne of the local kingdom, and finds love
(or at least affection), some reconcilation with her family, and as
much freedom as she now realizes she can reasonably expect.
    ''Hawkmistress'' lays out with exceptional clarity (although without
undue preaching) the themes of choice and price, central to Bradley's
work. The wise know that life is a series of choices, each with its
price. You can't have everything. The foolish try to avoid the
choices. The good are willing to pay the price of their choices
themselves, the evil or lazy (who in Bradley's books seem to be
roughly the same) try to fob off the price of their choices onto
others.
    Bradley doubtless owes a good part of her popularity to her eloquent
concern with the way men have of making women do the paying. Her
sympathies, however, are too broad and her sense of the integrity of
a story too well developed to justify pinning a ''feminist'' label on
her.
    Like many other SF authors, Bradley greatly benefited from the
collapse of the traditional 60,000-word limit for SF novels in the
early '70s. Beginning with ''Heritage of Hastur'' (DAW, 1975),
Bradley has moved from strength to strength. The Planet of the Bloody
Sun has proven more than slightly addictive to many readers, who
start off with one and shortly find themselves haunting the
bookstores for more. This, of course, is the reward every saga
creator dreams of; seldom has it gone to a worthier author.
    Acquiring all the books of a 16-volume sage is a daunting task.
Keeping up with short science fiction and fantasy is becoming every
bit as painful, with magazines constantly changing editors, owners,
and distributors, and sometimes winking out of existence between one
issue and the next.
    Three solid anthologies offer the SF reader short of time or money
to chase down all the magazines a good notion where short science
fiction is going, as well as a deal of fine reading. They are Terry
Carr's ''Universe 12'' (Doubleday, $10.95), ''Best Science Fiction of
the Year No. 12'' (TimescapePocket Books, $2.95 paperback) and Donald
A. Wollheim's ''The 1982 Annual World's Best SF'' (DAWNew American
Library, $2.95 paperback). ''Universe'' is an anthology of original
and slightly experimental fiction; the two paperbacks hold
well-chosen reprints, and can be particularly recommended for SF
teachers.
    END
    
nyt-09-18-82 2336edt
**********



End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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