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Legend of Wukong... [message #129692] Sun, 04 January 2009 12:53 Go to next message
BelPowerslave is currently offline  BelPowerslave
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Registered: November 2006
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http://www.legendofwukong.com/

Anyone notice that this is now available? I completely missed it,
somehow. $48 is kind of steep, so I may or may not wait to put it on a
credit card. Didn't Beggar Prince drop in price at one point, or did I
imagine that? I know it's still $48, but I thought they offered a sale
on it at one point, before bringing it back to their MSRP.

http://www.piersolar.com/

Pier Solar is the next one coming up. Pretty interested in it as it has
that dual cart/CD format, plus it's a completely new game(not a port).

Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: www.whipassgaming.com

"It's a good thing these guys aren't lumberjacks!"
"Yeah, the only thing safe in the forest would be the trees!"
- Mike and Don in TMNT
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129693 is a reply to message #129692] Sun, 04 January 2009 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ted is currently offline  Ted
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Registered: March 2008
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BelPowerslave wrote:
> http://www.legendofwukong.com/
>
> Anyone notice that this is now available? I completely missed it,
> somehow. $48 is kind of steep, so I may or may not wait to put it on a
> credit card. Didn't Beggar Prince drop in price at one point, or did I
> imagine that? I know it's still $48, but I thought they offered a sale
> on it at one point, before bringing it back to their MSRP.


It's $40 plus shipping, on a game that had to be burned to a circuit
board for a system that hasn't been made outside of Brazil for a decade
that is going to have sales of probably less than the active Netlink
community. What were you hoping for?
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129694 is a reply to message #129693] Sun, 04 January 2009 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BelPowerslave is currently offline  BelPowerslave
Messages: 264
Registered: November 2006
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Senior Member
> It's $40 plus shipping, on a game that had to be burned to a circuit
> board for a system that hasn't been made outside of Brazil for a decade
> that is going to have sales of probably less than the active Netlink
> community. What were you hoping for?

Pier Solar, a *completely new* game is only $35...even with the CD
soundtrack. This is why I sort of balk at a $48 translation job.

Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/

"We'll meet again...in Hell"
- Cobra, The Space Adventure
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129695 is a reply to message #129694] Sun, 04 January 2009 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BelPowerslave is currently offline  BelPowerslave
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> Pier Solar, a *completely new* game is only $35...even with the CD
> soundtrack. This is why I sort of balk at a $48 translation job.

Another reason:

"The third run has also received some critics for fixing those issues of
the first two runs; some customers were upset to have received an
"inferior" version although they, as early buyers, helped making further
production runs possible to begin with. Also some say that the third
production run, being as big as the first and second runs combined, was
made to get collectors to buy Beggar Prince again even though they
already own one of the earlier versions. This rumor is based on both the
number of copies produced for the third production run and by the fact
that customers of the old version have no other way of getting at least
the new cover than to order a second copy of Beggar Prince."

See, I have the original version of Beggar Prince, with the horrible
artwork and all the glitches that don't allow me to play it on my
Genesis/32X/Sega CD combo. As far as I know, the SF Team will not
exchange these out, so I'm just sort of fucked.

"But for the first two runs, due to the manner in which the game's save
function is programmed, it is impossible to save on systems connected to
the 32X or hybrid CD systems such as the Multi-Mega/CDX and Wondermega.
Playing the game with a Sega Mega-CD/Sega CD attached to the Mega
Drive/Genesis works with the second CD model. On a European Multi-Mega,
the game resets itself after the introduction scenes, making it unplayable."

Now they want another $48 for a game that may or may not have these same
issues...of which, they'll do another run and fix them, and you'll have
to buy another copy. It just reek of amateurism....of which they'd like
money for.

Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/

"Now lets rob the bank, give the money to the poor, then rob the poor
and shoot the money!"
- Billy The Kid, The Simpsons
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129696 is a reply to message #129694] Sun, 04 January 2009 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kendrick Kerwin Chua is currently offline  Kendrick Kerwin Chua
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Registered: January 2007
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Member
In article <gjqun7$n9n$1@news.motzarella.org>,
BelPowerslave <bel@whipassgaming.com> wrote:
>> It's $40 plus shipping, on a game that had to be burned to a circuit
>> board for a system that hasn't been made outside of Brazil for a decade
>> that is going to have sales of probably less than the active Netlink
>> community. What were you hoping for?
>
> Pier Solar, a *completely new* game is only $35...even with the CD
> soundtrack. This is why I sort of balk at a $48 translation job.

On one hand, I don't mind this sort of thing even if it turns out to be
just a vanity project. Anybody can broadcast a TV show thanks to Youtube,
and anybody can record an album thanks to Garage Band. Why can't somebody
with a PROM burner and a label printer release a Genesis game? And a
licensed one, to boot.

On the other hand, I question whether or not the intent behind this
release is worthwhile. If you're trying to reach a large gaming audience
and turn a minor profit, Xbox Live Arcade or the Wii Virtual Console has a
built-in marketing mechanism and no hardware or media costs. If you're
trying to preserve a valuable bit of gaming history, why not something
more prominent or more influential? "Because we can" doesn't seem like a
good enough reason to do this, as much as I enjoy seeing it happen.

-KKC, who found his old Tandy Model 100 laptop. Ah, memories.
--
-- "Enjoy | kendrick @ |
your fishing!" | io . com | http://www.io.com/~kkc
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129722 is a reply to message #129696] Mon, 05 January 2009 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BelPowerslave is currently offline  BelPowerslave
Messages: 264
Registered: November 2006
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Senior Member
> On one hand, I don't mind this sort of thing even if it turns out to be
> just a vanity project. Anybody can broadcast a TV show thanks to Youtube,
> and anybody can record an album thanks to Garage Band. Why can't somebody
> with a PROM burner and a label printer release a Genesis game? And a
> licensed one, to boot.
>
> On the other hand, I question whether or not the intent behind this
> release is worthwhile. If you're trying to reach a large gaming audience
> and turn a minor profit, Xbox Live Arcade or the Wii Virtual Console has a
> built-in marketing mechanism and no hardware or media costs. If you're
> trying to preserve a valuable bit of gaming history, why not something
> more prominent or more influential? "Because we can" doesn't seem like a
> good enough reason to do this, as much as I enjoy seeing it happen.

I'm with you in enjoying seeing the stuff still coming out, but I just
feel really burned on the whole Beggar Prince 3rd run issue. I mean, now
I have to sell my 1st run copy at a loss, just to try to turn around and
buy the FINISHED version of the game, all because they couldn't be
bothered to fix the save bug in the first place(I'm not disconnecting my
32X or SCD just to play the game). With the way they handle things,
you'd almost assume they'd be all too willing to take 1st run copies in
exchange for the 3rd run, then sell them on the site/ebay as "ULTRA RARE
1ST RUN PRINT OF BEGGAR PRINCE! L@@K!!!!!!!"....but no.

I also understand that Pier Solar has no real licensing cost, and as
it's all homebrew it was probably pretty cheap to produce as most people
just wanted to contribute with no real promises of compensation...but
still, it just makes the SF Team look bad when an original game, WITH A
CD SOUNDTRACK(something never before done in Genesis history), is
outpricing them by a good $10(Pier Solar is $35 shipped, BP/LoW is $48).

Honestly, once I get my copy of BP sold I'll buy the 3rd edition...but
I'll probably wait a few months, if not more, to make sure the SF Team
doesn't pull another "3rd run" stunt...

As for Pier Solar: The days it's available, I'm buying.

Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/

"Cat's out of the bag on that one isn't it? Who puts cats in bags
anyway? Cats hate bags."
- Sheogorath, Oblivion: The Shivering Isles
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129723 is a reply to message #129722] Mon, 05 January 2009 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kendrick Kerwin Chua is currently offline  Kendrick Kerwin Chua
Messages: 41
Registered: January 2007
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Member
In article <gjtv86$ink$1@news.motzarella.org>,
BelPowerslave <bel@whipassgaming.com> wrote:
>
> I'm with you in enjoying seeing the stuff still coming out, but I just
> feel really burned on the whole Beggar Prince 3rd run issue. I mean, now
> I have to sell my 1st run copy at a loss, just to try to turn around and
> buy the FINISHED version of the game, all because they couldn't be
> bothered to fix the save bug in the first place(I'm not disconnecting my
> 32X or SCD just to play the game). With the way they handle things,
> you'd almost assume they'd be all too willing to take 1st run copies in
> exchange for the 3rd run, then sell them on the site/ebay as "ULTRA RARE
> 1ST RUN PRINT OF BEGGAR PRINCE! L@@K!!!!!!!"....but no.

On this one point, I'm inclined to be a bit more forgiving. A lot of
first run games from the big development houses were plenty buggy,
though not to the same degree. I'm thinking of stuff like the network
holes in PSO on the Gamecube, or the buffer overrun in Mechassault. Even
little aesthetic things like the missing printing on the CD hub for the
first print of Lunar happen for the same reason. Of course, the Beggar
Prince translators should have done a recall and replaced what was
essentially defective merchandise.

-KKC, trying out a local trn install.
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129725 is a reply to message #129722] Sun, 11 January 2009 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
8bitwizard is currently offline  8bitwizard
Messages: 12
Registered: December 2006
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Junior Member
In article <gjtv86$ink$1@news.motzarella.org>,
BelPowerslave <bel@whipassgaming.com> wrote:

> I'm with you in enjoying seeing the stuff still coming out, but I just
> feel really burned on the whole Beggar Prince 3rd run issue. I mean, now
> I have to sell my 1st run copy at a loss, just to try to turn around and
> buy the FINISHED version of the game, all because they couldn't be
> bothered to fix the save bug in the first place(I'm not disconnecting my
> 32X or SCD just to play the game). With the way they handle things,
> you'd almost assume they'd be all too willing to take 1st run copies in
> exchange for the 3rd run, then sell them on the site/ebay as "ULTRA RARE
> 1ST RUN PRINT OF BEGGAR PRINCE! L@@K!!!!!!!"....but no.

I think the problem was that it wasn't just a software bug. It was an
address conflict with the CD hardware. They didn't just have to fix the
game, they also had to fix the address decoding and the bank switching
hardware for the game save memory.

I just checked my photos of the internals, and I see a flash chip, a 32K
byte RAM chip, and a Xilinx chip. There's also a programming header on
the board, presumably for the Xilinx. So it's very possible that they
could have been able to re-program the boards and send them back, if the
Xilinx had access to enough of the right signals.

If, however, they had to change the board layout for the 3rd run, then
they would basically have to throw away all the old boards and replace
them with new ones. I would be surprised if the hardware cost of the
assembled board was less than ten dollars, and that would get real
expensive real fast.
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129726 is a reply to message #129723] Sat, 17 January 2009 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BelPowerslave is currently offline  BelPowerslave
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Registered: November 2006
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Senior Member
> On this one point, I'm inclined to be a bit more forgiving. A lot of
> first run games from the big development houses were plenty buggy,
> though not to the same degree. I'm thinking of stuff like the network
> holes in PSO on the Gamecube, or the buffer overrun in Mechassault.

Agreed, but at least with the two you've mentioned, they could have
been/were(?) patched. This is why I've never understood the criticism
that some people attach to patching console games...to me, it's a very,
very good thing. Finally, if there are issues with a console title, it
can actually be fixed and even improved(as was the case with the Unreal
Championship patch, for Xbox).

> Even
> little aesthetic things like the missing printing on the CD hub for the
> first print of Lunar happen for the same reason.

Stuff like that I can forgive. Hell, I've even got one of those copies
of Outlaw Volleyball that has that odd discoloration on data-side of the
disc...

> Of course, the Beggar
> Prince translators should have done a recall and replaced what was
> essentially defective merchandise.

A recall would have solved everything, imo. It would have made the
customer happy, and put strength behind the SuperFighter Team's
commitment to the retro gaming community. As it stands now, I *know* I'm
not the only one who is taking a "wait and see" approach with their
second title... :(

Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/

"If the Xbox console falls and hits someone, especially a small
child, it could cause serious injury."
- The Xbox user manual
Re: Legend of Wukong... [message #129727 is a reply to message #129725] Sat, 17 January 2009 01:36 Go to previous message
BelPowerslave is currently offline  BelPowerslave
Messages: 264
Registered: November 2006
Karma: 0
Senior Member
> I think the problem was that it wasn't just a software bug. It was an
> address conflict with the CD hardware. They didn't just have to fix the
> game, they also had to fix the address decoding and the bank switching
> hardware for the game save memory.
>
> I just checked my photos of the internals, and I see a flash chip, a 32K
> byte RAM chip, and a Xilinx chip. There's also a programming header on
> the board, presumably for the Xilinx. So it's very possible that they
> could have been able to re-program the boards and send them back, if the
> Xilinx had access to enough of the right signals.
>
> If, however, they had to change the board layout for the 3rd run, then
> they would basically have to throw away all the old boards and replace
> them with new ones. I would be surprised if the hardware cost of the
> assembled board was less than ten dollars, and that would get real
> expensive real fast.

Well, it's definitely understandable that they would have some concerns
regarding the cost of the replacements but I still find it disgusting
that they couldn't be bothered to do it. Hell, even offering the
exchange for a small amount of money(say, $10) would have been nice.

What makes them come off like such utter asses is that they wouldn't
even let owners of the first or second editions exchange out the
insert...even that was too much time and effort for them.

I've lost a lot of respect for the Super Fighter Team over the past few
years, but most of it has come in just these past few months. Looks like
even Wikipedia is tired of their BS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Fighter_Team

"15:22, 7 October 2008 SoWhy deleted "Super Fighter Team" ‎ (G11:
Blatant advertising: also A7 (group))"

Gotta love it.

Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/

"...a sea-monkey has my money..."
- Dory, Finding Nemo
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