| What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #124395] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 18:33  |
Don Wakefield
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Registered: June 2013
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OK, so I have finally accepted that my eMac has outlived it's usefulness and needs to be retired. My question is what to replace it with?
Cost is a big consideration, so I am probably limited to a core 2 duo iMac or Mac Mini. Unfortunately my entire Adobe collection of software will still be expecting a PPC to drive it, so I understand I will need an Intel machine which has access to Rosetta (even if that access is via a virtual instance of a "previous OS" somewhere on the hard drive.) Additionally, many of my peripherals are FireWire 400 (which I understand could also present some difficulties.)
What machines and which era of OS Cat, will provide me as smooth and cost effective as possible transition into the more modern OS world, while still allowing the vintage applications to limp along for a while until they can be upgraded.
Don Wakefield
DTPetc! (DeskTop Productions et cetera!)
Ballwin, Missouri, USA
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #124491 is a reply to message #124395] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 22:01  |
Valter Prahlad
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Registered: September 2012
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> OK, so I have finally accepted that my eMac has outlived it's usefulness and
> needs to be retired. My question is what to replace it with?
Knowing your budget would help to target our suggestions.
> Cost is a big consideration, so I am probably limited to a core 2 duo iMac or
> Mac Mini.
I would advice for an iMac.
Where I live (Italy), used Mac Minis are way too expensive, while I found
lots of valid iMacs at reasonable prices. YMMV.
I got a 2009 3 GHz 24" iMac. And I love every bit of it. :-)
The screen is gorgeous, the design is sleek, the noise is almost
non-existent, the power is abundant (Adobe CS3 and 3D games go smoothly),
and power consumption is surprisingly low.
If you already have a good screen, the Mini could be an option, but since
you have an eMac, the iMac seems the best way to go.
> Unfortunately my entire Adobe collection of software will still be
> expecting a PPC to drive it, so I understand I will need an Intel machine
> which has access to Rosetta
On my iMac I installed 10.6 Snow Leopard, because:
- I have PPC software too (and it runs beautifully here)
- I dislike latest, iOS-like OSX versions and their interface.
I never feel the lacking of a newer OS.
> Additionally, many of my peripherals are FireWire 400
Up until Mid-2011 models, any iMac had at least 1 Firewire port.
Even if it's 800, you just need an 800-400 cable to hook up your
peripherals.
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #124492 is a reply to message #124395] |
Sat, 05 October 2013 22:02 |
Doug McNutt
Messages: 38
Registered: September 2012
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At 15:33 -0700 10/5/13, Don Wakefield wrote:
> OK, so I have finally accepted that my eMac has outlived it's usefulness and needs to be retired. My question is what to replace it with?
>
> Cost is a big consideration, so I am probably limited to a core 2 duo iMac or Mac Mini. Unfortunately my entire Adobe collection of software will still be expecting a PPC to drive it, so I understand I will need an Intel machine which has access to Rosetta (even if that access is via a virtual instance of a "previous OS" somewhere on the hard drive.) Additionally, many of my peripherals are FireWire 400 (which I understand could also present some difficulties.)
>
> What machines and which era of OS Cat, will provide me as smooth and cost effective as possible transition into the more modern OS world, while still allowing the vintage applications to limp along for a while until they can be upgraded.
My personal solution has been to continue with OS 10.3.9 on my G4. At that level I can easily talk to my SE/30 server running OS 7.5 and this 8500 running OS 9.1. But my rather expensive CAD software continues to work on the G4. Safari fails miserably and Firefox won't run a current version.
For new stuff I use a cheap Intel box from HP and run ubuntu Linux. It talks to everything, including the internet, just fine. Replacement software is cheap indeed -- $0.0. It's quite OK to write your own code there and, with csh it's very much like MPW of old. There's no such thing as a sandbox.
The lady of the house buys a new Mac or iPad once a year. I can no longer talk to her computer or even to the Apple cloud which just shields out the sunlight. Well, I probably could with an account in my name but then I'd have to train my fingers to navigate a touch pad.
You could find an Apple iPhone and ask Siri.
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1801 - Joseph Marie Jacquard uses punch cards to instruct a loom to weave "hello, world" into a tapestry.
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125176 is a reply to message #124395] |
Sun, 06 October 2013 12:06 |
Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
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On Oct 5, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Don Wakefield <dtpetc@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, so I have finally accepted that my eMac has outlived it's usefulness and needs to be retired. My question is what to replace it with?
>
> Cost is a big consideration, so I am probably limited to a core 2 duo iMac or Mac Mini. Unfortunately my entire Adobe collection of software will still be expecting a PPC to drive it, so I understand I will need an Intel machine which has access to Rosetta (even if that access is via a virtual instance of a "previous OS" somewhere on the hard drive.) Additionally, many of my peripherals are FireWire 400 (which I understand could also present some difficulties.)
>
Well as always it really depends on your budget.
Any iMac up to mid 2011 or so will work, even i5 or i7 models. The only requirement is that you be able to run 10.6, for Rosetta. Standard advice is always buy as much computer as you can possibly afford, because that gives you the greatest future-proofing. Firewire 400 isn't an issue, since all you need to connect a FW400 device to a FW800 port is an appropriate cable. Which is less than 5$ at Monoprice < http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&c p_id=10301&cs_id=1030105&p_id=331&seq=1&form at=2>
Perusing eBay I'm finding lots of Mac minis of the era at $350-$500. iMacs look to be running $600-$800, for 20" ones.
Keep an eye on the LEM swaplist, these sorts of systems pop up regularly.
You DEFINITELY want to avoid a Core Duo model of any sort. those are particularly crippled (Apple only ever made a few models of those, all first gen Intel Macs.)
Heck, I'd even lok at Mac Pros, here's a good candidate for $400 : < http://www.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-A1186-MAC-PRO-DESKTOP-MA970LL- A-2008-4G-MEMORY-XEON-2-8GHZ-QUAD-CORE-320G-/171142382438?pt =Apple_Desktops&hash=item27d8e18366>
Shipping will be a pain, because these suckers are heavy, but Apple has left behind a lot of Mac Pro models from current updates, so you can grab 'em pretty cheap, relatively speaking.
--
Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are." B. Banzai, PhD
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125866 is a reply to message #124395] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 09:00 |
Bob Johnson
Messages: 2
Registered: March 2013
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I'm in the same boat as the OP, still using an eMac as my main
computer, though I do have an intel macbook available for when I
desperately need it. I've been looking at used Mac Pros, as I am a bit
tired of the non-upgradeability and repairability of the all-in-one
designs. Mac Pros are extremely rare on the local craigslist, and even
the 1.1 versions generally want close to 1000 bucks.
Is a 1.1 Mac Pro a viable choice, or is it too limiting? I'd welcome
any advice on what to look for in a Mac Pro, processors, video options,
etc, as I have no experience with this class of machine.
And is it better to buy from one of the used Mac dealers, or is
craigslist or ebay the way to go?
Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
---
On Monday, October 7, 2013, at 06:49 AM, g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
wrote:
>
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
>
> Heck, I'd even look at Mac Pros, here's a good candidate for $400 :
> < http://www.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-A1186-MAC-PRO-DESKTOP-MA970LL- A-2008-
> 4G-MEMORY-XEON-2-8GHZ-QUAD-CORE-320G-/
> 171142382438?pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item27d8e18366>
>
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125867 is a reply to message #125866] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 09:18 |
Dale Hoffman
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2013
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Bob,
The MacPro 1,1 is stuck at OS 10.6.8.
I'd try for something with more upgrade future.
The new MacPros haven't hit the market place yet and folks might be getting worried about the new design shift to less internal expandability.
Until then, the older MacPros might be at a premium.
Dale
On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Bob Johnson wrote:
> I'm in the same boat as the OP, still using an eMac as my main computer, though I do have an intel macbook available for when I desperately need it. I've been looking at used Mac Pros, as I am a bit tired of the non-upgradeability and repairability of the all-in-one designs. Mac Pros are extremely rare on the local craigslist, and even the 1.1 versions generally want close to 1000 bucks.
>
> Is a 1.1 Mac Pro a viable choice, or is it too limiting? I'd welcome any advice on what to look for in a Mac Pro, processors, video options, etc, as I have no experience with this class of machine.
>
> And is it better to buy from one of the used Mac dealers, or is craigslist or ebay the way to go?
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
> ---
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| RE: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125868 is a reply to message #125867] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 09:24 |
Swigart, Kurt A [NTK]
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Registered: October 2013
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Actually the MacPro 1,1 is stuck at 10.7.5 at least mine is, but it sounds like you want something that can run Snow Leopard since you have some PPC programs
Kurt A. Swigart
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
-----Original Message-----
From: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:g3-5-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale Hoffman
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:18 AM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What Mac to buy - and from where?
Bob,
The MacPro 1,1 is stuck at OS 10.6.8.
I'd try for something with more upgrade future.
The new MacPros haven't hit the market place yet and folks might be getting worried about the new design shift to less internal expandability.
Until then, the older MacPros might be at a premium.
Dale
On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Bob Johnson wrote:
> I'm in the same boat as the OP, still using an eMac as my main computer, though I do have an intel macbook available for when I desperately need it. I've been looking at used Mac Pros, as I am a bit tired of the non-upgradeability and repairability of the all-in-one designs. Mac Pros are extremely rare on the local craigslist, and even the 1.1 versions generally want close to 1000 bucks.
>
> Is a 1.1 Mac Pro a viable choice, or is it too limiting? I'd welcome any advice on what to look for in a Mac Pro, processors, video options, etc, as I have no experience with this class of machine.
>
> And is it better to buy from one of the used Mac dealers, or is craigslist or ebay the way to go?
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
> ---
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125869 is a reply to message #125867] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 09:29 |
Illirik Smirnov
Messages: 7
Registered: September 2012
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1,1s can run Lion; mine does. TBH, a 1,1 is probably the best
price/performance deal. Mine came with dual-dual Xeons at 2.66, which gives
about 6k Geekbench with a platter hard drive, and cost $350. I upgraded to
dual-quad Xeons (also at 2.66) which brought me to 10k, and the CPUs were
$50 each.
Illirik Smirnov
Head of Congressional Debate -- Enloe High School Debate Team
Board Member, Enloe Gay/Straight Alliance
Quiz Bowl "A" Team
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Dale Hoffman <dhoff@margnat.com> wrote:
> Bob,
> The MacPro 1,1 is stuck at OS 10.6.8.
> I'd try for something with more upgrade future.
> The new MacPros haven't hit the market place yet and folks might be
> getting worried about the new design shift to less internal expandability.
> Until then, the older MacPros might be at a premium.
> Dale
>
> On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Bob Johnson wrote:
>
>> I'm in the same boat as the OP, still using an eMac as my main computer,
> though I do have an intel macbook available for when I desperately need it.
> I've been looking at used Mac Pros, as I am a bit tired of the
> non-upgradeability and repairability of the all-in-one designs. Mac Pros
> are extremely rare on the local craigslist, and even the 1.1 versions
> generally want close to 1000 bucks.
>>
>> Is a 1.1 Mac Pro a viable choice, or is it too limiting? I'd welcome
> any advice on what to look for in a Mac Pro, processors, video options,
> etc, as I have no experience with this class of machine.
>>
>> And is it better to buy from one of the used Mac dealers, or is
> craigslist or ebay the way to go?
>>
>> Any advice is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bob
>> ---
>
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125955 is a reply to message #124395] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 15:33 |
Kris Tilford
Messages: 133
Registered: August 2012
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On Oct 7, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Dale Hoffman <dhoff@margnat.com> wrote:
> The MacPro 1,1 is stuck at OS 10.6.8.
No, with no tweaks it stops at 10.7.5.
With small tweaks, you're still current.
My Mac Pro 1,1 is running 10.8.5 now,
I intend to install 10.9 later tonight hopefully.
There are two methods of tweaking an unsupported Mac:
1) Using MLPostFactor to install support software & hybrid kernel
See:<http://www.osxhackers.com/index.html>
2) Using Chameleon bootloader to fake boot 64-bit EFI and run clean software & kernel.
See:<http://www.jabbawok.net/?p=47>
You'd likely want a better graphics card for either method. It would also be good to upgrade the firmware to Mac Pro 2,1 and install quad-core CPUs so that your Mac Pro 1,1 is effectively an 8-core Mac Pro 2,1.
The MLPostFactor method is the old way for older iMacs & MacBooks that have no hardware upgrades available.
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125956 is a reply to message #124395] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 15:37 |
Kris Tilford
Messages: 133
Registered: August 2012
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On Oct 7, 2013, at 2:33 PM, Kris Tilford <ktilford1@cox.net> wrote:
> The MLPostFactor method is the old way for older iMacs & MacBooks that have no hardware upgrades available.
Oops! I mean to say "is the ONLY way for older iMacs & MacBooks ".
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125983 is a reply to message #125869] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 17:34 |
ROBERT H. BAUCOM
Messages: 27
Registered: November 2012
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As Bob said about the repairability of the later iMacs … I just looked on the net, at all the two year old iMacs that were being sold for Parts and decided I didn't want any computer, that didn't have a fan. Thats what made me scrape my nickels together and buy a Mac Pro Tower and … I love it … But had to buy Nisus Writer Pro . plus the manual, dictionary and thesaurus … as I think Pages Sucks.
Interesting and astute thoughts by Dale, for the reasons that the prices for Used Pro Towers are going up.
RHB
“It's red hot, mate. I hate to think of this sort of book getting in the wrong hands. As soon as I've finished this, I shall recommend they ban it.” ~ Tony Hancock
On Oct 7, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Illirik Smirnov <illiriks@gmail.com> wrote:
1,1s can run Lion; mine does. TBH, a 1,1 is probably the best price/performance deal. Mine came with dual-dual Xeons at 2.66, which gives about 6k Geekbench with a platter hard drive, and cost $350. I upgraded to dual-quad Xeons (also at 2.66) which brought me to 10k, and the CPUs were $50 each.
Illirik Smirnov
Head of Congressional Debate -- Enloe High School Debate Team
Board Member, Enloe Gay/Straight Alliance
Quiz Bowl "A" Team
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Dale Hoffman <dhoff@margnat.com> wrote:
Bob,
The MacPro 1,1 is stuck at OS 10.6.8.
I'd try for something with more upgrade future.
The new MacPros haven't hit the market place yet and folks might be getting worried about the new design shift to less internal expandability.
Until then, the older MacPros might be at a premium.
Dale
On Oct 7, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Bob Johnson wrote:
> I'm in the same boat as the OP, still using an eMac as my main computer, though I do have an intel macbook available for when I desperately need it. I've been looking at used Mac Pros, as I am a bit tired of the non-upgradeability and repairability of the all-in-one designs. Mac Pros are extremely rare on the local craigslist, and even the 1.1 versions generally want close to 1000 bucks.
>
> Is a 1.1 Mac Pro a viable choice, or is it too limiting? I'd welcome any advice on what to look for in a Mac Pro, processors, video options, etc, as I have no experience with this class of machine.
>
> And is it better to buy from one of the used Mac dealers, or is craigslist or ebay the way to go?
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125984 is a reply to message #125983] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 18:14 |
Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
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On Oct 7, 2013, at 1:03 PM, ROBERT H. BAUCOM <rbtbcm@owc.net> wrote:
> As Bob said about the repairability of the later iMacs … I just looked on the net, at all the two year old iMacs that were being sold for Parts and decided I didn't want any computer, that didn't have a fan.
Uhhh, iMacs have fans. Several of them, in fact. They run at relatively low speeds, to be quiet, but they run quite reliably.
Where are you seeing 'all the two year old iMacs being sold for parts' please? There's one here that suffered an unfortunate 'pushed to it's death off of a desk' incident and would like a screen and some glass.
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #125985 is a reply to message #125983] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 19:00 |
Valter Prahlad
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Il giorno 07/10/13 21.55, "ROBERT H. BAUCOM" ha scritto:
> I just looked on the
> net, at all the two year old iMacs that were being sold for Parts
How many?
You should compare that number to the number of working used iMacs on sale.
Every computer can break, but it's the ratio of breaking vs working that
matters.
(PS: You don't even find broken PCs because they're directly thrown out ;-)
Besides, it depends on WHAT is broken (and which models).
G5 iMacs had many failures due to bad capacitors; later models didn't.
Some Intel iMacs with high-end graphic cards had those cards failing.
Apart from the above, I never heard about iMacs being fragile.
Actually, I got an used 2009 24" iMac months ago, and it's going strong.
> and decided I didn't want any computer, that didn't have a fan.
Try to get better informed.
iMac have several fans, and you can fine-tune their speed to suit your taste
and usage.
Since I was a little worried that my 24" iMac could overheat, I installed
smcFanControl and now I can keep my iMac's innards at the temps I want.
> Thats what made me scrape
> my nickels together and buy a Mac Pro Tower
Mac Pros are fine machines, but they are overkill for many users.
There's no "one computer fits all". :-)
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #126039 is a reply to message #124395] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 23:29 |
Geke
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I don't understand all the advice given in here. The simplest solution I
see to keep the old software happy would be to get a PowerMac or iMac G5.
It doesn't have to be one of the latest even, because all G5 are faster
than the eMac, and the older models are cheaper, of course.
That will have to do until he can buy another, newer model (anything he can
afford) and upgrade the software. That could go in two steps: first the
hardware, sometime later the upgrade. No harm using one computer for Adobe
and another one in parallel for the rest.
(Don: The newest OS supported on PowerMacs is 10.5.8 and that would
probably be the recommended one. But 10.4.11 is good too and runs slightly
faster. It must be my stupid day, but someone posted that 10.6 runs on PPC,
which I can't understand either.)
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #126040 is a reply to message #126039] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 23:38 |
peterhaas
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> The newest OS supported on PowerMacs is 10.5.8 and that would
> probably be the recommended one. But 10.4.11 is good too and runs slightly
> faster. It must be my stupid day, but someone posted that 10.6 runs on
> PPC, which I can't understand either.
My MacMini server is really a 1.25 GHz G4 with a replacement optical drive
carrier and adapter which houses a second hard drive which is for data,
only.
Mine is setup to run 10.4.11 non-server when in non-server mode and 10.5.8
Server when in server mode.
I keep the machine handy for the very reasons mentioned by the O.P ... the
need to retain "paid up" Adobe, Fontographer and other software licenses,
which would cost an arm and a leg to update to an Intel Mac, or ... horror
of horrors ... Windoze.
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #126041 is a reply to message #124395] |
Mon, 07 October 2013 23:43 |
Kris Tilford
Messages: 133
Registered: August 2012
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On Oct 7, 2013, at 10:38 PM, peterhaas@cruzio.com wrote:
> My MacMini server is really a 1.25 GHz G4
A tiny bit of solder and it overclocks to 1.5 GHz.
My 1.42 GHz Mini runs smooth at 1.58 GHz.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSSsUvmky1A>
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #126289 is a reply to message #126040] |
Tue, 08 October 2013 13:57 |
Geke
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Thanks for the confirmation, PH! I didn't include the G4 Mac Mini in my
recommendation, as I think it would be a step back from an eMac; otherwise,
that would probably be the cheapest solution.
One thing I'm not clear about is: which Adobe software has this problem? I
have been using CS3 on a PowerMac (so PPC G4) and have moved it recently to
an Intel MacMini with no problem at all.
Op dinsdag 8 oktober 2013 03:38:19 UTC schreef PH:
>
>
>> The newest OS supported on PowerMacs is 10.5.8 and that would
>> probably be the recommended one. But 10.4.11 is good too and runs
> slightly
>> faster. It must be my stupid day, but someone posted that 10.6 runs on
>> PPC, which I can't understand either.
>
> My MacMini server is really a 1.25 GHz G4 with a replacement optical drive
> carrier and adapter which houses a second hard drive which is for data,
> only.
>
> Mine is setup to run 10.4.11 non-server when in non-server mode and 10.5.8
> Server when in server mode.
>
> I keep the machine handy for the very reasons mentioned by the O.P ... the
> need to retain "paid up" Adobe, Fontographer and other software licenses,
> which would cost an arm and a leg to update to an Intel Mac, or ... horror
> of horrors ... Windoze.
>
>
>
>
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #126464 is a reply to message #126289] |
Wed, 09 October 2013 01:52 |
Valter Prahlad
Messages: 87
Registered: September 2012
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Il giorno 08/10/13 19.57, "Geke" ha scritto:
> One thing I'm not clear about is: which Adobe software has this problem? I
> have been using CS3 on a PowerMac (so PPC G4) and have moved it recently to
> an Intel MacMini with no problem at all.
Adobe CS3 is Universal: it means it contains both PPC and Intel code, and so
it can run natively on both kind of CPUs.
OTOH, Adobe dropped the PPC support in CS4 (AFAIK), thus CS4 (and later) is
Intel-only.
I think CS2 and before were PPC-only (but I'm not sure), thus they run
natively on PPC Macs, and can run on Intel Macs with Rosetta (available only
up to OSX 10.6).
HTH.
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| Re: What Mac to buy - and from where? [message #126755 is a reply to message #126464] |
Wed, 09 October 2013 19:28 |
Geke
Messages: 28
Registered: August 2012
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Right, Valter, now you mention it: there was this news half a year ago that
Adobe had stopped using product identification for CS2, which in practice
means that one can download and use it for free, but the draw-back was that
it only ran on PPC. These Adobe guys aren't crazy, you know...
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