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SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #18 [message #5231] Sat, 28 July 2012 00:10
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: utzoo!decvax!harpo!npoiv!npois!ucbvax!sf-lovers
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8045
Posted: Sun Jul 18 04:23:12 1982
Received: Mon Jul 19 00:48:04 1982

>From JPM@Mit-Ai Sun Jul 18 04:10:41 1982

SF-LOVERS Digest         Sunday, 18 Jul 1982       Volume 6 : Issue 18

Today's Topics:
             SF Movies - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
               SF TV - Star Trek II: The Roots of Khan,
              Spoiler - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday, July 18, 1982 12:27AM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) 
Subject: SPOILER WARNING!  SPOILER WARNING!

The messages in this digest discuss some plot details in both the
movie and the book Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.  Some readers may
not wish to read on.

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 16 Jul 1982 09:12-PDT
From: obrien at RAND-UNIX
Subject: Who was that doomed ship, anyway?

        My friend the SF reader, sometime fan, and all-round well-read
fellow, had a problem with Star Trek II.  The "Toborashi Maru", or
whatever, rang his chimes.  He swears he's heard that name before.  At
first he thought it was the ship in "Lord Jim", but no such luck.
Does anyone out there read widely enough to remember where this ship
has been seen before?  We may have a Tuckerism here...

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jul 1982 17:55:43 EDT (Friday)
From: Winston Edmond 
Subject: Spock's death

   The following, not surprising, item appeared in the Friday, July 9
issue of the Boston Globe.

   "Although Mr. Spock is killed off in the current block-buster
movie, 'Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan,' it's hard to keep a good
Vulcan down, and so Spock, played by Leonard Nimoy, may miraculously
be resurrected in the next Star Trek sequel.  Gene Roddenberry, who
created the original TV Star Trek, said Spock was killed in the
current film because Nimoy was tired of the role, but fans 'put so
much pressure on Paramount and Nimoy, Leonard has changed his mind'
and has agreed to play Spock again."

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1982 0152-PDT
From: Friedland at SUMEX-AIM
Subject: spock lives!?

Channel 2 in the SF bay area just finished a two hour analysis/review 
of TWOK.  They had many clips and interviews with all the principals.
There seemed to be complete agreement that Spock was not really dead 
and would surface in the next movie.  The clearest statement was by 
DeForest Kelley who said that Spock had had a mind meld with McCoy 
before entering the chamber and that that tied directly with the 
"remember" and the final line of McCoy about Spock not being dead 
while we remembered him, etc.  So it would appear that the theories 
about Spocks mind living in McCoy for awhile are correct.

Peter

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jul 1982 at 0301-PDT
From: dan at SRI-TSC
Reply-to: dan at SRI-TSC
Subject: "Star Trek: The Roots of Khan" (partial Star Trek II SPOILER)

Channel 2, a local San Francisco Bay Area station, put on a 2 hour
special at midnight tonight about "Star Trek: The Roots of Khan".  It
was billed as a "Creature Feature Presentation", with the usual
narrator for the midnight horror-flick "Creature Feature".  It
contained interviews with Nimoy, Montelban, DeForest Kelley, Shatner,
and two guys from Industrial Light and Magic, as well as shots from
both ST movies, and the entire "Space Seed" episode, uncut.  It
verified several ideas expressed in SF-Lovers about Spock's Re-birth,
as well as a few new tidbits, which I will try to relate.  Please
forgive misspellings (especially names) and Ramble-mode-on -- it's
past my bedtime.  <>

It was great to see Space Seed again.  It was pretty much as I
remembered it, except everyone looked so young in comparison to the
movie clips they showed alongside it.  One thing I noticed was that
Khan and his people were not the products of genetic engineering, but
rather of "selective breeding" (Spock mentioned this, and so did Kirk
and Khan).  Also, Khan was "absolute ruler of 1/4 your planet" (Spock)
before they fled to find a new world to conquer.

The interview with Montelban was interesting, but not too revealing.
It was interesting that he felt the emotional scenes were the easiest
to play.  "Any actor with any talent can play those scenes".  The
hardest ones, according to him, were the expositive ones, like the
ones he does on Fantasy Island.  It's hard to say all those factual
lines and not put your audience to sleep.  Later on in the show,
Shatner said "The hardest scenes were the ones with great emotion in
them"...  Guess I'm not the only one who thinks Shatner is a lousy
actor!

When DeForest Kelley was asked about Spock's death, he mentioned how
Spock gave him the mind-meld just before going into the radiation
chamber, and how at the funeral Bones said "He is not forgotten, as
long as we remember him" (or whatever the exact quote is).  Kelley
stressed the relationship of those two lines, and their importance in
bringing Spock back (but you heard it first in SF-Lovers!).

Nimoy mentioned that he had been approached by Paramount to do the
next movie.  And he also reminded the idiot interviewer (who kept
insisting "but Spock's dead.  I SAW him die.") that Spock's body is
lying on a planet formed by the Genesis Effect, which is still active
and effecting changes on his body.  When was asked if they might bring
Spock back by having the next movie take place before his death, he
commented "that's possible, but I'm not getting any younger".  All in
all, though nobody came out and said it, they were all trying VERY
hard (and not at all subtly) to give the message that Spock will be
back.  (It almost seemed that they were worried nobody would figure
that out by themselves, and everyone boycott the sequel).

The interview with the two guys from Industrial Light and Magic was
the most interesting (sorry I can't remember their names.  It's
late...).  Two things I hadn't heard before: The scene of the Genesis
Effect creating the planet from a Nebulae in the end was filmed in the
Cow Palace in San Francisco, because they needed a big area to set off
some pyrotechnics.  The cameras were mounted in the middle of the
arena pointed up toward the detonations, to get a "zero gee" effect.
Also, the scene in the end, of Spock's coffin sitting among the 
bushes, was filmed in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, because they
were in a hurry and needed a lush spot that was nearby (the ILM studio
is in San Raphael).

According to the interviewer, George Takai refused to be in ST:TWOK
unless they showed Sulu being more than just someone sitting on the
bridge.  So they filmed him in a few other scenes, developing his
character more, then cut all of the scenes except the bridge ones,
during editing!

Nimoy mentioned that one of the reasons the special effects were so
much better in TWOK was that in the first movie, they were way behind
schedule, so had to rush the SFX.  But in TWOK they had much more
time.  Hmm...

One final note: without his makeup on, Bones (DeForest Kelley) looked
OLD.  MUCH older than everyone else.  Hope they don't take too long
before starting the next ST movie (what a terrible thing to say)...

        Good Night!
        Dan@sri-tsc (Dan Chernikoff)

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jul 82 0:27:39-EDT (Tue)
From: Craig.umcp-cs at UDel-Relay
Subject: Star Trek III ????

[Start Flame Mode]

Are they really thinking of calling the movie "the search for Spock?"
I'll be upset!!!  Do you know how long I've been waiting to see that
pointy-eared smart-ass get his?  Doesn't like humans, does he?  Thinks
we're irrational creatures incapable of logical, rational action, does
he?  Well, I sure as hell wouldn't have volunteered to walk into a
radiation area.  Green-blooded snob!  I'm glad he's dead.

My only disappointment with the movie is that Chekhov lived.  My
favorite scene in the series was the "Empire" episode, where Chekhov
was stuffed into the torture chamber.  Maybe I don't like Russians or
something, but I enjoyed that.

How about this for the next movie:  Star Trek III: The Death of
Everyone.  Kill 'em all off.  Maybe Earth too.  How about this:
Chekhov is taking the Enterprise into Earth port after a long, boring
mission.  Kirk is making it with some random Yeoman, and Chekhov is
still hung over from that bottle of 'Wodka' he polished off last
night.  Anyway, Chekhov is making a pass at Saavik, when the
Enterprise 'sorta bumps into' Haley's comet.  Well, the fenders are
dented and all that, and they KNOW star fleet command just wouldn't
understand, so they take the ship into a fly-by-night body shop on the
dark side of the moon, get it patched up, and blame whatever they
can't fix on the Klingons.  Anyway, Haley's comet ends up crashing
into the Earth.  The entire crew is on shore leave, so they buy it.
Except Kirk, who is still closeted with the Yeoman.  At the end of the
movie they have this scene of Kirk being hung by his ... toenails and
flayed alive (just to satisfy the current demand for violence and
gore).

But the sentimental slobs will probably throw away this 'golden
opportunity' to correct their past mistakes and continue to glorify
some pointy eared half-breed who considers humans a poor second to a
good, reliable, logical, pocket calculator.  

[End Flame Mode]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1982 at 1450-CDT
From: ables at UTEXAS-11 (King Ables)
Subject: re: V6 #7

Re: Dan Klein's question: why didn't Chekhov and Terrell beam up from
    inside immediately?
    In the book they explain this as there being too much interference
    from the atmosphere of the planet. Beaming from the outside was
    hard enough, from inside a metal building was impossible.
    (as I think someone pointed out earlier). It's too bad that so
    many things have to be (or just are) left out of a movie that go
    in the book, they usually make the story much more interesting and
    logical. Star Wars was this way, the book had a LOT of information
    that got left on the cutting room floor. I strongly suggest the
    book to both SW and STII. TESB was only slightly enlightening. I
    hope when SW comes to CBS next year(?) that they do with it what
    ABC did with Superman, add about an hour's worth of footage that
    wasn't in the original release!

Re: Hal Chambers' point about Chekhov assuming his "regular post" upon
    return to the Enterprise.
    I assume he did that since he was familiar with the post and felt
    he could contribute. The book didn't really explain why it was so
    easy for him to be a part of the Enterprise crew again. It did
    explain his condition - not too healthy, but better than no help
    at all. In fact, he had to be helped to the turbo lift from Sick
    Bay.  I guess this was just one of the ways the good guys pitch
    in to help one another.

-ka

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jul 1982 1924-PDT
From: Henry W. Miller 
Subject: Star Trek II -- TWOK

        These are some comments on recent entries concerning "The
Wrath of Khan".

        First, in the novelization, it indicates that Chekov DID
indeed attempt to contact the ship, but there was too much background
static.  Perhaps the static was natural, or perhaps in was produced by
Khan himself to prevent the premature departure of a landing party.

        By the way, it was the Reliant that was orbiting Ceti Alpha V,
NOT the Enterprise...

        Perhaps Kirk should have raised the shields, as he anticipated
troubles at Regulus I.  However, the Reliant was running with her
shields down until the last moment, so I see no reason why Kirk should
not leave his shields down likewise, to avoid expending the extra
energy.

        As he berated himself later, "I did nothing but get caught
with my britches down..."

        (Remember the episode "The Ultimate Computer"?  After M-5
committed suicide, Kirk ordered the shields to remain down as an act
of good faith.  Perhaps that is one of those unwritten regs, that is
the commander's discretion...)

        Why did the creature leave Chekov's brain?  I have my own
theory.  I have seen the movie four times so far, but am still not
sure about one thing, since the scene moves too fast.

        It looks like Tyrell, just before committing suicide, yanks
some sort of wire out of his neck.  Could that wire, (If I saw the
scene correctly,) have been connected to the creature in his brain 
somehow?  Remember, in the previous scene on the Reliant, it appears
that Khan has some sort of electronic device wired into his bracelet.
The control device, possibly?

        Let us assume that said control device was used on both Chekov
and Tyrell.  When Tyrell committed suicide, he was no longer really
under the control of Khan, as he had yanked the control wire.  But the
shock, or feedback, plus Chekov's devotion and loyalty to Kirk could
have made things very uncomfortable for the Ceti Eel, and it decided
to vacate the premises for a better environment.  (or, perhaps it
matured early, and vacated Chekov's brain before death could occur...)

        That's my theory, anyway.

        Finally, about Chekov's status.  It WAS explicitly stated that
he was a member of the Reliant crew, as in the first scene in which we
see him, he is filing the ship's log as First Officer...

        Why did no one blink an eye when Chekov re-appeared on the
bridge?  Remember, this was a training mission, with a bunch of green
recruits.  In the battle they were about to engage, an experienced, 
space hardened weapons officer would be much more desirable than a
student who has only used a simulator.  (Plus the fact that the Mutura
Nebula rendered normal sensors useless.  It might just need that old
gut feel when aiming and firing...)

        Albeit, Chekov had just been through Hell, with the eel doing
a fair amount of damage to the ear canal and possibly to the brain
itself.  However, it appears that Chekov's loyalty overrode his
physical discomfort.

-Henry Miller

------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1982 1943-PDT
From: Henry W. Miller 
Subject: Star Trek II  --  The Wrath of Khan

        I forgot to mention something in my previous message 
concerning The Wrath of Khan.

        Kirk ordered the console code for the Reliant to me punched
up, in order to force her to drop her shields.  Well and good.

        But, in the TV episode "The Ultimate Computer", the M5 takes
on four other starships at the same time.  Why didn't the M5 use this
feature to disable the other ships?

        On the same notion, why didn't Commodore Wesley order the
Enterprise to drop her shields?

        Perhaps this feature was installed much later, to prevent a
similar M5 Fiasco.

-HWM

------------------------------

End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************


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