Article-I.D.: ucbvax.7655
Posted: Mon Jun 14 11:56:40 1982
Received: Tue Jun 15 05:55:04 1982

>From JPM@Mit-Ai Mon Jun 14 11:49:46 1982

SF-LOVERS Digest         Sunday, 13 Jun 1982       Volume 5 : Issue 69

Today's Topics:
                  Administrivia - Truncated Digests,
     SF Books - "Shortstack" & Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan &
        Index to Science Fiction Anthologies and Collections,
         SF Topics - Politics in SF,  SF Lovers - True Names,
              Random Topics - Commercials at the movies,
              SF Movies - Sword and the Sorcerer Query &
                   Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
              Spoiler - Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday, June 13, 1982 9:54AM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) 
Reply-to: SF-LOVERS-REQUEST at MIT-AI
Subject: Truncated Digests

For some reason we have yet to discover, issue 66 (Wednesday) was
unexpectably truncated in transmission.  Since this appears to have
happened to everyone, and since the missing material is quite short,
we are including the last message in issue 66 as the last message in
this issue, rather than retransmitting all of issue 66.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri 11-Jun-1982 22:24-EDT
From: Bill Russell 
Subject: Shortstack

Shortstack is a short story written by Walt and Leigh Richmond.  The
following publication history was extracted from "index to SCIENCE
FICTION anthologies and collections" edited by William Contento, and
published by G. K. HALL & Co., 70 Lincoln Street, Boston, Mass.

Magazine:       Analog, December 1964

Anthologies:    Elsewhere and Elsewhen, edited by Groff Conklin,
                Berkeley, May 1968

                Themes in Science Fiction, edited by Leo P. Kelley,
                McGraw Hill, 1972

Collection:     Positive Charge, by Walt and Leigh Richmond,
                Ace, 1970, #27235, with "Gallagher's Glacier"

Great little story.  The "Contento" index is a great help in finding
short SF fiction.  It cost $28 in 1978.  The Science Fiction Shop in
NYC might still have one or two left in stock.

This index has almost all English language SF anthologies and
collections published thur 1977.  It covers over 2,000 book titles
with full contents listings of over 1,900 books containing 12,000
different stories by 2,500 authors.  It has a book checklist, author
index, story index, and a book contents section.  As you might guess
it was generated by a computer.  The compiler says that he used a
computer at work to maintain his private collection.  Does anyone on
the list know "William Contento"?

This one book gets more use than any other of the reference works that
I have on SF.  Having an extensive collection of books (3,000+), but
not having the time or space to index them all, this is what I use as
an index to locate a particular story, or book to add to the
collection.

I hope that you can locate one of those books, I have two of them, and
as far as I know, ALL three are out of print.

Enjoy, Bill

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jun 1982 1130-EDT
From: Larry Seiler 
Subject: "Message" Literature

    It is my prejudiced opinion that "message" literature (eg the
stuff that Red Shift intends to put out) will be bound to be bad
literature if the author considers the "message" to be more important
than the story.  A good author (such as Ayn Rand) can put across a
combined political tract/story (I'm thinking of "Atlas Shrugged") and
make it work, but think how much better it might have been (judged as
a story) if she had tried to make realistic characters, instead of
making everyone who disagreed with her point of view into idiots.  But
enough about Ayn Rand.  I'll close by quoting Isaac Asimov, describing
his story "Day of the Hunters" in the anthology "Buy Jupiter":

        "This story, alas, seems to have a moral, and, in fact, ends
        by pounding the moral over the reader's head.  This is bad.
        Straightforward preaching spoils the effectiveness of a story.
        If you can't resist the impulse to improve your fellow human
        beings, do it subtly."

Larry Seiler, Seiler@XX

------------------------------

Date: Saturday, 12 Jun 1982 16:23-PDT
From: jim at RAND-UNIX
Subject: Nero Wolfe and True Names

Jonathan Ostrowsky asked whether Lee Horsley played Archie Goodwin in
the TV program Nero Wolfe a few years ago.  It's not SF, of course, 
but since I know the answer, you get it anyway.

Turns out I have tapes of both the pilot and one of the episodes from 
that short-lived series (1/2 season, I think).  The pilot was
extremely good and faithful to the books.  It starred Thayer David as
Nero Wolfe, Tom Mason as Archie Goodwin, and Biff McGuire as Inspector
Kramer.  The pilot was from "The Doorbell Rang."

The episode from the regular season is "The Golden Spiders."  It stars
William Conrad as Nero Wolfe and LEE HORSLEY as Archie (as
advertised).

I liked the first crew better.  William Conrad is a better shape for
the part, but Thayer David had the character down very well.  They
also went from a great harpsichord sound track to typical schlock
prime-time muzak.  Unfortunately the series didn't keep the promise of
the pilot, and degenerated into mere hackery ... and the ratings
showed that people realized it.

                And on another topic ...

Some people have asked for full "real" names and addresses on
correspondents.  I don't see the point.  What would this list be
without people like "Mijjil" or "Hobbit"?  Don't we all know them
better by these aliases than by their real names, which are often in
the "from" section anyway?  What does it matter where his/her real
system is?  If you've read True Names, by Vernor Vinge (fantastic
book, Mike, thanks for aiming me at it), you should agree that the
personality and opinions are enough, and shouldn't demand to know the
True Name of the hacker behind them.

                Jim@rand-unix
                (well, Jim Gillogly at the Rand Corporation,
		 if you must)

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jun 1982 0903-PDT
From: Mike Leavitt 
Subject: Commercials in movies

The Wall Street Journal recently ran a feature story about people who
get paid to place products in movies (like JVC in Superman, etc.)
Apparently the movie people don't actually get paid for running this
kind of "commercial," rather, they save on having to find the product
and pay for it, and, where appropriate, the product is made available
to people involved in making the movie.  When Coke (the drink) gets
placed in a movie, the entire crew might be provided with free Coke
for the duration of production.  I wouldn't be surprised if the
production crew in Superman II got free use of JVC equipment.

        Mike 

P. S. does this really have much to do with sf?

[  Not much - which is why it is under the RANDOM TOPICS heading.
   --  Jim  ]

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jun 82 15:34-PDT
From: mclure at SRI-UNIX
Subject: Star Trek movie script

When Star Trek: The Motion Picture was originally being scripted, I 
heard rumors that Roddenberry had put together a fantastic story about
the Enterprise et al meeting God.  The real God, that is.  It was 
axed, because it was too "cerebral".  I, for one, would like to see it
some day.

In my opinion, there are two scriptwriters who should be executed:  
Alan Dean Foster and Glen A. Larson.  They are responsible for much of
the garbage in visual SF.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jun 1982 1930-EDT
From: CZAR 
Subject: Query about ST:TWoK

I am puzzled about the name (actor's) of Khan's right hand man.
Problem:

1) Khan's right hand man appears to be Bennu of ABC's 'The Phoenix'

2) Bennu is played by Judson Scott

3) Khan (as far as I can tell) never calls the RHM by his first name,
   thus there is no way to link the character's name to the actor's.

4) The credits in ST:TWoK give no mention to Judson Scott

What gives?  Does the RHM have a twin (clone?) named Judson Scott?
Did he change his name before 'The Phoenix'?  If anyone can shed some
light on this I'd sure appreciate it.

czar

------------------------------

Date: Sunday, June 13, 1982 9:54AM
From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator) 
Subject: SPOILER WARNING!  SPOILER WARNING!

The following messages are the last in the digest.  They discuss some
plot details in both the movie and the book Star Trek II:  The Wrath
of Khan.  Some readers may not wish to read on.

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 11 June 1982 10:43-PDT
From: KDO at SRI-KL
Subject: Comments (spoilers) on ST:TWOK

Good acting, reasonable special effects (I like the new transporter),
but the plot is really awful.  Consider...

Khan and company have been left on Ceti Alpha (shouldn't it be Alpha 
Ceti?)  5.  The 6th planet in the system has blown up, sucking the 5th
planet into its old orbit.  Right!  In 15 years, not only has Star
Fleet forgotten that Khan was left in this system, but the mass of the
planet has been forgotten, or else it couldn't be confused with
another one.  The planet has become desolate in 15 years, and the only
native life form happens to be an extremely well-adapted human
parasite. Huh? It heads straight for the ear and invades the brain
without causing major damage except for taking partial control of the
person's mind (We are told it makes him suggestible...actually it
seems to work by torture.  We are also told it leads to madness but
instead when Chekov resists it crawls out of his ear in frustration!)
Shades of Alien!  Why??

Then we have a machine that creates life by "rearranging the matrix"
or some such hogwash.  It needs a lifeless planet to work on, but when
it is set off in a nebula it creates a planet to put life on.

Oh well, a great stride forward HAS been made.  The crew still don't 
have seatbelts, and the stars still move (between the planets, no
less), but THE ENTERPRISE CAN MOVE VERTICALLY.  I don't think they
have ever done that before...next thing you know it will take 4 enemy
ships instead of 3 to surround the enterprise...

                            Ken

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jun 1982 10:25:49-PDT
From: jef at LBL-UNIX (Jef Poskanzer [rtsg])
Subject: ST:TWOK - bugs.

No, not those bugs!  I mean bugs as in flaws...

- When Chekov sees the words "Botany Bay" and realizes where he is, he
should have immediately pressed the emergency beam-up button on his 
communicator.  Instead he panics (not a good trait in a first officer)
and drags Terill outside.  This is fixed in the book - he does try the
communicator, but there is too much static.

- Towards the end, when the Reliant is a wreck and Khan triggers the 
Genesis device, Spock instantly picks it up on the sensors.  However, 
we were previously told that sensors don't work in the nebula.  Is 
this one fixed in the book?

- As usual, photon torpedoes are considerably less powerful than your 
average 20th century H-bomb.  Negative progress.

- And maybe I should mention the insectoid bugs after all.  They are 
obviously an evolutionary impossibility.  It seems a little unlikely 
that Chekov would be able to man a weapons console a few hours after 
having one bore its way out of his skull - massive cerebral hemmorage 
seems certain.  And Khan seems to have confused the cerebral cortex 
with the cerebellum - in order to "wrap itself around the cerebral 
cortex", it would have to be about two feet long.

------------------------------

Date: 06/11/82 22:02:43
From: DMM@MIT-ML
Subject: Re:TWOK

        Was that a photon torpedo casing that they launched Spock in
at the end of the movie (not a particularly dignified funeral), or was
that a starfleet coffin? (In which case, why did it say MARK VI on the
sides?)  In any case, how is it that it could make a controlled re- 
entry?  Oh well, at least bones didn't say "He's dead, Jim."

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jun 82 00:52:12 EDT  (Sat)
From: Steve Bellovin 
Subject: Star Trek II -- The Wrath of Khan (spoiler)

OK, how many folks here are betting that the override code for the 
Reliant becomes the super-user password on lots of systems....?  (What
were those numbers, anyway?)  And how many simulations are 
reprogrammable from inside?

My biggest plot-gripe was how the plan to decoy Khan *depended* on him
monitoring an inherently insecure communications device.  You'd think
that in the 23rd century they could digitize and encrypt speech in
real-time (at the very least).

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jun 1982 13:42:49-PDT
From: decvax!steveg at Berkeley
Subject: ST-II

Sorry, but I thought the movie was a bit inane:

Kirk: I am old, I am young, etc. etc.

Spock: Khan's stategy shows 2-d thinking. (sheesh)

And that silly tag game in the clouds was ridiculous.



                        - Steve Gutfreund

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jun 1982 17:27:12-PDT
From: decvax!minow at Berkeley
Subject: Re: Kahn's right glove

It looked to me to be a reference either to Dr. Strangelove or to
Rotwang, the scientist in Fritz Lang's Metropolis.  Rotwang "lost his
hand in the service of science" in that wonderful film.

Martin Minow
decvax!minow

------------------------------

Date: 06/12/82 22:02:11
From: DMM@MIT-ML
Subject: Re:The Wrath of Khan

Could the use of the term "Mister" in referring to Saavik have
anything to do with the fact that she's a cadet?
                  -- DMM IT-ML

------------------------------

Date: 11 Jun 82 12:25-PDT
From: mclure at SRI-UNIX
Subject: REMEMBER. in Star Trek II

Someone recently asked on this list why Spock gives McCoy an apparent 
Vulcan mind meld for a few seconds, saying "Remember." This struck me
as being pretty obvious. I would translate it as "Remember what we
went through over the years." I'd be interested in other theories.

------------------------------

Date: 10-JUN-1982 08:45
From: VAX4::MCCOY
Reply-to: "VAX4::MCCOY c/o" 
Subject: ST:TWOK

I finally managed to see ST:TWOK last night (after all it's been out 
almost a week now). It was quite an improvement over ST:TMP, less time
spent showing off the special effects and more time developing the 
plot. I for one was happy to see a return to the humor of the TV 
series. The undocking scene with Kirk on the bridge was vintage ST.

Did anyone notice spock using the Vulcan mind probe on Dr. McCoy?  He 
held his hand on Dr. McCoy's face in the usually way from the series 
and said (I think) "REMEMBER". I was expecting something to come of 
this towards the end of the movie, but nothing.

Spock used this technique in at least two ST TV episodes. The first 
time he used it to convince everyone the bullets were not real at the 
OK Corral in "Spectre of the Gun" The second time was to help Kirk 
forget the woman he married in "The Paradise Syndrome". Was it used on
the planet Vulcan in ST:TMP?

Does anyone think this was deliberate, are they looking ahead to 
ST:III, or perhaps it was an editing mistake, with the result on the 
floor of the editing room.

REMEMBER WHAT?
--------------

Gary

------------------------------

End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************