Message-ID: <353@amd.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 24-Sep-84 03:14:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: amd.353
Posted: Mon Sep 24 03:14:40 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 24-Sep-84 06:16:54 EDT
References: <1267@unm-cvax.UUCP> <142@dmsd.UUCP>
Organization: AMD, Santa Clara, CA
Lines: 14

I don't have an interest in Apple either but did want to say that
as a design engineer in a division which makes single board microprocessor
products, John Bass's numbers look reasonable to me. I know what we
pay for 256K rams and what our required markup to pay for overhead is
and actually, we'd charge a lot more than Apple is asking for the upgrade.

Does anyone remember the HP-35 and how it cost $395. HP dropped the
price on it and didn't offer discounted upgrades to anyone, I recall.

-- 

 Phil Ngai (408) 982-6554
 UUCPnet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra,intelca}!amd!phil
 ARPAnet: amd!phil@decwrl.ARPA

Message-ID: <239@muddcs.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 26-Sep-84 19:58:28 EDT
Article-I.D.: muddcs.239
Posted: Wed Sep 26 19:58:28 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Sep-84 08:40:35 EDT
References: <2396@ihuxf.UUCP> <3174@rabbit.UUCP>
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA
Lines: 41

[] Eat this square box, and you'll get indigestion...

 >  This is a free country.  If you think someone charges too
 >  much for a product or service, DON'T BUY IT.  The only
 >  thing that makes it possible to charge anything at all
 >  is CUSTOMERS.  It is silly to charge $500 for a product
 >  if you can sell all you can make for $1,000.

I agree that this is a free country, and that the ultimate choice rests
with the purchaser, but didn't someone at Apple have the ambition to
make the computer for the Rest of Them ?? (I wouldn't think that anyone
on the net could be included in the 'Rest of Us' part of their Ad.)

Apple Computer may be selling all they can make right now, (since they
have just introduced a new product,) but the really important thing
to Apple will be the sales of the Mac in two to five years.  The durability
of a micro is influenced more by the NUMBERS of units out there than by
the quality or friendliness of the product. 
(Have you ever used a Commodore 64 ?? There must be zillions of those 
suckers around by now. If you have used a C64, you should understand what 
I mean by 'friendliness' or lack thereof.)

How much *GOOD* software will be written for a Mac if the developers have
to buy a Lisa, (see some of the other articles for a few flames about those)
and cannot get software or hardware for a reasonable price; and then after
all that, their market is ~10% of the size of the IBM PC market.  If you
were a developer, which would you buy:  
	a $5000 Mac with nothing, plus an $8000 Lisa with very little;
or
	an $8000 IBM PC/XT system, with available software for *ANY*
	development task ?
				(*  Prices approx.  *)
I would like to see the Macintosh succeed, and make another standard for
IBM, et.al to copy.  But I don't see it happening now that IBM and the 
cloners have been dropping their prices to realistic levels for the 
performance they deliver; (and what of the IBM AT? upward compatibility ??
Where is Apple's successor to the Lisa ?)

That's almost enough for now.  Just so there's no misunderstanding of my
micro-preference, I own an IBM PC, but I prefer the Macintosh *DESIGN*,
and abhor the *MARKETING*.  I guess you can't please everyone.

Message-ID: <464@watdcsu.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 3-Oct-84 07:25:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: watdcsu.464
Posted: Wed Oct  3 07:25:50 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 4-Oct-84 01:15:07 EDT
References: <2396@ihuxf.UUCP> <3174@rabbit.UUCP>, <239@muddcs.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 35

<.>

 >  How much *GOOD* software will be written for a Mac if the developers have
 >  to buy a Lisa, (see some of the other articles for a few flames about those)
 >  and cannot get software or hardware for a reasonable price; and then after
 >  all that, their market is ~10% of the size of the IBM PC market.  If you
 >  were a developer, which would you buy:  
 >  	a $5000 Mac with nothing, plus an $8000 Lisa with very little;
 >  or
 >  	an $8000 IBM PC/XT system, with available software for *ANY*
 >  	development task ?
 >  				(*  Prices approx.  *)

$5000 Mac?  I recall the Mac proces are down to $2195 US or so.  This
is for a 128K Mac, which is what you want for development, because you
can't expect all your potential customers to have 512K Macs, and
anything that runs on 128K will run on 512K.  $8000 Lisa?  Aren't
Lisas available for $4000-5000?  This would add up to about $7000
(plus serial cable) for a Lisa/Mac system...  Not that bad.

The new BYTE has an ad (in the back pages) for 256K chips.  They're
advertised as LOW PRICED, and are selling for $49.95.  Sixteen of
those critters would cost you $800.  So Apple is charging the Mac
owners a whole $200 more than the bare chips would cost, uninstalled.
What a rip-off!  :-)

And no, I don't own any Apple stock and/or products.

Tom Haapanen		University of Waterloo		(519) 744-2468

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