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Manx C65 compiler responses [message #74011] Sun, 26 May 2013 20:29
djm is currently offline  djm
Messages: 27
Registered: May 2013
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Message-ID: <493@nmtvax.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 9-Sep-84 23:24:01 EDT
Article-I.D.: nmtvax.493
Posted: Sun Sep  9 23:24:01 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 14-Sep-84 09:09:00 EDT
Organization: New Mexico Tech, Socorro, N.M.
Lines: 111

[Brrrzrip...eat that, bug!  Oh, you want some mustard, too?  Oh well.]

Here are the responses to date that I've gotten on my query about the
Manx Aztec C compiler for the Apple.  To those that sent me responses
and didn't get a thank you note, it's due to some strangenesses in the
local database on how to get from here to there.  Please consider this
a thank you.
	Dieter Muller

==========================================================================

From: Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) 
The current Aztec C for the Apple II from Manx supports DOS 3.3,
not ProDOS.  The ProDOS version is held up by the Macintosh C project,
which is scheduled for September delivery.  Aztec C can be asked to
generate either native 6502 machine code or interpreted code.  The
interpreted code tends to be smaller, the machine code faster.  They
can be mixed in the same program binary, so one can make appropriate
space/time tradeoffs.  There is also support for overlays, and a
command language interpreter (mini-shell) that programs can be made
to access for some library routines, to save space.  The manual is
pretty good (the only noteworthy omission is interpreted code specs),
and the language and supplied library are a fairly full implementation
of C.  Sources are included for the library (except interpreter) and
many of the utilities (screen editor, archiver, device drivers, but
NOT compiler/assembler/loader/shell).  My only real complaint is that
I wish they would hurry up with the ProDOS version, as I am getting
tired of compiling on DOS floppies then moving my binaries to the
ProFile.

===============================================================================

From: unm-cvax!cmcl2!seismo!hao!hplabs!ucbvax!FRIEDMAN@RU-BLUE.ARPA

     The Manx C compiler compiles to either 6502 or M-code with a
size vs speed tradeoff.  It also contains assemblers for both 6502
and M-code.  Currently the ProDos version is not available but it
will be out "real soon now".  The programs can be run under the Shell
or standalone.  If they are not run under the shell, the 80 column
support becomes minimal.  The shell replaces the comand processer of
DOS (and maybe the file manager?) and comtains the command cp, cat
and ls.  It also contains IO redirections (cat test > pr:).
    It come on 6 disk.  They contains the linker, compilers,
assemblers, an editor (VED) which is bad but usable, libraries, and
sources to the libraries (floating point and I/O, for 6502 and
M-code, with and without the shell.  6 total.)  and the editor in C.
    It can use standard DOS files and standard normal files (with high
bit off and cr/lf at end of line).  The shell requires STANDARD DOS
so it will not even run with a Corvus hard drive.  
    The manual explains the interfacing to assembly language and
adding device drivers so you can add your own functions etc.

                                           -Gadi

=============================================================================

Aztec C (from Manx Software) for the Apple has all the features of C except
for bit fields.  Two versions of the compiler are included: a p-code version
and a native code version.  Both compilers are rather slow but produce fast
code.  Also included is a vi-like screen editor, libraries, a simple shell
and a few tools.  Source code (in C) for most of these is included.  I am
not too familiar with the CP/M version, but I think the compiler would be
identical (except for funning faster on a z80).

					Dave Newkirk, ihnp4!ihuxl!dcn

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We use the DOS version of the MANX compiler on our Apples here at the
Ergonomics Lab.  The package comes with two compilers: a native code
compiler and a pseudo-code compiler.  The first sacrifices space for speed
while the second generates less code but demands that an interpreter
be present in memory.  The license agreement allows the production
of standalone binaries for sale without royalties to be paid to MANX.

The libraries conform to stdio, but there are a few routines added to
ensure compatability with DOS's notion of what a newline is.
There is no graphics library (we had to write one ourselves).

The one complaint which everybody makes about this compiler is its
speed (or rather the lack of it).  It is slow.  Make that s..l..o..w.
A 500 line program can take up to 20 minutes to compile and link.
Nevertheless, we are satisfied with it and have no other serious complaints.

Les Gondor, U of Toronto CSRG
{cornell,ihnp4,allegra,uw-beaver,decvax!utzoo}!utcsrgv!lgondor
CSNET: lgondor@toronto		ARPA: lgondor%Toronto@CSNet-Relay
"Strange women lying in ponds and distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	I have purchased the Manx C65 package about a month ago.

To date I have been impressed with its quality and functionality.
It *does* produce true 6502 machine code, and through some careful
optimization, came be made to run quite fast. As an exampl, I am 
working on a graphics package now, written in C. The line drawing
algorithm is comparable in speed to the routines in the Apple rom.
It supports a pseudo UNIX shell environment with built in ls, cat, mv,
cp, etc commands. The full stdio library is supplied *with source*.
All the hooks are there into DOS3.3 for file IO including a subroutine for
RWTS in addition to the lock, unlock, catalog, read, write, etc.
It's the best $200 you can spend if you are a real 'C' fan like me.

Lou Haskell - AT&T- Bell Labs - Columbus
...cbosg!cbscc!ljh
-- 
     Dieter Muller
     aka Rube Goldberg II
     (djm@nmtvax)
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