| New HD [message #33478] |
Wed, 16 January 2013 16:34  |
![philo[1][2][3][4] is currently offline](theme/default/images/offline.png "philo[1][2][3][4] is currently offline")
philo[1][2][3][4]
Messages: 48
Registered: December 2012
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It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686
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| Re: New HD [message #33542 is a reply to message #33478] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 09:46  |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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philo wrote:
> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>
> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>
> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
<grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
/BAH
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| Re: New HD [message #33545 is a reply to message #33478] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 10:16 |
Stephen Wolstenholme
Messages: 231
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:34:02 -0600, philo <philo@privcy.not> wrote:
> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>
> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>
> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
Size isn't everything!
Steve
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| Re: New HD [message #33588 is a reply to message #33478] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 16:48 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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On Wed, 2013-01-16, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= wrote:
There's something wrong about how your newsreader generates the From:
line.
> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
I was going to say "Bah! Newcomer! I have no drives larger than 40!"
But then I realized that I'm thinking in gigabytes. Whoops.
It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
changes by a factor 1000.
> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
Yes. My first hard disk felt so ... luxurious. Not a cavern, more
like a palace, normally only available to Scientists in white lab
coats.
> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
That's not half-obsolete. Unless you do a lot of video work (some
people do) or download warez you're never have time to consume (many
do that too for some reason) there's no easy way to fill 3TB.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: New HD [message #33602 is a reply to message #33542] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 19:15 |
Patrick Scheible
Messages: 768
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> philo wrote:
>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>
>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>
>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>
> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
-- Patrick
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| Re: New HD [message #33603 is a reply to message #33588] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 19:17 |
Patrick Scheible
Messages: 768
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
> On Wed, 2013-01-16, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= wrote:
>
> There's something wrong about how your newsreader generates the From:
> line.
>
>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>
> I was going to say "Bah! Newcomer! I have no drives larger than 40!"
> But then I realized that I'm thinking in gigabytes. Whoops.
>
> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
> changes by a factor 1000.
>
>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>
> Yes. My first hard disk felt so ... luxurious. Not a cavern, more
> like a palace, normally only available to Scientists in white lab
> coats.
>
>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>
> That's not half-obsolete. Unless you do a lot of video work (some
> people do) or download warez you're never have time to consume (many
> do that too for some reason) there's no easy way to fill 3TB.
Some people get that much in sound, if they have a lot and store the
files in flac format (or wav) instead of mp3.
-- Patrick
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| Re: New HD [message #33604 is a reply to message #33588] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 19:46 |
Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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"Jorgen Grahn" <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote in message
news:slrnkfgsd4.ah7.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid...
> On Wed, 2013-01-16, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= wrote:
>
> There's something wrong about how your newsreader generates the From:
> line.
>
>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>
> I was going to say "Bah! Newcomer! I have no drives larger than 40!"
> But then I realized that I'm thinking in gigabytes. Whoops.
>
> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
> changes by a factor 1000.
>
>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>
> Yes. My first hard disk felt so ... luxurious. Not a cavern, more
> like a palace, normally only available to Scientists in white lab
> coats.
>
>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>
> That's not half-obsolete. Unless you do a lot of video work (some
> people do) or download warez you're never have time to consume (many
> do that too for some reason) there's no easy way to fill 3TB.
That’s not right, I've filled quite a few 2TB drives just with the
overflow with the PVR that I haven't gotten around to deleting
the stuff I am unlikely to get around to watching because the
drives are so damned cheap its not worth the time to bother.
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| Re: New HD [message #33629 is a reply to message #33602] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 02:02 |
Bob Martin
Messages: 157
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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in 586607 20130118 001507 Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>
>> philo wrote:
>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>
>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>
>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>
>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>
> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>
> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
My first PC at work was a PC-XT with 10MB drive, then I was upgraded to a
PC-AT with 20MB, but 15 years before that I was using 2311 (7.5MB) and
2314 (28MB).
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| Re: New HD [message #33635 is a reply to message #33588] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 03:01 |
swatto
Messages: 37
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
wrote:
> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
> changes by a factor 1000.
> /Jorgen
You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
or more I think. One tiny chip!
Back in the day, 1980s or even the 1990s, if you even suggested such a
future, they would say you watch too much Star Trek.
But here it is.
I am writing this on my old machine which I have kept going. This is a
mere 2gb drive. It's considered ridiculously obsolete, but it's still
fun to tinker with old junk.
Canbear
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| Re: New HD [message #33643 is a reply to message #33602] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 03:50 |
Nick Spalding
Messages: 165
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Patrick Scheible wrote, in <86r4ljpcs4.fsf@chai.my.domain>
on Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>
>> philo wrote:
>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>
>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>
>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>
>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>
> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>
> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
Or the 1311 on 14xx machines, same size, 2 million characters.
--
Nick Spalding
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| Re: New HD [message #33644 is a reply to message #33602] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 04:33 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800
Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
Compare with 32GB micro-SD cards... the size of fingernails.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: New HD [message #33646 is a reply to message #33602] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 05:58 |
Stephen Wolstenholme
Messages: 231
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800, Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net>
wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>
>> philo wrote:
>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>
>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>
>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>
>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>
> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>
> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>
> -- Patrick
The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
more" moments!
That was about 50 years ago.
Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
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| Re: New HD [message #33647 is a reply to message #33646] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 06:10 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:58:22 +0000
Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@npsl1.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800, Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> philo wrote:
>>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>>
>>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>>
>>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>>
>>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>>
>> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>>
>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>>
>> -- Patrick
>
> The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
> The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
> more" moments!
>
> That was about 50 years ago.
Try finding a system with less than 8 megs of RAM now. I have a
phone that qualifies and probably a dishwasher (it's fairly old) but I
wouldn't bet on the (much newer) washing machine or the TV.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: New HD [message #33657 is a reply to message #33646] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 07:49 |
Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800, Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> philo wrote:
>>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>>
>>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>>
>>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>>
>>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>>
>> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>>
>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>>
>> -- Patrick
>
> The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
> The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
> more" moments!
>
> That was about 50 years ago.
Westinghouse used Scientific Data Systems hardware for their
process control systems. They had a disk drive called a RAD
used about 30 inch platters run vertically and took a full height
cabinet. It required 220 two phase to turn the disk and a
significant air compressor to raise the heads before the drive
started to turn. On a bad day you could crash it with a hard
look from across the room. It had fixed head per track.
Stored 0.5Mbytes
DEC also had rack sized high speed disk drive for the PDP-11 at
about the same time (69-70) that stored 262K based on the
DF32 used for PDP-8's
Mixed with the loose change in my pocket 80G bytes of usb
and sd memory cards capable of far more abuse than small
disk memory of that era.
w..
w..
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| Re: New HD [message #33658 is a reply to message #33635] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 07:52 |
Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Canbear wrote:
> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
> wrote:
>
>> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>> changes by a factor 1000.
>
>> /Jorgen
>
> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
> or more I think. One tiny chip!
I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
w..
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| Re: New HD [message #33659 is a reply to message #33635] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 08:26 |
Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <9kvhf8pv5r1l7fmb3v80g3ak8pk01mt1mk@4ax.com>,
Canbear <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
> wrote:
>
>> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>> changes by a factor 1000.
>
>> /Jorgen
>
> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>
> Back in the day, 1980s or even the 1990s, if you even suggested such a
> future, they would say you watch too much Star Trek.
>
> But here it is.
>
> I am writing this on my old machine which I have kept going. This is a
> mere 2gb drive. It's considered ridiculously obsolete, but it's still
> fun to tinker with old junk.
>
> Canbear
In machines I've owned I've gone from submegabyte disks to terabytes,
so a factor of more than a million. The first computer I worked on
used magnetic tape as primary, no disk at all. Two of the machines
I've been paid to work on used punched tape as primary I/O.
I still sometimes slip up and refer to a disk as "megabytes" rather
than gigabytes.
--
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| Re: New HD [message #33660 is a reply to message #33644] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 08:30 |
Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <20130118093307.01aeecc1c852bad5158b668b@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800
> Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
>
>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>
> Compare with 32GB micro-SD cards... the size of fingernails.
With faster access and truly random at that. No worries about
fragmentation and arranging data to minimize seek times.
It's said the real gain of SSDs is that no seek times.
In the day we were very aware that random access disk was less than
completely random, but you could do things you would be fired for
attempting to do with tape.
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| Re: New HD [message #33662 is a reply to message #33646] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 08:36 |
Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <g8aif8dejbg9n3ndkj8b2t96vpn2qvqn8q@4ax.com>,
Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@npsl1.com> wrote:
> The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
> The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
> more" moments!
>
> That was about 50 years ago.
>
> Steve
When I got my first 40 meg drive I thought I had infinite storage and
I did for the available media of the time. No music, except perhaps
midi and certainly no video, hell the confuser B&W not even grayscale.
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| Re: New HD [message #33663 is a reply to message #33657] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 08:40 |
Walter Bushell
Messages: 1834
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <50F944D1.903914BB@bytecraft.com>,
Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800, Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>> > It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>>> > from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>> >
>>>> > I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>>> > used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>> >
>>>> > Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>>> > no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>>>
>>>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>>>
>>> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>>>
>>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>>>
>>> -- Patrick
>>
>> The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
>> The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
>> more" moments!
>>
>> That was about 50 years ago.
>
> Westinghouse used Scientific Data Systems hardware for their
> process control systems. They had a disk drive called a RAD
> used about 30 inch platters run vertically and took a full height
> cabinet. It required 220 two phase to turn the disk and a
> significant air compressor to raise the heads before the drive
> started to turn. On a bad day you could crash it with a hard
> look from across the room. It had fixed head per track.
> Stored 0.5Mbytes
>
> DEC also had rack sized high speed disk drive for the PDP-11 at
> about the same time (69-70) that stored 262K based on the
> DF32 used for PDP-8's
>
> Mixed with the loose change in my pocket 80G bytes of usb
> and sd memory cards capable of far more abuse than small
> disk memory of that era.
>
> w..
>
> w..
Oh, yes to the abuse. I had a 32 gigabyte SD card go through the wash
and it still works. Now if I want a replacement chip for my camera I
would have to look hard, I think it can take up to one gigabyte and
certainly not 4.
--
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| Re: New HD [message #33664 is a reply to message #33658] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 08:45 |
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Originally posted by: Ibmekon
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:52:03 -0500, Walter Banks
<walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>
>
> Canbear wrote:
>
>> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>> changes by a factor 1000.
>>
>>> /Jorgen
>>
>> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>
> I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
> stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
>
> w..
Consider what happens if you close your eyes, turn your head and
blink.
What has always impressed me is the data storage and image processing
done - and no batch processing or task scheduling of the job.
Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern computers.
Carl Goldsworthy
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| Re: New HD [message #33665 is a reply to message #33660] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 09:14 |
hda
Messages: 47
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 08:30:58 -0500, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
wrote:
> In article <20130118093307.01aeecc1c852bad5158b668b@eircom.net>,
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800
>> Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>>
>> Compare with 32GB micro-SD cards... the size of fingernails.
>
> With faster access and truly random at that. No worries about
> fragmentation and arranging data to minimize seek times.
>
> It's said the real gain of SSDs is that no seek times.
>
Yes when it is brandnew/empty.
Delays will come, when unoccupied space is no more available. I have
an SSD (OCZ-vertex3 build in box) of 60G and it is 60% filled. Now it
slows down and has sometimes very large (upto 1000 ms) reponsetimes. I
understand because block erase takes place before new data is put.
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| Re: New HD [message #33668 is a reply to message #33664] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 09:52 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ibmekon wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:52:03 -0500, Walter Banks
> <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Canbear wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>>> changes by a factor 1000.
>>>
>>>> /Jorgen
>>>
>>> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>>> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>>> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>>
>> I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
>> stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
>>
>> w..
>
> Consider what happens if you close your eyes, turn your head and
> blink.
>
> What has always impressed me is the data storage and image processing
> done - and no batch processing or task scheduling of the job.
>
> Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern computers.
The hardware is OK; the OSes still need a lot of work. OSes should be
seen and not heard unless asked.
Every single one still needs to be wrestled with on a minutely basis.
/BAH
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| Re: New HD [message #33670 is a reply to message #33545] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 09:52 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:34:02 -0600, philo <philo@privcy.not> wrote:
>
>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>
>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>
>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>
> Size isn't everything!
Size is nothing if it doesn't do the job well.
/BAH
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| Re: New HD [message #33671 is a reply to message #33602] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 09:52 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Patrick Scheible wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>
>> philo wrote:
>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>
>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>
>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>
>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>
> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>
> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
I remember the 20K ones (DECism) and how wonderful they were
because I could edit any file with TECO cutting my work time
by 100% or more. A lot of my work (1620 and cards) just disappeared
so I got to do more interesting stuff.
/BAH
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| Re: New HD [message #33690 is a reply to message #33668] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 10:07 |
Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004D3912EFBEA5D@aca2fcab.ipt.aol.com...
> Ibmekon wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:52:03 -0500, Walter Banks
>> <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Canbear wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>>> >changes by a factor 1000.
>>>>
>>>> >/Jorgen
>>>>
>>>> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>>>> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>>>> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>>>
>>> I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
>>> stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
>>>
>>> w..
>>
>> Consider what happens if you close your eyes, turn your head and
>> blink.
>>
>> What has always impressed me is the data storage and image processing
>> done - and no batch processing or task scheduling of the job.
>>
>> Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern computers.
> The hardware is OK;
Tad more than OK.
> the OSes still need a lot of work. OSes
> should be seen and not heard unless asked.
Plenty of them are.
> Every single one still needs to be wrestled with on a minutely basis.
Oh bullshit.
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| Re: New HD [message #33691 is a reply to message #33670] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 10:08 |
Rod Speed
Messages: 3507
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
news:PM0004D391266C42D8@aca2fcab.ipt.aol.com...
> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:34:02 -0600, philo <philo@privcy.not> wrote:
>>
>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>
>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>
>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>
>> Size isn't everything!
>
> Size is nothing if it doesn't do the job well.
They do tho.
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| Re: New HD [message #33694 is a reply to message #33662] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 10:14 |
Walter Banks
Messages: 1000
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <g8aif8dejbg9n3ndkj8b2t96vpn2qvqn8q@4ax.com>,
> Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@npsl1.com> wrote:
>
>> The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
>> The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
>> more" moments!
>>
>> That was about 50 years ago.
>>
>> Steve
>
> When I got my first 40 meg drive I thought I had infinite storage and
> I did for the available media of the time. No music, except perhaps
> midi and certainly no video, hell the confuser B&W not even grayscale.
I routinely generate listing files larger than my earlier disk drives. I
did
several traces a couple days ago sorting out a problem in a compiler.
~56M generated files. I had several so I could do a file compares.
Things have changed.
w..
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| Re: New HD [message #33696 is a reply to message #33670] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 10:16 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 18 Jan 2013 14:52:20 GMT
jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:34:02 -0600, philo <philo@privcy.not> wrote:
>>
>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>
>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>
>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>
>> Size isn't everything!
>
> Size is nothing if it doesn't do the job well.
Oh I disagree, if it doesn't work I want it nice and small so it's
easy to throw away.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: New HD [message #33697 is a reply to message #33629] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 10:48 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> writes:
> in 586607 20130118 001507 Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> philo wrote:
>>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>>
>>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>>
>>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>>
>>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>>
>> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>>
>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>
> My first PC at work was a PC-XT with 10MB drive, then I was upgraded to a
> PC-AT with 20MB, but 15 years before that I was using 2311 (7.5MB) and
> 2314 (28MB).
The IBM 1311 was 2MB (and we liked it that way).
We had 2 drives and one large file that needed 10 packs.
Doing an update drive to drive would have taken 20 full stops
waiting for pack changes so I invented split cylinder file organization
so processing could continue while packs were changed.
I also had an XT with 10MB.
As recently as 2000 I plugged it back in, still worked fine.
Only enhancements were a VGA video card and memory extension to 1MB.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: New HD [message #33698 is a reply to message #33668] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 10:50 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
> Ibmekon wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:52:03 -0500, Walter Banks
>> <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Canbear wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>>> >changes by a factor 1000.
>>>>
>>>> >/Jorgen
>>>>
>>>> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>>>> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>>>> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>>>
>>> I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
>>> stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
>>>
>>> w..
>>
>> Consider what happens if you close your eyes, turn your head and
>> blink.
>>
>> What has always impressed me is the data storage and image processing
>> done - and no batch processing or task scheduling of the job.
>>
>> Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern computers.
>
> The hardware is OK; the OSes still need a lot of work. OSes should be
> seen and not heard unless asked.
>
> Every single one still needs to be wrestled with on a minutely basis.
Clearly you are not running a Linux distro.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: New HD [message #33716 is a reply to message #33668] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 13:32 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <PM0004D3912EFBEA5D@aca2fcab.ipt.aol.com>, See.above@aol.com
(jmfbahciv) writes:
> Ibmekon wrote:
>
>> Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern
>> computers.
>
> The hardware is OK; the OSes still need a lot of work. OSes should
> be seen and not heard unless asked.
But, but... then they wouldn't be _interactive_! Microsoft's design
philosophy can be summed up in three words: "in your face".
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: New HD [message #33723 is a reply to message #33697] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 16:21 |
philo[1][2][3][4]
Messages: 48
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 01/18/2013 09:48 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
> Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> writes:
>
>> in 586607 20130118 001507 Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> philo wrote:
>>>> > It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>>> > from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>> >
>>>> > I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>>> > used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>> >
>>>> > Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>>> > no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>>>
>>>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>>>
>>> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>>>
>>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>>
>> My first PC at work was a PC-XT with 10MB drive, then I was upgraded to a
>> PC-AT with 20MB, but 15 years before that I was using 2311 (7.5MB) and
>> 2314 (28MB).
>
> The IBM 1311 was 2MB (and we liked it that way).
>
> We had 2 drives and one large file that needed 10 packs.
> Doing an update drive to drive would have taken 20 full stops
> waiting for pack changes so I invented split cylinder file organization
> so processing could continue while packs were changed.
>
> I also had an XT with 10MB.
> As recently as 2000 I plugged it back in, still worked fine.
> Only enhancements were a VGA video card and memory extension to 1MB.
>
I have a Kaypro in my collection with a 10 meg drive. It belonged to the
father of a friend of mine.
The company I worked for back in the late 70's/early 80's (among other
things) was an NLS distributor and I actually still have some of their
literature and prices.
When I showed the literature to my friend ...and the price..
He just said: No wonder my mother got so upset.
--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686
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| Re: New HD [message #33724 is a reply to message #33646] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 16:23 |
philo[1][2][3][4]
Messages: 48
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 01/18/2013 04:58 AM, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:15:07 -0800, Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> philo wrote:
>>>> It seems like only yesterday when I upgraded the hard drive in my P-1
>>>> from 850 megs to 2 gigs.
>>>>
>>>> I recall how nervous I was handling a drive so large. The first time I
>>>> used it...I felt like I was walking around inside a *huge* cavern.
>>>>
>>>> Today the new 3TB drive arrived for my spare machine...
>>>> no big deal, it's already half-obsolete, larger ones are available.
>>>
>>> <grin> At least you were able to experience some awe and humility.
>>
>> Nothing like hard disc drive sizes to make me feel old.
>>
>> Remember the 40 megabyte drives.... the size of dishwashers.
>>
>> -- Patrick
>
> The first dishwasher size disc drives I worked on were 2 megs!
> The change to 8 megs was another one of those "nobody will ever need
> more" moments!
>
> That was about 50 years ago.
>
> Steve
>
Lucky for me, I was just 13 years old then
and did not have to deal with it :)
--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686
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| Re: New HD [message #33737 is a reply to message #33659] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 16:31 |
philo[1][2][3][4]
Messages: 48
Registered: December 2012
Karma: 0
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Member |
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On 01/18/2013 07:26 AM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <9kvhf8pv5r1l7fmb3v80g3ak8pk01mt1mk@4ax.com>,
> Canbear <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>> changes by a factor 1000.
>>
>>> /Jorgen
>>
>> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>>
>> Back in the day, 1980s or even the 1990s, if you even suggested such a
>> future, they would say you watch too much Star Trek.
>>
>> But here it is.
>>
>> I am writing this on my old machine which I have kept going. This is a
>> mere 2gb drive. It's considered ridiculously obsolete, but it's still
>> fun to tinker with old junk.
>>
>> Canbear
>
> In machines I've owned I've gone from submegabyte disks to terabytes,
> so a factor of more than a million. The first computer I worked on
> used magnetic tape as primary, no disk at all. Two of the machines
> I've been paid to work on used punched tape as primary I/O.
>
> I still sometimes slip up and refer to a disk as "megabytes" rather
> than gigabytes.
>
Now, we will need to get used to Terabytes.
My project turned out to be a bit more than I had envisioned.
When I opened the machine to put in the larger drive...even though the
mobo is only four years old, I noticed a number of capacitors that were
showing the first signs of leaking...so I took the machine out of service.
The new drive . instead went into my wife's machine,
the 500gig drive that was in it was about 60% full.
Since her old machine had about the same specs as the one with the
failing mobo, I just took that for my own. It has a 500 gig drive in
it... and I'll put her old 500gig drive in and that should last me a
while, It's just my "spare" machine anyway, no big deal.
--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686
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| Re: New HD [message #33738 is a reply to message #33698] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 16:37 |
Patrick Scheible
Messages: 768
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>
>> Ibmekon wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:52:03 -0500, Walter Banks
>>> <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Canbear wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > >It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>>> > >changes by a factor 1000.
>>>> >
>>>> > >/Jorgen
>>>> >
>>>> > You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>>>> > cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>>>> > or more I think. One tiny chip!
>>>>
>>>> I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
>>>> stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
>>>>
>>>> w..
>>>
>>> Consider what happens if you close your eyes, turn your head and
>>> blink.
>>>
>>> What has always impressed me is the data storage and image processing
>>> done - and no batch processing or task scheduling of the job.
>>>
>>> Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern computers.
>>
>> The hardware is OK; the OSes still need a lot of work. OSes should be
>> seen and not heard unless asked.
>>
>> Every single one still needs to be wrestled with on a minutely basis.
>
> Clearly you are not running a Linux distro.
Oh come on. Linux may be better than the alternative, but there's still
a ton of room for improvement, a lot of things that need to be
configured in non-obvious ways to work, a lot of things that worked in
old versions but not in new ones or vice versa. You can't get too mad
at them because they're volunteers and dinking with themes is a lot more
fun than debugging device drivers, but still.
As far as commercial software, in some ways things have gotten worse.
In the olden days you'd pay the manufacturer big bucks to buy or lease
the system but at least they wouldn't be laying traps all over to entice
or trap you into buying other products too or exploiting your personal
information.
-- Patrick
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| Re: New HD [message #33739 is a reply to message #33738] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 16:56 |
Elliott Roper
Messages: 129
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <86hame2mwg.fsf@chai.my.domain>, Patrick Scheible
<kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
> and dinking with themes is a lot more
> fun than debugging device drivers, but still.
Whaat?
Debugging device drivers is the most fun you can have with your clo....
oh, never mind.
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
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| Re: New HD [message #33741 is a reply to message #33588] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 17:39 |
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
Messages: 3286
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In <slrnkfgsd4.ah7.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>, on 01/17/2013
at 09:48 PM, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> said:
> On Wed, 2013-01-16, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?philo=A0?= wrote:
> There's something wrong about how your newsreader generates the From:
> line.
From what you quoted, there's something wrong with the way slrn
rendered it. See REC 2047. At a guess A0 is a non-breaking space.
Is there an option to turn on MIME decoding of header fields?
> It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
> changes by a factor 1000.
The first computer that I used had a 2,000 word (10 digit plus sign)
drum and a 600,000 word disk.
Nobody will ever need more than a petabyte. And if they do I'll deny
ever having written that. (-;
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
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| Re: New HD [message #33747 is a reply to message #33738] |
Fri, 18 January 2013 18:05 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Patrick Scheible <kkt@zipcon.net> writes:
> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>
>>> Ibmekon wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 07:52:03 -0500, Walter Banks
>>>> <walter@bytecraft.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Canbear wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 17 Jan 2013 21:48:22 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >It's funny how disoriented you become when your available storage
>>>> >> >changes by a factor 1000.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >/Jorgen
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You aren't kidding. I am still amazed at the SDHC chips they put into
>>>> >> cameras. I just bought an 8gb, but they had much larger ones at 48gb
>>>> >> or more I think. One tiny chip!
>>>> >
>>>> >I am impressed with the manufacturing tolerances of these chips. Data is
>>>> >stored in many cases as analog levels to get more bits per cell.
>>>> >
>>>> >w..
>>>>
>>>> Consider what happens if you close your eyes, turn your head and
>>>> blink.
>>>>
>>>> What has always impressed me is the data storage and image processing
>>>> done - and no batch processing or task scheduling of the job.
>>>>
>>>> Only in recent years have I begun to be impressed by modern computers.
>>>
>>> The hardware is OK; the OSes still need a lot of work. OSes should be
>>> seen and not heard unless asked.
>>>
>>> Every single one still needs to be wrestled with on a minutely basis.
>>
>> Clearly you are not running a Linux distro.
>
> Oh come on. Linux may be better than the alternative, but there's still
> a ton of room for improvement, a lot of things that need to be
> configured in non-obvious ways to work, a lot of things that worked in
> old versions but not in new ones or vice versa. You can't get too mad
> at them because they're volunteers and dinking with themes is a lot more
> fun than debugging device drivers, but still.
I've read about all the interface changes,
I don't get it.
Why do these desktops keep changing the way they look/work with the same
config files?
Anyway, I'm an Fvwm2 user.
Nothing changes unless I change a config file.
All my old stuff works fine. The desktop I use today is the same
as the one I first used on a Sparc 1, almost 20 years ago.
Perhaps the biggest change was Netscape to Firefox.
> As far as commercial software, in some ways things have gotten worse.
> In the olden days you'd pay the manufacturer big bucks to buy or lease
> the system but at least they wouldn't be laying traps all over to entice
> or trap you into buying other products too or exploiting your personal
> information.
Zero commercial software here...
and I like it that way!
--
Dan Espen
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