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Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28381 is a reply to message #28324] Wed, 12 December 2012 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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On 12/11/2012 8:45 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> For instance, way back a new house came with

> _nothing_--things like a stove and heater were optional. Old TVs

> required a rooftop antenna, which may have been an extra charge and

> not cheap to install.


Especially after you fall off the roof and have all those medical bills.
....
>

> In the want ads, we'll see that jobs were separated for men and women


For some reason I was looking at want ads the other day and flashed on
this. It wasn't all that long ago.

--
Pete
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28382 is a reply to message #28343] Wed, 12 December 2012 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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On 12/12/2012 12:21 AM, Michael Black wrote:

> THere hasn't been a month since I was born that the magazine hasnt'

> arrived each month. And once I could read, mosto of the time I'd look at

> the photos, and just read the captions.


Especially the exotic native women in traditional dress?


--
Pete
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28383 is a reply to message #28342] Wed, 12 December 2012 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Makowiec is currently offline  Joe Makowiec
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On 11 Dec 2012 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:

> I think someone from Bell's family was on the Geographic board of

> directors. I believe the Bell ads ceased before Divestiture.


Gilbert Hovey Grosvenor, the first fulltime editor of NatGeo magazine,
was married to Elsie May Bell, the daughter of Alexander Graham Bell and
Mabel Gardiner Hubbard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Hovey_Grosvenor

He also served as president of the society 1920-1954.

--
Joe Makowiec
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Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
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Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28391 is a reply to message #28382] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, Peter Flass wrote:

> On 12/12/2012 12:21 AM, Michael Black wrote:

>

>> THere hasn't been a month since I was born that the magazine hasnt'

>> arrived each month. And once I could read, mosto of the time I'd look at

>> the photos, and just read the captions.

>

> Especially the exotic native women in traditional dress?

>

>

That's tapered off. I recall noticing early on, but it wasn't
interesting. And then when I was of age, I guess I was used to it, so
there wasn't a great appeal.

I don't remember seeing much of it in recent years, though they've shown
things like a nude beach in Russia, and a Japanese public bath, though
nothing is revealed.

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28392 is a reply to message #28383] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, Joe Makowiec wrote:

> On 11 Dec 2012 in alt.folklore.computers, wrote:

>

>> I think someone from Bell's family was on the Geographic board of

>> directors. I believe the Bell ads ceased before Divestiture.

>

> Gilbert Hovey Grosvenor, the first fulltime editor of NatGeo magazine,

> was married to Elsie May Bell, the daughter of Alexander Graham Bell and

> Mabel Gardiner Hubbard:

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Hovey_Grosvenor

>

> He also served as president of the society 1920-1954.

>

I wasn't sure of the connection. I do remember later, a Melville Bell
Grosvenor, and couldn't remember how he related to Bell.

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28394 is a reply to message #28324] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On Dec 11, 7:41 pm, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>> I sometimes get so fascinated by the old stuff, including the

>> advertising, that I forget what I was looking for in the first place.

>

> Absolutely.

>

> The advertising is very informative in its own right. For one, we get

> an idea of prices of specific goods and services in a particular

> time. Two, we see what was 'hot' in a time span. Three, we get a

> feel for the details of various goods and services--details we might

> not realize for today. For instance, way back a new house came with

> _nothing_--things like a stove and heater were optional. Old TVs

> required a rooftop antenna, which may have been an extra charge and

> not cheap to install.

>

> Then we can read about things that have relevance today. For

> instance, today we may be arguing whether to tear down some major

> building---in the past we'll find an article arguing whether or not to

> build it in the first place. (Sometimes the underlying issues remain

> the same!)

>

> In the want ads, we'll see that jobs were separated for men and women

> (in some locales also separated by white and colored). We'll see jobs

> that no longer exist.

>

> In the business pages, we'll see an emphasis on "nuts and bolts"

> smokestack industries, including literally companies that makes nuts

> and bolts. We'll see ads by such companies, with the plant in the

> background proudly spewing lots of smoke from its stacks--a sign back

> then of prosperity.

>


Barbara Tuchman wrote about history; her stuff was very, very good
because she looked at inventory and grocery lists as part of her
research. She also wnet to the areas and walked. This was important
when she wrote about WWI; the gerenals were far away from the fighting
and couldn't know what was going on until hours later when a courier
arrived with a piece of paper.

/BAH
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28395 is a reply to message #28361] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jmfbahciv is currently offline  jmfbahciv
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Mike Spencer wrote:
>

> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

>

>> One scary thing about on-line sources is that it may be updated at any

>> time. that may be good in correcting real errors, but bad in changing

>> history.

>

> My 1910 Brittanica (with the two-volume update for after WW I in 192x)

> is a badly battered & tattered and there are no articles on border

> gateway protocol or neural nets or Justin Bieber. But it's hours and

> hours of fascinating reading. Even the lists of authors of the heavier

> articles are an intriguing read.

>

> Sic transit gloria mundi.

>

when the Southboro library was throwing out all those books, it included
update volumes. I took one from 1939 and another of 1941 or 42. Then
I compared what was written about Hitler. That was an eye-opener.

/BAH
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28397 is a reply to message #28394] Wed, 12 December 2012 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, jmfbahciv wrote:

>> In the business pages, we'll see an emphasis on "nuts and bolts"

>> smokestack industries, including literally companies that makes nuts

>> and bolts. We'll see ads by such companies, with the plant in the

>> background proudly spewing lots of smoke from its stacks--a sign back

>> then of prosperity.

>>

>

> Barbara Tuchman wrote about history; her stuff was very, very good

> because she looked at inventory and grocery lists as part of her

> research. She also wnet to the areas and walked. This was important

> when she wrote about WWI; the gerenals were far away from the fighting

> and couldn't know what was going on until hours later when a courier

> arrived with a piece of paper.

>

That's what a lot of intelligence gathering is about, collecting mundane
and readily available information, and then putting it together with other
bits to see patterns. They may later need to send spies in to get
specific information, but it's the routine information that points them
there.

Even employment ads may reveal things, why is that company suddenly in
need of XXX skill?

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28398 is a reply to message #28395] Wed, 12 December 2012 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, jmfbahciv wrote:

> Mike Spencer wrote:

>>

>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

>>

>>> One scary thing about on-line sources is that it may be updated at any

>>> time. that may be good in correcting real errors, but bad in changing

>>> history.

>>

>> My 1910 Brittanica (with the two-volume update for after WW I in 192x)

>> is a badly battered & tattered and there are no articles on border

>> gateway protocol or neural nets or Justin Bieber. But it's hours and

>> hours of fascinating reading. Even the lists of authors of the heavier

>> articles are an intriguing read.

>>

>> Sic transit gloria mundi.

>>

> when the Southboro library was throwing out all those books, it included

> update volumes. I took one from 1939 and another of 1941 or 42. Then

> I compared what was written about Hitler. That was an eye-opener.

>

I keep the September 1939 issue of National Geographic handy. (The book
sales here no longer want the magazine, or any magazines, but it's so
popular and people felt some obligation to keep it, that for a long time
it was a readily available magazine from the past.) Everything is normal
(and they say ont he cover the photos are "natural color") no expectation
of something about to happen, you can take the Cunard line to Europe.

And then it all changed.

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28399 is a reply to message #28299] Wed, 12 December 2012 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stan Barr is currently offline  Stan Barr
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:41:51 -0500, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 12/11/2012 3:37 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote:

>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

>>

>>> Going through reels of microfilm is a pain and I don't think it's done

>>> much anymore. But there's a great deal of knowledge available only

>>> through that medium.

>>

>> When I was a kid, my mom would drag me off to large research

>> libraries where she would work on her genealogy. While she did

>> that, I would often scan through reels of old newspapers on

>> microfilm, skipping everything but the comics.

>>

>

> I sometimes get so fascinated by the old stuff, including the

> advertising, that I forget what I was looking for in the first place.

>


Old adverts _are_ fascinating...I love browsing old radio books and
magazines.

There's a whole industry of buying up old books cutting them up and
selling the adverts and illustrations. You see a lot on eBay.

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr plan.b .at. dsl .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28421 is a reply to message #28299] Wed, 12 December 2012 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Scheible is currently offline  Patrick Scheible
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Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:

> On 12/11/2012 3:37 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote:

>> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

>>

>>> Going through reels of microfilm is a pain and I don't think it's done

>>> much anymore. But there's a great deal of knowledge available only

>>> through that medium.

>>

>> When I was a kid, my mom would drag me off to large research

>> libraries where she would work on her genealogy. While she did

>> that, I would often scan through reels of old newspapers on

>> microfilm, skipping everything but the comics.

>>

>

> I sometimes get so fascinated by the old stuff, including the

> advertising, that I forget what I was looking for in the first place.


That's one problem with the online archives of newspapers etc. They
archive the stories, not the advertisements. You can often learn a lot
from ads.

-- Patrick
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28423 is a reply to message #28298] Wed, 12 December 2012 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Scheible is currently offline  Patrick Scheible
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Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:

> On 12/11/2012 3:12 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>> On Dec 11, 1:42 pm, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>>

>>>> Yes. however "hard-copy" encyclopedias are now a thing of the past I

>>>> believe

>>>

>>> Probably better for it. I, like probably many others here, got sold a

>>> set of encyclopedias when my wife and I were newlyweds. The saleslady

>>> had us seeing visions of happy children clustered around the

>>> encyclopedia doing their homework. After that we naturally bought the

>>> update volume every year, waiting for the kids to come along and get old

>>> enough to actually use the thing, as it got farther and farther out of

>>> date. I think we finally trashed it about 20 years ago - just got tired

>>> of lugging it when we moved and short on shelf space.

>>

>> Those old encyclopedias were very helpful for kids doing homework and

>> research.

>>

>> Schools tended to discourage their use because they would rather have

>> students get their information from actual specific books, rather than

>> a generalized version in the encylcopedia.

>>

>> As an aside, there are still kids sitting at a table in the public

>> library next to a pile of books, writing down notes by hand in a

>> spiral bound notebook.

>>

>>

>> There is, of course, a ton of information available on-line. But the

>> troubling thing is that there's far, far more information that is not

>> on-line, especially going back some years before it was common to

>> record entire books and newspapers on-line.

>>

>> Going through reels of microfilm is a pain and I don't think it's done

>> much anymore. But there's a great deal of knowledge available only

>> through that medium.

>

> Some of the film is being scanned and put online. For example the US

> censuses are now available in image form from various

> sources. Unfortunately, I see Google has stopped scanning old

> newspapers from microfilm. What archive stuff is available is very

> helpful, I wish they'd continue.


Trouble is, scanning the microfilm does tend to piss off the company
that did the more difficult work of photographing the original documents
and expected to be able to sell their microfilm for the next 50 years.
They have copyright law on their side.

-- Patrick
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28425 is a reply to message #28382] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
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"Peter Flass" <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ka9ug6$dom$1@dont-email.me...
> On 12/12/2012 12:21 AM, Michael Black wrote:

>

>> THere hasn't been a month since I was born that the magazine hasnt'

>> arrived each month. And once I could read, mosto of the time I'd look at

>> the photos, and just read the captions.

>

> Especially the exotic native women in traditional dress?

>


.... or traditional undress??? ;-)

--

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28426 is a reply to message #28343] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 12:21 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> I hope they've improved the resolution and functionality over the set

>> I purchased.  Had I purchased it full price at retail I would've been

>> very disappointed.

>

> I find it hard to believe they'd go back and rescan the older issues, but

> who knows.  If the pictures aren't good resolution, that's hardly in favor

> of scrapping the paper magazines.


They probably scanned them at a higher resolution (not hard to do),
but for whatever reason made their CD-ROM copy in a lower resolution.
Hopefully they'll do better in a future release.

I was gonna speculate that they did low-res to preserve the value of
the hard copy, but there are so many old N/G's out there that they
have very little value. My library got rid of its own collection for
25c/issue, then free. They also had bound volumes, but these did not
contain any ads.



>> I think back in the 1950s they had to hand paint the Kodachrome

>> images--they could not directly reproduce them from the slide.  Later

>> on the photos had a much more natural look to them.

>

> I think it was earlier.  I'm not sure when they went to full color

> photography.


The WW II issues were mostly b&w. I think they had some color
pictures using various methods going way back. A 1954 issue is mostly
color, but not all.


> I seem to recall it wasn't just lack of color film, but maybe that black

> and white didn't need as much fussing as color originally did, and if

> someone was off in darkest Africa or Antarctica for the summer, they

> couldn't get the color film developed fast enough?


Incidentally, in a 1954 issue I happen to have handy, there is a
spread on Africa, and both Ektachromes and Kodachromes were used.

B&W was much easier to handle and process than color, and much
cheaper, too. Kodachrome originally was extremely slow, ASA 10, and
lens were slower, too. So, its usage was limited to still subjects in
bright light unless cumbersome flash units were used. Ektachrome was
apparently faster (and easier to process), per wikip.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28427 is a reply to message #28379] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 7:42 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

> All to _Time_ is online back to volume 1 issue 1 in 1923, also free to

> subscribers.


Originally back issues were free. However, they only had the
reformatted text of an article, not associated photos, and no ads. It
would be neat to see the magazine as it was originally published.


> My one complaint about the pay sites is that they charge fairly hefty

> fees (IMHO) for even small articles.  $5.00 for a two-paragraph

> newspaper article seems a little excessive.


One problem with the above is that an index will show a reference, and
the article turns out to be merely a few unimportant sentences--for
which you just wasted $5. For instance, an article on IBM might be
"IBM signed a lease for 25,000 square feet of office space in the
Jones Bldg in Mt. Kisco, NY".

(However, as mentioned, the announcement of the disk drive appeared as
one or two sentences in the NYT.)
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28428 is a reply to message #28426] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> On Dec 12, 12:21 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

>>> I hope they've improved the resolution and functionality over the set

>>> I purchased.  Had I purchased it full price at retail I would've been

>>> very disappointed.

>>

>> I find it hard to believe they'd go back and rescan the older issues, but

>> who knows.  If the pictures aren't good resolution, that's hardly in favor

>> of scrapping the paper magazines.

>

> They probably scanned them at a higher resolution (not hard to do),

> but for whatever reason made their CD-ROM copy in a lower resolution.

> Hopefully they'll do better in a future release.

>

That's true, especially if they began with actual CDs.

The sets now are DVD. The Rolling Stone set I bought forty years of it,
is on 3 or 4 DVDs. If they started with CDs, they'd either have a really
large number of them, or cut back on the resolution.


>

>

>>> I think back in the 1950s they had to hand paint the Kodachrome

>>> images--they could not directly reproduce them from the slide.  Later

>>> on the photos had a much more natural look to them.

>>

>> I think it was earlier.  I'm not sure when they went to full color

>> photography.

>

> The WW II issues were mostly b&w. I think they had some color

> pictures using various methods going way back. A 1954 issue is mostly

> color, but not all.

>

>

The September 1939 issue has mostly black and white, but there are some
color pictures, I'm not sure if they are still colorizing them by hand.
Some look "real", though not the colors we saw later, others look like
they may have been colorized, but that's a judgement of mine, rather than
any real recognition.

>> I seem to recall it wasn't just lack of color film, but maybe that black

>> and white didn't need as much fussing as color originally did, and if

>> someone was off in darkest Africa or Antarctica for the summer, they

>> couldn't get the color film developed fast enough?

>

> Incidentally, in a 1954 issue I happen to have handy, there is a

> spread on Africa, and both Ektachromes and Kodachromes were used.

>

> B&W was much easier to handle and process than color, and much

> cheaper, too. Kodachrome originally was extremely slow, ASA 10, and

> lens were slower, too. So, its usage was limited to still subjects in

> bright light unless cumbersome flash units were used. Ektachrome was

> apparently faster (and easier to process), per wikip.

>

There's probably a book out about the phogography of the magazine. Not
"famous photographs" but the equipment and film used over the ages.

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28429 is a reply to message #28381] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <ka9tsb$ag5$1@dont-email.me>, on 12/12/2012
at 07:45 AM, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> said:

> On 12/11/2012 8:45 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>> For instance, way back a new house came with

>> _nothing_--things like a stove and heater were optional. Old TVs

>> required a rooftop antenna, which may have been an extra charge and

>> not cheap to install.


> Especially after you fall off the roof and have all those medical

> bills.


Besides, in the US there is no more analog TV broadcasting, and the
digital receivers are more finicky, so if you don't have cable you
still may need an outdoor antenna.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

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Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28430 is a reply to message #28377] Wed, 12 December 2012 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shmuel (Seymour J.) M is currently offline  Shmuel (Seymour J.) M
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In <ka9tf3$8cf$1@dont-email.me>, on 12/12/2012
at 07:38 AM, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> said:

> Good to know, because (AFAIK) Datamation is not yet online and it

> noted a lot of events that are now historic(al).


ITYM hysterical; they ran a lot of humor[1] in between the more
serious articles. If you have a copy of "Faith, Hope and Parity" then
you know whereof I speak.

[1] One of their humorous articles is to blame for the word
"nybble".

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
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Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28431 is a reply to message #28381] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 7:45 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>> In the want ads, we'll see that jobs were separated for men and women

>

> For some reason I was looking at want ads the other day and flashed on

> this.  It wasn't all that long ago.


My local paper did this years ago. It also had a section "MEN &
WOMEN" meaning the employer didn't care. But not many jobs were
listed under that.

Programming jobs were listed under Men, though I think even in the
1960s some companies would have considered a woman for such jobs,
especially if she had a math degree. In the later 1960s it was hard
to find programmers, so companies had to be more open-minded. (Not
sure about the 1950s, many larger or upscale companies were very rigid
back then, especially for professional positions*). Women were part
of programming right from the start. Indeed, it was thought women
would make better programmers because they could focus on the minute
detail required in machine language or crude assembly language work.

*For higher-end professional positions, while the company was
interviewing the man, an executive's wife would take out the
candidate's wife to lunch and check her out. Even in the 1960s
companies expected an employee's wife to fit their expectations. A TV
show spoofed that, "Ocassional Wife". I'm not sure a mere staff
programmer would be subjected to this treatment, but a manager of
programming would be. Back then companies expected employees' wives
to support and also pressure their husbands to work hard to get
bonuses and promotions.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28432 is a reply to message #28382] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 7:56 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>> THere hasn't been a month since I was born that the magazine hasnt'

>> arrived each month. And once I could read, mosto of the time I'd look at

>> the photos, and just read the captions.

>

> Especially the exotic native women in traditional dress?


Back then parents would freak out if their son had or even looked at a
Playboy. But they didn't seem to mind the Geographic.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28433 is a reply to message #28379] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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"Peter Flass" <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ka9tn1$9of$1@dont-email.me...
> On 12/11/2012 8:38 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>>

>> I don't know if other newspapers are available. One downside about my

>> town's paper is that there is no index, one has to know the date and

>> serially search through the microfilm reel of the associated date

>> range. Sometimes minor news articles took a day or two to appear.

>

> All to _Time_ is online back to volume 1 issue 1 in 1923, also free to

> subscribers.

>

> My one complaint about the pay sites is that they charge fairly hefty fees

> (IMHO) for even small articles. $5.00 for a two-paragraph newspaper

> article seems a little excessive.

>


The New Yorker magazine has *all* its issues online back to 1920's, free to
use for *subscribers*.

--

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28434 is a reply to message #28394] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 9:35 am, jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:

> Barbara Tuchman wrote about history; her stuff was very, very good

> because she looked at inventory and grocery lists as part of her

> research.  She also wnet to the areas and walked.  This was important

> when she wrote about WWI; the gerenals were far away from the fighting

> and couldn't know what was going on until hours later when a courier

> arrived with a piece of paper.


It was crude, but in WW II, they did have radios and telephones on the
battlefield. An article in the RCA history describes developing and
building such sets for vehicles, including the merits of AM vs FM (FM
won).

They also used punched card machines in trucks as mobile record
keeping units, though these were more in the rear lines.

In addition to EAM equipment, IBM built some advanced relay
calculators for ballistic tables, the ASCC for Harvard and the Navy;
as well as some weapons (rifles, I think.)
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28435 is a reply to message #28429] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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"Shmuel (Seymour J.)Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:50c895a9$49$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net...
> In <ka9tsb$ag5$1@dont-email.me>, on 12/12/2012

> at 07:45 AM, Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> said:

>

>> On 12/11/2012 8:45 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>>> For instance, way back a new house came with

>>> _nothing_--things like a stove and heater were optional. Old TVs

>>> required a rooftop antenna, which may have been an extra charge and

>>> not cheap to install.

>

>> Especially after you fall off the roof and have all those medical

>> bills.

>

> Besides, in the US there is no more analog TV broadcasting,


Same with Australia.

> and the digital receivers are more finicky,


Nope, much less, actually.

> so if you don't have cable you still may need an outdoor antenna.


Nope, most who needed an outdoor antenna with analog
don’t now with digital.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28436 is a reply to message #28397] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 10:16 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> That's what a lot of intelligence gathering is about, collecting mundane

> and readily available information, and then putting it together with other

> bits to see patterns.  They may later need to send spies in to get

> specific information, but it's the routine information that points them

> there.

> Even employment ads may reveal things, why is that company suddenly in

> need of XXX skill?


During WW II, soldiers and defense plant workers were constantly
reminded to say NOTHING about what they did for the above reason. For
instance, a reference for making or shipping 'winter coats' could
indicate an offensive in a cold region.

Warner Bros/Looney Toons produced a humorous cartoon series, "Pvt
Snafu", as a morale booster, safe, and security reminder. I recommend
it. The dialogue, some of it in a cute rhyme, was written by Dr.
Seuss.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28437 is a reply to message #28398] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 10:21 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

> I keep the September 1939 issue of National Geographic handy.  (The book

> sales here no longer want the magazine, or any magazines, but it's so

> popular and people felt some obligation to keep it, that for a long time

> it was a readily available magazine from the past.)  Everything is normal

> (and they say ont he cover the photos are "natural color") no expectation

> of something about to happen, you can take the Cunard line to Europe.

> And then it all changed.


The N/G wasn't a news magazine and had relatively little focus on
current events or politics. Their articles likely had a long lead
time.

In 1939 tensions were very high the world over and people knew war
could spread at any time. Parts of the world were already at war,
such as Japan in China, and the Germans on the move in Eastern
Europe.

What surprised me was how high world tensions were way back in 1910,
well before WW I broke out. Lots of articles on grievances by some
countries, and other countries and diplomats trying to keep the peace.

For instance, a hundred years ago today (12/12/1912) there was a front
page article on peace talks in London on Greek fighting. Also, the
French were concerned that an attack on Servia by Austria was
immient. There was a big article on Britain's desire for three more
battleships (dreadnoughts) and its defense issues.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28438 is a reply to message #28399] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 11:20 am, Stan Barr <pla...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> There's a whole industry of buying up old books cutting them up and

> selling the adverts and illustrations.  You see a lot on eBay.


A while back I picked up a bunch of old IBM ads on e-bay. Neat
stuff. My favorite is a photo of various punch cards on a street,
"IBM leadership in action...Parade with a purpose--Today, an almost
endless parade of IBM punched cards serves business, industry, and
government in widely varied roles--as vital aids in routine record
keeping, as checks and money orders, airline tickets, utility bills,
insurance premium notices, and many, many other kids of accounting
documents. . . . IBM's on-the-job experience and ocntinued progress
in advanced equipment designs are helping American industry work
better and faster--at less cost."

In earlier ads IBM proudly displayed its NRA Blue Eagle "We do our
Part".

I also picked up an old book published by IBM of Thomas J. Watson Sr's
speeches. Most were empty platitudes. There's a more recent book of
essays from a series of university talks by his son, that has some
good ideas in it.

The ads I got were modestly priced. Today's prices seem higher.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28440 is a reply to message #28423] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Dec 12, 12:33 pm, Patrick Scheible <k...@zipcon.net> wrote:

> Trouble is, scanning the microfilm does tend to piss off the company

> that did the more difficult work of photographing the original documents

> and expected to be able to sell their microfilm for the next 50 years.

> They have copyright law on their side.


Presumably, the scanners did get copyright permission from whoever
owns it, be it the microfilm company or the orignal publication.

The NYT display says, "Reproduced with permission of the copyright
owner. Further reproduction prohibited without permission."
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28441 is a reply to message #28361] Wed, 12 December 2012 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patrick Scheible is currently offline  Patrick Scheible
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Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

>

>> One scary thing about on-line sources is that it may be updated at any

>> time. that may be good in correcting real errors, but bad in changing

>> history.

>

> My 1910 Brittanica (with the two-volume update for after WW I in 192x)

> is a badly battered & tattered and there are no articles on border

> gateway protocol or neural nets or Justin Bieber. But it's hours and

> hours of fascinating reading. Even the lists of authors of the heavier

> articles are an intriguing read.

>

> Sic transit gloria mundi.


The Brittanica was great in those days, with some of the top experts in
their fields writing the articles. In later years, especially post
1960s, the article authors were more junior faculty. Not necessarily
bad or wrong, but often not as well-written.

-- Patrick
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28442 is a reply to message #28428] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hancock4 is currently offline  hancock4
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On Dec 12, 1:19 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:


> The September 1939 issue has mostly black and white, but there are some

> color pictures, I'm not sure if they are still colorizing them by hand.

> Some look "real", though not the colors we saw later, others look like

> they may have been colorized, but that's a judgement of mine, rather than

> any real recognition.


My reference toward coloring by hand had to do with printing, not the
original photograph. That is, in the 1950s, they had a real color
photograph, be it Ektachrome, Kodachrome, or some other process. But
apparently printing back then could not easily reproduce from a color
slide (I don't know why), and to print it they had to hand color a b&w
image.

I think in the 1960s they were able to reproduce directly from the
slide.

Somewhere in the late 1970s they came up with a way to _inexpensively_
print from color slides. (I think it was laser scanning). Mass
magazines and newspapers began to print many pictures in color (also
known as "fun, food, fall, fires). Hobby magazines (eg Railpace)
could print pictures in color.
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28444 is a reply to message #28441] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Dec 12, 1:57 pm, Patrick Scheible <k...@zipcon.net> wrote:
> The Brittanica was great in those days, with some of the top experts in

> their fields writing the articles.  In later years, especially post

> 1960s, the article authors were more junior faculty.  Not necessarily

> bad or wrong, but often not as well-written.


As it happens, the NYT of 100 years ago (12/12/1912) had a full page
ad for the Britannica, 11th edition. It was printed on 90% rag India
paper imported from England, strong and opaque.

"The Greatest Book in the World and the Most Successful---Good for a
Lifetime, and Equal to a Library of 500 Selected Books"
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28445 is a reply to message #28432] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus is currently offline  GreyMaus
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On 2012-12-12, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Dec 12, 7:56 am, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>>> THere hasn't been a month since I was born that the magazine hasnt'

>>> arrived each month. And once I could read, mosto of the time I'd look at

>>> the photos, and just read the captions.

>>

>> Especially the exotic native women in traditional dress?

>

> Back then parents would freak out if their son had or even looked at a

> Playboy. But they didn't seem to mind the Geographic.


Geographic photos were of all age groups. More peparation for _real_
life.


--
maus
.
.
....
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28446 is a reply to message #28394] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus is currently offline  GreyMaus
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On 2012-12-12, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>> On Dec 11, 7:41 pm, Peter Flass <Peter_Fl...@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>>

>>> I sometimes get so fascinated by the old stuff, including the

>>> advertising, that I forget what I was looking for in the first place.

>>

>> Absolutely.

>>

>> The advertising is very informative in its own right. For one, we get

>> an idea of prices of specific goods and services in a particular

>> time. Two, we see what was 'hot' in a time span. Three, we get a

>> feel for the details of various goods and services--details we might

>> not realize for today. For instance, way back a new house came with

>> _nothing_--things like a stove and heater were optional. Old TVs

>> required a rooftop antenna, which may have been an extra charge and

>> not cheap to install.

>>

>> Then we can read about things that have relevance today. For

>> instance, today we may be arguing whether to tear down some major

>> building---in the past we'll find an article arguing whether or not to

>> build it in the first place. (Sometimes the underlying issues remain

>> the same!)

>>

>> In the want ads, we'll see that jobs were separated for men and women

>> (in some locales also separated by white and colored). We'll see jobs

>> that no longer exist.

>>

>> In the business pages, we'll see an emphasis on "nuts and bolts"

>> smokestack industries, including literally companies that makes nuts

>> and bolts. We'll see ads by such companies, with the plant in the

>> background proudly spewing lots of smoke from its stacks--a sign back

>> then of prosperity.

>>

>

> Barbara Tuchman wrote about history; her stuff was very, very good

> because she looked at inventory and grocery lists as part of her

> research. She also wnet to the areas and walked. This was important

> when she wrote about WWI; the gerenals were far away from the fighting

> and couldn't know what was going on until hours later when a courier

> arrived with a piece of paper.

>


It was planned that way so plans would not be changed by misleading news
in the early stages of an operation.

(An example was when Von Kluck's sweep around Paris was reduced in force
by troops being diverted to resist the Russians invasion of east Prussia,
by the time they arrived there, the invasion had been stopped, but the loss
to the Western thrust led to the setback on the Marne)
(I was reading recently that that Russian invasion in 1914 was aimed at moving
the Eastern German frontier back to the Oder-Niesse, as now, but as the Russian
armies then were generalled, and largely officered, by ethnic Germans, there would
have been no ethnic cleansing as was in 1944-45)(Forget the source)

Yes, Tuchman is a good history writer.


--
maus
.
.
....
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28447 is a reply to message #28433] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, Charles Richmond wrote:

> "Peter Flass" <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

> news:ka9tn1$9of$1@dont-email.me...

>> On 12/11/2012 8:38 PM, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

>>>

>>> I don't know if other newspapers are available. One downside about my

>>> town's paper is that there is no index, one has to know the date and

>>> serially search through the microfilm reel of the associated date

>>> range. Sometimes minor news articles took a day or two to appear.

>>

>> All to _Time_ is online back to volume 1 issue 1 in 1923, also free to

>> subscribers.

>>

>> My one complaint about the pay sites is that they charge fairly hefty fees

>> (IMHO) for even small articles. $5.00 for a two-paragraph newspaper

>> article seems a little excessive.

>>

>

> The New Yorker magazine has *all* its issues online back to 1920's, free to

> use for *subscribers*.

>

I think The Atlantic does the same. I know I registered at some point.

On one hand, it means you have to subscribe, on the other if you already
subscribe you get access for free.

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28448 is a reply to message #28434] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Black is currently offline  Michael Black
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> On Dec 12, 9:35 am, jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:

>

>> Barbara Tuchman wrote about history; her stuff was very, very good

>> because she looked at inventory and grocery lists as part of her

>> research.  She also wnet to the areas and walked.  This was important

>> when she wrote about WWI; the gerenals were far away from the fighting

>> and couldn't know what was going on until hours later when a courier

>> arrived with a piece of paper.

>

> It was crude, but in WW II, they did have radios and telephones on the

> battlefield. An article in the RCA history describes developing and

> building such sets for vehicles, including the merits of AM vs FM (FM

> won).

>

WWU, which is what Barbara Tuchman is known for writing about, ahd only
rudimentary radio. If nothing else, a "good" radio was so bulky that I
think many receivers were reduced to "crystal radios", and everyone still
thought the higher frequencies were useless, so they wrre all jammed into
a small space and required really long antennas. Transmitters were
probably mostly still spark gaps, which were really inefficient, and put
out a broad signal. I suspect in many cases, radio in WWI was one way,
likely from the back to the front. I think they were still working out how
to use radio in war (just like the airplane).

On the other hand, WWI caused Howard Armstrong to create the
superheterodyne receiver, which is the foundation of so much that came
later.

In WWII, radio had a quarter century to develop and not only was there a
more concrete definition of the role radio could play in war, but the
technology had improved. Other than transistors, there wasn't a lot of
difference between radio use in WWII and radio use in the Viet Nam era.
Well, probably radar improved, but that's only because WWII caused radio
to be improved, and maybe some of the work wasn't finished by the end of
that war.

Michael
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28450 is a reply to message #28434] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:31:49 -0800 (PST)
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> On Dec 12, 9:35 am, jmfbahciv <See.ab...@aol.com> wrote:

>

>> Barbara Tuchman wrote about history; her stuff was very, very good

>> because she looked at inventory and grocery lists as part of her

>> research.  She also wnet to the areas and walked.  This was important

>> when she wrote about WWI; the gerenals were far away from the fighting

>> and couldn't know what was going on until hours later when a courier

>> arrived with a piece of paper.

>

> It was crude, but in WW II, they did have radios and telephones on the

> battlefield. An article in the RCA history describes developing and

> building such sets for vehicles, including the merits of AM vs FM (FM

> won).


My father was a paratrooper in the Royal Corps of Signals during
WWII, he was dropped behind enemy lines carrying radio equipment more than
once. I could be misrememberering here but I'm pretty sure I heard him
describe it as "Jumping out of an aeroplane with 90lbs of radio gear on my
back" or words to that effect. He also told me that "fit to drop" was the
highest standard of fitness in the Signals Corps, which given the other
description is not too surprising - I wouldn't care to shoulder a 90lb
backpack never mind jump out of an aeroplane wearing one.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28451 is a reply to message #28430] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
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> ITYM hysterical; they ran a lot of humor[1] in between the more

> serious articles. If you have a copy of "Faith, Hope and Parity" then

> you know whereof I speak.


My copy just arrived today, plenty of excellent reading.

Used copies are susprisingly cheap from the usual sources.

I'm still looking for a copy of "The Lost Code", by Dan McCracken, a
spoof of Sullivan's Lost Chord that starts "Seated one day at the
console ..."

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28452 is a reply to message #28444] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:

> On Dec 12, 1:57=A0pm, Patrick Scheible <k...@zipcon.net> wrote:

>

>> The Brittanica was great in those days, with some of the top experts in

>> their fields writing the articles. In later years, especially post

>> 1960s, the article authors were more junior faculty. Not necessarily

>> bad or wrong, but often not as well-written.

>

> As it happens, the NYT of 100 years ago (12/12/1912) had a full page

> ad for the Britannica, 11th edition. It was printed on 90% rag India

> paper imported from England, strong and opaque.

>

> "The Greatest Book in the World and the Most Successful---Good for a

> Lifetime, and Equal to a Library of 500 Selected Books"


The women's dorm at Dalhousie University has a formal parlor
decorated in what I take to be high Edwardian -- heavy, elegant
furniture, German hand-wrought fireplace funiture, marble busts. And
there is a set of Brittanica, same edition as mine. Only this is the
version that a wealthy patron would give to her alma mater: leather
bound, printed on Bible paper, shelved flat in a rosewood cabinet,
each volume on its own shelf. Due to the thin paper, volumes are half
or less in thickness compared to the cloth & board-bound version.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28457 is a reply to message #28269] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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In article <1bfw3cxusn.fsf@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer) writes:

> cb@mer.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) writes:

>

>> Yes, accuracy in emulation leaves a lot to be desired - but I'll just

>> leave this here anyway:

>>

>> http://www.masswerk.at/google60/

>>

>> // Christian

>

> This is beautiful.


What is it supposed to do? On my machine it just puts up a title
page and hangs. Does it not like Seamonkey, perhaps?

--
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Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28460 is a reply to message #28364] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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In article <slrnkcgkju.20u.greymausg@gmaus.org>, greymausg@mail.com
(greymausg) writes:

> On 2012-12-12, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:

>

>> I think someone from Bell's family was on the Geographic board of

>> directors. I believe the Bell ads ceased before Divestiture.

>

> Grosvenor?(sp).... There was a lot of hassle for years between the

> really commercial magazines and NG, which was sort of a family club.

> My mother, who had worked in the US, greatly admired the US work

> attitude, used bring home secondhand NG whenever she visited Dublin.

>

> Gro* were inlaws of Bells, or summat like that. The Duke of

> Westminster's family name, AFAIK, is like that, one of the

> wealthiest people in the UK.


I seem to recall seeing a hyphenated melding of the two, i.e.
Bell-Grosvenor.

--
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Re: Search Google, 1960:s-style [message #28461 is a reply to message #28329] Wed, 12 December 2012 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1212112256190.28860@darkstar.example.org>,
et472@ncf.ca (Michael Black) writes:

> (as I've mentioned, and someone else mentioned just a couple of weeks

> ago here, a webpage isn't a magazine trying to win the attention of

> the passerby at a newsstand).


A lot of web page designers (many of whom are thinly disguised
marketroids) would disagree with you.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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