Megalextoria
Retro computing and gaming, sci-fi books, tv and movies and other geeky stuff.

Home » Digital Archaeology » Computer Arcana » Computer Folklore » SUSE Reviving Usenet
Show: Today's Messages :: Show Polls :: Message Navigator
E-mail to friend 
Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411365] Wed, 29 September 2021 10:04 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.

Anyone can set up a news server with their own hierarchies. In fact some
organizations still do just that. I am considering how to run my own
NNTP rig on a VPS with sci.crypt on the roster. I also am thinking of
how to set up a Bitmessage <--> Usenet gateway that mirrors Bitmessage
chans as Usenet hierarchies.

It seems SUSE realizes that Usenet is a treasure.

Quote:

[ https://events.opensuse.org/conferences/oSLO/program/proposa ls/3028]

Reviving Usenet
Presented by:
jsevans
from Suse

I'm a training engineer and open-source enthusiast at SUSE in Prague.
No video of the event yet, sorry!

I am located in Prague Time zone: CEST

Abstract:

The Big-8 newsgroups are those that begin with comp., misc., news.,
rec., sci., soc., talk., and humanities. They have been the backbone of
much of the Usenet since the 1980's.

These newsgroups are maintained by the Big-8 Management Board. In 2015,
a new board was voted in. The term for a board member is 18 months. By
late 2017 the entire board had either resigned or let their terms
expire. Since then, no new news groups have been created, no abandoned
newsgroups have been removed, and no other maintenance have been done.

This was surely a sign that Usenet is dying.

In late 2019, two openSUSE members came together on Reddit and began
working with the former board members to put in a new board and to draw
attention again to the benefits of Usenet. There is no reason for it to
die. In fact, it should be protected as one of the most important living
artifacts of Internet history. Not in a museum, but a living active
organ of the internet.

This is our story to bring back the Big-8 Management Board and to breath
new life into Usenet.


--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411366 is a reply to message #411365] Wed, 29 September 2021 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
> and the like.

It is also obscure because:

1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
provided package of features when one purchased an account. If
one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not
already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access,
then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people
on the 'net' of Usenet

2) the growth of "the web" began over time to overshadow many of the
older 'net protocols, to the point that many users today think of
"the web" as "the internet". And again, for much the same reason
as #1, if the new user did not alreay know of Usenet, they had
little to no possibilty of discovery

3) around the same time as #1 and #2 were happening, Usenet was also
massively overrun by spammers hawking everything imaginable.
That, combined with the trolls, likely led some who were using
Usenet to switch to other forums (web forums, etc.) which promised
some level of "filtering" out of the trash. Yes, real newsreaders
provide kill/score files, but for a new Usenet entrant, having to
deal with building out over time a kill/score file to filter the
small bit of signal from a large amount of noise meant that of the
few who did discover Usenet in one way or another, only a subset
of those new folks remained around after some short length of
time.

The spam problem has largely gone away (mostly) -- due to the users
also going away, if all the users came back, so too would the spam
likely follow.

Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411367 is a reply to message #411365] Wed, 29 September 2021 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:

> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead.

There is a branch of USENET that's alive and kicking that funds a
number of commercial NNTP servers with enormous retention times (multiple
years), a large catalogue of binary groups and some very odd posting
arrangements. But that's not really USENET it's file sharing by NNTP.

I keep getting tempted to run up a text only server here but
managing misbehaving users is a PITA.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411369 is a reply to message #411365] Wed, 29 September 2021 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faux_dameron is currently offline  faux_dameron
Messages: 43
Registered: May 2020
Karma: 0
Member
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:

> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.

I'm glad you liked my presentation. I've been trying to get more people
to use it. I've written a couple of "for newbs" tutorials and I've gotten
some good feedback.

I'm hoping to do some more projects in the future to shed light on Usenet
as something more than just a file-sharing platform.

__
JE
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411370 is a reply to message #411369] Wed, 29 September 2021 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:56:34 -0000 (UTC)
Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
>
>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using
>> Usenet. I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered

That's not really "using": or maybe it is - like drug-user; purely consuming.

>> it dead. It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social
>> media, reddit, and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their
>> addictive behavior modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we
>> will serve the ASCII.
>
> I'm glad you liked my presentation. I've been trying to get more
> people to use it. I've written a couple of "for newbs" tutorials and
> I've gotten some good feedback.
>
> I'm hoping to do some more projects in the future to shed light on
> Usenet as something more than just a file-sharing platform.
>
> __
> JE


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411380 is a reply to message #411365] Wed, 29 September 2021 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Jan Panteltje

On a sunny day (Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500) it happened 711 Spooky Mart
<711@spooky.mart> wrote in <sj1rna$144n$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.
>
> Anyone can set up a news server with their own hierarchies. In fact some
> organizations still do just that. I am considering how to run my own
> NNTP rig on a VPS with sci.crypt on the roster. I also am thinking of
> how to set up a Bitmessage <--> Usenet gateway that mirrors Bitmessage
> chans as Usenet hierarchies.
>
> It seems SUSE realizes that Usenet is a treasure.

I sure hope it is nit an covered up attempt to censor Usenet,
We Need No Control

Youtube is canceling channels with 600,000 subscribers...
https://www.rt.com/news/536068-rt-de-youtube-channel-deleted /
https://www.rt.com/news/536174-youtube-bans-anti-vax/

AND soon you will all need to be chipped like your pet dog to do anything.
Big Brothel will follow and control you, and issue the KILL command if you do not comply

My newsreader still works, see headers, but libforms has changed, so much for Suse.
Running Slackware

Secret message: baaaah

plaintext: <if all else fails use smake signs>
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411392 is a reply to message #411365] Wed, 29 September 2021 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Branimir Maksimovic

On 2021-09-29, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.
>
usenet is not for average JOE. It is for open minded people, and
Google make it accessible which is WRONG, and it's BUGGy client
makes it WORSE.


--

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411397 is a reply to message #411366] Thu, 30 September 2021 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Michael Trew

On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
> Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
> Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
> downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
> anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.

Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
old, for the record.. :)
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411404 is a reply to message #411367] Thu, 30 September 2021 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/29/21 10:25 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>
>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead.
>
> There is a branch of USENET that's alive and kicking that funds a
> number of commercial NNTP servers with enormous retention times (multiple
> years), a large catalogue of binary groups and some very odd posting
> arrangements. But that's not really USENET it's file sharing by NNTP.
>
> I keep getting tempted to run up a text only server here but
> managing misbehaving users is a PITA.
>

Indeed. That's why I am hesitating to set up a open NNTP
server--managing the rabble is a tedious job. I really want to set one
up, but I really do not want to commit to all the daily janitorial work.

If we had Usenet hierarchies that could require proof of work from
clients, sort of like Bitmessage does, or imposed post limits based on
signing keys that require a long time to generate one signing key, that
could mitigate a lot of the spam and trolling.

But then we get into the need for re-factoring client software and all
the associated boondoggle.

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411405 is a reply to message #411369] Thu, 30 September 2021 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/29/21 10:56 AM, Jason Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
>
>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
>> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.
>
> I'm glad you liked my presentation. I've been trying to get more people
> to use it. I've written a couple of "for newbs" tutorials and I've gotten
> some good feedback.
>
> I'm hoping to do some more projects in the future to shed light on Usenet
> as something more than just a file-sharing platform.
>
> __
> JE
>

A slick and highly secure client interface that abstracts away some of
the "clunk" might be a good draw. These days people expect things to be
"appified.

Automatic threading for replies, like text boards and reddit do, would
greatly improve the reading experience, and eliminate the debate about
top posting and bottom posting, since the client could format
automatically and make it fool proof.

Keep plugging away!

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411406 is a reply to message #411370] Thu, 30 September 2021 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/29/21 11:22 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 15:56:34 -0000 (UTC)
> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:04:16 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using
>>> Usenet. I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered
>
> That's not really "using": or maybe it is - like drug-user; purely consuming.

Semantics, shmantix.

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411407 is a reply to message #411392] Thu, 30 September 2021 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/29/21 5:32 PM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2021-09-29, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> I've heard many times that Usenet is dead. I never stopped using Usenet.
>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>> and the like. Let the proles and zombies have their addictive behavior
>> modeling distractions. As for me and my net, we will serve the ASCII.
>>
> usenet is not for average JOE. It is for open minded people, and
> Google make it accessible which is WRONG, and it's BUGGy client
> makes it WORSE.

Google knows how to make a simple thing three orders of magnitude more
complicated.

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411408 is a reply to message #411405] Thu, 30 September 2021 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
> Automatic threading for replies, like text boards and reddit do,
> would greatly improve the reading experience, and eliminate the
> debate about top posting and bottom posting, since the client could
> format automatically and make it fool proof.

Oh ye of little faith.

Don't you know that once you make something "fool proof" that the world
goes and creates a better "fool".
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411417 is a reply to message #411397] Thu, 30 September 2021 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:44:05 -0400, Michael Trew wrote:
>
> On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
>> Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
>> Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
>> downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
>> anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
>
> Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
> text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
> old, for the record.. :)

I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).
--
Andreas
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411421 is a reply to message #411408] Thu, 30 September 2021 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/30/21 8:27 AM, Rich wrote:
> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> Automatic threading for replies, like text boards and reddit do,
>> would greatly improve the reading experience, and eliminate the
>> debate about top posting and bottom posting, since the client could
>> format automatically and make it fool proof.
>
> Oh ye of little faith.
>
> Don't you know that once you make something "fool proof" that the world
> goes and creates a better "fool".
>

I see, said the blind man. True words.

It's as if the gremlin knows a problem has been solved and so it creates
two new ones.

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411423 is a reply to message #411421] Thu, 30 September 2021 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:58:04 -0500
711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:

> It's as if the gremlin knows a problem has been solved and so it creates
> two new ones.

<raises lightning rod>

Gremlins evolve like everything else.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411424 is a reply to message #411366] Thu, 30 September 2021 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usenet is currently offline  usenet
Messages: 556
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>> and the like.
>
> It is also obscure because:
>
> 1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
> provided package of features when one purchased an account. If
> one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not
> already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access,
> then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people
> on the 'net' of Usenet

As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on former New
York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to prosecute ISPs over
alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and gave the major ISPs an excuse
to shut down their NNTP servers entirely back in the mid-aughts.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411425 is a reply to message #411417] Thu, 30 September 2021 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/30/21 11:25 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
> life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).

Radioactive!

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411427 is a reply to message #411424] Thu, 30 September 2021 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it
>>> dead. It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social
>>> media, reddit, and the like.
>>
>> It is also obscure because:
>>
>> 1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
>> provided package of features when one purchased an account. If
>> one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did
>> not already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate
>> access, then there was limited to no discovery on the part of
>> new people on the 'net' of Usenet
>
> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on
> former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to
> prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and
> gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers
> entirely back in the mid-aughts.

That did also have an impact. But consider that had NNTP/Usenet
service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP
accounts, or a major revenue center for the ISP, those same ISP's would
likely not have shut it down, even with the bluster of the NY AG.

The ISP's had probably already targeted NNTP/Usenet service for
termination and were likely simply looking for some reason to shutter
NNTP/Usenet service anyway, and the NY AG provided a convienent reason
at the moment. Had he not done so, they would have likely latched onto
some other reason to turn it off.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411428 is a reply to message #411427] Thu, 30 September 2021 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E. R.

On 30/09/2021 21.26, Rich wrote:
> In sci.crypt Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

....

> That did also have an impact. But consider that had NNTP/Usenet
> service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP
> accounts, or a major revenue center for the ISP, those same ISP's would
> likely not have shut it down, even with the bluster of the NY AG.
>
> The ISP's had probably already targeted NNTP/Usenet service for
> termination and were likely simply looking for some reason to shutter
> NNTP/Usenet service anyway, and the NY AG provided a convienent reason
> at the moment. Had he not done so, they would have likely latched onto
> some other reason to turn it off.
>

Indeed.

My ISP, for instance, since years does not provide email to new clients,
but fortunately has not cancelled the existing accounts. They also
closed our web pages.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411429 is a reply to message #411423] Thu, 30 September 2021 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris M. Thomasson

On 9/30/2021 11:12 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:58:04 -0500
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>
>> It's as if the gremlin knows a problem has been solved and so it creates
>> two new ones.
>
> <raises lightning rod>
>
> Gremlins evolve like everything else.
>


Have you ever fed them past midnight? Ouch. ;^)
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411431 is a reply to message #411429] Thu, 30 September 2021 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 711 Spooky Mart

On 9/30/21 3:16 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/30/2021 11:12 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:58:04 -0500
>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>
>>> It's as if the gremlin knows a problem has been solved and so it creates
>>> two new ones.
>>
>> <raises lightning rod>
>>
>>     Gremlins evolve like everything else.
>>
>
>
> Have you ever fed them past midnight? Ouch. ;^)

Just be sure you don't feed *me* after midnight!

Unless it's pizza, that's ok.

--
████████████████████ ███████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░ ░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░ ░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░ ░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░█████ █░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░ ░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
████████████████████ ███████████████
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411432 is a reply to message #411424] Thu, 30 September 2021 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media,
>>> reddit, and the like.
>>
>> It is also obscure because:
>>
>> 1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
>> provided package of features when one purchased an account. If
>> one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not
>> already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access,
>> then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people
>> on the 'net' of Usenet
>
> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on
> former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to
> prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and
> gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers entirely
> back in the mid-aughts.

I don't remember it quite that way. The complaint was "copyrighted
material" which was all over Usenet at the time.

If someone pointed to child pornography I don't remember it.

All the ISPs dropped Usenet like a hot potato.

--
Dan Espen
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411434 is a reply to message #411417] Thu, 30 September 2021 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:25:46 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:44:05 -0400, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>> On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
>>> Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
>>> Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
>>> downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
>>> anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
>>
>> Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
>> text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
>> old, for the record.. :)
>
> I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
> life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).

40 years for me, and that's more than half of mine!

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411435 is a reply to message #411434] Thu, 30 September 2021 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:

> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:25:46 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:44:05 -0400, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>> On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>> Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
>>>> Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
>>>> downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
>>>> anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
>>>
>>> Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
>>> text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
>>> old, for the record.. :)
>>
>> I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
>> life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).
>
> 40 years for me, and that's more than half of mine!

I'd have to guess, I think it was 79.
I was at Bell Labs.

So, 42 years. I'm old but not old enough.

--
Dan Espen
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411438 is a reply to message #411435] Thu, 30 September 2021 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3156
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
> I'd have to guess, I think it was 79.
> I was at Bell Labs.
>
> So, 42 years. I'm old but not old enough.

not usenet, started with vmshare (predating usenet), TYMSHARE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tymshare
started offering its (VM370) CMS-based online computer conferencing free
to IBM user group SHARE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHARE_(computing)
in Aug1976 as VMSHARE ... archives here
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare

I had deal with TYMSHARE to get monthly tape dump of all VMSHARE (and
later PCSHARE) files for putting up on IBM internal systems and network
.... most difficult time was with IBM lawyers who were concerned that
internal employees would be contaminated with customer information.

I was then blamed for online computer communication on the internal
network (larger than arpanet/internet from just about the beginning
until sometime mid/late 80s) ... folklore is that when corporate
executive committe was told about it, 5of6 wanted to fire me. from IBM
Jargon http://www.comlay.net/ibmjarg.pdf

Tandem Memos - n. Something constructive but hard to control; a fresh of
breath air (sic). That's another Tandem Memos. A phrase to worry middle
management. It refers to the computer-based conference (widely
distributed in 1981) in which many technical personnel expressed
dissatisfaction with the tools available to them at that time, and also
constructively criticized the way products were [are] developed. The
memos are required reading for anyone with a serious interest in quality
products. If you have not seen the memos, try reading the November 1981
Datamation summary.

although there were only about 300 active, claim was there were possibly
25,000 reading, activity had really taken off after I distributed a trip
report about a visit to Jim Gray at Tandem. Summer of 1981, printed
about 300 pages ... prefixed with an executive summary and summary of
the summary, packaged in Tandem 3-ring binders and sent one to each
executive committee member.

Later after leaving IBM in the early 90s, pagesat gave me a full usenet
sat. feed in return for writing SGI+AIX (unix) & MS/DOS sat. modem
drivers and a article for boardwatch magazine. I also had it up on 486
ms/dos machine with waffle.


--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411443 is a reply to message #411427] Fri, 01 October 2021 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 19:26:42 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> In sci.crypt Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:

>> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on
>> former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to
>> prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and
>> gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers
>> entirely back in the mid-aughts.
>
> That did also have an impact. But consider that had NNTP/Usenet
> service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP

Consider also that it was dropped globally not just in the US.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411445 is a reply to message #411435] Fri, 01 October 2021 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Jan Panteltje

On a sunny day (Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:20:38 -0400) it happened Dan Espen
<dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote in <sj5k8p$r02$1@dont-email.me>:

> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:25:46 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:44:05 -0400, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>> > Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
>>>> > Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
>>>> > downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
>>>> > anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
>>>> text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
>>>> old, for the record.. :)
>>>
>>> I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
>>> life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).
>>
>> 40 years for me, and that's more than half of mine!
>
> I'd have to guess, I think it was 79.
> I was at Bell Labs.
>
> So, 42 years. I'm old but not old enough.

OK then, I think I started in 1998 with win98 and trumpet winsock and Free Agent.
But in that same year I think it was I found a CD with SLS Linux.
So as C exercise wrote my own newsreader, had to be a Linux Free Agent like style:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
still using it today.

The interesting thing is that I now have a searchable database of all those postings I found interesting going back to 1998.

As for age, I will be 75 in a few months.
Hey I am still coding and designing electronics :-)
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411452 is a reply to message #411445] Fri, 01 October 2021 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:20:38 -0400) it happened Dan Espen
> <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote in <sj5k8p$r02$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:25:46 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:44:05 -0400, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>> >> Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
>>>> >> Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
>>>> >> downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
>>>> >> anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
>>>> >
>>>> > Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
>>>> > text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
>>>> > old, for the record.. :)
>>>>
>>>> I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
>>>> life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).
>>>
>>> 40 years for me, and that's more than half of mine!
>>
>> I'd have to guess, I think it was 79.
>> I was at Bell Labs.
>>
>> So, 42 years. I'm old but not old enough.
>
> OK then, I think I started in 1998 with win98 and trumpet winsock and Free Agent.
> But in that same year I think it was I found a CD with SLS Linux.
> So as C exercise wrote my own newsreader, had to be a Linux Free Agent like style:
> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
> still using it today.
>
> The interesting thing is that I now have a searchable database of all
> those postings I found interesting going back to 1998.
>
> As for age, I will be 75 in a few months.
> Hey I am still coding and designing electronics :-)
> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html

I got access to the internet circa 1992, a terminal session over dialup
to a Sun sparc station 50. Sometime after that I discovered Usenet.
So I've known about/been lurking in Usenet since circa 1993. But I
likely spent more time lurking than posting back then, as the internet
access was a "work account" that came with all the normal "behave"
legalese that "work accounts" come with. It would be until I got a
personal dialup account before I really started being more active than
a lurker. And the exact time for that is lost to history, but is
likely circa 1996 or 1997. So somewhere from 24 to 29 years for me.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411453 is a reply to message #411443] Fri, 01 October 2021 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 19:26:42 -0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In sci.crypt Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>
>>> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on
>>> former New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to
>>> prosecute ISPs over alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and
>>> gave the major ISPs an excuse to shut down their NNTP servers
>>> entirely back in the mid-aughts.
>>
>> That did also have an impact. But consider that had NNTP/Usenet
>> service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP
>
> Consider also that it was dropped globally not just in the US.

True, and anyone outside of the US would not have cared much about the
NY AG's blustering.

From the ISP perspective, it is a simple matter to monitor number of
users signing up vs. number of users using "the web" and number of
users using "Usenet". They all likely had logs and stats showing
something like 99% of new users never touch Usenet and something like
98% of existing users never touch Usenet and so after some time, they
decided to drop Usenet because it was a direct cost to them, but
clearly not a reason why all those users were paying them for access.

And, if those ISP's were running NNTP servers *and* carrying the
alt.binaries hierarchy, the huge size of alt.binaries made the NNTP
server a huge cost burden for the amount of storage necessary for even
a few days of retention on alt.binaries.

Now, they /could/ have just dropped alt.binaries.* and saved themselves
the expense of storage for that portion of Usenet. But if they did
have stat's showing something like only 2% of their users ever use
Usenet, then dropping everything in their view did little harm to
anyone. They were not likely to lose anything but pocket change from
the 2% of users who might complain or go elsewhere.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411455 is a reply to message #411453] Fri, 01 October 2021 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 14:55:40 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> And, if those ISP's were running NNTP servers *and* carrying the
> alt.binaries hierarchy, the huge size of alt.binaries made the NNTP
> server a huge cost burden for the amount of storage necessary for even
> a few days of retention on alt.binaries.

Not just storage (which is cheap) but also bandwidth lwhich after
all was (and is) their main product and at the time very expensive. Losing
vast quantities of bandwidth to a full USENET feed (and often that was the
option for USENET peering take it all or take none of it) at a time when WWW
was often claimed to stand for World Wide Wait was not good business.

> They were not likely to lose anything but pocket change from
> the 2% of users who might complain or go elsewhere.

Not even that when nobody is providing an NNTP service as part of
the package because even if you have to go elsewhere for USENET you still
need the ISP for connectivity.

but USENET was just the first service to go, most ISPs these days
provide connectivity, maybe static IPs, maybe IPv6 and (reluctantly) an
outgoing SMTP relay, but you'll have to ask about it and they probably
wouldn't bother if they didn't need it for themselves. You want email, or
web hosting or USENET or an ftp archive or ... "Go find it yourself start at
Google they've got everything you need".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411456 is a reply to message #411455] Fri, 01 October 2021 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 14:55:40 -0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> And, if those ISP's were running NNTP servers *and* carrying the
>> alt.binaries hierarchy, the huge size of alt.binaries made the NNTP
>> server a huge cost burden for the amount of storage necessary for
>> even a few days of retention on alt.binaries.
>
> Not just storage (which is cheap) but also bandwidth lwhich
> after all was (and is) their main product and at the time very
> expensive. Losing vast quantities of bandwidth to a full USENET feed
> (and often that was the option for USENET peering take it all or take
> none of it) at a time when WWW was often claimed to stand for World
> Wide Wait was not good business.

Ah, yes, a 'peering' arrangement that is "all or nothing" causes a huge
bandwidth charge, to receive alt.binaries.*, even if they were all
subsequently dropped locally to avoid any 'copyright infringement'
appearances. That right there would have given the bean-counters at
the ISP reason enough to target Usenet as a "drop this cost center"
item.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411457 is a reply to message #411428] Fri, 01 October 2021 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2021-09-30, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/09/2021 21.26, Rich wrote:
>
>> That did also have an impact. But consider that had NNTP/Usenet
>> service been seen as a major selling point for folks buying ISP
>> accounts, or a major revenue center for the ISP, those same ISP's
>> would likely not have shut it down, even with the bluster of the
>> NY AG.
>>
>> The ISP's had probably already targeted NNTP/Usenet service for
>> termination and were likely simply looking for some reason to
>> shutter NNTP/Usenet service anyway, and the NY AG provided a
>> convienent reason at the moment. Had he not done so, they
>> would have likely latched onto some other reason to turn it off.
>
> Indeed.
>
> My ISP, for instance, since years does not provide email to new
> clients, but fortunately has not cancelled the existing accounts.
> They also closed our web pages.

You're lucky. My ISP sold all its e-mail accounts down the river
to Google (and yes, I do know the provenance of that phrase).
Fortunately I was already getting email and Usenet through
third parties.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411460 is a reply to message #411452] Fri, 01 October 2021 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2021-10-01, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> In sci.crypt Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:20:38 -0400) it happened Dan Espen
>> <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote in <sj5k8p$r02$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:25:46 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 01:44:05 -0400, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 9/29/2021 10:44 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Now we have a problem that few folks younger than X even know of
>>>> >>> Usenet, or if they do, they only know if it as "that place where one
>>>> >>> downloads binaries via NZB files". And with #1 (few ISP's carrying it
>>>> >>> anymore) it is hard to gain new folks joining up to discuss anything.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Ah, but there must be a few stand-outs.. I've been lurking in various
>>>> >> text newsgroups for years, and posting in a few as well. I'm 26 years
>>>> >> old, for the record.. :)
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
>>>> > life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).
>>>>
>>>> 40 years for me, and that's more than half of mine!
>>>
>>> I'd have to guess, I think it was 79.
>>> I was at Bell Labs.
>>>
>>> So, 42 years. I'm old but not old enough.
>>
>> OK then, I think I started in 1998 with win98 and trumpet winsock and
>> Free Agent. But in that same year I think it was I found a CD with
>> SLS Linux. So as C exercise wrote my own newsreader, had to be a
>> Linux Free Agent like style:
>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
>> still using it today.
>>
>> The interesting thing is that I now have a searchable database of all
>> those postings I found interesting going back to 1998.
>>
>> As for age, I will be 75 in a few months.
>> Hey I am still coding and designing electronics :-)
>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
>
> I got access to the internet circa 1992, a terminal session over dialup
> to a Sun sparc station 50. Sometime after that I discovered Usenet.
> So I've known about/been lurking in Usenet since circa 1993. But I
> likely spent more time lurking than posting back then, as the internet
> access was a "work account" that came with all the normal "behave"
> legalese that "work accounts" come with. It would be until I got a
> personal dialup account before I really started being more active than
> a lurker. And the exact time for that is lost to history, but is
> likely circa 1996 or 1997. So somewhere from 24 to 29 years for me.

32 for me. In 1989 a local BBS (Mind Link) established a link to
Usenet in a way that made a number of newsgroups look like their
local message groups. I've been on a.f.c ever since.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411461 is a reply to message #411445] Fri, 01 October 2021 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:30:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> OK then, I think I started in 1998 with win98 and trumpet winsock and
> Free Agent.

Must have started 1996, using the Netscape Communicator Suit first under
Windows, then Forte Agent. Since 1997 I use Linux but until around 1998 I
was still booting Windows to check the usenet. I think my first Linux
newsreader was slrn. Around 2002 I switched to Gnus which I still use
today.
--
Andreas
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411462 is a reply to message #411461] Fri, 01 October 2021 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Jan Panteltje

On a sunny day (Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:47:19 -0400) it happened Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote in <874ka0zlg8.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:30:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>> OK then, I think I started in 1998 with win98 and trumpet winsock and
>> Free Agent.
>
> Must have started 1996, using the Netscape Communicator Suit first under
> Windows, then Forte Agent. Since 1997 I use Linux but until around 1998 I
> was still booting Windows to check the usenet. I think my first Linux
> newsreader was slrn. Around 2002 I switched to Gnus which I still use
> today.

Actually I think it was win3.1 with trumpet winsock and Free Agent for me
so on Usenet a bit earlier than 1998.
Been in Linux since 1998 and never went back to windows,
Had to use it and program in it for my work at times though.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411463 is a reply to message #411424] Fri, 01 October 2021 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

Questor <usenet@only.tnx> schrieb:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:44:06 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In sci.crypt 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>> I've been lurking Usenet for decades and I never considered it dead.
>>> It's obscure because most people are mesmerized by social media, reddit,
>>> and the like.
>>
>> It is also obscure because:
>>
>> 1) many (most?) ISP's began dropping NNTP feeds as part of their
>> provided package of features when one purchased an account. If
>> one's ISP did not provide NNTP, and the person signing up did not
>> already know of Usenet and also know how to buy separate access,
>> then there was limited to no discovery on the part of new people
>> on the 'net' of Usenet
>
> As I mentioned in another forum, blame also needs to be placed on former New
> York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who threatened to prosecute ISPs over
> alleged child pornography in binary newsgoups and gave the major ISPs an excuse
> to shut down their NNTP servers entirely back in the mid-aughts.

I thought the correct description was "the naughties"?
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411469 is a reply to message #411457] Fri, 01 October 2021 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E. R.

On 01/10/2021 19.43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2021-09-30, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 30/09/2021 21.26, Rich wrote:

....

>> Indeed.
>>
>> My ISP, for instance, since years does not provide email to new
>> clients, but fortunately has not cancelled the existing accounts.
>> They also closed our web pages.
>
> You're lucky. My ISP sold all its e-mail accounts down the river
> to Google (and yes, I do know the provenance of that phrase).
> Fortunately I was already getting email and Usenet through
> third parties.

I think that my ISP did sell us to some local mail provider, certainly
not google. I suffer hiccups.

Now, I realize that I should be with an independent mail provider,
because it makes me impossible to migrate ISP. Too many people know my
address, too many services I registered or subscribed, too big a
nuisance to change. Back then, I did not imagine this. Although I think
that back then independent mail providers were more expensive or didn't
offer similar service to what my ISP offered.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411470 is a reply to message #411434] Fri, 01 October 2021 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 30 Sep 2021 23:36:02 GMT
Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:25:46 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> I'm reading and posting for 25 years now, which is more than half of my
>> life (is that what you call "Half Life? ;-).
>
> 40 years for me, and that's more than half of mine!

Ah the joys of being in the right place at the right time, I first
heard about USENET and the UUCP network in the mid 1980s but failed
(despite repeated attempts) to persuade my employer that they needed a feed
from UKC so I didn't get connected until I got a Demon account in 1992 -
eek that's nearly thirty years ago! Where's my time fly swatter ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: SUSE Reviving Usenet [message #411471 is a reply to message #411469] Fri, 01 October 2021 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Rich

In sci.crypt Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 01/10/2021 19.43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2021-09-30, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 30/09/2021 21.26, Rich wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>> My ISP, for instance, since years does not provide email to new
>>> clients, but fortunately has not cancelled the existing accounts.
>>> They also closed our web pages.
>>
>> You're lucky. My ISP sold all its e-mail accounts down the river to
>> Google (and yes, I do know the provenance of that phrase).
>> Fortunately I was already getting email and Usenet through third
>> parties.
>
> I think that my ISP did sell us to some local mail provider,
> certainly not google. I suffer hiccups.
>
> Now, I realize that I should be with an independent mail provider,
> because it makes me impossible to migrate ISP. Too many people know
> my address, too many services I registered or subscribed, too big a
> nuisance to change. Back then, I did not imagine this. Although I
> think that back then independent mail providers were more expensive
> or didn't offer similar service to what my ISP offered.

My first 'internet email' was with $job, and as I knew full well the
monitoring/tracking possibilities of internet networking I used it only
for $job. When dialup ISP's suddenly popped onto the scene in my area,
I signed up and got a username@isp-domain.com email address (in large
part driven by $job actually starting to do some of those
monitoring/tracking possibilities). When 'broadband' (DSL) appeared
later in my area, I realized the negative aspects of having my email
address tied to "@isp-domain.com" and bought my own domain and setup my
own email hosting. That was circa 2000 now, and I've had the same
email address through three different ISP's and four different "links".
That was also generally in the time before the advent of
google/yahoo/hotmail "webmail" service overall, so one's options were
generally an "@isp-domain.com" including the negatives related to
switching ISP's or "host it yourself".
Pages (6): [1  2  3  4  5  6    »]  Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
Previous Topic: Re: Ctrl+Shift+V vs Ctrl+V.
Next Topic: Next SCCAN meeting - Saturday, March 22, 2022
Goto Forum:
  

-=] Back to Top [=-
[ Syndicate this forum (XML) ] [ RSS ] [ PDF ]

Current Time: Thu Mar 28 18:48:59 EDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.07456 seconds