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| Re: Linux question [message #24343 is a reply to message #24334] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 06:22   |
James Knight
Messages: 18
Registered: November 2012
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If you upgraded the video, consider lubuntu. Otherwise xubuntu might be your best bet. Many people enjoy mintppc.
Check out
http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.com/
http://mac.linux.be/
http://ppcluddite.blogspot.com/
For more info. Ubuntu basds installs may be a bit more bug free. Mint has a good forum support network.
Please report back on your decision and findings.
I'll let someone else chime in on educational stuff. Google tells me there is a ton.
-doc jimbo
Sent from my mobile device.
On Nov 15, 2012, at 5:34 AM, Ben Kernan <bkprolix@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac.
> I seem to remember something called Stone Suite as an early s/w package for Linux...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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| Re: Linux question [message #24344 is a reply to message #24334] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 08:49 |
M Christol
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Here's some
http://penguinppc.org/about-2/distributions/
From the installation there should be some method to install
productivity software but I am not sure how far back that goes.
Hope you have plenty of hair to pull out.
On 11/15/12 5:34 AM, Ben Kernan wrote:
> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac.
> I seem to remember something called Stone Suite as an early s/w package for Linux...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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| Re: Linux question [message #24378 is a reply to message #24334] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 12:42 |
Clark Martin
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Sent from an iPhone, don't ask whose.
On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:34 AM, Ben Kernan <bkprolix@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac.
> I seem to remember something called Stone Suite as an early s/w package for Linux...
I've tried several and found Ubuntu to be my favorite. But be careful of the version. I think I'm running 10.04 on my Sawtooth. On a PC I tried updating to the latest and lost support for the video card so I had to reinstall the older version. It really should check for that.
Most software for Linux is (more or less) freeware.
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| Re: Linux question [message #24440 is a reply to message #24334] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 14:55 |
Mac User #330250
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---------- Original message ----------
Subject: Linux question
Date: Thursday, 15. November 2012
From: Ben Kernan <bkprolix@yahoo.com>
To: "g3-5-list@googlegroups.com" <g3-5-list@googlegroups.com>
> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently
> running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what
> freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an
> educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac. I seem to remember something
> called Stone Suite as an early s/w package for Linux...
First of all: what’s wrong with continuing to run 10.4 Tiger on a Mac? I still
run Tiger on mine, and with TenFourFox even Internet is possible (without Java
that is). I additionally use NoScript, so I don’t see so much of a security
problem here.
Second, Linux is different. There is no “stable” API for applications, so there
are almost non. In other words: you just don’t find very much commertial
software for Linux due to this fact. What you do find will propably only work
on Ubuntu and maybe some others (like Fedora/RedHat, openSUSE/SLES, …) *on*
*x86* but not on ppc/ppc64 or any other architecture (ARM, MIPS, Alpha, SPARC,
…).
The term “Freeware” is wrong in this context.
Normally you speak of Freeware when there is a proprietary (closed source)
i.e. commercial-like application that is given away for free. Like OnyX.
But Linux mostly provides _o_pen _s_ource _s_oftware, “OSS”. Mozilla Firefox
and VLC are such examples. They are available on a variety of operating
systems, like Windows, OS X, Linux… even iOS and Android.
Other OSS is only available on/for Linux. Like some filesystem drivers or
system applications.
BTW, CUPS, the Common Unix Printing System, which was also used in Mac OS X
since the early days is also the standard Linux printing solution. It was
bought by Apple, and now every Linux computer uses OSS that is “Apple, Inc.”
branded. Fun, if you think of it.
Apple itself also uses a lot of OSS in the depth of Mac OS X. Just the GUI,
“Aqua”, and the applications are closed source by Apple.
Even the browser uses OSS: WebKit.
Anyway, I am thinking that most modern Linux distributions got bloated. I use
Gentoo Linux, and I decided to go with KDE, but this is a no-go on a Power Mac
with 400 MHz. It will feel even worse than Leopard.
So I found this:
http://justaguythinkingblog.blogspot.co.at/2012/04/alternati ve-os-for-older-
powerpc-macs.html
And I can second that. I’d go for a lightweight Linux (more precisely: Window
Manager, like: KDE, Gnome, Xfce, LXDE, …) on an older Power Mac, just like I
would prefer Tiger over Leopard.
Other links, that may be of interest:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pmac/index .html
http://penguinppc.org/
http://mac.linux.be/content/apple-powerpc-wiki
So, my advice: “Forget Lion, Give MintPPC Linux a Try” (scoll down a bit):
http://lowendmac.com/misc/11mr/mb0516.html#6
Get it:
http://www.mintppc.org/
Although, I have to admit: I didn’t try MintPPC.
Instead, I tried Gentoo:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-ppc.xml
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-ppc-faq.xml
http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Apple_Power_Mac_G4_Quicksilve r_(M8493)
You can even boot a live system from a USB pen drive:
http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/LiveUSB_on_PPC
But first, you need to get into “command line editing”, and get Gentoo there:
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/where.xml
Cheers,
Andreas aka Mac User #330250
p.s. Forget that I even mentioned Gentoo Linux. Go for MintPPC! (No command
line editing there!)
If it really must be Ubuntu, use the 10.04 LTS (i.e. long time support)
version, that will be supported until April 2013 or 12.04 LTS until April
2017. You see the problem with 10.04?
And I advice a slimmer Window Manager (i.e. GUI), like Gnome 2 (Mint uses
this) or Xfce (Xubuntu) or LXDE (Lubuntu).
Also, be adviced that PPC support for Ubuntu is not official!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)
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| Re: Linux question [message #24441 is a reply to message #24440] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 16:29 |
peterhaas
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> Apple itself also uses a lot of OSS in the depth of Mac OS X. Just the
> GUI, “Aqua”, and the applications are closed source by Apple.
> Even the browser uses OSS: WebKit.
Indeed so, including much of the OS X kernel, which predates the founding
of Apple Inc (formerly Apple Computer Inc) by several years.
Just invoke, say, on a Hackintosh, OS X using the -v (verbose) boot
option, and you will immediately see the BSD (Berkeley Standard
Distribution) copyright, "Copyright by The Regents of The University of
California", and an exhaustive list of copyright years, many of which
pre-date the founding of Apple itself.
Apple Inc chose to encrypt its copy of the BSD kernel, but knowledgeable
hackers soon discovered the decryption key, often termed "The Poem", which
allows a Hackintosh to decrypt Apple Inc's OS X kernel. ANY OF THEM!
Indeed, the stability of Apple Inc's OS X kernel has allowed the VERY easy
generation of derivative kernels, for, say, Intel Atom processors (all OS
X versions, certainly up to and including 10.8) or for, say, Pentium 4
processors (OS X versions up to and including 10.6), and, sometimes, for
non-Intel processors, say, AMD processors.
It should perhaps come as no surprise that many of these efforts come from
off-shore nations, where Apple Inc's products are deemed "too expensive",
or even "exorbitantly expensive", yet the somewhat simple (i.e. Intel chip
sets and processors), and often somewhat difficult (i.e., AMD chip sets
and processors), so-called "hacks" have, indeed, been accomplished.
Just Google it!
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| Re: Linux question [message #25151 is a reply to message #24441] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 17:28 |
Bruce Johnson
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On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:29 PM, peterhaas@cruzio.com wrote:
>>
>> Apple itself also uses a lot of OSS in the depth of Mac OS X. Just the
>> GUI, “Aqua”, and the applications are closed source by Apple.
>> Even the browser uses OSS: WebKit.
>
> Indeed so, including much of the OS X kernel, which predates the founding
> of Apple Inc (formerly Apple Computer Inc) by several years.
>
> Just invoke, say, on a Hackintosh, OS X using the -v (verbose) boot
> option, and you will immediately see the BSD (Berkeley Standard
> Distribution) copyright, "Copyright by The Regents of The University of
> California", and an exhaustive list of copyright years, many of which
> pre-date the founding of Apple itself.
Well according to the canonical listing of the Unix Family Tree, (<http://www.levenez.com/unix/>) BSD1 dates to 1978; so Apple Predates BSD, although AT&T Unix predates Apple by several years.
Also Apple is one of the few companies to have produced version on both sides of the Great Schism; between System V and BSD. OS X is based on the BSD line (why the Califoria Board Of Regents copyrights are there) but A/UX, Apples FIRST Unix, was a System V-based system.
The opnly other one I'm familiar with is HP's HPUX, which was a frankenunix cobbled together from the corpses of HP's original workstation versions (based on System V) and Apollo's (based on BSD) when HP swallowed them up. <shudder> Burn it. Burn it with fire! Commands were an unpredicatble mix of BSD and SysV syntax.
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
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| Re: Linux question [message #25153 is a reply to message #25151] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 17:38 |
Stephen E. Bodnar
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On 11/15/12 1:28 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:29 PM, peterhaas@cruzio.com wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Apple itself also uses a lot of OSS in the depth of Mac OS X. Just the
>>> GUI, “Aqua”, and the applications are closed source by Apple.
>>> Even the browser uses OSS: WebKit.
>>
>> Indeed so, including much of the OS X kernel, which predates the founding
>> of Apple Inc (formerly Apple Computer Inc) by several years.
>>
>> Just invoke, say, on a Hackintosh, OS X using the -v (verbose) boot
>> option, and you will immediately see the BSD (Berkeley Standard
>> Distribution) copyright, "Copyright by The Regents of The University of
>> California", and an exhaustive list of copyright years, many of which
>> pre-date the founding of Apple itself.
>
> Well according to the canonical listing of the Unix Family Tree, (<http://www.levenez.com/unix/>) BSD1 dates to 1978; so Apple Predates BSD, although AT&T Unix predates Apple by several years.
>
> Also Apple is one of the few companies to have produced version on both sides of the Great Schism; between System V and BSD. OS X is based on the BSD line (why the Califoria Board Of Regents copyrights are there) but A/UX, Apples FIRST Unix, was a System V-based system.
>
> The opnly other one I'm familiar with is HP's HPUX, which was a frankenunix cobbled together from the corpses of HP's original workstation versions (based on System V) and Apollo's (based on BSD) when HP swallowed them up. <shudder> Burn it. Burn it with fire! Commands were an unpredicatble mix of BSD and SysV syntax.
>
And, believe it or not, there was a time (mid-90's) when Apple was
actually developing their own flavor of linux, called MKLinux.
Stephen
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| Re: Linux question [message #25154 is a reply to message #25153] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 18:23 |
Bruce Johnson
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On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Stephen E. Bodnar <sbodnar@gci.net> wrote:
>> The opnly other one I'm familiar with is HP's HPUX, which was a frankenunix cobbled together from the corpses of HP's original workstation versions (based on System V) and Apollo's (based on BSD) when HP swallowed them up. <shudder> Burn it. Burn it with fire! Commands were an unpredicatble mix of BSD and SysV syntax.
>>
>
> And, believe it or not, there was a time (mid-90's) when Apple was actually developing their own flavor of linux, called MKLinux.
I'd plumb forgot about that!
And now I remember it was that project which caught the eye of one Avi Tevanian, who was an OS programmer who had graduated from the CS program at Carnegie, where the concept of a mickrokernel-based unix had originated (which is what the 'MK' part stood for), and he brought it to the attention of his boss, a guy named Steve, who had had a passing involvement with Apple at one time…
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
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| Re: Linux question [message #25158 is a reply to message #24441] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 17:49 |
Jerry Kemp
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Registered: November 2012
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Apple doesn't use the BSD kernel, Apple uses the Mach kernel, both for
OS X and for the iPhone OS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel)
Apple uses the BSD userland in OS X and a reduced subset of the BSD
userland on the iPhone.
I understand that many iPhone jailbreakers install a full, replacement
BSD userland as part of the jailbreak process. Please correct me on
this part if you have more details.
Jerry
On 11/15/12 03:29 PM,
>
>
> Apple Inc chose to encrypt its copy of the BSD kernel, but knowledgeable
> hackers soon discovered the decryption key, often termed "The Poem", which
> allows a Hackintosh to decrypt Apple Inc's OS X kernel. ANY OF THEM!
>
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| Re: Linux question [message #25160 is a reply to message #25158] |
Thu, 15 November 2012 20:06 |
peterhaas
Messages: 80
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> Apple doesn't use the BSD kernel, Apple uses the Mach kernel, both for
> OS X and for the iPhone OS.
Perhaps true, but Apple Inc acknowledges The Regents of The University of
California's copyrights, within the kernel itself, and possibly other
components.
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| Re: Linux question [message #25181 is a reply to message #24334] |
Fri, 16 November 2012 00:10 |
Jesse StJohn
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Registered: November 2012
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try slackintosh, decent slackware derivative for ppc. or lfs......
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:34 AM, Ben Kernan <bkprolix@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently
> running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what
> freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an
> educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac.
> I seem to remember something called Stone Suite as an early s/w package
> for Linux...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>
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| Re: Linux question [message #25232 is a reply to message #25159] |
Fri, 16 November 2012 10:00 |
Bruce Johnson
Messages: 319
Registered: August 2012
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On Nov 15, 2012, at 5:36 PM, M Christol wrote:
> n 11/15/12 5:28 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>>
>>
>> Also Apple is one of the few companies to have produced version on both sides of the Great Schism; between System V and BSD. OS X is based on the BSD line (why the Califoria Board Of Regents copyrights are there) but A/UX, Apples FIRST Unix, was a System V-based system.
>>
> Was there an A/UX version of Photoshop?
I don't think so.
> There was some kind of unix version
Of Photoshop? I'm unaware of any. There was a unix version of Adobe's old long document software, FrameMaker? It was very expensive.
--
Bruce Johnson
"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai, PhD
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| Re: Linux question [message #25233 is a reply to message #25232] |
Fri, 16 November 2012 10:39 |
peterhaas
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>>> Also Apple is one of the few companies to have produced version on both
>>> sides of the Great Schism; between System V and BSD. OS X is based on
>>> the BSD line (why the Califoria Board Of Regents copyrights are there)
Apple discloses this lineage in OS X pretty plainly.
List the "extensions" and you will find "BSDKernel". It may, indeed, be
the mach_kernel, but it is called what it is, and it has UC Regents
copyrights going back to before there every was a Macintosh in Steve Jobs'
vision.
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| Re: Linux question [message #25266 is a reply to message #25233] |
Fri, 16 November 2012 11:57 |
Bruce Johnson
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Registered: August 2012
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On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:39 AM, peterhaas@cruzio.com wrote:
>
>>>> Also Apple is one of the few companies to have produced version on both
>>>> sides of the Great Schism; between System V and BSD. OS X is based on
>>>> the BSD line (why the Califoria Board Of Regents copyrights are there)
>
> Apple discloses this lineage in OS X pretty plainly.
>
> List the "extensions" and you will find "BSDKernel". It may, indeed, be
> the mach_kernel, but it is called what it is, and it has UC Regents
> copyrights going back to before there every was a Macintosh in Steve Jobs'
> vision.
Well it's more than a little convoluted. Mach was developed at Carnegie Mellon as a drop-in replacement kernel for Unix; in their case, BSD unix, since BSD was the de-facto standard for academic CS research; later developers of BSD adopted Mach as the standard BSD kernel.
--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
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| Re: Linux question [message #25932 is a reply to message #25181] |
Fri, 16 November 2012 06:09 |
James Knight
Messages: 18
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Im a slackware friend, but slackintosh hasn't had a release in 4 years. Might be dead.
Sent from my mobile device.
On Nov 16, 2012, at 12:10 AM, Jesse StJohn <jesselorenstjohn@gmail.com> wrote:
> try slackintosh, decent slackware derivative for ppc. or lfs......
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:34 AM, Ben Kernan <bkprolix@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac.
> I seem to remember something called Stone Suite as an early s/w package for Linux...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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| Re: Linux question [message #25945 is a reply to message #25932] |
Fri, 23 November 2012 10:44 |
Jesse StJohn
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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its(slackware 14 being ported to ppc) actually in development at this
moment, trust me i know those guys they are pretty close , a lot of intel
specifics needs to be removed and personally i think slack 14 to be
bloated, hell it has been bloated since 10. a nice real slack distro thats
not full of crap would be amazing.
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 5:09 AM, James Knight <dr.james.knight@gmail.com>wrote:
> Im a slackware friend, but slackintosh hasn't had a release in 4 years.
> Might be dead.
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
> On Nov 16, 2012, at 12:10 AM, Jesse StJohn <jesselorenstjohn@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> try slackintosh, decent slackware derivative for ppc. or lfs......
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:34 AM, Ben Kernan <bkprolix@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a g-4 400 (sawtooth ?),1gig ram w/12 & 40 gig drives. Currently
>> running 10.4 on the 40. What flavor Linux could I put on the 12, & what
>> freeware would work with it,if any is available. This would be an
>> educational tool for me as I have a 24" iMac.
>> I seem to remember something called Stone Suite as an early s/w package
>> for Linux...
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group
>> for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on
>> Power Macs.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>
--
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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