| Touch screens in cars [message #404533] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 07:46  |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
(probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre touch-screen
operation.
--
Pete
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404535 is a reply to message #404533] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 08:24  |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 20/01/2021 13.46, Peter Flass wrote:
> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
> eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
> (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
> raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
> relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
> for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
> right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
> operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre touch-screen
> operation.
>
I thought of that.
Problem would be, beside the software redesign, whether the grid would
impact visibility of the screen, distort it. And would also impact
features like touching on maps.
Another solution would be a physical row of buttons below or besides the
screen, possible with labels that can be changed instantly, by the software.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404536 is a reply to message #404533] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 08:10 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
> eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
> (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
> raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
> relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
> for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
> right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
> operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre
> touch-screen operation.
I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
rearranging things every update. It should even be easy enough to retrofit
using something like PCB layout tape (who else remembers using that ?).
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404537 is a reply to message #404533] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 08:44 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
> eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
> (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
> raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
> relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
> for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
> right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
> operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre touch-screen
> operation.
I'm thinking, that's a great idea, you ought to think about a patent.
But like most things laymen come up with, that's already been invented.
Disney to the rescue:
https://tinyurl.com/y57y32rn
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404541 is a reply to message #404533] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 10:45 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
> eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
> (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
> raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
> relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
> for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
> right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
> operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre touch-screen
> operation.
How about using voice commands instead?
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404542 is a reply to message #404533] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 10:55 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
> eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
> (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
> raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
> relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
> for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
> right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
> operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre touch-screen
> operation.
One of my relatives has a car with a touch screen, there are also
controls on the steering wheel that do many things.
--
Jim
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404543 is a reply to message #404536] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 11:16 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:10:43 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>> their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>> of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>> slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>> controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the
>> driver might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is
>> second column from the right, third row, It should be possible to
>> perform frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the
>> road, just like pre touch-screen operation.
I trust that the James Bond Eject button isn't next to it.
>
> I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
> rearranging things every update. It should even be easy enough to
> retrofit using something like PCB layout tape (who else remembers
> using that ?).
>
Pah, I recall when "all" headlights were round & 6" diameter, so
interchangeable.
As recently (20 years? that's OK here) encountered with phone charging
socket/plugs.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404544 is a reply to message #404542] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 11:22 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 15:55:49 GMT, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>> their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>> of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>> slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>> controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver
>> might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second
>> column from the right, third row, It should be possible to perform
>> frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the road, just
>> like pre touch-screen operation.
>
> One of my relatives has a car with a touch screen, there are also
> controls on the steering wheel that do many things.
>
Scott Adams?
Once I wished my television?/computer? could be as easy to operate as my
phone. and sadly now it's come true.
Of course I couldn't find that quote, as it gave me 500 "get a quote
here" websites
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404546 is a reply to message #404544] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 11:51 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-20, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Scott Adams?
>
> Once I wished my television?/computer? could be as easy to operate as my
> phone. and sadly now it's come true.
>
> Of course I couldn't find that quote, as it gave me 500 "get a quote
> here" websites
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as
my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer
figure out how to use my telephone.
-- Bjarne Stroustrup
https://www.stroustrup.com/quotes.html
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404547 is a reply to message #404545] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 11:51 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 15:45:47 GMT
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> How about using voice commands instead?
>
> "Turn left" ... "No No The OTHER left"
Who said that? The radio? Or the kids in the back seat?
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404548 is a reply to message #404543] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 11:51 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-20, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:10:43 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>>> their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>>> of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>>> slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>>> controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the
>>> driver might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is
>>> second column from the right, third row, It should be possible to
>>> perform frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the
>>> road, just like pre touch-screen operation.
>
> I trust that the James Bond Eject button isn't next to it.
>>
>> I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
>> rearranging things every update.
Oh well, it was a nice thought. Watch out for that eject button
next year.
>> It should even be easy enough to retrofit using something like
>> PCB layout tape (who else remembers using that ?).
>
> Pah, I recall when "all" headlights were round & 6" diameter, so
> interchangeable.
Yeah, thank God the threat of standardization was once again averted.
> As recently (20 years? that's OK here) encountered with phone charging
> socket/plugs.
But Apple keeps on trying. That's why our car has cables with
micro-USB connectors for my gadgets and Lightning connectors
for my wife's gadgets.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404549 is a reply to message #404544] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 11:39 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:22:15 -0000 (UTC)
"Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Scott Adams?
I think not.
> Once I wished my television?/computer? could be as easy to operate as my
> phone. and sadly now it's come true.
.... I can no longer understand my phone ... or thereabouts.
It was Bjarne Stroustrop IIRC.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404552 is a reply to message #404548] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 12:52 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 20 Jan 2021 16:51:14 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2021-01-20, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:10:43 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>>>> their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>>>> of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>>>> slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>>>> controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the
>>>> driver might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is
>>>> second column from the right, third row, It should be possible to
>>>> perform frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the
>>>> road, just like pre touch-screen operation.
>>
>> I trust that the James Bond Eject button isn't next to it.
>>>
>>> I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
>>> rearranging things every update.
>
> Oh well, it was a nice thought. Watch out for that eject button
> next year.
>
>>> It should even be easy enough to retrofit using something like
>>> PCB layout tape (who else remembers using that ?).
>>
>> Pah, I recall when "all" headlights were round & 6" diameter, so
>> interchangeable.
>
> Yeah, thank God the threat of standardization was once again averted.
Would be nice if they would come up with a standard bulb. The sealed
beam is dead, which I view as a good thing, but there is no reason why
there have to be a dozen different varieties of bulb to go in the back
of the things.
>> As recently (20 years? that's OK here) encountered with phone charging
>> socket/plugs.
>
> But Apple keeps on trying. That's why our car has cables with
> micro-USB connectors for my gadgets and Lightning connectors
> for my wife's gadgets.
Micro-USB is a "standard" that needs to die the death though. The
things are almost unbelievably fragile.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404554 is a reply to message #404543] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 13:21 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:10:43 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>>> their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>>> of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>>> slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>>> controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the
>>> driver might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is
>>> second column from the right, third row, It should be possible to
>>> perform frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the
>>> road, just like pre touch-screen operation.
>
> I trust that the James Bond Eject button isn't next to it.
>>
>> I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
>> rearranging things every update. It should even be easy enough to
>> retrofit using something like PCB layout tape (who else remembers
>> using that ?).
>
> Pah, I recall when "all" headlights were round & 6" diameter, so
> interchangeable.
Yep, and they would burn out pretty quickly.
I'm not sure what they are using now, but if they go the LED route
changing them shouldn't be much of an issue.
> As recently (20 years? that's OK here) encountered with phone charging
> socket/plugs.
My latest phone (S10E) uses usb-c.
Now I can just use a generic cable.
Yay!
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404555 is a reply to message #404554] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 14:22 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:21:44 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:10:43 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>>>> their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>>>> of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>>>> slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>>>> controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the
>>>> driver might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is
>>>> second column from the right, third row, It should be possible to
>>>> perform frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the
>>>> road, just like pre touch-screen operation.
>>
>> I trust that the James Bond Eject button isn't next to it.
>>>
>>> I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
>>> rearranging things every update. It should even be easy enough to
>>> retrofit using something like PCB layout tape (who else remembers
>>> using that ?).
>>
>> Pah, I recall when "all" headlights were round & 6" diameter, so
>> interchangeable.
>
> Yep, and they would burn out pretty quickly.
> I'm not sure what they are using now, but if they go the LED route
> changing them shouldn't be much of an issue.
They were using halogens for a while--IIRC the H3 and H4 were pretty
much the Euro standard (H3 for hi- or lo- only, H4 for hi-lo) but
there are a bunch of other similar ones. LED headlights aren't really
designed for bulb replacement--replace the whole assembly if it ever
needs it, but they should last the life of the vehicle.
>> As recently (20 years? that's OK here) encountered with phone charging
>> socket/plugs.
>
> My latest phone (S10E) uses usb-c.
> Now I can just use a generic cable.
> Yay!
And it can actually carry a decent current.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404557 is a reply to message #404546] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 14:29 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as
> my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer
> figure out how to use my telephone.
> -- Bjarne Stroustrup
>
> https://www.stroustrup.com/quotes.html
You belong to the austere generation of humanists who still
insist on wanting to understand the world around them. This
demand has become absurd. Leave everything to habit and your
discomfort will disappear. Consider do you think you know how
the telephone and television work. and yet you use them
everday. And with the exception of a few learned men how many
know how their hearts and kidneys work?
-- Young man to Primo Levi, about computers
(From essay by Mark Schorr, reference lost)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404558 is a reply to message #404555] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 14:48 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:21:44 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> writes:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:10:43 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 05:46:19 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take
>>>> > their eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought
>>>> > of a (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a
>>>> > slightly raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the
>>>> > controls relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the
>>>> > driver might know, for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is
>>>> > second column from the right, third row, It should be possible to
>>>> > perform frequently used operations without taking his eyes off the
>>>> > road, just like pre touch-screen operation.
>>>
>>> I trust that the James Bond Eject button isn't next to it.
>>>>
>>>> I like that a lot provided the manufacturers refrain from
>>>> rearranging things every update. It should even be easy enough to
>>>> retrofit using something like PCB layout tape (who else remembers
>>>> using that ?).
>>>
>>> Pah, I recall when "all" headlights were round & 6" diameter, so
>>> interchangeable.
>>
>> Yep, and they would burn out pretty quickly.
>> I'm not sure what they are using now, but if they go the LED route
>> changing them shouldn't be much of an issue.
>
> They were using halogens for a while--IIRC the H3 and H4 were pretty
> much the Euro standard (H3 for hi- or lo- only, H4 for hi-lo) but
> there are a bunch of other similar ones. LED headlights aren't really
> designed for bulb replacement--replace the whole assembly if it ever
> needs it, but they should last the life of the vehicle.
>
>>> As recently (20 years? that's OK here) encountered with phone charging
>>> socket/plugs.
>>
>> My latest phone (S10E) uses usb-c.
>> Now I can just use a generic cable.
>> Yay!
>
> And it can actually carry a decent current.
And you can turn the plug any way you like.
I'm in the process or replacing the innards of my desktop.
One of the reasons I'm doing this is to upgrade to usb-c.
My nightly backups should run faster.
I've got a new X570 motherboard, an AMD 5600x, 2 M2 SSD drives.
I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
I don't need that much, but you only live once.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404560 is a reply to message #404552] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 14:37 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 12:52:39 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> Micro-USB is a "standard" that needs to die the death though. The
> things are almost unbelievably fragile.
USB-C is a great improvement, at least it doesn't take three
attempts to get it the right way round (yes I know there are only two ways
but ...).
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404563 is a reply to message #404558] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 15:23 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
statement.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404565 is a reply to message #404563] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 16:31 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:23:44 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>
> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
> statement.
>
k->M->G..>T?
Kids today, get off my lawn!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404566 is a reply to message #404546] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 16:33 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:51:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-01-20, Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> Scott Adams?
>>
>> Once I wished my television?/computer? could be as easy to operate as
>> my phone. and sadly now it's come true.
>>
>> Of course I couldn't find that quote, as it gave me 500 "get a quote
>> here" websites
>
> I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as
> my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer
> figure out how to use my telephone.
> -- Bjarne Stroustrup
>
> https://www.stroustrup.com/quotes.html
>
Thanks.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404567 is a reply to message #404549] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 16:34 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:39:14 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:22:15 -0000 (UTC)
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> Scott Adams?
>
> I think not.
It was a wild guess, I thought it might be a Dilbert cartoon.
>
>> Once I wished my television?/computer? could be as easy to operate as
>> my phone. and sadly now it's come true.
>
> ... I can no longer understand my phone ... or thereabouts.
>
> It was Bjarne Stroustrop IIRC.
>
Thanks also.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404568 is a reply to message #404565] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 17:01 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:31:48 -0000 (UTC)
"Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:23:44 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>>
>> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
>> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
>> statement.
>>
>
> k->M->G..>T?
I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404569 is a reply to message #404560] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 18:00 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 12:52:39 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Micro-USB is a "standard" that needs to die the death though. The
>> things are almost unbelievably fragile.
>
> USB-C is a great improvement, at least it doesn't take three
> attempts to get it the right way round (yes I know there are only two ways
> but ...).
I've done 3 attempts and sometimes 4.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404570 is a reply to message #404563] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 18:08 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>
> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
> statement.
Business is different.
Actually, some peculiarity of these CPUs or motherboards says they work
better with 4 sticks instead of 2. I wanted 4400Mhz and they came 8GB
apiece.
On my first job, 16K was the biggest machine they had (a 1460).
Left that place pretty quick and worked 2 years with 8K.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404571 is a reply to message #404568] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 18:14 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:31:48 -0000 (UTC)
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:23:44 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>>>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>>>
>>> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
>>> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
>>> statement.
>>>
>>
>> k->M->G..>T?
>
> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
I currently have 2 SSDs, 64GB and 1TB.
I'm replacing them with M.2 NVMe sticks, 256GB and 1TB.
So for a while my desktop will be 2TB.
These M.2 sticks surprised me, I didn't know they get embedded in
thermal grease.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404574 is a reply to message #404570] |
Wed, 20 January 2021 19:48 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-20, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>>
>> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
>> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
>> statement.
>
> Business is different.
>
> Actually, some peculiarity of these CPUs or motherboards says they work
> better with 4 sticks instead of 2. I wanted 4400Mhz and they came 8GB
> apiece.
>
> On my first job, 16K was the biggest machine they had (a 1460).
> Left that place pretty quick and worked 2 years with 8K.
In my first job we had 16K. We later upgraded to 32K. Luxury!
I did so some work on an 8K machine. That wasn't nearly as much fun.
This was about the time when IBM was making waves by slashing the
price of a megabyte of memory from $75,000 to a mere $15,000.
<FourYorkshiremen>
And you try to tell the young people of today that...
they won't believe you. They won't!
</FourYorkshiremen>
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404581 is a reply to message #404533] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 01:18 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-21, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> There should be a *.car group somewhere for car related things (which not
> have to deal with Z80 or 6502 CPUs -).
There should probably also be a *.cdr group for the Lisp people.
> F'up2 poster (kill-filing this subject).
No thanks. Read it here.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404582 is a reply to message #404533] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 01:18 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-21, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> There should be a *.car group somewhere for car related things (which not
> have to deal with Z80 or 6502 CPUs -).
>
> F'up2 poster (kill-filing this subject).
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404586 is a reply to message #404568] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 04:19 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
The workstation under my desk at work has 512 GB of RAM, larger
than the system SSD.
I need it only very occasionally, but there are certain linear
equation solvers in an application which are a) very fast b)
extremely stable and which c) need a huge amount of memory if the
equation system they solve becomes just a little too large.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404589 is a reply to message #404568] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 05:06 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:01:39 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:31:48 -0000 (UTC)
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:23:44 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>>>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>>>
>>> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
>>> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
>>> statement.
>>>
>>
>> k->M->G..>T?
>
> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
>
Not Yet.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404592 is a reply to message #404552] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 08:03 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-20, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Micro-USB is a "standard" that needs to die the death though. The
> things are almost unbelievably fragile.
Really? I guess I've just been lucky, never had issues with my micro-USB
devices. Now, the Lightning connector on iPhones tends to wear out after
a couple of years. My current iPhone charges wirelessly, at least when
I'm at home, so that should mitigate the issue.
USB C definitely is an improvement, though, no question.
Niklas
--
"Once packets are in, who cares where they go out? That's not my department,"
says Wernher von Route.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404598 is a reply to message #404592] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 13:10 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-21, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
> On 2021-01-20, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Micro-USB is a "standard" that needs to die the death though. The
>> things are almost unbelievably fragile.
>
> Really? I guess I've just been lucky, never had issues with my micro-USB
> devices.
Me too, although I try to be careful with them.
> Now, the Lightning connector on iPhones tends to wear out after
> a couple of years.
You're expected to get a new phone by then anyway.
On the other hand, the micro-USB connector on my LG A-341 flip phone
has been holding out for a lot longer than that.
> My current iPhone charges wirelessly, at least when
> I'm at home, so that should mitigate the issue.
At least until _that_ standard changes.
Recommended reading: _Unauthorized Bread_ by Cory Doctorow
(part of a collection titled _Radicalized_).
> USB C definitely is an improvement, though, no question.
Haven't gotten into that one yet.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404605 is a reply to message #404598] |
Thu, 21 January 2021 17:01 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 21 Jan 2021 18:10:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2021-01-21, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-01-20, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Micro-USB is a "standard" that needs to die the death though. The
>>> things are almost unbelievably fragile.
>>
>> Really? I guess I've just been lucky, never had issues with my micro-USB
>> devices.
>
> Me too, although I try to be careful with them.
Seems to be the connector on the cable that goes. I need to get a new
one to charge my keyboard--the one I'm using is chancy.
>> Now, the Lightning connector on iPhones tends to wear out after
>> a couple of years.
>
> You're expected to get a new phone by then anyway.
>
> On the other hand, the micro-USB connector on my LG A-341 flip phone
> has been holding out for a lot longer than that.
>
>> My current iPhone charges wirelessly, at least when
>> I'm at home, so that should mitigate the issue.
>
> At least until _that_ standard changes.
>
> Recommended reading: _Unauthorized Bread_ by Cory Doctorow
> (part of a collection titled _Radicalized_).
>
>> USB C definitely is an improvement, though, no question.
>
> Haven't gotten into that one yet.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404616 is a reply to message #404568] |
Fri, 22 January 2021 02:37 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:31:48 -0000 (UTC)
> "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:23:44 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 14:48:32 -0500
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm expecting 32GB ram tomorrow.
>>>> I don't need that much, but you only live once.
>>>
>>> Just how loud would the laughter have been if, on the day you
>>> started your first job in the biz, someone had told you about that
>>> statement.
>>>
>>
>> k->M->G..>T?
>
> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
I work in high-performance computing, and it's pretty much de rigueur
there. Certainly if you add up the nodes of our biggest supercomputer
rather than considering them individually.
Niklas
--
I'd like to think that when I am falling to my doom off a crumbly limestone
cliff I won't be saying, "Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!!!!" but rather, "You know,
they really should put that fence further back."
-- David Morgan-Mar
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404617 is a reply to message #404616] |
Fri, 22 January 2021 02:53 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> schrieb:
> On 2021-01-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
>
> I work in high-performance computing, and it's pretty much de rigueur
> there. Certainly if you add up the nodes of our biggest supercomputer
> rather than considering them individually.
My impression is that the amount of memory per core isn't all
that large for high-performance computers. Which means that if
you have a cluster with a mixed load, you'll have to equip some
nodes specially for CFD applications, because they often have high
memory requirements...
From a folkloristic perspective, I find the resemblance between
the slurm options and what you have to put on the JOB statement
of IBM's JCL rather amusing, given that everybody abhors JCL.
But then again, you use them to submit to a batch queue, so
it stands to reason that you have to specify the same things.
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404623 is a reply to message #404617] |
Fri, 22 January 2021 07:02 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2021-01-22, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> schrieb:
>> On 2021-01-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
>>
>> I work in high-performance computing, and it's pretty much de rigueur
>> there. Certainly if you add up the nodes of our biggest supercomputer
>> rather than considering them individually.
>
> My impression is that the amount of memory per core isn't all
> that large for high-performance computers. Which means that if
> you have a cluster with a mixed load, you'll have to equip some
> nodes specially for CFD applications, because they often have high
> memory requirements...
That's true, not all nodes tend to be created equal. In the new system I
believe the largest nodes will have 1 TiB of RAM, and the most numerous
ones a quarter of that.
There are also nodes specialised in GPU loads.
> From a folkloristic perspective, I find the resemblance between
> the slurm options and what you have to put on the JOB statement
> of IBM's JCL rather amusing, given that everybody abhors JCL.
>
> But then again, you use them to submit to a batch queue, so
> it stands to reason that you have to specify the same things.
I can imagine. I haven't gotten that deep into slurm yet.
Niklas
--
} >A manual has, at least, some basis in fact,
} Erm, excuse me?
Usually, the name of the program matches the manual's title page.
-- DPM, Patrick R. Wade and Rik Steenwinkel in asr
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| Re: lotsa RAM, Touch screens in cars [message #404629 is a reply to message #404616] |
Fri, 22 January 2021 15:06 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <i6vdlbFbivjU1@mid.individual.net>,
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
>> I do know of systems with terabytes of RAM.
>
> I work in high-performance computing, and it's pretty much de rigueur
> there. Certainly if you add up the nodes of our biggest supercomputer
> rather than considering them individually.
IBM's current z15 mainframes can be configured with up to 16TB on the
smallest single rack model, 40TB on the largest four-rack model.
They can have up to 190 CPUs to keep the RAM busy.
In cloud land, AWS can set you up with a special purpose virtual
server with 24TB of RAM to run in-memory databases. Their normal
virtual servers go up to about 4TB.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| Re: Touch screens in cars [message #404634 is a reply to message #404535] |
Fri, 22 January 2021 19:10 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 20/01/2021 13.46, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I was thinking about my perennial rant about drivers having to take their
>> eyes iff the road to use touchscreen controls, and have thought of a
>> (probably not original solution). Fabricate the screen with a slightly
>> raised grid that the driver can feel, and then lay out the controls
>> relative to the grid. For a given set of controls the driver might know,
>> for example, that to turn up the A/C the button is second column from the
>> right, third row, It should be possible to perform frequently used
>> operations without taking his eyes off the road, just like pre touch-screen
>> operation.
>>
>
> I thought of that.
>
> Problem would be, beside the software redesign, whether the grid would
> impact visibility of the screen, distort it. And would also impact
> features like touching on maps.
>
> Another solution would be a physical row of buttons below or besides the
> screen, possible with labels that can be changed instantly, by the software.
>
That’s good too.
--
Pete
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