| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403351 is a reply to message #403328] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 11:22   |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:02:25 +0200, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> I don't think we should spend VAST amounts of money that we don't have
>> just because somebody thinks it might "do good".
>
> Oh, but we already are thanks to all those climate-zealots like greta and
> rest of the zombies. Not only that ... western dietary guidelines, all
> this nondemic nonsense and such are surely coming with a BIG pricetag!
You know, that is something that strikes me as weird. Don't get me
wrong, I like Greta for standing up for what she believes in and
admire her ability to get people to listen to her. But in what
universe does a 15 year old know enough about anything other than the
life of a 15 year old for their opinion to be worth listening to when
deciding national environmental policy?
> What comes to electric cars, those things surely aren't good for the
> environment.
That's actually a good question. They do cut down on emissions while
in operation, for a variety of reasons, but how energy use in
construction of them compares I have no idea. My gut says that they
have about the same environmental signature in that regard as
conventional cars but my gut may be completely off-base.
> Just like those wind powerplants they erect all over to ruin
> nature.
That actually points out the insanity of the environmental movement.
One group of greenies agitates to get windmills built and then when
they start another group of greenies file suit to block the
construction.
> Just to throw in couple things ...
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403352 is a reply to message #403337] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 11:27 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 30 Dec 2020 14:06:14 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>
> Well, microwave transmission exists. Of course, it has the drawback that
> if you miss the receiver, you end up cooking whatever you hit instead.
> Otherwise we could be getting power from the sun via satellites that can
> use photovoltaics without the losses from filtering through the
> atmosphere.
We could, and "cooking whatever you hit when you miss the reciever" is
not really the issue that opponents make it out to be. Size the
antennas so that the energy density on the ground is too low to be
harmful even with malicious action.
The main reason this hasn't been done is cost. If Starship actually
hits its cost and performance targets that obstacle potentially goes
away.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403353 is a reply to message #403342] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 11:33 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 16:41:37 +0200, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>
> Yet you charge your electric toothbrush via wireless induction ...
When I was a kid I had a van de graaf that could light up a
flourescent tube several feet away. Was cool as Hell. We don't have
toys like that anymore.
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| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403355 is a reply to message #403298] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 11:52 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 14:59:47 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Dec 2020 19:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds about right to me. We replaced 70-watt high-pressure sodium
>>> wall packs in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED fixtures.
>>> No plans for charging stations, though. :-)
>>
>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?
>
> Possibly slightly fewer lumens - but in a decent spectrum which aids
> visibility a lot more than the spiky spectrum of sodium lights.
And they're far more directional. I used to have Na vapor in a light
a block away that would shine through the window at night. The replacement
LED illuminates only the street and sidewalks, not houses a block away.
As this was in San Jose, and San Jose used sodium vapor lights because
of the nearby Mt Hamilton observatory, the switch to more directional
lighting allowed the use of white streetlights instead of the yellow.
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| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403356 is a reply to message #403349] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 11:54 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On 30 Dec 2020 06:48:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-12-29, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?
>>
>> Dunno about 200-watt sodium, but our 25-watt LEDs give about as much
>> light as the 70-watt sodiums they replaced. And the light is white,
>> rather than orange, which is much nicer to look at.
>
> Is that measured output or subjective impression? Not
> arguing--curious. When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
> equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
> research has been at best casual.
Subjectively, the LED lights are brighter than the sodiums. Primarily
because most of light is directed downwards with the LEDs.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403357 is a reply to message #403348] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 11:41 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:14:20 -0600
JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:13:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> It is still different than powering any device in the world (or a big
>> area) from the air filled with "waves".
>
> Since I can download gigabytes of software I have paid for 'over the
> air waves', your claim seems a bit odd.
That says nothing about being able to deliver useful amounts of
energy over long distances to arbitrary locations (nobody knows any way to
do this - two out of three applies) and a great deal about the
sophistication of our data transmission technology.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403358 is a reply to message #403353] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 12:26 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:33:45 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 16:41:37 +0200, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>>
>> Yet you charge your electric toothbrush via wireless induction ...
>
> When I was a kid I had a van de graaf that could light up a
> flourescent tube several feet away. Was cool as Hell. We don't have
> toys like that anymore.
Not unless you build your own - a Whimshurst is perhaps easier to
build at home - we used to have an 18 plate one at school, until the
authorities took it away, it could put a wicked charge on a brass doorknob
(DAMHIK).
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403359 is a reply to message #403349] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 12:18 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is that measured output or subjective impression? Not
> arguing--curious. When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
> equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
> research has been at best casual.
The best efficiency of LED and sodium is about equal (LED is
slightly ahead) at the bulb level. At the system level LEDs pull well ahead
in efficiency but not so far that a 25 Watt LED produces anything like the
same lumens as a 75 Watt sodium light it might get half way there on a good
day.
However the sodium light produces the worst CRI of any common light
source (it's not quite monochrome but it might as well be for all
practical purposes). It takes a lot of light to (not really) make up for the
crappy spectrum so you see better with a lower power white light than a
higher power sodium light.
There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium because
they can see more clearly.
The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things - I'm
seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95 CRI strips.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403360 is a reply to message #403352] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 12:00 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:27:47 -0500
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> The main reason this hasn't been done is cost. If Starship actually
> hits its cost and performance targets that obstacle potentially goes
> away.
Indeed, if that thing does hit those targets it completely
transforms what is feasible to do in space and may well bring microwave or
optical (essentially boosters for ground based solar power installations)
power satellites into the competitive mix. Asteroids will likely come into
the resource picture too. It will also put everyone else out of the launch
business (especially if a thousand of them actually get built) - I expect
there are cheers in a number of boardrooms every time a prototype Starship
(terrible name) blows up unexpectedly.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403361 is a reply to message #403334] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 13:15 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <plcubh-0oh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> You may be not aware that the UK grid is not synchronized with
>> the synchronous grid of Continental Europe.
>
> No, I wasn't :-o
>
> Goes to the Yet Another British Thing department.
>
> Well, use DC transmission under the channel, which is sensible anyway.
That's what they use in the cables that connect the UK with France, Belgium,
and France, and the one under construction to Norway. It seems to be a solved problem.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403362 is a reply to message #403335] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 13:33 |
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Originally posted by: maus
On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>
>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>> interested!"
>
> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
I am worried that it can.
--
greymausg@mail.com
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403366 is a reply to message #403333] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:00 |
John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <iocubh-0oh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> I don't like the idea of massive hydrogen usage. It leaks and is lost
> for ever from the Earth, for instance.
Hydrogen is indeed tricky to store and transport, but I wouldn't worry
about running out. You can find quite a lot of it in the world's oceans.
Also, free hydrogen in the atmosphere is not lost. As this article
notes, it reacts with oxygen and turns back into water. Are you
perhaps confusing it with helium?
https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/hydrogen-economy-might-im pactearths-stratosphere-study-shows-722
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403367 is a reply to message #403348] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:07 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 17.14, JimP wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:13:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 30/12/2020 15.06, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>>>
>>> Well, microwave transmission exists. Of course, it has the drawback that
>>> if you miss the receiver, you end up cooking whatever you hit instead.
>>> Otherwise we could be getting power from the sun via satellites that can
>>> use photovoltaics without the losses from filtering through the
>>> atmosphere.
>>
>> It is still different than powering any device in the world (or a big
>> area) from the air filled with "waves".
>
> Since I can download gigabytes of software I have paid for 'over the
> air waves', your claim seems a bit odd.
Not at all. The power that you receive is negligible, and you have to
supply your own power, several orders of magnitude bigger, to be able to
read those signals you got over the air.
There are very few devices that are "powered over the air", and the
amounts of power they get are tiny.
The oldest is perhaps the "galena radio receiver". Needs an AM radio
station in the vicinity airing perhaps a megawatt of energy.
A modern device example are the "alarm tags" attached to goods at a
shop. The alarm sounds when they try to exit the door. They need an
archway to power them when near enough.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403368 is a reply to message #403358] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:08 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 30/12/2020 17:26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> Not unless you build your own - a Whimshurst is perhaps easier to
> build at home - we used to have an 18 plate one at school, until the
> authorities took it away, it could put a wicked charge on a brass doorknob
> (DAMHIK).
>
Even more if connected to Leyden Jars (Which is what condensers
used to be called before they in their turn were renamed
as capacitors)
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403369 is a reply to message #403366] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:11 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 30/12/2020 19:00, John Levine wrote:
> In article <iocubh-0oh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> I don't like the idea of massive hydrogen usage. It leaks and is lost
>> for ever from the Earth, for instance.
>
> Hydrogen is indeed tricky to store and transport, but I wouldn't worry
> about running out. You can find quite a lot of it in the world's oceans.
>
> Also, free hydrogen in the atmosphere is not lost. As this article
> notes, it reacts with oxygen and turns back into water. Are you
> perhaps confusing it with helium?
>
> https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/hydrogen-economy-might-im pactearths-stratosphere-study-shows-722
>
But, talking of hydrogen, how do we get "buckets" of it without
having to use a lot of fossil fuels to generate the electricity
to separate it from the water?
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403370 is a reply to message #403343] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:10 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 15.46, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>>
>> Yet you charge your electric toothbrush via wireless induction ...
>
> Good point. My phone also charges that way.
Not at all. This effect can only be used at very short distances. I have
forgotten the formula that tells you how the transmitted power
diminishes with distance, but I guess it is cubic.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403371 is a reply to message #403347] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:12 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 17.13, JimP wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 14:44:34 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>>>> > On 29/12/2020 22.35, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> There just isn't the spare _generation_ capacity in the UK to feed
>>>> >> widespread adoption of electric cars.
>>>> >
>>>> > Install it. Simple.
>>>>
>>>> Which kind?
>>>>
>>>> Wind / solar: You don't get to charge your car if it is dark and
>>>> there is no wind (the dreaded "Dunkelflaute") in German.
>>>>
>>>> Reserve gas power stations: These emit a factor of two more CO2
>>>> than combined cycle power stations per kWh (30% efficiency vs >
>>>> 60% efficiency) because the combined cycle is _slow_ in adjusting to
>>>> shifting demands. So, if your wind / solar drops, you need those.
>>>>
>>>> If using wind / solar / reserve gas actually reduces CO2 emissions
>>>> vs. combined cycle gas is anybody's guess, from what I have read, the
>>>> balance is slightly towards more CO2 emission.
>>>>
>>>> Nuclar: Probably better.
>>>>
>>>> Nuclear combined with hydrogen generation from excess wind and
>>>> solar power using steam electrolysis: Much better.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>>
>>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>>> interested!"
>>
>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>
> Its proven, JP Morgan didn't like it becasue he couldn't charge money
> for it.
Proven, where? I have not seen it, ever.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403372 is a reply to message #403344] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:14 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 15.51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:19:54 +0200
> Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it> wrote:
>
>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>
> Assuming (for the moment) that he actually could have delivered the
> wireless transmission of electricity there was nothing about free
> generation of electricity.
>
>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>> interested!"
>
> Reasonable even if the transmission network is free and lossless
> somebody has to pay for the fuel that generates the power and if the
> transmission network provides no means to measure or control usage then
> nobody will pay so effectively Tesla was asking JP Morgan to pay
> everybody's electricity bill.
It could have been paid by taxes. As the TV tax in Britain :-)
No, it simply can not be built.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403373 is a reply to message #403362] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:19 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 30 Dec 2020 18:33:34 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>>
>>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>>> interested!"
>>
>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>
> I am worried that it can.
There isn't any question that it can. Quite a lot of energy is
transferred from the Sun to the Earth without a single wire in site.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403374 is a reply to message #403366] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:22 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 20.00, John Levine wrote:
> In article <iocubh-0oh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> I don't like the idea of massive hydrogen usage. It leaks and is lost
>> for ever from the Earth, for instance.
>
> Hydrogen is indeed tricky to store and transport, but I wouldn't worry
> about running out. You can find quite a lot of it in the world's oceans.
Certainly, but it is still a finite quantity.
>
> Also, free hydrogen in the atmosphere is not lost. As this article
> notes, it reacts with oxygen and turns back into water.
Well, if it can react faster than escaping, then that would not be a
problem.
> Are you
> perhaps confusing it with helium?
No, that's different. Helium would also escape and there are not many
reserves.
>
> https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/hydrogen-economy-might-im pactearths-stratosphere-study-shows-722
>
Interesting. There are other impacts I was not aware of.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403375 is a reply to message #403359] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:25 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 18.18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
....
> There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
> react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium because
> they can see more clearly.
>
> The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things - I'm
> seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95 CRI strips.
95? I can hardly get 90% lamps.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403376 is a reply to message #403356] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:27 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-12-30, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 30 Dec 2020 06:48:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2020-12-29, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do the LEDs give the same amount of light as the 200 watt sodium?
>>>
>>> Dunno about 200-watt sodium, but our 25-watt LEDs give about as much
>>> light as the 70-watt sodiums they replaced. And the light is white,
>>> rather than orange, which is much nicer to look at.
>>
>> Is that measured output or subjective impression? Not
>> arguing--curious. When I compare advertised lumens I'm seeing roughly
>> equivalent for sodium and LED for a given power draw, however my
>> research has been at best casual.
It's strictly subjective. They look about the same to us.
That might be because in the white light it's easier to see things.
> Subjectively, the LED lights are brighter than the sodiums. Primarily
> because most of light is directed downwards with the LEDs.
In our case the wall packs (when off) look identical.
Same manufacturer, same housing, just different guts.
Here's a link to what looks like our old sodium units:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-70-Watt-High-P ressure-Sodium-Black-Wall-Pack-Light-OWP-70S-120-P-LP-BZ-M6/ 202193062
.... and the new LED units:
https://www.grainger.com/product/LITHONIA-LIGHTING-LED-Wall- Pack-489F05
They state that the sodium unit produces 3000 lumens, vs. 2100 for
the LED unit. Rated lifetime is 10,000 hours for the sodium lamp,
vs. 100,000 hours for the LED unit. Our sodium units, installed
in 2005, were starting to fail a couple of years ago; it wasn't
just lamps, but ballasts were dying too.
We had infant mortality on three LEDs. You've probably seen the
failure mode on early high-powered LED fixtures: flickering or
flashing. A couple of our units were doing a good imitation of
a strobe, while the third died completely. The supplier replaced
them with no questions asked, and we've had no further problems.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403377 is a reply to message #403335] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:27 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>
>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>
>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>> interested!"
>
> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
In general, yes. But Apple seems to have a fairly successful
gimmick in their wireless chargers...
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403378 is a reply to message #403326] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 14:27 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-12-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:31:07 -0000 (UTC)
> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> Nuclear combined with hydrogen generation from excess wind and
>> solar power using steam electrolysis: Much better.
>
> This has much to recommend it in principle but hydrogen storage is
> still tricky and the cycle efficiencies are pretty poor compared with
> batteries. That's before you get to the hydrogen == Hindenburg perception
> problem.
That's assuming people even remember the Hindenburg.
Hiroshima is more recent (and spectacular), and there are
plenty of people opposed to that nook-yu-lur stuff. One
editorial pointed out the problem by quoting some hayseed
saying, "We don't want no damn atoms around here!"
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403379 is a reply to message #403368] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:20 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 19:08:59 +0000
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 17:26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>> Not unless you build your own - a Whimshurst is perhaps easier
>> to build at home - we used to have an 18 plate one at school, until the
>> authorities took it away, it could put a wicked charge on a brass
>> doorknob (DAMHIK).
>>
>
> Even more if connected to Leyden Jars (Which is what condensers
> used to be called before they in their turn were renamed
> as capacitors)
The doorknob was a pair of hollow brass (roughly) spheres, it made
quite an effective capacitor for the few minutes before it was discharged.
We had Leyden jars but they were locked away in the equipment room - the
Whimshurst was too big for that and sat in a corner of the lab that was our
room in the sixth form - pure temptation!
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403380 is a reply to message #403369] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:08 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 19:11:21 +0000
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> But, talking of hydrogen, how do we get "buckets" of it without
> having to use a lot of fossil fuels to generate the electricity
> to separate it from the water?
If you look upthread you'll see the suggestion was to use nuclear,
solar and wind as the energy sources.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403381 is a reply to message #403374] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:31 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 20.00, John Levine wrote:
>
>> In article <iocubh-0oh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't like the idea of massive hydrogen usage. It leaks and is lost
>>> for ever from the Earth, for instance.
>>
>> Hydrogen is indeed tricky to store and transport, but I wouldn't worry
>> about running out. You can find quite a lot of it in the world's oceans.
The two most common elements in the known universe
are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
There is more stupidity around than hydrogen
and it has a longer shelf life.
-- Frank Zappa
> Certainly, but it is still a finite quantity.
It's abundant, though, And, as we all know,
abundance justifies waste.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403382 is a reply to message #403367] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:31 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> There are very few devices that are "powered over the air", and the
> amounts of power they get are tiny.
>
> The oldest is perhaps the "galena radio receiver". Needs an AM radio
> station in the vicinity airing perhaps a megawatt of energy.
Not that much. The crystal radio I built powered a telephone
handset with the signal from a nearby station of only a few
kilowatts. Then a station slightly farther away and 100kHz
up the dial upgraded to 50 kilowatts and wiped out the original
station (my radio's selectivity wasn't that great).
I read an article about a self-powered radio with which you'd
tune in a powerful local station on one tuner, which just rectified
the signal and used it to power an amplifier for a second tuner
which pulled in the weaker station you actually wanted to hear.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403384 is a reply to message #403377] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:46 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>
> In general, yes. But Apple seems to have a fairly successful
> gimmick in their wireless chargers...
AIUI, Tesla's notion was some kined of ELF global standing wave from
which anyone, anywhere could tap energy, to be replenished at the
wave-generating source. That (in Tesla's concept) would make distance
from the source irrevelant but the dimensions of the generating
antenna a problem.
I don't think I've seen anything about Tesla's speculation (if any) on
how millions of people/devices randomly tapping the standing wave
would influence the wave form itself.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403385 is a reply to message #403382] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:44 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 21.31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> There are very few devices that are "powered over the air", and the
>> amounts of power they get are tiny.
>>
>> The oldest is perhaps the "galena radio receiver". Needs an AM radio
>> station in the vicinity airing perhaps a megawatt of energy.
>
> Not that much. The crystal radio I built powered a telephone
> handset with the signal from a nearby station of only a few
> kilowatts. Then a station slightly farther away and 100kHz
> up the dial upgraded to 50 kilowatts and wiped out the original
> station (my radio's selectivity wasn't that great).
When I was at school I inherited two or three actual galena receivers
and headsets. I also built one using an OA91 diode. None worked, the
nearest AM station was about 50 Km away. I could only hear electrical
noises when switching on the house lights.
On my first university year at that other city, I tested the receivers
and they worked, using the metal mesh of my bed as antenna.
Much later they built an AM station at my city, and the three receivers
work.
> I read an article about a self-powered radio with which you'd
> tune in a powerful local station on one tuner, which just rectified
> the signal and used it to power an amplifier for a second tuner
> which pulled in the weaker station you actually wanted to hear.
I thought of doing that :-D
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403386 is a reply to message #403377] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:45 |
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 20.27, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>>
>>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>>> interested!"
>>
>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>
> In general, yes. But Apple seems to have a fairly successful
> gimmick in their wireless chargers...
Sure. Very short distance. This method was known long ago.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403387 is a reply to message #403381] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:48 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 30 Dec 2020 20:31:57 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 30/12/2020 20.00, John Levine wrote:
>>
>>> In article <iocubh-0oh.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't like the idea of massive hydrogen usage. It leaks and is lost
>>>> for ever from the Earth, for instance.
>>>
>>> Hydrogen is indeed tricky to store and transport, but I wouldn't worry
>>> about running out. You can find quite a lot of it in the world's oceans.
>
> The two most common elements in the known universe
> are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
>
> There is more stupidity around than hydrogen
> and it has a longer shelf life.
> -- Frank Zappa
>
>> Certainly, but it is still a finite quantity.
>
> It's abundant, though, And, as we all know,
> abundance justifies waste.
Hydrogen is not a chemical energy source on Earth because nearly all
of it is already burned. To use it you have to unburn it first which
means putting energy in. It can be burned and unburned infinitely
many times, so any concern about "using it up" is misplaced.
Where it can be in principle "used up" is if we ever manage to make
fusion work. That transmutes hydrogen to helium. However if we do
that the quantity available is so immense that our civilization and
anything we do will be long forgotten before there is even a small
dent made in the supply. And if we use up all the hydrogen on Earth
we can start on Jupiter, into which Earth can be dropped without
making more than a ripple.
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| Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403388 is a reply to message #403375] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 15:54 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:25:32 +0100
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 18.18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:16:46 -0500
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> There are driver reaction time tests that bear this out, drivers
>> react faster under white LED streetlights than under orange sodium
>> because they can see more clearly.
>>
>> The higher the CRI the better the light is for seeing things -
>> I'm seriously considering replacing some of my 80 CRI strips with 95
>> CRI strips.
>
> 95? I can hardly get 90% lamps.
These are the ones I have in mind, but there are a lot of 95+ CRI
LEDs on the market now including some quaint[1] incandescent lookalikes with
long thin LEDs sort of looking like filaments.
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/MARSWALLED-SMD5630-300LEDs-Daylig ht-Flexible/dp/B07GBQ5MKL/
[1] I find it amusing the way each generation of lighting technology starts
by trying to look like the last before settling down to take advantage of
not doing so. I've always hated standard light fittings dangling from a
cable with a shade (that immediately tells you there's a design error)
collecting dust and always in the wrong place, so this place has long
glowing strips instead - high light levels without bright spots.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403389 is a reply to message #403382] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:08 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 30 Dec 2020 20:31:57 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> There are very few devices that are "powered over the air", and the
>> amounts of power they get are tiny.
>>
>> The oldest is perhaps the "galena radio receiver". Needs an AM radio
>> station in the vicinity airing perhaps a megawatt of energy.
>
> Not that much. The crystal radio I built powered a telephone
> handset with the signal from a nearby station of only a few
> kilowatts. Then a station slightly farther away and 100kHz
> up the dial upgraded to 50 kilowatts and wiped out the original
> station (my radio's selectivity wasn't that great).
>
> I read an article about a self-powered radio with which you'd
> tune in a powerful local station on one tuner, which just rectified
> the signal and used it to power an amplifier for a second tuner
> which pulled in the weaker station you actually wanted to hear.
Crystal radios are actually high tech compared to what Marconi used
for his first transatlantic signals. He used something called a
"coherer" that apparently had to literally be hit with a hammer as a
part of its normal operation.
There is a subset of amateur radio operators who engage in "Crystal
DX"--seeing how far away they can recieve a signal using a crystal
radio. On at least one occasion someone in Hawaii has detected
amateur transmissions from Cuba using such a radio.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403390 is a reply to message #403360] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:20 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 17:00:46 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:27:47 -0500
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The main reason this hasn't been done is cost. If Starship actually
>> hits its cost and performance targets that obstacle potentially goes
>> away.
>
> Indeed, if that thing does hit those targets it completely
> transforms what is feasible to do in space and may well bring microwave or
> optical (essentially boosters for ground based solar power installations)
> power satellites into the competitive mix. Asteroids will likely come into
> the resource picture too. It will also put everyone else out of the launch
> business (especially if a thousand of them actually get built) - I expect
> there are cheers in a number of boardrooms every time a prototype Starship
> (terrible name) blows up unexpectedly.
Painfully terrible name, especially since it isn't a starship, but a
space ship.
--
Jim
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403391 is a reply to message #403367] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:25 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:07:07 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 17.14, JimP wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 15:13:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 30/12/2020 15.06, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>>>> On 2020-12-30, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>>>>
>>>> Well, microwave transmission exists. Of course, it has the drawback that
>>>> if you miss the receiver, you end up cooking whatever you hit instead.
>>>> Otherwise we could be getting power from the sun via satellites that can
>>>> use photovoltaics without the losses from filtering through the
>>>> atmosphere.
>>>
>>> It is still different than powering any device in the world (or a big
>>> area) from the air filled with "waves".
>>
>> Since I can download gigabytes of software I have paid for 'over the
>> air waves', your claim seems a bit odd.
>
> Not at all. The power that you receive is negligible, and you have to
> supply your own power, several orders of magnitude bigger, to be able to
> read those signals you got over the air.
>
>
> There are very few devices that are "powered over the air", and the
> amounts of power they get are tiny.
>
> The oldest is perhaps the "galena radio receiver". Needs an AM radio
> station in the vicinity airing perhaps a megawatt of energy.
The one I had as a kid didn't have a galena crystal, and the AM radio
station wasn't putting out a megawatt. More like 150 kilowatts.
Station was less than 30 miles away. Came in loud and clear.
It was a coil and an earphone. The plastic case was shaped like a
rocket. The tip of the space ship was a metal bolt. Turn it to tune
the radio. Not sure about the price, very likely less than 50 cents.
--
Jim
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403392 is a reply to message #403371] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:27 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:12:11 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/12/2020 17.13, JimP wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 14:44:34 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>>>> >> On 29/12/2020 22.35, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> There just isn't the spare _generation_ capacity in the UK to feed
>>>> >>> widespread adoption of electric cars.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Install it. Simple.
>>>> >
>>>> > Which kind?
>>>> >
>>>> > Wind / solar: You don't get to charge your car if it is dark and
>>>> > there is no wind (the dreaded "Dunkelflaute") in German.
>>>> >
>>>> > Reserve gas power stations: These emit a factor of two more CO2
>>>> > than combined cycle power stations per kWh (30% efficiency vs >
>>>> > 60% efficiency) because the combined cycle is _slow_ in adjusting to
>>>> > shifting demands. So, if your wind / solar drops, you need those.
>>>> >
>>>> > If using wind / solar / reserve gas actually reduces CO2 emissions
>>>> > vs. combined cycle gas is anybody's guess, from what I have read, the
>>>> > balance is slightly towards more CO2 emission.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nuclar: Probably better.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nuclear combined with hydrogen generation from excess wind and
>>>> > solar power using steam electrolysis: Much better.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>>>> brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>>>> woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>>>
>>>> Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>>>> interested!"
>>>
>>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>>
>> Its proven, JP Morgan didn't like it becasue he couldn't charge money
>> for it.
>
> Proven, where? I have not seen it, ever.
A documentary on Science channel about Tesla. They quoted JP Morgan.
--
Jim
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403393 is a reply to message #403380] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:54 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 30/12/2020 20:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 19:11:21 +0000
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> But, talking of hydrogen, how do we get "buckets" of it without
>> having to use a lot of fossil fuels to generate the electricity
>> to separate it from the water?
>
> If you look upthread you'll see the suggestion was to use nuclear,
> solar and wind as the energy sources.
>
When I use the mains electricity I have neither knowledge nor control
over the source of the energy used to generate the electricity
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403394 is a reply to message #403380] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:55 |
|
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 30/12/2020 20:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 19:11:21 +0000
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> But, talking of hydrogen, how do we get "buckets" of it without
>> having to use a lot of fossil fuels to generate the electricity
>> to separate it from the water?
>
> If you look upthread you'll see the suggestion was to use nuclear,
> solar and wind as the energy sources.
>
PS. Can't look upthread as I delete each post on reading it.
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| Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403395 is a reply to message #403392] |
Wed, 30 December 2020 16:57 |
|
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Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.
On 30/12/2020 22.27, JimP wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:12:11 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 30/12/2020 17.13, JimP wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 14:44:34 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 30/12/2020 14.19, Bud Spencer wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, 30 Dec 2020, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>>>> >>> On 29/12/2020 22.35, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> There just isn't the spare _generation_ capacity in the UK to feed
>>>> >>>> widespread adoption of electric cars.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Install it. Simple.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Which kind?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wind / solar: You don't get to charge your car if it is dark and
>>>> >> there is no wind (the dreaded "Dunkelflaute") in German.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Reserve gas power stations: These emit a factor of two more CO2
>>>> >> than combined cycle power stations per kWh (30% efficiency vs >
>>>> >> 60% efficiency) because the combined cycle is _slow_ in adjusting to
>>>> >> shifting demands. So, if your wind / solar drops, you need those.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If using wind / solar / reserve gas actually reduces CO2 emissions
>>>> >> vs. combined cycle gas is anybody's guess, from what I have read, the
>>>> >> balance is slightly towards more CO2 emission.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Nuclar: Probably better.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Nuclear combined with hydrogen generation from excess wind and
>>>> >> solar power using steam electrolysis: Much better.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > And if we would have listened and embraced one Nikola Tesla and his
>>>> > brilliance, we wouldn't have the need to thing about these matter. We
>>>> > woud have free wireless energy everywhere. But no.
>>>> >
>>>> > Like jp morgan said to Tesla "If we cannot put meter on it, we renot
>>>> > interested!"
>>>>
>>>> I believe that wireless energy is just smoke. Can not exist.
>>>
>>> Its proven, JP Morgan didn't like it becasue he couldn't charge money
>>> for it.
>>
>> Proven, where? I have not seen it, ever.
>
> A documentary on Science channel about Tesla. They quoted JP Morgan.
>
LOL
Well, it ain't true, although many folk believe it. Can't be done.
That JP Morgan said he would not finance it, sure, that part is true.
had they tried, they wouldn't be able to make it work.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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