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Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403597 is a reply to message #403535] Sun, 03 January 2021 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>
> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>
>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>> how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>
> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
> suddenly getting good).
>

That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403598 is a reply to message #403547] Sun, 03 January 2021 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2021-01-02, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2 Jan 2021 11:26:36 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>> On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:
>>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> > On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >>> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>> >>>> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> after the war, and supplied those things to various governments,
>>> including the Irish, which used them.
>>>
>>> There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end.
>>> Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the
>>> Americans in developing Computers.
>>>
>>> (I am also aware that many of those who worked at Enigma decryption went
>>> on to work at general development. )
>>>
>>> At the present time I would think that there is no reason to bother much
>>> with encryptation, as the various government can read such messages
>>> easily
>>
>> One time pads. I see mention of them from time to time on historical
>> methods documentaries. And whatever those number stations are. Yes,
>> they still exist.
>>
>>
>
> I think it was in one of Neil Stephonson books that I read a story of
> how the germens noticed a pattern in one time pads, and the story leaked
> back to England, where a check was made, and it was discovered that the
> lady involved in writing them showed a fondness for some numbers. It
> seems to be very hard to produce really random numbers. I believe that
> there are stores of one time pad crypted messages from even the
> Eisenhower years that have not been broken.
>

The important point is the “one time.” You need a lot of messages with the
same encryption to break the code. If you only have one message it’s a lot
harder.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403599 is a reply to message #403552] Sun, 03 January 2021 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:58:00 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 13:04:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> >> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>> Or five times a more reasonable estimate meaning that a 20%
>>>> >>>> increase would cover it - which doesn't sound unreasonable even if you
>>>> >>>> push it to 30% and have people averaging 50 miles a day.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why is it an unreasonable estimate? Usage on electric cars is
>>>> >> different from gas cars. Instead of going to the gas station every so
>>>> >> often, people come home and plug in. So every afternoon every car
>>>> >> that was used for a daily commute will be plugged in and hit the grid.
>>>> >
>>>> > And while you're shopping, many malls provide a charging station. For
>>>> > most people, unless they live in the Death Valley or other very remote
>>>> > areas, driving an EV should not cause fears anymore "running out of juice".
>>>>
>>>> I’ve seen a few charging stations, but IME just a few in a parking lot big
>>>> enough for hundreds of cars. It’s ALMOST like no one in government has
>>>> thought this thru.
>>>
>>> I'm not aware the government has anything to do with charging stations.
>>> I thought I just read about a new station with 73 stalls, but all
>>> I could find is this one with 56 stalls:
>>>
>>> https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/tesla-building-new-worlds-lar gest-supercharger-station/
>>>
>>> I've seen charging stations along the NJ Garden State Parkway. That's not the
>>> government either.
>>>
>>> The government provides a tax incentive:
>>>
>>> Federal Tax Credits
>>>
>>> The federal government provides a substantial tax credit for new battery
>>> electric and plug-in hybrid EVs, ranging from $2,500 - $7,500, depending
>>> on the capacity of the EV's battery.
>>>
>>> Of course we all know the government provides incentives to the gas
>>> industry too.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and how
>> they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>
> Why is this the job of government? I don't notice government building
> gas stations (leaving aside the ones on military bases and the like)
> and yet there are many of them within 10 miles of where I live and few
> areas in the US that do not have one within easy driving distance.

There needs to be a nationwide plan - not a straitjacket, but some goals
and guidelines. The problem with the current COVID vaccination program is
that there’s ho real plan: feds encourage and support development of
vaccines and then turn them over to the states (“there, we’ve done our
part”) Many states son’t have a clue and turn the job over to counties
and cities, who know even less. If you provide some guidelines than the
states can either follow them or not, but at least they have a place to
start.

>
>> Before EVs can be widely used in a particular area there have to be enough
>> stations.
>
> Actually they don't. The thing about an EV is that it does not need a
> commercial "station" for normal operation. I have never charged my EV
> at a commercial station. My employer provides a charger at work, I
> have one at home, I charge it using one or the other or both of those.

Great for you, the hell with everybody else.

>
>> They also have to be accessible from the interstates. I have
>> driven cross-country several times, and some parts are pretty sparsely
>> inhabited.
>
> This is already dealt with to some extent. There are more than 1000
> Tesla supercharger stations in the US with a total of over 20,000
> chargers, and there are more than 20,000 commercial EV charging
> stations overall, with more to come. However a Supercharger still
> needs an hour to charge and most of the other charging stations take 8
> hours or so.
>
>> In a day’s drive I’d have to be able to recharge at least once
>> en route. This assumes the motel has a charger available per room for an
>> overnight charge. I’m not going to take a long trip unless I know charging
>> is as quick and convenient as getting gas.
>>
>> I also keep bringing up,the problem of condo/apartment dwellers. I don’t
>> have a garage, and where I am there is no on-street parking or meters.
>
> This is a real concern. This is one place where government might have
> a role, requiring owners of apartment building and the like to provide
> chargers.
>
> Understand though that a charger is nothing particular special. It's
> a box you get off of Amazon for a couple of hundred bucks and can be
> plugged into an extension cord. It's not "supposed" to be used that
> way but it nonetheless works fine.

>
>> I
>> don’t work, so, I can’t recharge there. Installing chargers at every
>> parking place would be fantastically expensive for any expected return.
>> When I shop, assuming there was an available charger, I’m not usually in
>> the store long enough.
>
> I'm not sure if it would be "fantastically expensive" or not, but
> somebody should run the numbers.
>

I asked here a while ago about getting security cameras install in the
parking lots. The board had already looked into it, and I forget how many
thousand dollars it would cost. This is cameras, which use minimal power
and can communicate by wi-fi. Digging up all the parking lots to run new
power cables for chargers sounds like a big job.

This might be similar to the utilities subsidizing solar power
installation. If someone subsidized charger installation so it could be
paid off in ten or twenty-five years, then, sure, it might work.


--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403600 is a reply to message #403553] Sun, 03 January 2021 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:58:00 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 13:04:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> >>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>> Or five times a more reasonable estimate meaning that a 20%
>>>> >>>>> increase would cover it - which doesn't sound unreasonable even if you
>>>> >>>>> push it to 30% and have people averaging 50 miles a day.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Why is it an unreasonable estimate? Usage on electric cars is
>>>> >>> different from gas cars. Instead of going to the gas station every so
>>>> >>> often, people come home and plug in. So every afternoon every car
>>>> >>> that was used for a daily commute will be plugged in and hit the grid.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And while you're shopping, many malls provide a charging station. For
>>>> >> most people, unless they live in the Death Valley or other very remote
>>>> >> areas, driving an EV should not cause fears anymore "running out of juice".
>>>> >
>>>> > I’ve seen a few charging stations, but IME just a few in a parking lot big
>>>> > enough for hundreds of cars. It’s ALMOST like no one in government has
>>>> > thought this thru.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not aware the government has anything to do with charging stations.
>>>> I thought I just read about a new station with 73 stalls, but all
>>>> I could find is this one with 56 stalls:
>>>>
>>>> https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/tesla-building-new-worlds-lar gest-supercharger-station/
>>>>
>>>> I've seen charging stations along the NJ Garden State Parkway. That's not the
>>>> government either.
>>>>
>>>> The government provides a tax incentive:
>>>>
>>>> Federal Tax Credits
>>>>
>>>> The federal government provides a substantial tax credit for new battery
>>>> electric and plug-in hybrid EVs, ranging from $2,500 - $7,500, depending
>>>> on the capacity of the EV's battery.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we all know the government provides incentives to the gas
>>>> industry too.
>>>
>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and how
>>> they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>
>> Not sure I agree.
>>
>>> Before EVs can be widely used in a particular area there have to be enough
>>> stations. They also have to be accessible from the interstates. I have
>>> driven cross-country several times, and some parts are pretty sparsely
>>> inhabited. In a day’s drive I’d have to be able to recharge at least once
>>> en route. This assumes the motel has a charger available per room for an
>>> overnight charge. I’m not going to take a long trip unless I know charging
>>> is as quick and convenient as getting gas.
>>>
>>> I also keep bringing up,the problem of condo/apartment dwellers. I don’t
>>> have a garage, and where I am there is no on-street parking or meters. I
>>> don’t work, so, I can’t recharge there. Installing chargers at every
>>> parking place would be fantastically expensive for any expected return.
>>> When I shop, assuming there was an available charger, I’m not usually in
>>> the store long enough.
>>
>> Sounds like you want to have the government plan things instead of
>> what we are doing now, letting the free market do the planning.
>> Tesla knew it had to have a certain number of chargers around in order
>> to sell cars. If they want to sell more cars, they need more chargers.
>>
>> For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>> You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
>
> This is a good point. Could also deal with on-street-parking bans--it
> goes off and drives around during the banned period.
>
>> I've read about people taking cross country trips in their Teslas.
>> It sounds like it's quite easy.
>
> For me it would be annoying--driving cross-country I'm generally
> driving to get somewhere, not driving for the sake of driving, and
> those hour-long pitstops would be a pain.
>
>> The car tells you how much charge you
>> have and where you should go next for your charge. Except for the
>> longer stay at the charging point, it sounds even easier than it is
>> for a gas vehicle. It's certainly easier if you are heading to
>> a hotel/motel for the night. Instead of having to go to a gas station
>> then the motel, it directs you to a motel with a charging station.
>> One stop instead of 2.
>
> This assumes that there is such a motel in a reasonably accessible
> location.
>
>> I still don't accept that having lots of street chargers is
>> fantastically expensive. This will be done over a long period of time.
>> California's plan sets 2035 as the goal year. When I hear plans like
>> this I know some people see doom. I figure if there are problems,
>> the plan changes. Just a question of outlook I suppose.
>
> The problem with California is that they don't have enough electrical
> capacity for the existing load (of course they sell this as an "energy
> shortage" instead of admitting that the real problem is that the
> government's head is up its butt in the matter of licensing new power
> plants).
>

And infrastructure. Recent wildfires have shown that the grid is grossly
undersized for peak loads, and the maintenance is terrible.


--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403603 is a reply to message #403597] Sun, 03 January 2021 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>
>> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
>> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>>
>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>>> how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>
>> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
>> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
>> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
>> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
>> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
>> suddenly getting good).
>
> That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
> incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.

Fiasco?

For me those CFLs worked great. No check that, those CFLs are still
working great. I used to replace the incandescents in my driveway
lamp every year or 2. I'm going on 20 years now with those CFL bulbs
in that lamp.

I have a few others around the house. I haven't replaced any of them
for at least 5-10 years.

I wish all my fiascos were like this.

--
Dan Espen
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403604 is a reply to message #403574] Sun, 03 January 2021 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 18:16:46 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 15:17:11 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 14:43:42 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > In article <rsqemu$1hs$1@dont-email.me> you write:
>>>> >>On long drives it's not unusual for me to stop at a rest stop
>>>> >>buy some apples and eat them while driving. I often loose a few pounds
>>>> >>in the process.
>>>> >
>>>> > Hm. Sounds messy and potentially fairly unpleasant.
>>>>
>>>> Well, apples or bananas so I don't leave crumbs everywhere.
>>>> Also plastic bag to hold the remains. So, not too messy.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what's unpleasant about it.
>>>> I don't really enjoy sitting in a fast food place.
>>>
>>> Why would you do that? They've had drive-through windows since at
>>> least the late '60s.
>>
>> Yeah, I don't like drive through much either. I don't hear well,
>> don't know the menu and I'm under pressure to order.
>
> There are three chains you are likely to deal with--McDonalds, Burger
> King, and Wendys. There are other regional chains but in the US you
> can pretty much count on those three. Taco Bell is also ubiquitous
> but their food is not driving-friendly. Memorize an order for each
> and you're set. "Quarter Pounder with Cheese, medium fries and large
> coke", "Cheese Whopper no onion or pickle with mediumn fries and large
> coke", and "Son of baconator with medium fries and large coke" should
> cover you.
>
> And you basically have one bag, one cup, and whatever fries you drop
> to clean up.

[snip]

Hmmm. Some burger places these days; put mustard, ketchup, and
mayonaise on any burgers ordered unless they are told otherwise.
Blech. I know Dairy Queen does. But the ones I grew up near, their
shakes were good, avoid their food. Unless it was a Frito pie, and I
don't think they sell those anymore.


--
Jim
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403605 is a reply to message #403587] Sun, 03 January 2021 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 23:25:30 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 12:35:32 -0600, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Climate changes whether you believe it does or not.
>
> Climate also changes whether you wave dead chickens and shout mantras
> or not.

Exactly.

--
Jim
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403608 is a reply to message #403600] Sun, 03 January 2021 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 08:07:39 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:58:00 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 13:04:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> >>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Or five times a more reasonable estimate meaning that a 20%
>>>> >>>>>> increase would cover it - which doesn't sound unreasonable even if you
>>>> >>>>>> push it to 30% and have people averaging 50 miles a day.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Why is it an unreasonable estimate? Usage on electric cars is
>>>> >>>> different from gas cars. Instead of going to the gas station every so
>>>> >>>> often, people come home and plug in. So every afternoon every car
>>>> >>>> that was used for a daily commute will be plugged in and hit the grid.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> And while you're shopping, many malls provide a charging station. For
>>>> >>> most people, unless they live in the Death Valley or other very remote
>>>> >>> areas, driving an EV should not cause fears anymore "running out of juice".
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I’ve seen a few charging stations, but IME just a few in a parking lot big
>>>> >> enough for hundreds of cars. It’s ALMOST like no one in government has
>>>> >> thought this thru.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm not aware the government has anything to do with charging stations.
>>>> > I thought I just read about a new station with 73 stalls, but all
>>>> > I could find is this one with 56 stalls:
>>>> >
>>>> > https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/tesla-building-new-worlds-lar gest-supercharger-station/
>>>> >
>>>> > I've seen charging stations along the NJ Garden State Parkway. That's not the
>>>> > government either.
>>>> >
>>>> > The government provides a tax incentive:
>>>> >
>>>> > Federal Tax Credits
>>>> >
>>>> > The federal government provides a substantial tax credit for new battery
>>>> > electric and plug-in hybrid EVs, ranging from $2,500 - $7,500, depending
>>>> > on the capacity of the EV's battery.
>>>> >
>>>> > Of course we all know the government provides incentives to the gas
>>>> > industry too.
>>>>
>>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and how
>>>> they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>>
>>> Not sure I agree.
>>>
>>>> Before EVs can be widely used in a particular area there have to be enough
>>>> stations. They also have to be accessible from the interstates. I have
>>>> driven cross-country several times, and some parts are pretty sparsely
>>>> inhabited. In a day’s drive I’d have to be able to recharge at least once
>>>> en route. This assumes the motel has a charger available per room for an
>>>> overnight charge. I’m not going to take a long trip unless I know charging
>>>> is as quick and convenient as getting gas.
>>>>
>>>> I also keep bringing up,the problem of condo/apartment dwellers. I don’t
>>>> have a garage, and where I am there is no on-street parking or meters. I
>>>> don’t work, so, I can’t recharge there. Installing chargers at every
>>>> parking place would be fantastically expensive for any expected return.
>>>> When I shop, assuming there was an available charger, I’m not usually in
>>>> the store long enough.
>>>
>>> Sounds like you want to have the government plan things instead of
>>> what we are doing now, letting the free market do the planning.
>>> Tesla knew it had to have a certain number of chargers around in order
>>> to sell cars. If they want to sell more cars, they need more chargers.
>>>
>>> For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>>> You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
>>
>> This is a good point. Could also deal with on-street-parking bans--it
>> goes off and drives around during the banned period.
>>
>>> I've read about people taking cross country trips in their Teslas.
>>> It sounds like it's quite easy.
>>
>> For me it would be annoying--driving cross-country I'm generally
>> driving to get somewhere, not driving for the sake of driving, and
>> those hour-long pitstops would be a pain.
>>
>>> The car tells you how much charge you
>>> have and where you should go next for your charge. Except for the
>>> longer stay at the charging point, it sounds even easier than it is
>>> for a gas vehicle. It's certainly easier if you are heading to
>>> a hotel/motel for the night. Instead of having to go to a gas station
>>> then the motel, it directs you to a motel with a charging station.
>>> One stop instead of 2.
>>
>> This assumes that there is such a motel in a reasonably accessible
>> location.
>>
>>> I still don't accept that having lots of street chargers is
>>> fantastically expensive. This will be done over a long period of time.
>>> California's plan sets 2035 as the goal year. When I hear plans like
>>> this I know some people see doom. I figure if there are problems,
>>> the plan changes. Just a question of outlook I suppose.
>>
>> The problem with California is that they don't have enough electrical
>> capacity for the existing load (of course they sell this as an "energy
>> shortage" instead of admitting that the real problem is that the
>> government's head is up its butt in the matter of licensing new power
>> plants).
>>
>
> And infrastructure. Recent wildfires have shown that the grid is grossly
> undersized for peak loads, and the maintenance is terrible.

Yep. Big part of the cause is that in order to "provide a competitive
environment" PG&E was forced to divest its generating capacity and
then buy power from the companies to which it divested.

I have never understood the logic by which it is supposed to be
cheaper for a power company to buy power than to generate their own.
But that seems to be happening everywhere.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403609 is a reply to message #403597] Sun, 03 January 2021 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 08:07:36 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>
>> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
>> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>>
>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>>> how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>
>> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
>> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
>> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
>> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
>> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
>> suddenly getting good).
>>
>
> That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
> incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.

And that's the big problem with do-gooders nagging the government to
"do something right now".

Having played with Philips Hue a little bit, it is my intention to
replace all my existing bulbs with Hue, which leave me the problem of
disposing of the damned CFs, which in CT are "hazardous waste" that
has to be disposed of on the four hours of the year in which the
"hazardous waste" center is open.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403610 is a reply to message #403599] Sun, 03 January 2021 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 08:07:38 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:58:00 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 13:04:14 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> >>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>> Or five times a more reasonable estimate meaning that a 20%
>>>> >>>>> increase would cover it - which doesn't sound unreasonable even if you
>>>> >>>>> push it to 30% and have people averaging 50 miles a day.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Why is it an unreasonable estimate? Usage on electric cars is
>>>> >>> different from gas cars. Instead of going to the gas station every so
>>>> >>> often, people come home and plug in. So every afternoon every car
>>>> >>> that was used for a daily commute will be plugged in and hit the grid.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And while you're shopping, many malls provide a charging station. For
>>>> >> most people, unless they live in the Death Valley or other very remote
>>>> >> areas, driving an EV should not cause fears anymore "running out of juice".
>>>> >
>>>> > I’ve seen a few charging stations, but IME just a few in a parking lot big
>>>> > enough for hundreds of cars. It’s ALMOST like no one in government has
>>>> > thought this thru.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not aware the government has anything to do with charging stations.
>>>> I thought I just read about a new station with 73 stalls, but all
>>>> I could find is this one with 56 stalls:
>>>>
>>>> https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/tesla-building-new-worlds-lar gest-supercharger-station/
>>>>
>>>> I've seen charging stations along the NJ Garden State Parkway. That's not the
>>>> government either.
>>>>
>>>> The government provides a tax incentive:
>>>>
>>>> Federal Tax Credits
>>>>
>>>> The federal government provides a substantial tax credit for new battery
>>>> electric and plug-in hybrid EVs, ranging from $2,500 - $7,500, depending
>>>> on the capacity of the EV's battery.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we all know the government provides incentives to the gas
>>>> industry too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and how
>>> they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>
>> Why is this the job of government? I don't notice government building
>> gas stations (leaving aside the ones on military bases and the like)
>> and yet there are many of them within 10 miles of where I live and few
>> areas in the US that do not have one within easy driving distance.
>
> There needs to be a nationwide plan - not a straitjacket, but some goals
> and guidelines. The problem with the current COVID vaccination program is
> that there’s ho real plan: feds encourage and support development of
> vaccines and then turn them over to the states (“there, we’ve done our
> part”) Many states son’t have a clue and turn the job over to counties
> and cities, who know even less. If you provide some guidelines than the
> states can either follow them or not, but at least they have a place to
> start.

COVID is a bonafied emergency. People are dying right now today. The
government is fairly good with emergencies as long as there isn't a
moron on top screwing up the works. Whatever is done to distribute
vaccine is one and done, once everybody's vaccinated and it becomes
part of the standard vaccination program, it's over.

Electric cars are not one and done. You're talking about two related
industries, automobiles and the provision of power for same. And
right now the technology is still developing, so something the
government does now may be obsolete in five years. Further, there are
a number of very large very capable manufacturing companies which at
this time have a vested interest in making electric cars work, so you
can pretty much count on the infrastructure being rolled out without
the government having to do anything except not create an obstacle.

>>> Before EVs can be widely used in a particular area there have to be enough
>>> stations.
>>
>> Actually they don't. The thing about an EV is that it does not need a
>> commercial "station" for normal operation. I have never charged my EV
>> at a commercial station. My employer provides a charger at work, I
>> have one at home, I charge it using one or the other or both of those.
>
> Great for you, the hell with everybody else.

70 percent of the US population lives in single-family detached
houses. They can all do exactly the same thing that I do. People who
live in apartments may or may not have a problem depending on their
particular circumstances and for them some limited degree of
government intervention might be in order to force landlords to
provide chargers.

>>> They also have to be accessible from the interstates. I have
>>> driven cross-country several times, and some parts are pretty sparsely
>>> inhabited.
>>
>> This is already dealt with to some extent. There are more than 1000
>> Tesla supercharger stations in the US with a total of over 20,000
>> chargers, and there are more than 20,000 commercial EV charging
>> stations overall, with more to come. However a Supercharger still
>> needs an hour to charge and most of the other charging stations take 8
>> hours or so.
>>
>>> In a day’s drive I’d have to be able to recharge at least once
>>> en route. This assumes the motel has a charger available per room for an
>>> overnight charge. I’m not going to take a long trip unless I know charging
>>> is as quick and convenient as getting gas.
>>>
>>> I also keep bringing up,the problem of condo/apartment dwellers. I don’t
>>> have a garage, and where I am there is no on-street parking or meters.
>>
>> This is a real concern. This is one place where government might have
>> a role, requiring owners of apartment building and the like to provide
>> chargers.
>>
>> Understand though that a charger is nothing particular special. It's
>> a box you get off of Amazon for a couple of hundred bucks and can be
>> plugged into an extension cord. It's not "supposed" to be used that
>> way but it nonetheless works fine.
>
>>
>>> I
>>> don’t work, so, I can’t recharge there. Installing chargers at every
>>> parking place would be fantastically expensive for any expected return.
>>> When I shop, assuming there was an available charger, I’m not usually in
>>> the store long enough.
>>
>> I'm not sure if it would be "fantastically expensive" or not, but
>> somebody should run the numbers.
>>
>
> I asked here a while ago about getting security cameras install in the
> parking lots. The board had already looked into it, and I forget how many
> thousand dollars it would cost. This is cameras, which use minimal power
> and can communicate by wi-fi. Digging up all the parking lots to run new
> power cables for chargers sounds like a big job.
>
> This might be similar to the utilities subsidizing solar power
> installation. If someone subsidized charger installation so it could be
> paid off in ten or twenty-five years, then, sure, it might work.

Or put a meter on the charger and charge for the use.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403611 is a reply to message #403603] Sun, 03 January 2021 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 11:51:21 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
>>> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>>>
>>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>>>> how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>>
>>> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
>>> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
>>> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
>>> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
>>> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
>>> suddenly getting good).
>>
>> That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
>> incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.
>
> Fiasco?
>
> For me those CFLs worked great. No check that, those CFLs are still
> working great. I used to replace the incandescents in my driveway
> lamp every year or 2. I'm going on 20 years now with those CFL bulbs
> in that lamp.
>
> I have a few others around the house. I haven't replaced any of them
> for at least 5-10 years.
>
> I wish all my fiascos were like this.

You got lucky. I think I've finally run out the infant mortality on
my CFs but I am going to ditch them anyway because as light sources
they are utter crap.

An LED reflector flood is no such thing--it is shaped like one but the
huge emitter means that actual focused projection is not possible--LED
reflector floods really are, with shaped beam patterns and the whole
nine yeard. CFs in the chandelier look like Hell. LEDs look like
filament bulbs--same for the clear globes in the bathroom. And that
leaves totally aside the controllability. CFs are hit and miss on
dimmers, LEDs don't _need_ no steenkeeng _dimmers_. And they have a
lot more tricks than "dim".

So yes, CFs were the result of do-gooders demanding that the
government do something right now so poeple are stuck with crappy
light bulbs that present a disposal problem when light bulbs that
actually were superior to incandescent in every regard were right
around the corner.
Re: Enigma and early computers [message #403612 is a reply to message #403529] Sun, 03 January 2021 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: antispam

maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2021-01-01, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl <antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>> On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 31 Dec 2020 18:47:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >On 2020-12-31, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:22:37 -0500, J. Clarke
>>>> >><jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >beeen made of the Polish Army having taken over a small part of
>>>> >Czechslovakia at the same time the germans did take over large bits.
>>>>
>>>> True, I did find an English translation of Guderian's book on the
>>>> Eastern Front just recently. Not so much informative, but he doesn't
>> content of some messages were easily guessable
>> and recoverd keys could be used to decrypt other
>> messages.
>>
>> Before WWII Polish build few machines (called "bomb")
>> to do brute-forcing. British build more and bigger.
>> Polish machines were electro-mechanical. Later
>> British ones are described as electronic (but details
>> are scarce). I found an intersting tidbit: around
>> 1942 Americans build their electro-mechanical machines.
>> One technical detail I found was that they operated
>> at 1500 RPM. My understanding is that single rotation
>> goes trough 26 machine positions, so the American machine
>> could go trough (check) 650 position per second. That
>> looks like impressive speed for electro-mechanical device.
>>
>>
>
> We are in general agreement, I think, that it took several countries to
> decypher the variety of machines that the Germns were so confident of
> being secure.
>
> I have heard that why the weakness of the Enigmas was hiddent for so
> many years was that a company in Switzerland made and sold Enigmas
> after the war, and supplied those things to various governments,
> including the Irish, which used them.

AFAIK Swiss and Spain used machines build on the same principles
as Enigma. During WWII also Japanese and Italian machines.
However, I think that main reason was USSR. Already during
war Americans and British provided help to USSR, but kept
few best inventions to themself. After war there was a
deliberate policy to block transfer of advanced knowlege
and technology to USSR, especially of military technologies.
I do not know when USSR started using encrption machines
and if they were releated to Enigma. But keeping Enigma
secret could be justified on general principles: knowlege
about Enigma would likely advance soviet cryptology and
result in better ciphers.

>
> There is the story that the british destroyed their bombes at wars end.
> Why?.. destroying them meant that the Briotish never caught up with the
> Americans in developing Computers.

I read in biography of Turing that he made computer proposal
including similar technology to that used at Bletchey.
Proposal was rejected, and reviewer said that it required
unrealistically advanced electrical/electronic technology.
Due to secrecy Turing could not say that this technology
already existed and worked well in Bletchey...

OTOH main obstacle to working computers was memory. Zuse
used mechanical memory, which is slow. Atanasoff used
rotating disc containing several capacitors, looks slow
and complicated. ENIAC tried brute-force, that is
electronic memory from vacuum tubes. Quite expensive
and due to frequent tube failures did not work so
well. It seems that most of successful early machines
used delay lines and minority Wiliams tubes. It
is not clear for me if Turing proposed anything
interesting for memory.

To put is differently, a lot of folks were able to do
simple 1-bit ALU and were aware that coupled with
memory such device could compute quite a lot. But
without memory 1-bit ALU is essentialy useless.

--
Waldek Hebisch
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403616 is a reply to message #403373] Sun, 03 January 2021 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 30/12/2020 19:19, J. Clarke wrote:
> There isn't any question that it can. Quite a lot of energy is
> transferred from the Sun to the Earth without a single wire in site.

ITYF the efficiency is fairly low... That doesn't matter for solar as
the energy is free and mostly wasted. It would matter for any other
energy source.

Andy
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403617 is a reply to message #403610] Sun, 03 January 2021 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:

> COVID is a bonafied emergency. People are dying right now today.

Do you actually have more than normal deaths in the US? In the flu
season of 2018, we had 5000 extra deaths a week in Germany, that
was _really_ bad. Compared to that, Covid-19's impact on deaths
here has been small to statistically insignificant.
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403621 is a reply to message #403616] Sun, 03 January 2021 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 21:27:42 +0000
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/12/2020 19:19, J. Clarke wrote:
>> There isn't any question that it can. Quite a lot of energy is
>> transferred from the Sun to the Earth without a single wire in site.
>
> ITYF the efficiency is fairly low...

Nope, there's very little loss between the sun and the top of the
atmosphere, after that the losses do start to mount up and of course
conversion to electricity tends to be pretty lossy. Of course the vast
majority of the output of the sun isn't headed our way, which is just as
well.

> That doesn't matter for solar as
> the energy is free and mostly wasted. It would matter for any other
> energy source.

There's not much loss in a laser which is the principle behind
laser launch systems, the inconvenient part is that there's a lot of loss
between electricity and laser light but the actual wireless free space
energy transfer is pretty efficient even in air.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403622 is a reply to message #403617] Sun, 03 January 2021 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elliott Roper is currently offline  Elliott Roper
Messages: 129
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 3 Jan 2021 at 21:35:53 GMT, "Thomas Koenig" <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

> J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> COVID is a bonafied emergency. People are dying right now today.
>
> Do you actually have more than normal deaths in the US? In the flu
> season of 2018, we had 5000 extra deaths a week in Germany, that
> was _really_ bad. Compared to that, Covid-19's impact on deaths
> here has been small to statistically insignificant.

On the most recent figures I can find readily to hand...
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
Nov-6-2020 US Excess mortality over the average 2015-2019 mortality is 10,000
per week.

Think of it as two twin-towers incidents every week. Not at all significant
huh? Statistically significant?
Is 20% smaller than the commonly accepted 5% ?

Germany's excess deaths on Nov-6 were 7% (from the same source)
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Re: dim bulbs, not car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403623 is a reply to message #403611] Sun, 03 January 2021 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <tf34vfh6hvp6ibf066piac3a1bvu46bdov@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For me those CFLs worked great. No check that, those CFLs are still
>> working great. ...

> You got lucky. I think I've finally run out the infant mortality on
> my CFs but I am going to ditch them anyway because as light sources
> they are utter crap.

Agreed. Most of the CFs I bought failed long before they were supposed
to, but that's OK because LEDs are so much better.

Now I just have to find when the county's next toxic waste disposal day is
for my bag full of dead CFs



--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers [message #403624 is a reply to message #403612] Sun, 03 January 2021 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <rst6ra$3cr$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> you write:
> I read in biography of Turing that he made computer proposal
> including similar technology to that used at Bletchey.
> Proposal was rejected, and reviewer said that it required
> unrealistically advanced electrical/electronic technology.
> Due to secrecy Turing could not say that this technology
> already existed and worked well in Bletchey...

Right, that was the ACE.

> OTOH main obstacle to working computers was memory. Zuse
> used mechanical memory, which is slow. Atanasoff used
> rotating disc containing several capacitors, looks slow
> and complicated. ENIAC tried brute-force, that is
> electronic memory from vacuum tubes. Quite expensive
> and due to frequent tube failures did not work so
> well. It seems that most of successful early machines
> used delay lines and minority Wiliams tubes. ...

Williams tubes never worked very well. The Selectron was a better
design for vacuum tube memory but was hard to manufacture so only one
Selectron computer, the RAND Corp's JOHNNIAC, used them before core
memory made them obsolete.

Delay lines worked OK but were a pain to program because you had to
sprinkle your programs around the memory to try and minimize the
delay. A few computers like the IBM 650 had very fast drum main memory
(12500 RPM) which had the same delay problem, somewhat mitigated by
optimizing assemblers that did most of the sprinkling for you.

In my youth I programmed a Packard Bell 250 (the real Packard Bell,
not the later Korean PC clone maker) with magnetostrictive delay line
memory. We sketched the programs out on big pieces of paper.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403626 is a reply to message #403616] Sun, 03 January 2021 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 21:27:42 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/12/2020 19:19, J. Clarke wrote:
>> There isn't any question that it can. Quite a lot of energy is
>> transferred from the Sun to the Earth without a single wire in site.
>
> ITYF the efficiency is fairly low...

Define "efficiency" in this context.

> That doesn't matter for solar as
> the energy is free and mostly wasted. It would matter for any other
> energy source.

With '80s technology 85% was demonstrated in one experiment using
microwaves. Whether that will scale and whether it can be improved
upon are open questions.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403628 is a reply to message #403622] Sun, 03 January 2021 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 22:13:38 +0000 (UTC), Elliott Roper
<nospam@yrl.co.uk> wrote:

> On 3 Jan 2021 at 21:35:53 GMT, "Thomas Koenig" <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> COVID is a bonafied emergency. People are dying right now today.
>>
>> Do you actually have more than normal deaths in the US? In the flu
>> season of 2018, we had 5000 extra deaths a week in Germany, that
>> was _really_ bad. Compared to that, Covid-19's impact on deaths
>> here has been small to statistically insignificant.
>
> On the most recent figures I can find readily to hand...
> https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
> Nov-6-2020 US Excess mortality over the average 2015-2019 mortality is 10,000
> per week.
>
> Think of it as two twin-towers incidents every week. Not at all significant
> huh? Statistically significant?
> Is 20% smaller than the commonly accepted 5% ?
>
> Germany's excess deaths on Nov-6 were 7% (from the same source)

According to the Centers for Disease Control there have been 349,246
deaths from COVID-19 so far in the US. In 2018, the most recent year
for which all-causes statistics are available, 2.8 million died, so
that's about 12.5% of all deaths.

Or looking at it another way, it's nearly a thousand a day.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403630 is a reply to message #403568] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:50:01 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For apartment dwellers, the self driving vehicle may come into play.
>> You get out of the car and it goes and finds it's charger.
>
> That kind of self-driving car is a pipe dream. We won't see them in our life
> time. Barring radical changes across the entire transportation infrastructure,
> self-driving vehicles will only be viable in limited, closed environments.
>

My thought, though, is that self-driving cars don’t have yo be perfect,
they just have to be at least as good as human drivers. Seeing the way most
people drive, I’d say that’s not a hard job.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403631 is a reply to message #403577] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> If you want to have some fun of that nature some time, have the GPS
>> take you somewhere a good distance off avoiding highways. My favorite
>> there is the time that it took me down a nice residential street, that
>> turned into a road of increasing degrees of roughness, and on to
>> broken pavement, and dirt, and finally a cowpath that led to a fence
>> with a hole cut in it. I was on a dual-sport, I could have gone
>> through the fence, but the bull in the pasture and the rather glum
>> looking farmer with a shotgun were significant deterrents.
>
> I had a similar experience.
> This time I was exploring Vermont.
>
> I was using the GPS to get me to the next town.
> The GPS lead me though some rural roads and eventually up someones
> driveway into the woods where the road stopped completely.

nearly the same experience once in Vermont, but fortunately the road didn’t
end entirely. It went from dirt back to gravel, and finally back to
pavement. MIL in car got scared, though.

>
> So I tried to use the GPS to get back on a major road
> where it lead me around in circles.
>
> Eventually I stopped and took a good look at the display.
> Turned out the whole valley I was in had no signal.
> Why it was leading me down roads I have no idea.
>
> It was sort of fun but I was low on gas.
>
> Vermont is a beautiful state.
>



--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403632 is a reply to message #403578] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 19:46:12 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> If you want to have some fun of that nature some time, have the GPS
>>> take you somewhere a good distance off avoiding highways. My favorite
>>> there is the time that it took me down a nice residential street, that
>>> turned into a road of increasing degrees of roughness, and on to
>>> broken pavement, and dirt, and finally a cowpath that led to a fence
>>> with a hole cut in it. I was on a dual-sport, I could have gone
>>> through the fence, but the bull in the pasture and the rather glum
>>> looking farmer with a shotgun were significant deterrents.
>>
>> I had a similar experience.
>> This time I was exploring Vermont.
>>
>> I was using the GPS to get me to the next town.
>> The GPS lead me though some rural roads and eventually up someones
>> driveway into the woods where the road stopped completely.
>>
>> So I tried to use the GPS to get back on a major road
>> where it lead me around in circles.
>>
>> Eventually I stopped and took a good look at the display.
>> Turned out the whole valley I was in had no signal.
>> Why it was leading me down roads I have no idea.
>>
>> It was sort of fun but I was low on gas.
>>
>> Vermont is a beautiful state.
>
> Sometimes GPS does amazing things. I asked it to take me to the
> nearest gas station in Quebec. So after driving endlessly, I see the
> gas station. Someone is refueling a Cessna.
>
> That same trip, when I was ready to go home I told it to take me home.
> Well, I'm sitting here in the rightmost lane of a 4 lane highway and
> it tells me to turn left. Turning left would have involved one lane
> of traffic the same direction I'm going, two lanes of oncoming
> traffic, two guardrails, and a chain-link fence. And after I got
> through that it would be up a steep embankment, another chain-link
> fence, and another guardrail before I got to anything resembling
> another road.
>
> Of course that was Garmin, not Google--I suspect that Google maps are
> much more current, although they seem to persistently refer to the
> capitol of Connecticut as "Hartford Court".
>

I tried to get my street name corrected a couple of years ago. They replied
that they’d “take care of it,” but it’s still wrong. I solved the problem
though - I moved.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403633 is a reply to message #403275] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
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Senior Member
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 20:25:45 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>
>> J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>
>>> Why would you do that? They've had drive-through windows since at
>>> least the late '60s.
>>
>> Why would you want to drive through a window?
>
> To sit inside the restaurant - in your car.

They did say “drive-thru service.”

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403634 is a reply to message #403603] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
>>> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>>>
>>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>>>> how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>>
>>> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
>>> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
>>> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
>>> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
>>> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
>>> suddenly getting good).
>>
>> That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
>> incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.
>
> Fiasco?
>
> For me those CFLs worked great. No check that, those CFLs are still
> working great. I used to replace the incandescents in my driveway
> lamp every year or 2. I'm going on 20 years now with those CFL bulbs
> in that lamp.
>
> I have a few others around the house. I haven't replaced any of them
> for at least 5-10 years.

I don’t think mine lasted as long as the incandescents they replaced, and
the color sucked.

>
> I wish all my fiascos were like this.
>



--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403635 is a reply to message #403604] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 18:16:46 -0500, J. Clarke
> <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 15:17:11 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 14:43:42 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> In article <rsqemu$1hs$1@dont-email.me> you write:
>>>> >>> On long drives it's not unusual for me to stop at a rest stop
>>>> >>> buy some apples and eat them while driving. I often loose a few pounds
>>>> >>> in the process.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hm. Sounds messy and potentially fairly unpleasant.
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, apples or bananas so I don't leave crumbs everywhere.
>>>> > Also plastic bag to hold the remains. So, not too messy.
>>>> >
>>>> > Not sure what's unpleasant about it.
>>>> > I don't really enjoy sitting in a fast food place.
>>>>
>>>> Why would you do that? They've had drive-through windows since at
>>>> least the late '60s.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I don't like drive through much either. I don't hear well,
>>> don't know the menu and I'm under pressure to order.
>>
>> There are three chains you are likely to deal with--McDonalds, Burger
>> King, and Wendys. There are other regional chains but in the US you
>> can pretty much count on those three. Taco Bell is also ubiquitous
>> but their food is not driving-friendly. Memorize an order for each
>> and you're set. "Quarter Pounder with Cheese, medium fries and large
>> coke", "Cheese Whopper no onion or pickle with mediumn fries and large
>> coke", and "Son of baconator with medium fries and large coke" should
>> cover you.
>>
>> And you basically have one bag, one cup, and whatever fries you drop
>> to clean up.
>
> [snip]
>
> Hmmm. Some burger places these days; put mustard, ketchup, and
> mayonaise on any burgers ordered unless they are told otherwise.
> Blech. I know Dairy Queen does. But the ones I grew up near, their
> shakes were good, avoid their food. Unless it was a Frito pie, and I
> don't think they sell those anymore.
>
>

Their chiliburgers were very good, but I don’t think they sell those any
more.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403636 is a reply to message #403609] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 08:07:36 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>>> aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
>>> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>>>
>>>> literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>>> needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>>>> how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>>
>>> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
>>> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
>>> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
>>> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
>>> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
>>> suddenly getting good).
>>>
>>
>> That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
>> incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.
>
> And that's the big problem with do-gooders nagging the government to
> "do something right now".
>
> Having played with Philips Hue a little bit, it is my intention to
> replace all my existing bulbs with Hue, which leave me the problem of
> disposing of the damned CFs, which in CT are "hazardous waste" that
> has to be disposed of on the four hours of the year in which the
> "hazardous waste" center is open.
>

Or double-bag them and stick them in the trash.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403637 is a reply to message #403617] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> COVID is a bonafied emergency. People are dying right now today.
>
> Do you actually have more than normal deaths in the US? In the flu
> season of 2018, we had 5000 extra deaths a week in Germany, that
> was _really_ bad. Compared to that, Covid-19's impact on deaths
> here has been small to statistically insignificant.
>

Between 315,000 and 430,000 excess deaths. I’m too lazy to compute that as
a percentage of the population. Flu is more seasonal, with deaths peaking
for a month or two and then declining. Covid is still going up, almost
asymtotically.

--
Pete
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403638 is a reply to message #403562] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
> In <20210102170828.11c34674a8b30f337fc5bb3a@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 16:29:54 +0000 (UTC)
>> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>> well, there's always the nuclear -> steam -> turbine deal,
>>>
>>> Just five years away!
>
>> Huh ? That's what nuclear power stations have always used -
>> sometimes with liquid sodium as a heat exchange between reactor and steam
>> which I always thought to be a hair raising concept.
>
> Wait, what? You mean something promised via press release
> back in the 1940's actually worked out?
>

I think Spain has a solar power station that uses concentrated sunlight to
heat liquid sodium.

--
Pete
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403639 is a reply to message #403563] Sun, 03 January 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>
>> In article <rsqemu$1hs$1@dont-email.me> you write:
>>> On long drives it's not unusual for me to stop at a rest stop
>>> buy some apples and eat them while driving. I often loose a few pounds
>>> in the process.
>>
>> Hm. Sounds messy and potentially fairly unpleasant.
>
> Well, apples or bananas so I don't leave crumbs everywhere.
> Also plastic bag to hold the remains. So, not too messy.
>
> Not sure what's unpleasant about it.
> I don't really enjoy sitting in a fast food place.
>

I hate sitting there, but I think that’s intentional. They want you in and
out quickly. Where I used to live a bunch of retirees would have breakfast
at McD’s and chat for a long time.

--
Pete
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403640 is a reply to message #403626] Sun, 03 January 2021 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 21:27:42 +0000, Vir Campestris
> <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 30/12/2020 19:19, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> There isn't any question that it can. Quite a lot of energy is
>>> transferred from the Sun to the Earth without a single wire in site.
>>
>> ITYF the efficiency is fairly low...
>
> Define "efficiency" in this context.
>
>> That doesn't matter for solar as
>> the energy is free and mostly wasted. It would matter for any other
>> energy source.
>
> With '80s technology 85% was demonstrated in one experiment using
> microwaves. Whether that will scale and whether it can be improved
> upon are open questions.

reductio ad absurdum:
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/

The alternatives:
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/02/the-alternative-energy-ma trix/

Where can we go from here:
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/09/discovering-limits-to-gro wth/
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403641 is a reply to message #403638] Sun, 03 January 2021 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1405
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
In article <1952100384.631420237.441467.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Wait, what? You mean something promised via press release
>> back in the 1940's actually worked out?
>
> I think Spain has a solar power station that uses concentrated sunlight to
> heat liquid sodium.

Dunno why they'd do that. Using it to boil water works fine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

I've seen it from the air; the top of the tower is amazingly bright.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403644 is a reply to message #403639] Sun, 03 January 2021 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:34:36 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>>
>>> In article <rsqemu$1hs$1@dont-email.me> you write:
>>>> On long drives it's not unusual for me to stop at a rest stop
>>>> buy some apples and eat them while driving. I often loose a few pounds
>>>> in the process.
>>>
>>> Hm. Sounds messy and potentially fairly unpleasant.
>>
>> Well, apples or bananas so I don't leave crumbs everywhere.
>> Also plastic bag to hold the remains. So, not too messy.
>>
>> Not sure what's unpleasant about it.
>> I don't really enjoy sitting in a fast food place.
>>
>
> I hate sitting there, but I think that’s intentional. They want you in and
> out quickly. Where I used to live a bunch of retirees would have breakfast
> at McD’s and chat for a long time.

Personally I like to hit the local McD for breakfast and then sit
there and read until I'm bored with the story or have to be somewhere.
Or hit Friendlys for lunch or dinner and do the same. I have no idea
why I prefer doing that to doing the same at home.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403645 is a reply to message #403636] Sun, 03 January 2021 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:34:32 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 08:07:36 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 06:02:37 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Government’s part should be to develop a plan that takes into account all
>>>> > aspects of a conversion to mostly EVs. Maybe I’m just not up on the
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps, but this is likely to be a lengthy process and technology
>>>> is not going to stand still in the meantime.
>>>>
>>>> > literature, but someone should figure out how many charging stations are
>>>> > needed, where they’re needed, and how they are going to be powered, and
>>>> > how they’re hoing to be indtalled and paid for.
>>>>
>>>> I think it more prudent to take an approach that takes into account
>>>> the limited availability of EVs and the rate of uptake (which will no
>>>> doubt be an accelerating one) and tries to stay just a little ahead of the
>>>> curve with infrastructure support so as not to be caught flat footed if
>>>> someone develops something unexpected (think CFL rollout punctuated by LEDs
>>>> suddenly getting good).
>>>>
>>>
>>> That’s why I said “have a plan.” The CFL fiasco was just basic
>>> incompetence, since everyone knew LEDs were coming.
>>
>> And that's the big problem with do-gooders nagging the government to
>> "do something right now".
>>
>> Having played with Philips Hue a little bit, it is my intention to
>> replace all my existing bulbs with Hue, which leave me the problem of
>> disposing of the damned CFs, which in CT are "hazardous waste" that
>> has to be disposed of on the four hours of the year in which the
>> "hazardous waste" center is open.
>>
>
> Or double-bag them and stick them in the trash.

My luck the commissar of garbage will be out that day. We have one of
those. Also a dandelion inspector. I have friends who grew up in the
Soviet Union. They agree that this is a level of inanity that the
Soviets at their worst never achieved.
Re: memories of Enigma and early computers [message #403650 is a reply to message #403624] Mon, 04 January 2021 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> schrieb:
> A few computers like the IBM 650 had very fast drum main memory
> (12500 RPM) which had the same delay problem, somewhat mitigated by
> optimizing assemblers that did most of the sprinkling for you.

And, of course, there were the LGP-30 and RPC-4000 by Royal
McBee, a computer line immortalized by the Story of Mel and by
the fact that an early indicationn chaotic behavior was first found
on an LGP-30.

As 99.9% of you probably know, Mel eschewed the use of optimizing
assemblers.
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403651 is a reply to message #403626] Mon, 04 January 2021 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 04/01/2021 00:57, J. Clarke wrote:
> With '80s technology 85% was demonstrated in one experiment using
> microwaves. Whether that will scale and whether it can be improved
> upon are open questions.

I'll admit surprise there. I don't suppose you have any good references?
I'd like a read.

Andy
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403655 is a reply to message #403651] Mon, 04 January 2021 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:44:12 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 04/01/2021 00:57, J. Clarke wrote:
>> With '80s technology 85% was demonstrated in one experiment using
>> microwaves. Whether that will scale and whether it can be improved
>> upon are open questions.
>
> I'll admit surprise there. I don't suppose you have any good references?
> I'd like a read.

Here's one link on it:
< https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-microwave-powered-he licopter-built-by-W-C-Brown-in-1964-From-Ref-5-17_fig6_23506 5150>
And another:
<http://mainland.cctt.org/istf2008/Brown.asp>

The paper can be found at:
<https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1147518> however it's paywalled.

And I was wrong about the timeline, it's '60s.

>
> Andy
Re: Grid capacity was: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403658 is a reply to message #403640] Mon, 04 January 2021 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elliott Roper is currently offline  Elliott Roper
Messages: 129
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 4 Jan 2021 at 03:00:20 GMT, "Scott Lurndal" <Scott Lurndal> wrote:

> reductio ad absurdum:
> https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/
>
> The alternatives:
> https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/02/the-alternative-energy-ma trix/
>
> Where can we go from here:
> https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/09/discovering-limits-to-gro wth/

Thanks for those links Scott. They briefly lift the standard of what must be
the most hopelessly ignorant and stupid thread in a.f.c's long history.
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403659 is a reply to message #403600] Mon, 04 January 2021 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
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Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> And infrastructure. Recent wildfires have shown that the grid is grossly
> undersized for peak loads, and the maintenance is terrible.

Actually, they've not shown that the "grid is grossly undersized for
peak loads". The PSPS (Public Safety Power Shutoffs) are not capacity
issues, but rather turning off power so that a falling branch during
a wind storm won't start a wildfire.

PG&E decided to return money to stockholders rather than invest in
maintenance of the infrastructure (i.e. tree trimming and replacing
insulators, old poles, etc).

The last power shortage in california that resulted in an outage
was due to generation companies playing the market back in 2002.
Re: car charging, was: Adobe oddity? [message #403663 is a reply to message #403644] Mon, 04 January 2021 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2021-01-04, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:34:36 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <rsqemu$1hs$1@dont-email.me> you write:
>>>>
>>>> > On long drives it's not unusual for me to stop at a rest stop
>>>> > buy some apples and eat them while driving. I often loose a few pounds
>>>> > in the process.
>>>>
>>>> Hm. Sounds messy and potentially fairly unpleasant.
>>>
>>> Well, apples or bananas so I don't leave crumbs everywhere.
>>> Also plastic bag to hold the remains. So, not too messy.
>>>
>>> Not sure what's unpleasant about it.
>>> I don't really enjoy sitting in a fast food place.
>>
>> I hate sitting there, but I think that’s intentional. They want you in and
>> out quickly. Where I used to live a bunch of retirees would have breakfast
>> at McD’s and chat for a long time.
>
> Personally I like to hit the local McD for breakfast and then sit
> there and read until I'm bored with the story or have to be somewhere.
> Or hit Friendlys for lunch or dinner and do the same. I have no idea
> why I prefer doing that to doing the same at home.

A local McD's had an overflow room. They only wanted it used when
needed, so the walls were painted bright colours which looked quite
cheerful, but which would drive you out screaming if you stayed any
longer than necessary.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
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