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Old days [message #400429] Wed, 23 September 2020 06:58 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
remotely. Fun.

Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
allow that as well.
Re: Old days [message #400433 is a reply to message #400429] Wed, 23 September 2020 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
> remotely. Fun.
>
> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
> allow that as well.

iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.

Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.

--
Jim
Re: Old days [message #400434 is a reply to message #400433] Wed, 23 September 2020 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Chris

On 09/23/20 17:31, JimP wrote:
> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus<maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>> remotely. Fun.
>>
>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>> allow that as well.
>
> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>
> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>

Dunno, but you could just turn it off and put it in a metal box if
it bothers. Don't use mobile a lot here and often forget to take it
out with me, but bought a Blackberry Z10 on Ebay for less than $20.
Well obsolete model, but is G4 capable and works fine. Good phone,
maps/gps, 8m pixel camera, surprisingly good and does everything I
need from a phone. Everything else still done on a desktop or
laptop here.

Doesn't need to be too complicated...

Chris
Re: Old days [message #400437 is a reply to message #400434] Wed, 23 September 2020 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 17:46:26 +0100, Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 09/23/20 17:31, JimP wrote:
>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus<maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>> remotely. Fun.
>>>
>>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>> allow that as well.
>>
>> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>
>> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>>
>
> Dunno, but you could just turn it off and put it in a metal box if
> it bothers. Don't use mobile a lot here and often forget to take it
> out with me, but bought a Blackberry Z10 on Ebay for less than $20.
> Well obsolete model, but is G4 capable and works fine. Good phone,
> maps/gps, 8m pixel camera, surprisingly good and does everything I
> need from a phone. Everything else still done on a desktop or
> laptop here.
>
> Doesn't need to be too complicated...

Just wrap it in foil.

However the notion that phone that is off can be turned on remotely is
a half-truth and mostly FUD. It according to everything that I have
been able to find requires that someone with the phone physically in
their possession apply a hack to it first to enable the process, and
even then it only works by preventing the phone from powering down in
the first place.
Re: Old days [message #400438 is a reply to message #400433] Wed, 23 September 2020 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-09-23, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.

That was the one computer I really got excited about.
Too bad Commode-Door management worked so hard to run it into the ground.

"If Commodore sold sushi, they would market it as 'cold dead fish'."

>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>> remotely. Fun.
>>
>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>> allow that as well.
>
> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>
> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.

Like my LG A-341 flip phone, for instance... :-)

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Old days [message #400439 is a reply to message #400433] Wed, 23 September 2020 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>> remotely. Fun.
>>
>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>> allow that as well.
>
> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>
> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.

I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Old days [message #400440 is a reply to message #400439] Wed, 23 September 2020 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>> remotely. Fun.
>>>
>>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>> allow that as well.
>>
>> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>
>> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>
> I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
> receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
> uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
> listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.
>

I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.

--
Pete
Re: Old days [message #400441 is a reply to message #400440] Wed, 23 September 2020 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Grant Taylor

On 9/23/20 12:36 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.

ATX PCs never actually turn off. There is always some power draw and a
very low level thing runs, including the ability to auto-power the
machine on based on a timer / alarm clock (built into many systems).

NICs that supported WoL were either had an add-on cable to connect the
card to a WoL connector or had traces for WoL for onboard chipsets.

The NICs watched for a very specific Ethernet frame addressed to their
MAC address. When that very specific Ethernet frame was seen, they
would tell the PC to power on, much like as if the power button had been
pressed and released.

Wake on LAN is a very specific technology and there is no subterfuge
with it. It is fairly well documented. Further, as I understand it, it
only worked on the local LAN (no pun intended) and did not work across a
router.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Re: Old days [message #400444 is a reply to message #400440] Wed, 23 September 2020 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>>> remotely. Fun.
>>>>
>>>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>>> allow that as well.
>>>
>>> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>>> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>>
>>> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>>
>> I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
>> receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
>> uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
>> listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.
>>
>
> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.

Which mean that part of the chip (Ethernet controller) needs to be on
an always-on power domain and also it needed to power on the MAC and PHY so
it could monitor packets.

Works fine when you're plugged into the wall. Uses battery otherwise.
Re: Old days [message #400445 is a reply to message #400438] Wed, 23 September 2020 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorgen Grahn is currently offline  Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 2020-09-23, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2020-09-23, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>
> That was the one computer I really got excited about.
> Too bad Commode-Door management worked so hard to run it into the ground.

I was, and am, more bitter about how the media and the mainstream
pretended the Amiga didn't exist. All kids with a computer interest
(in .se and probably Europe in general) had or wanted an Amiga, but
you never, ever read about it in the papers.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Re: Old days [message #400448 is a reply to message #400440] Wed, 23 September 2020 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 23/09/2020 20.36, Peter Flass wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>>> remotely. Fun.
>>>>
>>>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>>> allow that as well.
>>>
>>> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>>> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>>
>>> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>>
>> I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
>> receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
>> uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
>> listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.
>>
>
> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.

For this to work the network card remains powered and listening to the
right packet on the cable. And then it needs a line to the power supply
to bring it up.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Old days [message #400449 is a reply to message #400445] Wed, 23 September 2020 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 23 Sep 2020 20:08:08 GMT, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
wrote:
> On Wed, 2020-09-23, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2020-09-23, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>
>> That was the one computer I really got excited about.
>> Too bad Commode-Door management worked so hard to run it into the ground.
>
> I was, and am, more bitter about how the media and the mainstream
> pretended the Amiga didn't exist. All kids with a computer interest
> (in .se and probably Europe in general) had or wanted an Amiga, but
> you never, ever read about it in the papers.

I don't think CBM advertised very much. And when they did one bowl
game, I feel it was a waste of money.

--
Jim
Re: Old days [message #400450 is a reply to message #400429] Wed, 23 September 2020 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Dallas

On 9/23/2020 5:58 AM, maus wrote:
> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
> remotely. Fun.
>
> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
> allow that as well.
>

Good old days for me was when I could program straight to the "metal".

MS-DOS days. When we needed an OS back then, we wrote one ourselves. Seriously!
Re: Old days [message #400452 is a reply to message #400445] Wed, 23 September 2020 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 2:08:10 PM UTC-6, Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> I was, and am, more bitter about how the media and the mainstream
> pretended the Amiga didn't exist. All kids with a computer interest
> (in .se and probably Europe in general) had or wanted an Amiga, but
> you never, ever read about it in the papers.

Interesting. I know that the computer-related media paid a lot of attention
to the Amiga, particularly when the Amiga 1000 originally came out.

However, by the time of the Amiga 500... it was 1987. The Amiga - and the
Atari ST - were cheap plastic home computers for people who couldn't afford
a 'real' computer: a PC compatible or a Macintosh.

The Macintosh, and the IBM PC AT (the 80286 one) date from 1984.

The Sanyo MBC-555 dates from 1982; it was an affordable not-quite-compatible
that only briefly preceded the arrival of inexpensive PC clones.

So, while one would have expected even the mainstream media to have taken notice
of the groundbreaking Amiga 1000 when it came out, despite the fact that even by 1987
the PC and Mac hadn't caught up with its graphics and sound capabilities, the "mainstream
media" was quite correctly paying attention to the things that were important - the computers
that you could get software for, the computers that were being used in offices and small
businesses everywhere.

John Savard
Re: Old days [message #400460 is a reply to message #400440] Wed, 23 September 2020 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:36:59 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>>> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>>> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>>> remotely. Fun.
>>>>
>>>> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>>> allow that as well.
>>>
>>> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>>> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>>
>>> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>>
>> I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
>> receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
>> uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
>> listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.
>>
>
> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.

It still is if the functionality is turned on on the PC. Any modern
PC goes into a soft-off state where the power button on the front
panel instead of physically switching the mains or battery power
instead triggers a watchdog circuit that starts the power-up process.

The wake-on-lan functionality is generally switchable by a BIOS
setting or a jumper depending on the particular system.

It's actually useful in a corporate environment where somebody can
switch a machine on at 2AM to install updates or whatever. I can say
with some confidence however that my employer keeps it turned off and
may have the routers set to block the "magic packet" as well. I say
this because if somebody inadvertently shuts off a machine in the
office while working remotely, somebody has to physically go press the
power button to get it back up.

This does _not_ work however if the power is physically interrupted
(any machine that I build has a power switch on the power supply that
interrupts the mains power in addition to the soft-power button on the
front).
Re: Old days [message #400461 is a reply to message #400441] Wed, 23 September 2020 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 12:46:31 -0600, Grant Taylor
<gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

> On 9/23/20 12:36 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.
>
> ATX PCs never actually turn off. There is always some power draw and a
> very low level thing runs, including the ability to auto-power the
> machine on based on a timer / alarm clock (built into many systems).
>
> NICs that supported WoL were either had an add-on cable to connect the
> card to a WoL connector or had traces for WoL for onboard chipsets.
>
> The NICs watched for a very specific Ethernet frame addressed to their
> MAC address. When that very specific Ethernet frame was seen, they
> would tell the PC to power on, much like as if the power button had been
> pressed and released.
>
> Wake on LAN is a very specific technology and there is no subterfuge
> with it. It is fairly well documented. Further, as I understand it, it
> only worked on the local LAN (no pun intended) and did not work across a
> router.

And not always even then. I've played with it on my own networks and
found it to be frustratingly chancy.
Re: Old days [message #400462 is a reply to message #400452] Wed, 23 September 2020 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 15:34:01 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 2:08:10 PM UTC-6, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>
>> I was, and am, more bitter about how the media and the mainstream
>> pretended the Amiga didn't exist. All kids with a computer interest
>> (in .se and probably Europe in general) had or wanted an Amiga, but
>> you never, ever read about it in the papers.
>
> Interesting. I know that the computer-related media paid a lot of attention
> to the Amiga, particularly when the Amiga 1000 originally came out.
>
> However, by the time of the Amiga 500... it was 1987. The Amiga - and the
> Atari ST - were cheap plastic home computers for people who couldn't afford
> a 'real' computer: a PC compatible or a Macintosh.
>
> The Macintosh, and the IBM PC AT (the 80286 one) date from 1984.
>
> The Sanyo MBC-555 dates from 1982; it was an affordable not-quite-compatible
> that only briefly preceded the arrival of inexpensive PC clones.
>
> So, while one would have expected even the mainstream media to have taken notice
> of the groundbreaking Amiga 1000 when it came out, despite the fact that even by 1987
> the PC and Mac hadn't caught up with its graphics and sound capabilities, the "mainstream
> media" was quite correctly paying attention to the things that were important - the computers
> that you could get software for, the computers that were being used in offices and small
> businesses everywhere.

Fortunately for a lot of us Joe Straczynski didn't get the memo. And
thus we have Babylon 5.
Re: Old days [message #400472 is a reply to message #400441] Thu, 24 September 2020 03:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Grant Taylor wrote:

> Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.
>
> as I understand it, it only worked on the local LAN (no pun intended)
> and did not work across a router.

It can work through routers, if you enable subnet directed broadcasts
and send the magic packet to the remote subnet's broadcast address
rather than the PC's IP address.

That lets you wake up a whole fleet of machines at different sites to
patch them overnight ...
Re: Old days [message #400473 is a reply to message #400460] Thu, 24 September 2020 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2020-09-23, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:36:59 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >
> It still is if the functionality is turned on on the PC. Any modern
> PC goes into a soft-off state where the power button on the front
> panel instead of physically switching the mains or battery power
> instead triggers a watchdog circuit that starts the power-up process.
>
> The wake-on-lan functionality is generally switchable by a BIOS
> setting or a jumper depending on the particular system.
>
> It's actually useful in a corporate environment where somebody can
> switch a machine on at 2AM to install updates or whatever. I can say
> with some confidence however that my employer keeps it turned off and
> may have the routers set to block the "magic packet" as well. I say
> this because if somebody inadvertently shuts off a machine in the
> office while working remotely, somebody has to physically go press the
> power button to get it back up.
>
> This does _not_ work however if the power is physically interrupted
> (any machine that I build has a power switch on the power supply that
> interrupts the mains power in addition to the soft-power button on the
> front).
>
To be safe, one should unplug the computer.

I used assemble my computers, (bought a Lenovo last time) and one way
of checking the power supply was to see if the Ethernet light was on or
off, EVEN before it was switched on (fan working)

My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer
relevent. I remember setting up the amiga in a friends house, going to
park in front of an office, and watching the activity when the Amiga
rang the individual phones in the office, and security people there
tried to find out what was happening. Daft, of course.

there was a local BBS, based on an amiga, which was very popular, until
the owner bought a PC, and the listings changed from freeware to
shareware. Did anyone ever use a PC for fun?
Re: Old days [message #400481 is a reply to message #400460] Thu, 24 September 2020 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:36:59 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>>> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>>> > I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>>> > the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>>> > remotely. Fun.
>>>> >
>>>> > Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>>> > allow that as well.
>>>>
>>>> iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>>>> notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>>>
>>> I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
>>> receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
>>> uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
>>> listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.
>>>
>>
>> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.
>
> It still is if the functionality is turned on on the PC. Any modern
> PC goes into a soft-off state where the power button on the front
> panel instead of physically switching the mains or battery power
> instead triggers a watchdog circuit that starts the power-up process.
>
> The wake-on-lan functionality is generally switchable by a BIOS
> setting or a jumper depending on the particular system.
>
> It's actually useful in a corporate environment where somebody can
> switch a machine on at 2AM to install updates or whatever.


Most corporate servers have a BMC that's always on to handle
those sorts of tasks; I haven't seen Wake-on-Lan used in a corporate
environment for a decade or more.
Re: Old days [message #400482 is a reply to message #400481] Thu, 24 September 2020 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 13:39:00 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> Most corporate servers have a BMC that's always on to handle those sorts
> of tasks; I haven't seen Wake-on-Lan used in a corporate environment
> for a decade or more.

I just use iLO here.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: Old days [message #400485 is a reply to message #400472] Thu, 24 September 2020 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Grant Taylor

On 9/24/20 1:39 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> It can work through routers, if you enable subnet directed broadcasts
> and send the magic packet to the remote subnet's broadcast address
> rather than the PC's IP address.
>
> That lets you wake up a whole fleet of machines at different sites to
> patch them overnight ...

Hum.

That's contrary to my understanding. I'll have to check that out.

Thank you for the correction Andy.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Re: Old days [message #400486 is a reply to message #400473] Thu, 24 September 2020 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Grant Taylor

On 9/24/20 2:10 AM, maus wrote:
> My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer
> relevent.

Hayes commands are still used every day. They've even been extended to
do more and control more. They are just hidden away and virtually never
used directly by humans any more. Many control codes for cell phones
(as modems) now use ~> abuse the idea started by Hayes commands.

A few (< 5) years ago I helped some co-workers use Hayes commands to add
""phone numbers to their cell phone address book to make dialing into
company conference bridges easier. Good old tel:<number>,<option>,<pass
code>...



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Re: Old days [message #400487 is a reply to message #400482] Thu, 24 September 2020 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
> On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 13:39:00 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> Most corporate servers have a BMC that's always on to handle those sorts
>> of tasks; I haven't seen Wake-on-Lan used in a corporate environment
>> for a decade or more.
>
> I just use iLO here.

Which is basically a BMC by another name :-)

>
Re: Old days [message #400488 is a reply to message #400486] Thu, 24 September 2020 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Grant Taylor wrote:

> maus wrote:
>
>> My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer
>> relevent.
>
> Hayes commands are still used every day.

4G USB dongles often use ATD*99***1# to "dial" a data connection
Re: Old days [message #400489 is a reply to message #400473] Thu, 24 September 2020 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 24 Sep 2020 08:10:06 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2020-09-23, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:36:59 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>>> > On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>> It still is if the functionality is turned on on the PC. Any modern
>> PC goes into a soft-off state where the power button on the front
>> panel instead of physically switching the mains or battery power
>> instead triggers a watchdog circuit that starts the power-up process.
>>
>> The wake-on-lan functionality is generally switchable by a BIOS
>> setting or a jumper depending on the particular system.
>>
>> It's actually useful in a corporate environment where somebody can
>> switch a machine on at 2AM to install updates or whatever. I can say
>> with some confidence however that my employer keeps it turned off and
>> may have the routers set to block the "magic packet" as well. I say
>> this because if somebody inadvertently shuts off a machine in the
>> office while working remotely, somebody has to physically go press the
>> power button to get it back up.
>>
>> This does _not_ work however if the power is physically interrupted
>> (any machine that I build has a power switch on the power supply that
>> interrupts the mains power in addition to the soft-power button on the
>> front).
>>
> To be safe, one should unplug the computer.
>
> I used assemble my computers, (bought a Lenovo last time) and one way
> of checking the power supply was to see if the Ethernet light was on or
> off, EVEN before it was switched on (fan working)
>
> My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer
> relevent. I remember setting up the amiga in a friends house, going to
> park in front of an office, and watching the activity when the Amiga
> rang the individual phones in the office, and security people there
> tried to find out what was happening. Daft, of course.
>
> there was a local BBS, based on an amiga, which was very popular, until
> the owner bought a PC, and the listings changed from freeware to
> shareware. Did anyone ever use a PC for fun?

I used one, and still do, for fun. I make maps using Campaign
Cartographer, 2 then 3, and now 3 Plus. I also play Everquest MMO by
Daybreak Games.

--
Jim
Re: Old days [message #400492 is a reply to message #400487] Thu, 24 September 2020 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 15:30:01 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>> On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 13:39:00 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>> Most corporate servers have a BMC that's always on to handle those
>>> sorts of tasks; I haven't seen Wake-on-Lan used in a corporate
>>> environment for a decade or more.
>>
>> I just use iLO here.
>
> Which is basically a BMC by another name :-)
>
>

My point was more about the fact that I use it at home, but yes.



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: Old days [message #400494 is a reply to message #400486] Thu, 24 September 2020 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2020-09-24, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
> On 9/24/20 2:10 AM, maus wrote:
>> My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer
>> relevent.
>
> Hayes commands are still used every day. They've even been extended to
> do more and control more. They are just hidden away and virtually never
> used directly by humans any more. Many control codes for cell phones
> (as modems) now use ~> abuse the idea started by Hayes commands.
>
> A few (< 5) years ago I helped some co-workers use Hayes commands to add
> ""phone numbers to their cell phone address book to make dialing into
> company conference bridges easier. Good old tel:<number>,<option>,<pass
> code>...
>
>
>
>
Tell us more, I thought that hayes commands were for modems, rather
than routers, but I suppose that the line of descent would involved some
obscure areas, like the now unused subway systems in many cities.
Re: Old days [message #400495 is a reply to message #400489] Thu, 24 September 2020 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2020-09-24, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24 Sep 2020 08:10:06 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>> On 2020-09-23, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:36:59 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> > On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>>> >> On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>
>> My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer
>> relevent. I remember setting up the amiga in a friends house, going to
>> park in front of an office, and watching the activity when the Amiga
>> rang the individual phones in the office, and security people there
>> tried to find out what was happening. Daft, of course.
>>
>> there was a local BBS, based on an amiga, which was very popular, until
>> the owner bought a PC, and the listings changed from freeware to
>> shareware. Did anyone ever use a PC for fun?
>>

I should have excepted genuine games.

>
> I used one, and still do, for fun. I make maps using Campaign
> Cartographer, 2 then 3, and now 3 Plus. I also play Everquest MMO by
> Daybreak Games.
>
Re: Old days [message #400496 is a reply to message #400481] Thu, 24 September 2020 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 11:36:59 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 23/09/2020 18.31, JimP wrote:
>>>> > On 23 Sep 2020 10:58:15 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Good old days. I think that the best time was the arrival of the Amiga.
>>>> >> I remember buying a modem, a USRobotics one, with a large manual about
>>>> >> the Hayes command set, including how to turn on a handset phone
>>>> >> remotely. Fun.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Recently, I read that there is a suspicion that some tracing apps will
>>>> >> allow that as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > iPhone can be turned on by Apple and the US government. The user wont
>>>> > notice. That is from several IT documents I read years ago.
>>>> >
>>>> > Supposedly other cell phones aren't that vulnerable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how a phone may be turned on remotely unless it leaves a
>>>> receiver on with some logic support to detect the right signal. And that
>>>> uses battery, of course. Maybe if the radio turns on intermittently to
>>>> listen for a few seconds and then goes to sleep for some minutes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I remember when “wake on LAN” was a thing for PCs that did this.
>>
>> It still is if the functionality is turned on on the PC. Any modern
>> PC goes into a soft-off state where the power button on the front
>> panel instead of physically switching the mains or battery power
>> instead triggers a watchdog circuit that starts the power-up process.
>>
>> The wake-on-lan functionality is generally switchable by a BIOS
>> setting or a jumper depending on the particular system.
>>
>> It's actually useful in a corporate environment where somebody can
>> switch a machine on at 2AM to install updates or whatever.
>
>
> Most corporate servers have a BMC that's always on to handle
> those sorts of tasks; I haven't seen Wake-on-Lan used in a corporate
> environment for a decade or more.
>
>

Bordel Militaire de Campagne?

--
Pete
Re: Old days [message #400501 is a reply to message #400452] Thu, 24 September 2020 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-09-23, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> So, while one would have expected even the mainstream media to have
> taken notice of the groundbreaking Amiga 1000 when it came out,
> despite the fact that even by 1987 the PC and Mac hadn't caught up
> with its graphics and sound capabilities, the "mainstream media" was
> quite correctly paying attention to the things that were important -
> the computers that you could get software for, the computers that
> were being used in offices and small businesses everywhere.

There was plenty of software available for the Amiga - I ran
WordPerfect on mine.

The most important thing that the Amiga was missing was the
magic three letters in its name.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Old days [message #400502 is a reply to message #400496] Thu, 24 September 2020 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

>> Most corporate servers have a BMC that's always on to handle
>> those sorts of tasks; I haven't seen Wake-on-Lan used in a corporate
>> environment for a decade or more.
>>
>>
>
> Bordel Militaire de Campagne?

Baseboard Management Controller. A chip with a small
low-power core (like an ARM M series core) and either
a built-in NIC, or access via NC-SI to the NIC in the
southbridge on the baseboard. It's responsible for
power management and out-of-band management (e.g. updating
firmware such as UEFI or BIOS, monitoring temperatures and
other health metrics, resetting the processors, etc).
Re: Old days [message #400503 is a reply to message #400501] Thu, 24 September 2020 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-09-24, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> The most important thing that the Amiga was missing was the
> magic three letters in its name.

Yes, the C was sadly not deemed an appropriate substitute.

Niklas
--
It's possible to make Windows secure, in much the same way as it's
possible to make a bullet-proof vest out of cheese - you just need
an awful lot of cheese and the end result doesn't smell good.
-- Jim in asr
Re: Old days [message #400508 is a reply to message #400501] Thu, 24 September 2020 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: JimP

On 24 Sep 2020 18:40:18 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2020-09-23, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> So, while one would have expected even the mainstream media to have
>> taken notice of the groundbreaking Amiga 1000 when it came out,
>> despite the fact that even by 1987 the PC and Mac hadn't caught up
>> with its graphics and sound capabilities, the "mainstream media" was
>> quite correctly paying attention to the things that were important -
>> the computers that you could get software for, the computers that
>> were being used in offices and small businesses everywhere.
>
> There was plenty of software available for the Amiga - I ran
> WordPerfect on mine.
>
> The most important thing that the Amiga was missing was the
> magic three letters in its name.

I bought Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 for mine. Warning came with
Lotus, don't use more than a certain number of rows, as beyond that
would be too many and the ms-dos version couldn't import the file.

--
Jim
Re: Old days [message #400509 is a reply to message #400486] Thu, 24 September 2020 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Dallas

On 9/24/2020 10:02 AM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 9/24/20 2:10 AM, maus wrote:
>> My original message was about the hayes commands, which are no longer relevent.
>
> Hayes commands are still used every day.  They've even been extended to do more and control more.
> They are just hidden away and virtually never used directly by humans any more.  Many control codes
> for cell phones (as modems) now use ~> abuse the idea started by Hayes commands.
>
> A few (< 5) years ago I helped some co-workers use Hayes commands to add ""phone numbers to their
> cell phone address book to make dialing into company conference bridges easier.  Good old
> tel:<number>,<option>,<pass code>...
>
>
>

I definitely remember typing +++ to make the modem pay attention to my commands.
Re: Old days [message #400510 is a reply to message #400503] Thu, 24 September 2020 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Dallas

On 9/24/2020 2:42 PM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2020-09-24, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> The most important thing that the Amiga was missing was the
>> magic three letters in its name.
>
> Yes, the C was sadly not deemed an appropriate substitute.
> Niklas
>

Perhaps Jack should have considered just inserting the C to get the eye-catching ICBM
Re: Old days [message #400511 is a reply to message #400494] Thu, 24 September 2020 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Grant Taylor

On 9/24/20 11:06 AM, maus wrote:
> Tell us more, I thought that hayes commands were for modems, rather
> than routers, but I suppose that the line of descent would involved
> some obscure areas, like the now unused subway systems in many cities.

They are for modems.

But routers can and do use them to manage USB / cell modems connected to
the router.

I'm guessing that the biggest use for them today is directly related to
cell phones (read: fancy modems).



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Re: Old days [message #400515 is a reply to message #400501] Thu, 24 September 2020 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 12:41:15 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> There was plenty of software available for the Amiga - I ran
> WordPerfect on mine.

And today there is "plenty" of software available for the Macintosh. But some
people are just picky.

John Savard
Re: Old days [message #400516 is a reply to message #400515] Thu, 24 September 2020 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-09-24, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 12:41:15 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> There was plenty of software available for the Amiga - I ran
>> WordPerfect on mine.
>
> And today there is "plenty" of software available for the Macintosh.
> But some people are just picky.

Often in the same sense as citizens in the former Soviet Union.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Old days [message #400517 is a reply to message #400501] Thu, 24 September 2020 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 24 Sep 2020 18:40:18 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2020-09-23, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> So, while one would have expected even the mainstream media to have
>> taken notice of the groundbreaking Amiga 1000 when it came out,
>> despite the fact that even by 1987 the PC and Mac hadn't caught up
>> with its graphics and sound capabilities, the "mainstream media" was
>> quite correctly paying attention to the things that were important -
>> the computers that you could get software for, the computers that
>> were being used in offices and small businesses everywhere.
>
> There was plenty of software available for the Amiga - I ran
> WordPerfect on mine.

In 1995 I organised a trade show stand for the ISP I was running,
we had a dial up connection to the site, a BSD box running as a local
router and a Windows PC, a Mac and an Amiga (belonging to customers
helping out) connected up. But that wasn't enough for the guy who brought
the Amiga along he had to fire up a PC emulator and run Windows on it and a
Mac emulator.

One thing that was amusing was discovering another stand where
they were making a big deal out of being able to connect a unix box to PCs
and Macs.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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