| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400059 is a reply to message #400023] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 16:32   |
usenet
Messages: 556
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:29:24 -0400, J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
Heh. I got this image of a raised-floor, air-conditioned computer room, filled
with spinning disk and tape drives, chattering line printers, and the like.
Operators coming and going, mounting tapes, bursting listings, etc. In the
center of all this frenzied activity on a long table, running the whole show, is
a smart phone with a single USB cable snaking from it.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400061 is a reply to message #400032] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 17:16 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:46:57 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:15:03 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
>>>
>>>> What's wrong with all those background processes? Gotta keep all
>>>> those cores doing sumthin'.
>>>
>>> I was waiting for this thread to turn sensible.
>>>
>>> All this bull about "bloat" was getting boring.
>>>
>>> I'm running with 2GB Ram and barely put it all to use. Just looked, if
>>> I wanted to add 4 GB that would be $18.99 US.
>>>
>>> Last time I looked at services running I didn't need, I quickly found I
>>> was wasting my time. Most of them were barely using CPU or memory and
>>> they were performing useful functions.
>>>
>>> So, with my new RGB keyboard I started with a command line utility but
>>> started to find the command syntax challenging. The same package
>>> (libratbag) comes with a GUI (piper). Saved me a lot of time.
>>>
>>> I used to unload photos from my devices using my own command line tools.
>>> I got tired of typing long commands and folder names and wrote my own
>>> GUIto drive the process. Now I'm down to the bare minimum of
>>> keystrokes for the process.
>>
>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>
> What did you order? My S5 is overdue for a replacement.
> I mainly use it for driving and photos/movies.
Galaxy Note S20 Ultra with half a terabyte. I like being able to
scribble.
I'm hoping that it will actually give me reliable reception, which my
5 year old cheap ZTE doesn't. That's becoming an issue because work
wants to authenticate to a phone instead of using a token going
forward. Everything I'm reading says that the Galaxy Notes are
particularly good in that regard and if I'm spending that much anyway
I may as well get all the bells and whistles.
It's gross overkill for my needs, but . . .
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400064 is a reply to message #400058] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 17:13 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:31:50 GMT
usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:28:15 +0100, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> A non-technical red-necked consumer from hoi polloi, perhaps?
>
> You mention your early PDP-11 experience in practically every second
> post. At this point it's just bragging.
Some good war stories from it would go down well though.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400065 is a reply to message #400061] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 18:02 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:46:57 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:15:03 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
>>>>
>>>> > What's wrong with all those background processes? Gotta keep all
>>>> > those cores doing sumthin'.
>>>>
>>>> I was waiting for this thread to turn sensible.
>>>>
>>>> All this bull about "bloat" was getting boring.
>>>>
>>>> I'm running with 2GB Ram and barely put it all to use. Just looked, if
>>>> I wanted to add 4 GB that would be $18.99 US.
>>>>
>>>> Last time I looked at services running I didn't need, I quickly found I
>>>> was wasting my time. Most of them were barely using CPU or memory and
>>>> they were performing useful functions.
>>>>
>>>> So, with my new RGB keyboard I started with a command line utility but
>>>> started to find the command syntax challenging. The same package
>>>> (libratbag) comes with a GUI (piper). Saved me a lot of time.
>>>>
>>>> I used to unload photos from my devices using my own command line tools.
>>>> I got tired of typing long commands and folder names and wrote my own
>>>> GUIto drive the process. Now I'm down to the bare minimum of
>>>> keystrokes for the process.
>>>
>>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>>
>> What did you order? My S5 is overdue for a replacement.
>> I mainly use it for driving and photos/movies.
>
> Galaxy Note S20 Ultra with half a terabyte. I like being able to
> scribble.
>
> I'm hoping that it will actually give me reliable reception, which my
> 5 year old cheap ZTE doesn't. That's becoming an issue because work
> wants to authenticate to a phone instead of using a token going
> forward. Everything I'm reading says that the Galaxy Notes are
> particularly good in that regard and if I'm spending that much anyway
> I may as well get all the bells and whistles.
>
> It's gross overkill for my needs, but . . .
Thanks.
Not sure I want something that large.
My current phone is 5.5 x 2.3.
That thing is 6.48 x 3.04.
Just looked around, the S10e is supposed to be their small phone,
5.9 x 2.75.
Not impressed.
I might be changing brands.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400066 is a reply to message #400065] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 18:47 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 18:02:42 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:46:57 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:15:03 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> What's wrong with all those background processes? Gotta keep all
>>>> >> those cores doing sumthin'.
>>>> >
>>>> >I was waiting for this thread to turn sensible.
>>>> >
>>>> >All this bull about "bloat" was getting boring.
>>>> >
>>>> >I'm running with 2GB Ram and barely put it all to use. Just looked, if
>>>> >I wanted to add 4 GB that would be $18.99 US.
>>>> >
>>>> >Last time I looked at services running I didn't need, I quickly found I
>>>> >was wasting my time. Most of them were barely using CPU or memory and
>>>> >they were performing useful functions.
>>>> >
>>>> >So, with my new RGB keyboard I started with a command line utility but
>>>> >started to find the command syntax challenging. The same package
>>>> >(libratbag) comes with a GUI (piper). Saved me a lot of time.
>>>> >
>>>> >I used to unload photos from my devices using my own command line tools.
>>>> >I got tired of typing long commands and folder names and wrote my own
>>>> >GUIto drive the process. Now I'm down to the bare minimum of
>>>> >keystrokes for the process.
>>>>
>>>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>>>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>>>
>>> What did you order? My S5 is overdue for a replacement.
>>> I mainly use it for driving and photos/movies.
>>
>> Galaxy Note S20 Ultra with half a terabyte. I like being able to
>> scribble.
>>
>> I'm hoping that it will actually give me reliable reception, which my
>> 5 year old cheap ZTE doesn't. That's becoming an issue because work
>> wants to authenticate to a phone instead of using a token going
>> forward. Everything I'm reading says that the Galaxy Notes are
>> particularly good in that regard and if I'm spending that much anyway
>> I may as well get all the bells and whistles.
>>
>> It's gross overkill for my needs, but . . .
>
> Thanks.
>
> Not sure I want something that large.
> My current phone is 5.5 x 2.3.
> That thing is 6.48 x 3.04.
>
> Just looked around, the S10e is supposed to be their small phone,
> 5.9 x 2.75.
>
> Not impressed.
> I might be changing brands.
My current one is 5.8 x 2.8. The new one is taller but not that much
wider.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400069 is a reply to message #400059] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 19:22 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-09-15, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:29:24 -0400, J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>
> Heh. I got this image of a raised-floor, air-conditioned computer room,
> filled with spinning disk and tape drives, chattering line printers, and
> the like. Operators coming and going, mounting tapes, bursting listings,
> etc. In the center of all this frenzied activity on a long table, running
> the whole show, is a smart phone with a single USB cable snaking from it.
Nah, it'll use a wi-fi connection to a router hidden in one of the cabinets.
Everything will run just fine until the phone's battery dies...
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400072 is a reply to message #400069] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 21:14 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 15 Sep 2020 23:22:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2020-09-15, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:29:24 -0400, J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>>
>> Heh. I got this image of a raised-floor, air-conditioned computer room,
>> filled with spinning disk and tape drives, chattering line printers, and
>> the like. Operators coming and going, mounting tapes, bursting listings,
>> etc. In the center of all this frenzied activity on a long table, running
>> the whole show, is a smart phone with a single USB cable snaking from it.
>
> Nah, it'll use a wi-fi connection to a router hidden in one of the cabinets.
>
> Everything will run just fine until the phone's battery dies...
Just remember that that phone has the equivalent of 5,000 3330s in it,
so much of that storage would be redundant, unless perhaps you're
using it for backup.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400073 is a reply to message #400042] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 21:49 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> gareth evans wrote:
>> Having cut my teeth on a naked PDP11 with no OS, and thus
>> was in complete control of the machine, what I seek is an OS
>> that runs only the programs that I wish, and that does not
>> have shedloads of daemons and background processes that I did not
>> launch.
>>
>> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
>> and bugger-all else?
>
> i've been using debian for quite a long time and you can
> install that as a server and then add whatever window
> environment you want on top of it.
>
> my current system does use systemd, but i have a lot of
> stuff masked because i don't use it.
>
> there are ways of using debian and not having large parts
> of systemd, but i don't really care as long as it works and
> currently it does so i leave it alone.
>
> my desktop is MATE and that is pretty simple and does what
> i want it to do. lightdm is the desktop manager i like.
>
> there are plenty of other windowin environments out there
> though i just haven't really cared to get that much into
> looking for something else when what i have is working.
>
> years ago the Gnome desktop was what i liked and then it
> went crazy with things i didn't like so i switched to kde
> and then kde did the same thing so i ended up finding MATE
> and have stuck with that since then.
Me too. I hear Cinnamon is pretty good, too, but I have no reason to try to
find out.
>
> not sure this is the answer you were after, but that's
> what's up with me.
>
>
> songbird
>
--
Pete
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400075 is a reply to message #399971] |
Tue, 15 September 2020 21:49 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2020 22:28:23 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 14:04:07 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:57:12 +0100, gareth evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Having cut my teeth on a naked PDP11 with no OS, and thus was in
>>>> complete control of the machine, what I seek is an OS that runs only
>>>> the programs that I wish, and that does not have shedloads of daemons
>>>> and background processes that I did not launch.
>>>>
>>>> So, an OS with Internet and printer support, a graphics window package
>>>> and bugger-all else?
>>>
>>> My thought was CP/M. It has printer support and GEM as GUI is available.
>>> But the internet option might be a problem.
>>
>> Surely it's bloated if it has a GUI? I used UNIX for years before it had
>> a GUI.
>
> A GUI, however small in memory, might be too much for a PDP11 anyway. No
> matter what OS it's running.
The Alto had a minimum of 128K bytes (64K words, I think) and should have
been about the same class of machine as an -11.
--
Pete
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400082 is a reply to message #400072] |
Wed, 16 September 2020 03:04 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 21:14:06 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2020 23:22:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-09-15, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:29:24 -0400, J. Clarke <jclarke.
>>> 873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>>>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>>>
>>> Heh. I got this image of a raised-floor, air-conditioned computer
>>> room, filled with spinning disk and tape drives, chattering line
>>> printers, and the like. Operators coming and going, mounting tapes,
>>> bursting listings, etc. In the center of all this frenzied activity
>>> on a long table, running the whole show, is a smart phone with a
>>> single USB cable snaking from it.
>>
>> Nah, it'll use a wi-fi connection to a router hidden in one of the
>> cabinets.
>>
>> Everything will run just fine until the phone's battery dies...
>
> Just remember that that phone has the equivalent of 5,000 3330s in it,
> so much of that storage would be redundant, unless perhaps you're
> using it for backup.
Yeah no disk packs but if the phone is doing DP work then the tapes
might be the data feeds and reports to external systems. You'd need a lot of
tape drives going flat out to keep that phone busy, it could also drive a
ridiculous number of 1403s with suitable interfacing (channel boxes with
wifi dongles perhaps).
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400084 is a reply to message #400058] |
Wed, 16 September 2020 05:10 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 15/09/2020 21:31, Questor wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:28:15 +0100, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 15/09/2020 05:30, Questor wrote:
>>> I do not want to raise, slaughter, and butcher my own livestock, grow all my own
>>> vegetables and grain, or bake my own bread.
>>> I do not want to grow my own cotton, weave my own cloth, or sew my own clothes.
>>> I do not want to mine my own ore, smelt my own metal, fashion my own parts, or
>>> build my own car.
>>> I do not want to design my own hardware, write my own microcode, kernel, OS, or
>>> most applications.
>>
>> A non-technical red-necked consumer from hoi polloi, perhaps?
>
> I have no need to re-create the wheel.
>
> You've got a pretty thin skin to be hanging out in this newsgroup, Buck-o.
>
> You mention your early PDP-11 experience in practically every second post. At
> this point it's just bragging.
>
> Yeah, we get it. You're a dinosaur, just like the rest of us. Get on with it,
> or at least come up with a new, more interesting whine.
>
You seem to be spoiling for a fight, but I am not.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400087 is a reply to message #400073] |
Wed, 16 September 2020 06:00 |
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Originally posted by: songbird
Peter Flass wrote:
....
> Me too. I hear Cinnamon is pretty good, too, but I have no reason to try to
> find out.
i must admit i do pine for the good ol' days when i
was programming on the Univac and only had the few
devices to cope with. :) the assembler language
spoiled me for anything else.
eventually i later on became the system programmer
for that machine as they were trying to get rid of it
and eventually did replace it. i never knew or planned
to get that involved.
the conversion was fun, to a mini-computer, once that
was winding down was when i finally left after being
there for 15yrs.
so from my little corner project off to the side of
the larger programs i was able to observe the full life
cycle of my program going from inception to then
eventually being replaced.
i have no idea what hardware they're running on these
days. hard to believe i've almost been gone from there
for almost 25yrs. seems like just yesterday... :)
songbird
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400099 is a reply to message #400072] |
Wed, 16 September 2020 13:42 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-09-16, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2020 23:22:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-09-15, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:29:24 -0400, J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But still, the new phone I have on order would have been a large
>>>> supercomputer shop in the '70s.
>>>
>>> Heh. I got this image of a raised-floor, air-conditioned computer room,
>>> filled with spinning disk and tape drives, chattering line printers, and
>>> the like. Operators coming and going, mounting tapes, bursting listings,
>>> etc. In the center of all this frenzied activity on a long table, running
>>> the whole show, is a smart phone with a single USB cable snaking from it.
>>
>> Nah, it'll use a wi-fi connection to a router hidden in one of the cabinets.
>>
>> Everything will run just fine until the phone's battery dies...
>
> Just remember that that phone has the equivalent of 5,000 3330s in it,
> so much of that storage would be redundant, unless perhaps you're
> using it for backup.
That reminds me of the one I saw in rec.humor.funny years ago.
Someone mentioned an article about miniaturization which stated
that soon you'd have a 3090 in your wristwatch. "Great," our guy
observed, "you can boot MVS on it and the first thing it'll do is
ask you the time."
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400116 is a reply to message #400099] |
Wed, 16 September 2020 16:25 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:42:52 +0000, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> That reminds me of the one I saw in rec.humor.funny years ago. Someone
> mentioned an article about miniaturization which stated that soon you'd
> have a 3090 in your wristwatch. "Great," our guy observed, "you can
> boot MVS on it and the first thing it'll do is ask you the time."
I ran VAX/VMS on my phone, some years ago. Someone had ported SIMH, but
then it broke becuase it depended on some other broken app.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400125 is a reply to message #400116] |
Wed, 16 September 2020 18:28 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 16 Sep 2020 20:25:07 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:42:52 +0000, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> That reminds me of the one I saw in rec.humor.funny years ago. Someone
>> mentioned an article about miniaturization which stated that soon you'd
>> have a 3090 in your wristwatch. "Great," our guy observed, "you can
>> boot MVS on it and the first thing it'll do is ask you the time."
>
> I ran VAX/VMS on my phone, some years ago. Someone had ported SIMH, but
> then it broke becuase it depended on some other broken app.
I understand that it actually is possible to run Z/OS on an iPhone.
There hasn't been an Android port of Hercules though, at least none
that I can find.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400211 is a reply to message #400022] |
Fri, 18 September 2020 16:40 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 2020-09-15, Dan Espen wrote:
....
> I used to unload photos from my devices using my own command line tools.
> I got tired of typing long commands and folder names and wrote my own
> GUIto drive the process. Now I'm down to the bare minimum of
> keystrokes for the process.
Another option is to use a shell with searchable history (bash, tcsh,
zsh). My command line for doing that is
mount /camera && \
rsync -av /camera/dcim/1??_pana/ ~/photo/tmp/ && \
umount /camera
And I type ^Rrsync<RET> to run it, because typically my most recent
rsync invocation was when I did this last time.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400306 is a reply to message #399978] |
Sun, 20 September 2020 17:50 |
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Originally posted by: Massimo M.
> You'll probably get this from others as well, but FreeBSD is the way to
> go for those fedup with Linux as bloatware. Install takes less than an
> hour via a text interface.
excuse me, but... on what machine?
i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter of hours.
In one hour you can install freebsd via network installation with a 10mb internet connection from a sloppy mirror...
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400311 is a reply to message #400306] |
Sun, 20 September 2020 18:44 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700 (PDT), "Massimo M."
<massimo79m@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You'll probably get this from others as well, but FreeBSD is the way to
>> go for those fedup with Linux as bloatware. Install takes less than an
>> hour via a text interface.
>
> excuse me, but... on what machine?
> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter of hours.
> In one hour you can install freebsd via network installation with a 10mb internet connection from a sloppy mirror...
Are you supporting his argument or disagreeing with him? Your "excuse
me, but on what machine?" suggests that you're disagreeing but then
your facts support his argument.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400313 is a reply to message #400306] |
Sun, 20 September 2020 19:06 |
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Originally posted by: Chris
On 09/20/20 22:50, Massimo M. wrote:
>> You'll probably get this from others as well, but FreeBSD is the way to
>> go for those fedup with Linux as bloatware. Install takes less than an
>> hour via a text interface.
>
> excuse me, but... on what machine?
> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter of hours.
> In one hour you can install freebsd via network installation with a 10mb internet connection from a sloppy mirror...
Quite possible, less than an hour can include 30 minutes,
but nor pedantic about that. Usually install everything
from a dvd, but yes, it is fast...
Chris
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400314 is a reply to message #400311] |
Sun, 20 September 2020 19:07 |
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Originally posted by: Chris
On 09/20/20 23:44, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700 (PDT), "Massimo M."
> <massimo79m@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> You'll probably get this from others as well, but FreeBSD is the way to
>>> go for those fedup with Linux as bloatware. Install takes less than an
>>> hour via a text interface.
>>
>> excuse me, but... on what machine?
>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter of hours.
>> In one hour you can install freebsd via network installation with a 10mb internet connection from a sloppy mirror...
>
> Are you supporting his argument or disagreeing with him? Your "excuse
> me, but on what machine?" suggests that you're disagreeing but then
> your facts support his argument.
Lol. The wonders of usenet :-)...
Chris
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400325 is a reply to message #400311] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 02:08 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 18:44:57 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700 (PDT), "Massimo M."
> <massimo79m@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> You'll probably get this from others as well, but FreeBSD is the way
>>> to go for those fedup with Linux as bloatware. Install takes less than
>>> an hour via a text interface.
>>
>> excuse me, but... on what machine?
>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>> of hours. In one hour you can install freebsd via network installation
>> with a 10mb internet connection from a sloppy mirror...
To many a 10Mb internet connection is still fast.
> Are you supporting his argument or disagreeing with him? Your "excuse
He's suggesting the argument is understated - personally I'm happy
with 25 minutes being less than an hour.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400328 is a reply to message #400306] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 04:36 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
> of hours.
I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400341 is a reply to message #400328] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 08:15 |
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Originally posted by: Chris
On 09/21/20 09:36, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
>
>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>> of hours.
>
> I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
> microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
> custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
>
>
Need to add some for post install setup, stuff that isn't included in
the basic install. Gui packages and config, customise rc.conf, ntp
client, nfs mounts etc.
But yes, faster than just about every other os for the basic install...
Chris
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400342 is a reply to message #400341] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 08:30 |
ted@loft.tnolan.com (
Messages: 161
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <rka5hq$nk8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09/21/20 09:36, Bob Eager wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
>>
>>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>>> of hours.
>>
>> I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
>> microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
>> custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
>>
>>
>
> Need to add some for post install setup, stuff that isn't included in
> the basic install. Gui packages and config, customise rc.conf, ntp
> client, nfs mounts etc.
>
> But yes, faster than just about every other os for the basic install...
>
> Chris
In my recent experience it is faster to install FreeBSD than to fix what the
lastest upgrade to Firefox has done to all my settings.
And, then of course there's always the worst case install scenario for
anything:
https://xkcd.com/349/
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400362 is a reply to message #400360] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 16:45 |
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Originally posted by: f6k
On 2020-09-21, Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I like my Palm: 2" x 3.8". Not great for a smartphone (camera is ok,
> screen is small) but it does all the things a smartphone needs to do.
> Doesn't do hotspot, if that is important to you. If you get it on
> sale with the juicepack it is a pretty good value. (I think).
>
> - Tim
i'm quite interested by this phone but they say that the battery is
quite weak (800mAh if i'm not wrong) and that it's hard to make it the
entire day (even while using it for small tasks, phoning and
messaging). what is your experience around that?
-f6k
--
~{,_,"> indignus LabRat - ftp://shl.huld.re
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400365 is a reply to message #400362] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 17:05 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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f6k <f6k@huld.re> writes:
> On 2020-09-21, Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I like my Palm: 2" x 3.8". Not great for a smartphone (camera is ok,
>> screen is small) but it does all the things a smartphone needs to do.
>> Doesn't do hotspot, if that is important to you. If you get it on
>> sale with the juicepack it is a pretty good value. (I think).
>>
>> - Tim
>
> i'm quite interested by this phone but they say that the battery is
> quite weak (800mAh if i'm not wrong) and that it's hard to make it the
> entire day (even while using it for small tasks, phoning and
> messaging). what is your experience around that?
Which is why, I suspect, that he said "with the juicepack", which
is an auxillary battery pack.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400371 is a reply to message #400362] |
Mon, 21 September 2020 20:19 |
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Originally posted by: Timothy McCaffrey
On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 4:46:37 PM UTC-4, f6k wrote:
> On 2020-09-21, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
>>
>> I like my Palm: 2" x 3.8". Not great for a smartphone (camera is ok,
>> screen is small) but it does all the things a smartphone needs to do.
>> Doesn't do hotspot, if that is important to you. If you get it on
>> sale with the juicepack it is a pretty good value. (I think).
>>
>> - Tim
> i'm quite interested by this phone but they say that the battery is
> quite weak (800mAh if i'm not wrong) and that it's hard to make it the
> entire day (even while using it for small tasks, phoning and
> messaging). what is your experience around that?
>
> -f6k
>
> --
> ~{,_,"> indignus LabRat - ftp://shl.huld.re
I don't usually run SmartPhone things (games, etc.) all that much. For things that drain the power (like navigation) I'm usually in the car and hook it up to the power plug(or I'm listening to an audio book, ditto). I do have a hiking app that loves to suck power (even when I'm not using it) and sometimes that causes an issue (and the phone notifies me that it is suck power and I can "force stop" it). I can usually (99% of the time) get through a whole day. There are times I have had to invoke the juice pack, which can charge it to about 80% from a dead battery. Since the juice pack also acts as a case, and the phone is so small to begin with, to me it is not a problem. (In fact, I think Palm could market a thicker version that just has a bigger battery and find a market).
I also don't make a lot of phone calls or do texting, so YMMV. OTOH, it charges pretty fast as well. If you drain the juice pack, when you hook up the charge cable the juice pack makes sure the phone is re-charged first, then it switches to charging itself.
With the juice pack it is almost exactly the same size (in all dimensions) as a Samsung Gravity III (not a Galaxy!). I do miss that slide out keyboard....
(The Gravity III lost its mind when the GPS clocks rolled over :( )
Occasionally, Palm has sales, and sale packages. I basically got the juice pack for "free". Or you can get it from Verizon.
- Tim
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400378 is a reply to message #400365] |
Tue, 22 September 2020 04:24 |
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Originally posted by: f6k
On 2020-09-21, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Which is why, I suspect, that he said "with the juicepack", which
> is an auxillary battery pack.
yes, but i found an opportunity without the juicepack, that's why i'm
still asking the question :)
-f6k
--
~{,_,"> indignus LabRat - ftp://shl.huld.re
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400379 is a reply to message #400371] |
Tue, 22 September 2020 04:23 |
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Originally posted by: f6k
On 2020-09-22, Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't usually run SmartPhone things (games, etc.) all that much.
> For things that drain the power (like navigation) I'm usually in the
> car and hook it up to the power plug(or I'm listening to an audio
> book, ditto). I do have a hiking app that loves to suck power (even
> when I'm not using it) and sometimes that causes an issue (and the
> phone notifies me that it is suck power and I can "force stop" it).
> I can usually (99% of the time) get through a whole day. There are
> times I have had to invoke the juice pack, which can charge it to
> about 80% from a dead battery. Since the juice pack also acts as a
> case, and the phone is so small to begin with, to me it is not a
> problem. (In fact, I think Palm could market a thicker version that
> just has a bigger battery and find a market).
>
> I also don't make a lot of phone calls or do texting, so YMMV. OTOH,
> it charges pretty fast as well. If you drain the juice pack, when
> you hook up the charge cable the juice pack makes sure the phone is
> re-charged first, then it switches to charging itself.
ok, thank you very much Tim.
> With the juice pack it is almost exactly the same size (in all
> dimensions) as a Samsung Gravity III (not a Galaxy!). I do miss that
> slide out keyboard.... (The Gravity III lost its mind when the GPS
> clocks rolled over :( )
>
> Occasionally, Palm has sales, and sale packages. I basically got the
> juice pack for "free". Or you can get it from Verizon.
actually i found it without the juicepack; still, i do own a powerbank.
but i was wondering if i could take the day as it is (my powerbank is
much larger than the phone). it seems you have little needs of your
phone, like i do, but the juicepack is a thing to have. again, thank
you for your feedback.
-f6k
--
~{,_,"> indignus LabRat - ftp://shl.huld.re
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400389 is a reply to message #400360] |
Tue, 22 September 2020 08:51 |
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Originally posted by: maus
On 2020-09-21, Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I like my Palm: 2" x 3.8". Not great for a smartphone (camera is ok, screen is small) but it does all the things a smartphone needs to do.
> Doesn't do hotspot, if that is important to you.
> If you get it on sale with the juicepack it is a pretty good value. (I think).
>
> - Tim
>
> I had a sharp zaurus, wonderful thing for its time, (pre-internet)
> and saw others using them at meetings, etc, but the main battery
> died, and I could not replace it. Nostalgia, I suppose.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400405 is a reply to message #400389] |
Tue, 22 September 2020 15:21 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 22 Sep 2020 12:51:50 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2020-09-21, Timothy McCaffrey <timcaffrey420@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I like my Palm: 2" x 3.8". Not great for a smartphone (camera is ok, screen is small) but it does all the things a smartphone needs to do.
>> Doesn't do hotspot, if that is important to you.
>> If you get it on sale with the juicepack it is a pretty good value. (I think).
>>
>> - Tim
>>
>> I had a sharp zaurus, wonderful thing for its time, (pre-internet)
>> and saw others using them at meetings, etc, but the main battery
>> died, and I could not replace it. Nostalgia, I suppose.
I had a Sony Clie--wonderful machine for its time. It took a long
time for smartphones to reach the same functionality level.
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400409 is a reply to message #400379] |
Tue, 22 September 2020 18:02 |
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Originally posted by: Timothy McCaffrey
On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 4:30:32 AM UTC-4, f6k wrote:
> On 2020-09-22, Timothy McCaffrey <> wrote:
>> I don't usually run SmartPhone things (games, etc.) all that much.
>> For things that drain the power (like navigation) I'm usually in the
>> car and hook it up to the power plug(or I'm listening to an audio
>> book, ditto). I do have a hiking app that loves to suck power (even
>> when I'm not using it) and sometimes that causes an issue (and the
>> phone notifies me that it is suck power and I can "force stop" it).
>> I can usually (99% of the time) get through a whole day. There are
>> times I have had to invoke the juice pack, which can charge it to
>> about 80% from a dead battery. Since the juice pack also acts as a
>> case, and the phone is so small to begin with, to me it is not a
>> problem. (In fact, I think Palm could market a thicker version that
>> just has a bigger battery and find a market).
>>
>> I also don't make a lot of phone calls or do texting, so YMMV. OTOH,
>> it charges pretty fast as well. If you drain the juice pack, when
>> you hook up the charge cable the juice pack makes sure the phone is
>> re-charged first, then it switches to charging itself.
> ok, thank you very much Tim.
>> With the juice pack it is almost exactly the same size (in all
>> dimensions) as a Samsung Gravity III (not a Galaxy!). I do miss that
>> slide out keyboard.... (The Gravity III lost its mind when the GPS
>> clocks rolled over :( )
>>
>> Occasionally, Palm has sales, and sale packages. I basically got the
>> juice pack for "free". Or you can get it from Verizon.
> actually i found it without the juicepack; still, i do own a powerbank.
> but i was wondering if i could take the day as it is (my powerbank is
> much larger than the phone). it seems you have little needs of your
> phone, like i do, but the juicepack is a thing to have. again, thank
> you for your feedback.
> -f6k
>
>
> --
> ~{,_,"> indignus LabRat - ftp://shl.huld.re
Just FYI: Palm is having a bundle sale: Phone & Juicepack for $299.
- Tim
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400563 is a reply to message #399986] |
Sat, 26 September 2020 08:05 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 2020-09-14, Dennis Boone wrote:
>> Use a systemd-free Linux distribution (Devuan comes to mind) and
>> do not install / start up those daemons that you don't need.
>
> Alpine is a lovably minimal (by default) linux distribution.
I somehow doubt the distribution makes much difference. If you don't
install the bloatware, Debian is pretty slim, too. Even the CentOS 7
VM I run at work only has a handful of daemons running. It's mostly a
matter of finding the option in the installer which lets /you/ choose
what to install. And staying away from systemd and Gnome.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400567 is a reply to message #400042] |
Sat, 26 September 2020 10:24 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 2020-09-15, songbird wrote:
....
> my desktop is MATE and that is pretty simple and does what
> i want it to do. lightdm is the desktop manager i like.
>
> there are plenty of other windowin environments out there
> though i just haven't really cared to get that much into
> looking for something else when what i have is working.
>
> years ago the Gnome desktop was what i liked and then it
> went crazy with things i didn't like so i switched to kde
> and then kde did the same thing so i ended up finding MATE
> and have stuck with that since then.
That's why I have no desktop environment -- there's nothing the UI
enthusiasts can change. (Unless they deem X11 itself obsolete; then
I would be in trouble.)
My screen has looked the same since the late 1990s. (It looked the
same at university in 1990 too, but then it was in black and white.)
I log in in text mode, run 'startx' and get a simple window manager
with some menus and four virtual screens, plus the classic xclock(1)
and xload(1) in a corner. I don't see what value a desktop
environment would add.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400570 is a reply to message #400567] |
Sat, 26 September 2020 11:07 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
> On Tue, 2020-09-15, songbird wrote:
> ...
>> my desktop is MATE and that is pretty simple and does what
>> i want it to do. lightdm is the desktop manager i like.
>>
>> there are plenty of other windowin environments out there
>> though i just haven't really cared to get that much into
>> looking for something else when what i have is working.
>>
>> years ago the Gnome desktop was what i liked and then it
>> went crazy with things i didn't like so i switched to kde
>> and then kde did the same thing so i ended up finding MATE
>> and have stuck with that since then.
>
> That's why I have no desktop environment -- there's nothing the UI
> enthusiasts can change. (Unless they deem X11 itself obsolete; then
> I would be in trouble.)
>
> My screen has looked the same since the late 1990s. (It looked the
> same at university in 1990 too, but then it was in black and white.)
>
> I log in in text mode, run 'startx' and get a simple window manager
> with some menus and four virtual screens, plus the classic xclock(1)
> and xload(1) in a corner. I don't see what value a desktop
> environment would add.
xclock doesn't seem to respond to keyboard keys (I want quit at least).
So I run dclock instead.
I get the hours/minutes in big easy to read digits then weekday, month,
day, year are smaller.
xload is nice but I've got my own hacked up xsysstats.
It shows multiple readings in the same space, just using different
colors for each measurement. So, in one window I get CPU, packets,
and disk activity. I hacked it to also show uptime (as text).
I think it's necessary to have something monitoring system resources
visible at all times.
Like you, same screen since the 90s.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400571 is a reply to message #400342] |
Sat, 26 September 2020 11:25 |
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Originally posted by: Chris
On 09/21/20 13:30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article<rka5hq$nk8$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Chris<xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 09/21/20 09:36, Bob Eager wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 14:50:13 -0700, Massimo M. wrote:
>>>
>>>> i installed freebsd on a G8 microserver in less than 25 minutes, and a
>>>> debian on a 1-cpu VM on a ryzen3600 with a unexpensive ssd in a quarter
>>>> of hours.
>>>
>>> I don't even think it takes me that long to install FreeBSD, also on a G8
>>> microserver! But then I am fairly used to it. 15 minutes, including some
>>> custom stuff at a shell prompt along the way (I set up mirrored disks).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Need to add some for post install setup, stuff that isn't included in
>> the basic install. Gui packages and config, customise rc.conf, ntp
>> client, nfs mounts etc.
>>
>> But yes, faster than just about every other os for the basic install...
>>
>> Chris
>
> In my recent experience it is faster to install FreeBSD than to fix what the
> lastest upgrade to Firefox has done to all my settings.
>
> And, then of course there's always the worst case install scenario for
> anything:
>
> https://xkcd.com/349/
I rarely if ever upgrade anything, once a system is stable. Really don't
need the paranoia of security fixes every other day. As for Firefox,
still on 52.9esr, as that's the last version that will run the classic
theme restorer plugin. I like tabs below and icons grouped at one end
etc, all kinds of stuff that Firefox's later revs have broken with no
alternatives...
Chris
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400576 is a reply to message #400567] |
Sat, 26 September 2020 12:49 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 26 Sep 2020 14:24:55 GMT
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> That's why I have no desktop environment -- there's nothing the UI
> enthusiasts can change. (Unless they deem X11 itself obsolete; then
> I would be in trouble.)
There is Wayland which is aimed at doing just that.
> My screen has looked the same since the late 1990s. (It looked the
> same at university in 1990 too, but then it was in black and white.)
Mine changed from twm to fvwm to flwm between 1990 and the late
1990s but has remained unchanged ever since. Virtual desktops were a great
addition and flwm has the nicest implementation IMHO.
> I log in in text mode, run 'startx' and get a simple window manager
startx & logout
> with some menus and four virtual screens, plus the classic xclock(1)
> and xload(1) in a corner. I don't see what value a desktop
> environment would add.
Many years ago when Gnome was first announced I built it and
installed it to see what the fuss was about. After an incredible length of
time the compilation finished (it took longer than building the base OS and
X11 combined). I fired it up and was seriously underwhelmed to see that the
result of all that compilation was a panel on the screen with a short
handful of widgets in it. I could have written something using C and Athena
that looked like that in the time it took to compile.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: LINUX, Windows, MSDOS, CP/M; Bloatware all? [message #400577 is a reply to message #400576] |
Sat, 26 September 2020 13:47 |
ted@loft.tnolan.com (
Messages: 161
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <20200926174911.3f339d7c1b52efaa8fffe54c@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 26 Sep 2020 14:24:55 GMT
> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>
>> That's why I have no desktop environment -- there's nothing the UI
>> enthusiasts can change. (Unless they deem X11 itself obsolete; then
>> I would be in trouble.)
>
> There is Wayland which is aimed at doing just that.
>
>> My screen has looked the same since the late 1990s. (It looked the
>> same at university in 1990 too, but then it was in black and white.)
>
> Mine changed from twm to fvwm to flwm between 1990 and the late
> 1990s but has remained unchanged ever since. Virtual desktops were a great
> addition and flwm has the nicest implementation IMHO.
>
>> I log in in text mode, run 'startx' and get a simple window manager
>
> startx & logout
>
>> with some menus and four virtual screens, plus the classic xclock(1)
>> and xload(1) in a corner. I don't see what value a desktop
>> environment would add.
>
> Many years ago when Gnome was first announced I built it and
> installed it to see what the fuss was about. After an incredible length of
> time the compilation finished (it took longer than building the base OS and
> X11 combined). I fired it up and was seriously underwhelmed to see that the
> result of all that compilation was a panel on the screen with a short
> handful of widgets in it. I could have written something using C and Athena
> that looked like that in the time it took to compile.
>
I remember trying to compile gnome on Solaris when it first came out (and
before there were Solaris builds). It seemed to depend on every open source
library ever written, so I spent weeks trying to compile the dependances.
Never did get it finished.
--
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