Must-read computer folklore books [message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 05:43 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
I have two:
"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
them wrong.
"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
to work there.
Others?
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399317 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 07:22 |
bert
Messages: 56 Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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On Saturday, 5 September 2020 10:43:39 UTC+1, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> I have two:
>
> "Abstracting Away The Machine" . . .
>
> "The Soul Of A New Machine" . . .
>
> Others?
I think there's nothing to beat
"The Making of the Micro" by Christopher Evans.
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399323 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 09:44 |
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Originally posted by: Rick Umali
On 2020-09-05, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> I have two:
>
> "Abstracting Away The Machine", ...
>
> "The Soul Of A New Machine", ...
I like the recommendation for "The Soul of a New Machine", by Tracy
Kidder. One of my all-time favorite books!
My recommendations:
1) UNIX: A History and a Memoir, by Brian Kernighan. He self-published
this in 2019, and it's an intriguing look at the culture of AT&T Bell
Labs that spawned C and Unix. I learned that typesetting played a big
driver in the growth of Unix.
2) The Story of Commodore: A Company on the Edge, by Brian Bagnall.
Unfortunately, this book looks out of print, but I read it in 2007 and
it left a strong impression on me. History is written by the winners,
so we know all the history of Microsoft and Apple but Commodore could
have been a winner. The book shows just how different things were back
in 70s and 80s, how wide open the industry was. Very fascinating!
--
Rick Umali / rickumali.com
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399332 is a reply to message #399329] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 12:22 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> "The Soul Of A New Machine"
>
> This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
Asimov's foreword is priceless. Here's part of it:
# Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
# outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
# raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
# insanity.
# There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
# some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
# that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
# know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
# properties combined into one delectable whole.
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399341 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 14:02 |
usenet
Messages: 556 Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Folklore, or computer history?
Folklore would be apocryphal stories like the ones about Mel, real programmers,
the cookie monster, and the like. Stories that "grew in the telling," ones that
"a friend of a friend" swears is true.
History is of course fact-based, well-researched with (hopefully) references and
cites, and stories told by the principals.
I have haphazardly been collecting a bibliography of computer history and
folklore. At the moment it is completely unorganized. Perhaps I could pull out
the top fifty or so most notable titles.
> I have two:
> "Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
> "The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
People making book recommendations should at least include the author(s).
A better cite would include publisher and year of publication.
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399344 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 14:24 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606 Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 2020-09-05, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
> I have two:
>
> "Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
> compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
> early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
> for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
> never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
> them wrong.
>
> "The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
> competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
> exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
> the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
> to work there.
And that's this one:
%A Tracy Kidder
%T The Soul of a New Machine
%I Penguin Books
%D 1983
I have that one (two copies) and the following. None of them are
about history per se, but all are in some sense historical.
This one is a bit similar; it's about a disaster project at Microsoft
during the late Windows 3.1 era:
%A Fred Moody
%T I sing the body electronic:
a year with Microsoft on the multimedia frontier
%D 1995
%I Hodder and Stoughton
%C London
This is more about ways of working, but the examples range back to the
1950s:
%A Frederick P. Brooks, Jr.
%T The mythical man-month: Essays on software engineering
%I Addison-Wesley
%D 1995
%O Anniversary edition with four new chapters
A rare example of swedish books on programming, pre-home computer era.
I think its purpose was mostly to educate the public, but it's obvious
that it's written by a programmer. He teaches some FORTRAN.
%A Gunnar Hellström
%T Programmering av datamaskiner
%S W&Wserien
%V 166
%I Wahlström & Widstrand
%C Stockholm
%D 1967
Teaches a variant of the Unix philosophy; contains bits of text from
various people who were involved in the 1970s and 1980s. Available
online.
%A Eric Steven Raymond
%T The Art of Unix Programming
%S Addison-Wesley Professional Computing Series
%I Addison-Wesley
%D 2004
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399345 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 14:30 |
scott
Messages: 4272 Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> I have two:
>
> "Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
> compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
> early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
> for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
> never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
> them wrong.
>
> "The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
> competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
> exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
> the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
> to work there.
>
> Others?
"Atanasoff" by Clark R. Mollenhoff.
Dr. J. V. Atanasoff invented the electronic digital computer.
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399346 is a reply to message #399329] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 14:32 |
scott
Messages: 4272 Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> "The Soul Of A New Machine"
>
> This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
I was once at a VC meeting, vetting a proposal from a budding
startup. One of the consultants for the startup introduced
himself, and added "You may have read about me in the _Soul of
a New Machine_".
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399347 is a reply to message #399332] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 14:33 |
scott
Messages: 4272 Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
>> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>> "The Soul Of A New Machine"
>>
>> This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
>
> That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
> show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
> chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
>
> Asimov's foreword is priceless. Here's part of it:
>
> # Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
> # outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
> # raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
> # insanity.
>
> # There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
> # some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
> # that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
> # know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
> # properties combined into one delectable whole.
>
There's always Derek Lowes blog:
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/?s=things+I+won%27t+wo rk+with
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399354 is a reply to message #399332] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 15:02 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4946 Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:22:48 -0000 (UTC)
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
>> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>> "The Soul Of A New Machine"
>>
>> This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
>
> That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
> show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
> chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
I prepared a decent epub of it from a PDF I found, getting the
chemical formulae right was fun.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399358 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 15:58 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sat, 05 Sep 2020 09:43:37 +0000, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> I have two:
>
> "Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
> compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
> early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged for
> being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would never create
> efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove them wrong.
>
> "The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a competitor
> for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and exploiting them to
> the bone. The project succeeded, and saved the company for a while, but
> I certainly would not have liked to work there.
The second one, the Tracy Kidder book, was my immediate thought.
But another has to be the Gordon Bell book, "Computer Engineering", which
traces DEC from it's beginnings up as far as about 1980. Little on the
VAX, but all thge PDPs are there.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399363 is a reply to message #399341] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 16:31 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 1004 Registered: January 2012
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usenet@only.tnx (Questor) writes:
> History is of course fact-based, well-researched with (hopefully)
> references and cites, and stories told by the principals.
I came late to programming -- age 45 -- and started with an already
obsolete Osborne I because I could get it on an even swap for a
hand-raised copper cook pot. Before I moved on to MS-DOS six years
later and then to Unix and Linux, I learned Z80, BASIC, C and a little
Lisp and supported two people who wrote master's theses on Osbornes
I'd accumulated, refurbished and loaned to them.
So I was intrigued by:
Hyper-Growth -- The Rise and Fall of Osborne Computer Corporation
Adam Osborne & John Dvorak
Idthekkethan Publishing, 1984
The paperback edition (1985) has an additional forward by Adam
Osborne.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399375 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 17:49 |
usenet
Messages: 556 Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
I haven't read all of these, and I'm not sure how many would be classified in a
superlative "must read" category, but here are fifty representative titles on
computer history and folklore to get you started:
The Man Who Knew Too Much: Alan Turing and the Invention of the Computer
-- David Leavitt
John Von Neumann: The Scientific Genius Who Pioneered the Modern Computer, Game
Theory, Nuclear Deterrence, and Much More
-- Norman Macrae
Eniac: The Triumph and Tragedies of the World's First Computer
-- Scott McCartney
From Dits to Bits: A Personal History of the Electronic Computer
-- Herman Lukoff
The Dream Machine: J.C.R. Licklider and the Revolution That Made Computing
Personal
-- M. Mitchell Waldrop
As We May Think
-- Vannevar Bush (The Atlantic, January 1945)
A History of Modern Computing
-- Paul E. Ceruzzi
Crystal Fire: The Invention of the Transistor and the Birth of the Information
Age
-- M. Riordan and L. Hoddeson
Fire in the Valley: The Making of The Personal Computer
-- Paul Freiberger and Michael Swaine
The Soul of a New Machine
-- Tracy Kidder
Computing Castastrophes
-- Robert L. Glass
Software Runaways: Lessons Learned from Massive Software Project Failures
-- Robert L. Glass
Computing Calamities: Lessons Learned from Products, Projects, and Companies
that Failed
-- Robert L. Glass
Accidental Empires: How the Boys of Silicon Valley Make Their Millions, Battle
Foreign Competition, and Still Can't Get a Date
-- Robert X. Cringely
Startup: A Silicon Valley Adventure
-- Jerry Kaplan
The New New Thing: A Silicon Valley Story
-- Michael M. Lewis
The Silicon Boys: And Their Valley of Dreams
-- David A. Kaplan
What the Dormouse Said: How the 60's Counterculture Shaped the Personal
Computer Industry
-- John Markoff
Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins Of The Internet
-- Katie Hafner and Matthew Lyon
The Nudist on the Late Shift and Other True Tales of Silicon Valley
-- Po Bronson
Think: A Biography of the Watsons and IBM
-- William Rodgers
Big Blues: The Unmaking of IBM
-- Paul Carroll
Broken Promises: An Unconventional View of What Went Wrong at IBM
-- Daniel Quinn Mills
Bill & Dave: How Hewlett and Packard Built the World's Greatest Company
-- Michael S. Malone
Fumbling the Future: How Xerox Invented, then Ignored, the First Personal
Computer
-- Douglas K. Smith and Robert C. Alexander
iWoz: Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal Computer,
Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
-- Steve Wozniak (with Gina Smith)
Insanely Great: The Life and Times of Macintosh, the Computer That Changed
Everything
-- Steven Levy
Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing
-- Randall E. Stross
The Second Coming of Steve Jobs
-- Alan Deutschman
iCon Steve Jobs: The Greatest Second Act in the History of Business
-- Jeffrey S. Young and William L. Simon
AOL.COM
-- Kara Swisher
Gates: How Microsoft's Mogul Reinvented an Industry -- and Made Himself the
Richest Man in America
-- Stephen Manes and Paul Andrews
The Microsoft Way: The Real Story of How the Company Outsmarts Its Competition
-- Randall E. Stross
Overdrive: Bill Gates and the Race to Control Cyberspace
-- James Wallace
Softwar: An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison and Oracle
-- Matthew Symonds
Speeding the Net: The Inside Story of Netscape and How It Challenged Microsoft
-- Joshua Quittner and Michelle Slatalla
The Perfect Store: Inside eBay
-- Adam Cohen
The Accidental Billionaires: The Founding of Facebook, a Tale of Sex, Money,
Genius, and Betrayal
-- Ben Mezrich
The Search: How Google and Its Rivals Rewrote the Rules of Business and
Transformed Our Culture
-- John Battelle
In the Plex: How Google Thinks, Works, and Shapes Our Lives
-- Steven Levy
Computer Lib / Dream Machines
-- Ted Nelson
In the Beginning Was the Command Line
-- Neal Stephenson
The Network Revolution: Confessions of a Computer Scientist
-- Jacque Vallee
Silicon Snake Oil
-- Clifford Stoll
The Devouring Fungus: Tales of the Computer Age
-- Karla Jennings
Joystick Nation: How Videogames Ate Our Quarters, Won Our Hearts, and Rewired
Our Minds
-- J.C. Herz
Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution
-- Steven Levy
The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage
-- Clifford Stoll
The Hacker Crackdown: Law and Disorder on the Electronic Frontier
-- Bruce Sterling
Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier
-- John Markoff (with Katie Hafner)
Masters of Destruction: The Gang That Ruled Cyberspace
-- Michelle Slatalla and Joshua Quittner
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399377 is a reply to message #399332] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 18:19 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:22:48 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
>> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>> "The Soul Of A New Machine"
>>
>> This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
>
> That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
> show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
> chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
>
> Asimov's foreword is priceless. Here's part of it:
>
> # Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
> # outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
> # raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
> # insanity.
>
> # There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
> # some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
> # that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
> # know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
> # properties combined into one delectable whole.
I have seen a documentary on the ME-262 which talks about the fuels
used for it. They fit into that list of dangers to.
--
Jim
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399384 is a reply to message #399377] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 20:15 |
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Originally posted by: Fred Smith
On 2020-09-05, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:22:48 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
> <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> schrieb:
>>> On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The Soul Of A New Machine"
>>>
>>> This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
>>
>> That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
>> show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
>> chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
>>
>> Asimov's foreword is priceless. Here's part of it:
>>
>> # Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
>> # outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
>> # raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
>> # insanity.
>>
>> # There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
>> # some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
>> # that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
>> # know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
>> # properties combined into one delectable whole.
>
> I have seen a documentary on the ME-262 which talks about the fuels
> used for it. They fit into that list of dangers to.
>
Wish there were more books like Ignition (John D. Clark). Found mine
in a long-gone second hand bookshop. Had that unmistakable and pungent "chem-lab"
smell when I bought it 30 odd years ago, not any more unfortunately.
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399388 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sat, 05 September 2020 20:38 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8402 Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> I have two:
>
> "Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
> compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
> early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
> for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
> never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
> them wrong.
>
> "The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
> competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
> exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
> the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
> to work there.
>
> Others?
>
I read SOANM twice. Have a copy queued up to reread “real soon now”. Never
heard of “abstracting”, have to look it up.
--
Pete
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399414 is a reply to message #399388] |
Sun, 06 September 2020 04:56 |
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Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
> I read SOANM twice. Have a copy queued up to reread “real soon now”. Never
> heard of “abstracting”, have to look it up.
It's fairly new, ans since somebody asked for a proper format:
@book{book,
title = {Abstracting away the machine: the history of the FORTRAN
programming language (FORmula Translation)},
author = {Mark Jones Lorenzo},
publisher = {SE BOOKS},
edition {1st},
year = 2019,
isbn = {979-1-082-39594-9},
address = {Philadelphia, PA},
}
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399431 is a reply to message #399396] |
Sun, 06 September 2020 11:30 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8402 Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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I've belatedly collected these posts, and I'll try to create a webpage
with the list.
I probably missed them, but here are two I liked:
Jackson, Tim: Inside Intel; Dutton, 1997
ISBN: 0-525-94141-X
Hiltzik, Michael: Dealers of Lightning, Xerox PARC and the dawn of the
Computer Age; HarperCollins, 1999
ISBN: 0-88730-891-0
I rarely buy new books, most of what I have is either second-hand online
or garage sale items. Cheap way to build a library.
On 9/5/20 6:31 PM, John Levine wrote:
> In article <rivmk9$toi$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> you write:
>> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> If you really want folklore:
>
> Computer Lib/Dream Machines -- Ted Nelson
>
> There's a picture of me on page 47.
>
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399612 is a reply to message #399375] |
Tue, 08 September 2020 17:10 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5354 Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-09-05, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> Computing Castastrophes
> -- Robert L. Glass
>
> Software Runaways: Lessons Learned from Massive Software Project Failures
> -- Robert L. Glass
>
> Computing Calamities: Lessons Learned from Products, Projects, and Companies
> that Failed
> -- Robert L. Glass
The one of his that I have is titled "The Universal Elixir and
Other Projects That Failed". It was published by Computerworld
Press and is a collection of their columns, which he wrote under
the pseudonym Miles Benson.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399840 is a reply to message #399821] |
Thu, 10 September 2020 23:53 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399 Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:12:44 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
> Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> schrieb:
>>> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>>
>> Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
>>
>> Cornelia Rooijendijk
>> "Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
>
> "Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
I think Boogle translate is right, since with its output as a hint, I can see the etymology going on here:
All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
be-found.
John Savard
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399857 is a reply to message #399840] |
Fri, 11 September 2020 09:48 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8402 Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:12:44 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>> Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> schrieb:
>>>> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>>>
>>> Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
>>>
>>> Cornelia Rooijendijk
>>> "Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
>>
>> "Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
>
> I think Boogle translate is right, since with its output as a hint, I can
> see the etymology going on here:
>
> All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
> different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
> be-found.
>
Yes, it’s pretty obvious once you know what it says. Google sometimes has
problems with verb tenses, where other languages don’t seem to use past
tense as much as English.
--
Pete
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399879 is a reply to message #399840] |
Fri, 11 September 2020 15:22 |
usenet
Messages: 556 Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 20:53:24 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:12:44 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>> Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> schrieb:
>>>> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>>>
>>> Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
>>>
>>> Cornelia Rooijendijk
>>> "Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
>>
>> "Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
>
> I think Boogle translate is right, since with its output as a hint, I can see the etymology going on here:
>
> All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
> different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
> be-found.
German werden is become, used to indicate events in the future. German must is
mussen. You've got two musts in there. "All must now become out-found."
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #399911 is a reply to message #399879] |
Sat, 12 September 2020 08:32 |
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Originally posted by: maus
On 2020-09-11, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 20:53:24 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:12:44 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>> Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> schrieb:
>>>> > What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>>>>
>>>> Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
>>>>
>>>> Cornelia Rooijendijk
>>>> "Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
>>>
>>> "Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
>>
>> I think Boogle translate is right, since with its output as a hint, I can see the etymology going on here:
>>
>> All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
>> different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
>> be-found.
>
> German werden is become, used to indicate events in the future. German must is
> mussen. You've got two musts in there. "All must now become out-found."
The famous "I have been sitting here for so long, and I have not
become a sausage."
Some sorts of Arabic have a 'idiom'(?) in which hoped for events are used as
if they have occured. Good for politicians,
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401111 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 02:50 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606 Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 2020-09-06, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 9/5/2020 4:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>
> Clifford Stoll, The Cuckoo's Egg
It would also be interesting to read his ridiculed "Silicon Snake-Oil"
again, now that more people believe that the Internet isn't good for us.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401113 is a reply to message #399309] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 04:11 |
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Originally posted by: Dallas
On 9/5/2020 4:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Programmers at Work - Interviews" by Susan Lammers
including interviews of
Dan Bricklin
Bob Carr
Bob Frankston
Bill Gates
Michael Hawley
Andy Hertzfeld
Toru Iwatani
Gary Kildall
Scott Kim
Butler Lampson
Jaron Lanier
Ray Ozzie
John Page
Wayne Ratliff
Jef Raskin
Peter Roizen
Jonathon Sachs
Charles Simonyi
John Warnock
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401114 is a reply to message #401113] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 04:17 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 268 Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-10-18, Dallas <dallas@texas.usa> wrote:
> "Programmers at Work - Interviews" by Susan Lammers
> including interviews of
> Dan Bricklin
> Bob Carr
> Bob Frankston
> Bill Gates
> Michael Hawley
> Andy Hertzfeld
> Toru Iwatani
> Gary Kildall
> Scott Kim
> Butler Lampson
> Jaron Lanier
> Ray Ozzie
> John Page
> Wayne Ratliff
> Jef Raskin
> Peter Roizen
> Jonathon Sachs
> Charles Simonyi
> John Warnock
Maybe I ought to read it. I may not be as knowledgeable in the field as
I thought.
Obviously I know Gates, Kildall, Lampson and Simonyi. Dan Bricklin rings
a bell but can't place him. I wouldn't know who the others are without
googling.
I'd have liked Jamie Zawinski to be in there as well.
Niklas
--
"Ah! He has become one with his inner self!"
"He's passed out."
"That too."
-- Vir and Garibaldi in Babylon 5:"The Parliament of Dreams"
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401116 is a reply to message #401115] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 04:25 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 268 Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-10-18, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>
>> Dallas wrote:
>>
>>> "Programmers at Work - Interviews" by Susan Lammers
>>
>> I'd have liked Jamie Zawinski to be in there as well.
>
> First published in 1986, depending how long the interviews took before
> that, he might not have even been at work by then
>
> <https://www.jwz.org/about.html>
Ah, that'll do it then.
Niklas
--
IF IF = THEN THEN THEN = ELSE; ELSE ELSE = IF ;
-- Norman deForest explains the joys of PL/I
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401117 is a reply to message #401114] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 04:27 |
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Originally posted by: Dallas
On 10/18/2020 3:17 AM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2020-10-18, Dallas <dallas@texas.usa> wrote:
>> "Programmers at Work - Interviews" by Susan Lammers
>> including interviews of
>> Dan Bricklin
>> Bob Carr
>> Bob Frankston
>> Bill Gates
>> Michael Hawley
>> Andy Hertzfeld
>> Toru Iwatani
>> Gary Kildall
>> Scott Kim
>> Butler Lampson
>> Jaron Lanier
>> Ray Ozzie
>> John Page
>> Wayne Ratliff
>> Jef Raskin
>> Peter Roizen
>> Jonathon Sachs
>> Charles Simonyi
>> John Warnock
>
> Maybe I ought to read it. I may not be as knowledgeable in the field as I thought.
> Obviously I know Gates, Kildall, Lampson and Simonyi. Dan Bricklin rings
> a bell but can't place him. I wouldn't know who the others are without googling.
> I'd have liked Jamie Zawinski to be in there as well.
> Niklas
>
This book cover image will help sort why those individuals were selected for "Programmers at Work".
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/915W0oTNBkL .jpg
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401118 is a reply to message #401111] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 04:31 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 06:50:58 +0000, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Sun, 2020-09-06, Dave Garland wrote:
>> On 9/5/2020 4:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> What are the must-read computer folklore books?
>>
>> Clifford Stoll, The Cuckoo's Egg
>
> It would also be interesting to read his ridiculed "Silicon Snake-Oil"
> again, now that more people believe that the Internet isn't good for us.
I never saw the original post, but of course Tracy Kidder's "Sould of a
New Machine" must be in the list.
I'd add Gordon Bell's "Computer Engineering".
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401119 is a reply to message #401117] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 04:32 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 268 Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-10-18, Dallas <dallas@texas.usa> wrote:
> On 10/18/2020 3:17 AM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>> On 2020-10-18, Dallas <dallas@texas.usa> wrote:
>>> "Programmers at Work - Interviews" by Susan Lammers
>>
>> Maybe I ought to read it. I may not be as knowledgeable in the field as I thought.
>> Obviously I know Gates, Kildall, Lampson and Simonyi. Dan Bricklin rings
>> a bell but can't place him. I wouldn't know who the others are without googling.
>> I'd have liked Jamie Zawinski to be in there as well.
>> Niklas
>
> This book cover image will help sort why those individuals were selected for "Programmers at Work".
>
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/915W0oTNBkL .jpg
Ah! Handy. Thanks. Now I'm googling for some of the projects instead,
like PFS:FILE. :-) I was very young when the book came out, only born in
1980. I've sometimes been seen as a bit of an oddball for taking such an
interest in the history of the field, given that (but clearly I still
have a lot to learn).
Niklas
--
Buy a bloody kettle and a teapot. Good grief, what else is are the spare
sockets on the UPS for? When the power goes down, the -first- thing I
want is a hot beverage.
-- Dave in asr
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Re: Must-read computer folklore books [message #401122 is a reply to message #401117] |
Sun, 18 October 2020 05:13 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606 Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 2020-10-18, Dallas wrote:
> On 10/18/2020 3:17 AM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>> On 2020-10-18, Dallas <dallas@texas.usa> wrote:
>>> "Programmers at Work - Interviews" by Susan Lammers
>>> including interviews of
>>> Dan Bricklin
>>> Bob Carr
>>> Bob Frankston
>>> Bill Gates
>>> Michael Hawley
>>> Andy Hertzfeld
>>> Toru Iwatani
>>> Gary Kildall
>>> Scott Kim
>>> Butler Lampson
>>> Jaron Lanier
>>> Ray Ozzie
>>> John Page
>>> Wayne Ratliff
>>> Jef Raskin
>>> Peter Roizen
>>> Jonathon Sachs
>>> Charles Simonyi
>>> John Warnock
>>
>> Maybe I ought to read it. I may not be as knowledgeable in the field as I thought.
>> Obviously I know Gates, Kildall, Lampson and Simonyi. Dan Bricklin rings
>> a bell but can't place him. I wouldn't know who the others are without googling.
>> I'd have liked Jamie Zawinski to be in there as well.
>> Niklas
>>
>
> This book cover image will help sort why those individuals were selected for "Programmers at Work".
>
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/915W0oTNBkL .jpg
Almost exclusively from (what became) the PC world. Is the book more
about the business side?
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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