| Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398457] |
Tue, 25 August 2020 14:41  |
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Originally posted by: Scott Alfter
I think I might've had MAME (or MESS) set up years ago to do TI-99/4A
emulation and it appeared to do OK at that, so I thought I'd give its Apple
II emulation a shot. I found the file it needs to emulate a ROM 3 IIGS, put
it where it needs to go, and fired up the emulator. I get the starting
screen, and then the sliding apple when it can't find a boot device...and
that's as far as it goes. If I'm reading the documentation right, F12 is
supposed to be Reset, but Ctrl-F12 and Ctrl-Alt-F12 both do nothing. F3 by
itself restarts the emulator, which kinda makes it like OA-Ctrl-Reset, but
without Ctrl-Reset, I can't drop into BASIC. Esc in combination with any
modifier hides the emulator and returns to the desktop, so the Control Panel
isn't accessible either. I've tried this on both Windows 10 and Gentoo
Linux, and they behave pretty much the same way...equally broken. :-| I know
about Scroll Lock; switching keyboard-emulation modes makes no difference.
Is there something I'm doing wrong, or should I stick with the Apple
II-specific emulators?
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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| Re: Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398458 is a reply to message #398457] |
Tue, 25 August 2020 14:51  |
Christopher G. Mason
Messages: 156
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 8/25/2020 2:41 PM, Scott Alfter wrote:
> Is there something I'm doing wrong, or should I stick with the Apple
> II-specific emulators?
>
MAME's IIgs driver does work. I had it working awhile back to fix an
Ensoniq 5503 DOC bug. At the time I used a frontend to set it up and it
just "worked". The bigger problem at the time (since fixed) was the lack
of support of 2MG hard drive images. You had to emulate a CFFA card and
create new raw image files for it.
It was likely due to the philosophy of the MAME team to only emulate
actual hardware devices. Most emulators take advantage of the in-built
SmartPort firmware interface and emulate a high level SmartPort storage
device in an unused slot. Quick-n-dirty and very flexible. The very real
CFFA3000 card took the same approach.
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| Re: Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398497 is a reply to message #398457] |
Tue, 25 August 2020 20:44 |
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Originally posted by: James Davis
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 11:41:04 AM UTC-7, Scott Alfter wrote:
> I think I might've had MAME (or MESS) set up years ago to do TI-99/4A
> emulation and it appeared to do OK at that, so I thought I'd give its Apple
> II emulation a shot. I found the file it needs to emulate a ROM 3 IIGS, put
> it where it needs to go, and fired up the emulator. I get the starting
> screen, and then the sliding apple when it can't find a boot device...and
> that's as far as it goes. If I'm reading the documentation right, F12 is
> supposed to be Reset, but Ctrl-F12 and Ctrl-Alt-F12 both do nothing. F3 by
> itself restarts the emulator, which kinda makes it like OA-Ctrl-Reset, but
> without Ctrl-Reset, I can't drop into BASIC. Esc in combination with any
> modifier hides the emulator and returns to the desktop, so the Control Panel
> isn't accessible either. I've tried this on both Windows 10 and Gentoo
> Linux, and they behave pretty much the same way...equally broken. :-| I know
> about Scroll Lock; switching keyboard-emulation modes makes no difference.
> Is there something I'm doing wrong, or should I stick with the Apple
> II-specific emulators?
>
> _/_
> / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
> (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
> \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Have you asked this question on <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.games.mame>?
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| Re: Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398524 is a reply to message #398499] |
Wed, 26 August 2020 11:38 |
qkumba
Messages: 1584
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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It's not broken. It's behaving exactly as the real hardware does.
It can't find a boot device because you haven't selected a disk to boot.
add "-flop1 name_of_5.25_image" or "-flop3 name_of_3.5_image" or "-sl7 cffa202 -hard1 name_of_hdv_image" and you'll get a different result,
replacing "name_of_*_image" with the name of a disk image to boot.
Regarding an hdv image, may I suggest that you download this:
https://archive.org/details/TotalReplay
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| Re: Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398534 is a reply to message #398524] |
Wed, 26 August 2020 13:17 |
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Originally posted by: Scott Alfter
In article <06008e10-f112-483e-9173-67085c450556n@googlegroups.com>,
qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not broken. It's behaving exactly as the real hardware does.
> It can't find a boot device because you haven't selected a disk to boot.
> add "-flop1 name_of_5.25_image" or "-flop3 name_of_3.5_image" or "-sl7
> cffa202 -hard1 name_of_hdv_image" and you'll get a different result,
> replacing "name_of_*_image" with the name of a disk image to boot.
> Regarding an hdv image, may I suggest that you download this:
> https://archive.org/details/TotalReplay
I know how the real hardware behaves; I've been using it for 35 years. If
you're at the sliding-apple screen on account of not having popped in a disk
and you press Ctrl-Reset, a real IIGS (or most emulators) will drop you to a
BASIC prompt. MAME doesn't do that. OA-Ctrl-Esc on a real IIGS (or most
emulators) will take you to the CDA menu, through which you can get at the
Control Palen. MAME doesn't do that, either. F12 is supposed to be mapped
to Reset and the left Alt key to Open-Apple. The same keymapping is used by
MAME's IIe emulation, and the Reset sequences work there as expected.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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| Re: Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398627 is a reply to message #398534] |
Thu, 27 August 2020 14:23 |
qkumba
Messages: 1584
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> If you're at the sliding-apple screen on account of not having popped in a disk
> and you press Ctrl-Reset, a real IIGS (or most emulators) will drop you to a
> BASIC prompt.
Okay, we're talking about completely different things.
I thought that you were complaining about the lack of anything booting, based on the "can't find a boot device...and that's as far as it goes" so I showed how to get a disk booting.
Now I see that you were actually talking about the keyboard handling.
> MAME doesn't do that. OA-Ctrl-Esc on a real IIGS (or most
> emulators) will take you to the CDA menu, through which you can get at the
> Control Palen. MAME doesn't do that, either.
Hold down the right Alt during the boot and you'll get your CDA menu.
> F12 is supposed to be mapped to Reset.
That sounds like a bug. I'll look into that.
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| Re: Is MAME even usable for Apple II emulation? [message #398680 is a reply to message #398534] |
Fri, 28 August 2020 01:51 |
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Originally posted by: awanderin
Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> writes:
> In article <06008e10-f112-483e-9173-67085c450556n@googlegroups.com>,
> qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's not broken. It's behaving exactly as the real hardware does.
>> It can't find a boot device because you haven't selected a disk to boot.
>> add "-flop1 name_of_5.25_image" or "-flop3 name_of_3.5_image" or "-sl7
>> cffa202 -hard1 name_of_hdv_image" and you'll get a different result,
>> replacing "name_of_*_image" with the name of a disk image to boot.
>> Regarding an hdv image, may I suggest that you download this:
>> https://archive.org/details/TotalReplay
>
> I know how the real hardware behaves; I've been using it for 35 years. If
> you're at the sliding-apple screen on account of not having popped in a disk
> and you press Ctrl-Reset, a real IIGS (or most emulators) will drop you to a
> BASIC prompt. MAME doesn't do that. OA-Ctrl-Esc on a real IIGS (or most
> emulators) will take you to the CDA menu, through which you can get at the
> Control Palen. MAME doesn't do that, either. F12 is supposed to be mapped
> to Reset and the left Alt key to Open-Apple. The same keymapping is used by
> MAME's IIe emulation, and the Reset sequences work there as expected.
>
> _/_
> / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
> (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
> \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Yes, the MAME RESET-key situation for Apple IIgs emulation is the pits.
If you hit <Scroll Lock>, it will change the keyboard mode so that you
can then hit <Tab> and go fiddle with the key mappings. But you can do
that until you're blue in the face.
For instance, I set my RESET key to the 0 on the number pad and this is
what my MAME config (apple2gs.cfg) for a Rom 3 IIgs looks like:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- This file is autogenerated; comments and unknown tags will be stripped -->
<mameconfig version="10">
<system name="apple2gs">
<input>
<port tag=":keyb_special" type="KEYBOARD" mask="1" defvalue="0" value="1">
<newseq type="standard">
NONE
</newseq>
</port>
<port tag=":keyb_special" type="KEYBOARD" mask="128" defvalue="0">
<newseq type="standard">
KEYCODE_0PAD
</newseq>
</port>
</input>
<image_directories>
<device instance="floppydisk1" directory="/extra/apple2/disks" />
<device instance="floppydisk2" directory="/extra/apple2/disks" />
<device instance="floppydisk3" directory="/extra/apple2/disks" />
<device instance="floppydisk4" directory="/extra/apple2/disks" />
</image_directories>
</system>
</mameconfig>
Conversely, I have my Apple IIe enhanced configured to use the
Pause/Break key, and it works fine in MAME (I also have capslock and
left-control swapped):
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- This file is autogenerated; comments and unknown tags will be stripped -->
<mameconfig version="10">
<system name="apple2ee">
<input>
<port tag=":a2_config" type="CONFIG" mask="3" defvalue="0" value="1" />
<port tag=":keyb_special" type="KEYBOARD" mask="1" defvalue="1" value="0">
<newseq type="standard">
KEYCODE_LCONTROL
</newseq>
</port>
<port tag=":keyb_special" type="KEYBOARD" mask="8" defvalue="0">
<newseq type="standard">
KEYCODE_CAPSLOCK
</newseq>
</port>
<port tag=":keyb_special" type="KEYBOARD" mask="128" defvalue="0">
<newseq type="standard">
KEYCODE_PAUSE
</newseq>
</port>
</input>
<image_directories>
<device instance="floppydisk1" directory="/extra/apple2/disks/" />
<device instance="floppydisk2" directory="/home/games/mame/roms/apple2ee" />
<device instance="cassette" directory="/home/games/mame/roms/apple2ee" />
</image_directories>
</system>
</mameconfig>
I have not yet figured out how to make a IIgs (ROM 01 or 03) reset in
MAME.
I am running MAME 0.222, built from source from their git repo.
--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
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