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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394145 is a reply to message #394111] Tue, 27 June 2017 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wouter Valentijn is currently offline  Wouter Valentijn
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Registered: December 2012
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Senior Member
Op 27-6-2017 om 05:26 schreef Jim G.:
> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>> In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:25 PM:>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 10:08 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> > Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 06:25 PM:>
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:35 PM:>
>>>> >>>> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when
>>>> >>>>> this
>>>> >>>>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the
>>>> >>>>> older
>>>> >>>>> ship or the newer one.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks. My usual stops weren't committing in terms of saying
>>>> >>> which ship
>>>> >>> we were seeing. One can only hope that the crash test dummy
>>>> >>> design won't
>>>> >>> be present on Discovery.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As I recall, they used that model for the first STAR TREK film as
>>>> >> well.
>>>> >> The thing turned Kirk's girlfriend into THE FLY.
>>>> >
>>>> > Apparently I've done a really good job of blocking out whatever it is
>>>> > that you're referring to. Are you talking about the first J.J.
>>>> > movie or
>>>> > the TMP one way back when?
>>>>
>>>> STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE...way back when, very early in the film
>>>> when the transporter is frying people and Bones is trying to avoid
>>>> those
>>>> dangerous contraptions.
>>>
>>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>
>> https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>
>> Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>> *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>> Director's Edition.
>>
>> The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>> Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>> contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>
> Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
> my head.
>

Nope. It's really like that.

--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

"Be yourself no matter what they say"

Sting ("Englishman in New York")

liam=mail
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394146 is a reply to message #394068] Tue, 27 June 2017 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wouter Valentijn is currently offline  Wouter Valentijn
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Op 27-6-2017 om 00:33 schreef Lance Corporal Hammer Schultz:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>
>> If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain
>
> The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
> write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
> women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
> takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.
>

They did already had a female captain in Star Trek IV.
And Rachel Garrett in 'Yesterday's Enterprise'.

--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

"Be yourself no matter what they say"

Sting ("Englishman in New York")

liam=mail
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394152 is a reply to message #394143] Tue, 27 June 2017 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
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On 6/27/2017 10:39 AM, Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Op 27-6-2017 om 05:26 schreef BTR1701:
>> In article <oisfbl$h3g$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 8:24 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>
>>>> You're honestly the first person I've heard rate BEYOND any better than
>>>> 'worst of series, crime against humanity'
>>>>
>>>> Even the people that actually watched it felt that way.
>>>
>>> Nope. The second film (where Khan was featured) was the worst of the
>>> new trilogy. The third film, BEYOND, brought a good dose of humor that
>>> STAR TREK desperately needed to see again. Plus, they added Sofia
>>> Boutella...who I hope makes it back for film #4.
>>
>> She might be too wrapped up to do it...
>>
>
> Would all that binding really stop her?
>
I didn't watch the latest Mission Impossible movie, "MI: Mummy", but
from the TV ads I got the impression she didn't spend much time bound up.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394153 is a reply to message #394127] Tue, 27 June 2017 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wouter Valentijn is currently offline  Wouter Valentijn
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Op 27-6-2017 om 15:45 schreef The Last Doctor:
> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>>> liam@valentijn.nu wrote:
>>>> > Op 26-6-2017 om 19:46 schreef Ubiquitous:
>>>> >> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>>
>>>> >>> I wonder if the reason women are forbidden to command a starship in
>>>> >>> Krik's era has anything to do with the disaster that is brewing for
>>>> >>> this series.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Didn't we learn anything from Voyager?
>>>> >
>>>> > Voyager had issues orbiting issues. The gender of Janeway was not part
>>>> > of that. It was the writers. They failed.
>>>>
>>>> If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain
>>>
>>> The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
>>> write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
>>> women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
>>> takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.
>>
>> But that wasn't the point. the point is they made a big deal about finally
>> having a female Captain and she was a miserable failure, proving the point of
>> them not allowing female captains.
>>
>
> They'd had female captains before though - Uhura even had the conn of the
> Enterprise in a TAS episode. The captain of the Saratoga in STIV, the
> captain of the Enterprise C - even Troi managed not to make a total pigs
> ear of it the one time she got command. Alongside Voyager, Dax was known to
> command the Defiant...
>
> ...and of course, Janice Lester's outburst was then retconned away in
> Enterprise. If Earth ships in Archer's time could have female captains,
> surely the touchy-feely Federation
> that followed it wouldn't go backwards in this regard. We just didn't
> happen to see one onscreen in TOS, Lester was 17 bananas short of a bunch
> and Kirk was just humouring her.
>

Totally outside of official canon the web series Star Trek Continues had
an episode about this, guest starring Clare Kramer. The reason,
according to that story, was that the Tellarites were the problem within
the UFP. Being male chauvinist pigs. ;-)

--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

"Be yourself no matter what they say"

Sting ("Englishman in New York")

liam=mail
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394154 is a reply to message #394103] Tue, 27 June 2017 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wouter Valentijn is currently offline  Wouter Valentijn
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Op 27-6-2017 om 05:05 schreef J. Clarke:
> In article <oirnp9$dbh$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus@aol.com says...
>>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:13 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>
>>> You know, one of the differences in feel between TOS and both TNG and
>>> the 2009 re-boot is in how they address discipline and chain of command.
>>> TOS was written by people who had some idea of what the military was
>>> really like, many of them having served themselves. Yes, they bend
>>> things a bit for story purposes and the limits of filming a TV show, but
>>> their starting point was a working military. Characters stay at their
>>> posts.
>>
>> This is simply not true. The show illogically (for any real military)
>> had the leader, Kirk, always beaming down into unknown conditions. Many
>> of the rest of the bridge crew illogically beamed down frequently as
>> well. Outside of Spock and Uhura, none of those people should/would
>> have ever had a reason to have been bopping down to new planets on a
>> whim in any realistic 'military' show.
>
> He's the Captain. He gets to do stupid things if he wants to--nobody on the
> ship has the authority to stop him unless they want to go _way_ out on a
> limb and claim that he's disabled in some way.
>

How would Kirk have handled the TNG mindset of captains not being on an
away team aka landing party? He would not have been okay with it I think.

--
Wouter Valentijn www.j3v.net

"Be yourself no matter what they say"

Sting ("Englishman in New York")

liam=mail
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394155 is a reply to message #394153] Tue, 27 June 2017 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <59529e91$0$783$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:

> Op 27-6-2017 om 15:45 schreef The Last Doctor:
>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>>> > liam@valentijn.nu wrote:
>>>> >> Op 26-6-2017 om 19:46 schreef Ubiquitous:
>>>> >>> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>>>
>>>> >>>> I wonder if the reason women are forbidden to command a starship in
>>>> >>>> Krik's era has anything to do with the disaster that is brewing for
>>>> >>>> this series.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Didn't we learn anything from Voyager?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Voyager had issues orbiting issues. The gender of Janeway was not part
>>>> >> of that. It was the writers. They failed.
>>>> >
>>>> > If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain
>>>>
>>>> The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
>>>> write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
>>>> women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
>>>> takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.
>>>
>>> But that wasn't the point. the point is they made a big deal about finally
>>> having a female Captain and she was a miserable failure, proving the point
>>> of
>>> them not allowing female captains.
>>>
>>
>> They'd had female captains before though - Uhura even had the conn of the
>> Enterprise in a TAS episode. The captain of the Saratoga in STIV, the
>> captain of the Enterprise C - even Troi managed not to make a total pigs
>> ear of it the one time she got command. Alongside Voyager, Dax was known to
>> command the Defiant...
>>
>> ...and of course, Janice Lester's outburst was then retconned away in
>> Enterprise. If Earth ships in Archer's time could have female captains,
>> surely the touchy-feely Federation
>> that followed it wouldn't go backwards in this regard. We just didn't
>> happen to see one onscreen in TOS, Lester was 17 bananas short of a bunch
>> and Kirk was just humouring her.
>>
>
> Totally outside of official canon the web series Star Trek Continues had
> an episode about this, guest starring Clare Kramer.

As Glory!!!

--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394156 is a reply to message #394126] Tue, 27 June 2017 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Corporal Hammer is currently offline  Lance Corporal Hammer
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 09:15:28 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:

> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> liam@valentijn.nu wrote:
>>>> Op 26-6-2017 om 19:46 schreef Ubiquitous:
>>>> > starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>
>>>> >> I wonder if the reason women are forbidden to command a starship in
>>>> >> Krik's era has anything to do with the disaster that is brewing for
>>>> >> this series.
>>>> >
>>>> > Didn't we learn anything from Voyager?
>>>>
>>>> Voyager had issues orbiting issues. The gender of Janeway was not part
>>>> of that. It was the writers. They failed.
>>>
>>> If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain
>>
>> The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
>> write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
>> women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
>> takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.
>
> But that wasn't the point. the point is they made a big deal about finally
> having a female Captain and she was a miserable failure, proving the point of
> them not allowing female captains.

It was a fun bit of irony. And they made her an Admiral for it.

--
Hammer
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394157 is a reply to message #394146] Tue, 27 June 2017 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Corporal Hammer is currently offline  Lance Corporal Hammer
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:55:52 +0200, Wouter Valentijn wrote:

> Op 27-6-2017 om 00:33 schreef Lance Corporal Hammer Schultz:
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>
>>> If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain
>>
>> The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
>> write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
>> women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
>> takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.
>>
>
> They did already had a female captain in Star Trek IV.
> And Rachel Garrett in 'Yesterday's Enterprise'.

Yes, I took "first female captain" to refer to the televised drame
itself having a primary cast female captain, not the canon timeline.

--
Hammer
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394158 is a reply to message #394052] Tue, 27 June 2017 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Doc O'Leary

For your reference, records indicate that
Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com> wrote:

> Using a phaser that looks closer to STAR TREK (The Original Series)
> The complaints about the Klingon looks or the look of the transporters
> or the look of the phasers is right on par with the complaints about
> SUPERMAN's outfit being the wrong shade of blue or WONDER WOMAN's outfit
> not being flaggy enough.

I would disagree a bit with that, and even then only from a continuity
perspective. It *would* be fair comment if a *single* representation
of S or WW had their costume change without explanation. And it would
be *very* wrong to suddenly replace the person themselves with a
blonde (or give them head ridges :-). Unless it’s a reboot, you do
*not* get to exercise your “creativity” in those sorts of aspects of
the universe.

> Were you guys sitting around the water cooler back in the 80s griping
> about how much the new BUCK ROGERS TV series sucked because the ships no
> longer swung back and forth on pieces of fishing line like they were
> supposed too? ...and they failed to have cigarette smoke wafting
> randomly out of the back like was coda?

Well we’re sure as hell not going to complain about Wilma Deering’s
outfits! :-) But seriously, you have to make a distinction between
what is a surface difference and what is being changed in an
established story line for the wrong reasons. If they didn’t want to
do “Prime” Trek, they should have created yet another timeline, or not
made it a Trek property at all. Simple as that.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394159 is a reply to message #394115] Tue, 27 June 2017 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
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anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 10:52 PM:
> In article <oisj1b$q0a$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>
>>> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>
>> Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>
> It ain't in the movie (they built the sets but never shot her scenes,
> although the actress is credited) but it made it to the novelization.

Ah, thanks. I was worried that I'd suffered some head trauma recently.
Or caffeine withdrawal. Or both. :)

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394160 is a reply to message #394026] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Doc O'Leary

For your reference, records indicate that
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> J J Abrams basically stood over the dying body of 'Star Trek' telling
> fans "Hey, look at me, I'm so popular that I can do whatever I want to
> your beloved show!" while he gave fans the finger with one hand and
> masturbated with the other.

I’m not so sure that was the message to the fans, or just to Paramount
(or whoever it is that owns Trek these days). It *was* a dying
franchise, by my measure due in large part to them cranking out crap
after TNG went off the air. They *did* need a change of pace, and
unfortunately they did it by chasing after the “action movie” audience.
My hope is always that a new TV series would be able to have the depth
needed to really re-establish the franchise with the types of fans
older Trek attracted, but Discovery seems to be along the same lines as
the other newer Trek series, being terrible and thinking they can get
away with it just because it’s *said* to be set in the Trek universe.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394161 is a reply to message #394116] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
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anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 11:29 PM:
> In article <oisj1o$q0a$2@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>>> In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>>
>>> Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>>> *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>>> Director's Edition.
>>>
>>> The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>>> Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>>> contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>>
>> Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
>> my head.
>
> LOL, no, seriously. It's all in the book. They cast Lori*, she's
> credited, they built the sets, AFAIK they never cast Nogura (which makes
> no sense as his scenes are supposed to have been decimated literally the
> night before). Basically it goes like this:
>
> Kirk and Sonak on the escalator, Kirk says he's headed for a meeting
> with Nogura
>
> Kirk meets Nogura, stands up to him, gets the Enterprise back (cut)
>
> Lori tries to waylay Kirk outside Nogura's office, brings up the year
> they spent together, Kirk calls her Nogura's staff whore (cut)
>
> Kirk beams to the space office complex. The next time we see Lori
> she's in the transporter, beaming aboard the Enterprise for reasons
> unknown.
>
>
> *Susan O'Sullivan ... Woman (as Susan J. Sullivan)
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0642817
>
> (No, it's not the Susan Sullivan from Falcon Crest or Castle, but she'd
> have been excellent)
>
> Susan O'Sullivan is an actress, known for Star Trek: The Motion Picture
> (1979), Our Man Flint: Dead on Target (1976) and Desperate Rescue: The
> Cathy Mahone Story (1993).
>
> I've never been able to find a good face photo that's supposed to be her
> that's absolutely certainly her.
>
> Maybe I'll see if can't pull up COVER UP or something and do a screen
> grab.

Interesting stuff. And, as someone who's read none of the books, all new
to me. Thanks!

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394164 is a reply to message #394124] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
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Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>
>
> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>
>>> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>
>> Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>
> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.

Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.

>>> In this case, she wasn't melded with a fly, but rather with the person
>>> in the adjacent transporter spot.
>>
>> I knew that the young Vulcan destined to never take Spock's place was
>> one of the victims (since Decker had to pull double-duty until Spock
>> showed up), but when did they tell us that the other victim was the love
>> of Kirk's life? And why didn't he react more strongly if that was the
>> case?
>
> The extended scene of Kirk walking around the ship in a daze after the
> transporter accident was supposed to be all about him processing the
> loss of his love.

So the movie would have dealt with two of Kirk's conquests? Shatner must
have loved that. :)

> Maybe the director decided that it still had that
> dramatic effect (showing that Kirk felt intense loss at the death of a
> crew member) without identifying the loss as something personal to Kirk
> (which could diminish the idea that he feels for every member of the
> crew or could make him look callous for recovering in just a few minutes
> and getting back to work after the loss of his significant other)?

All I know is that I was very disappointed with that first effort. Very
disappointed. Lots of things and people to point fingers at, including a
rusty cast that was years removed from working together as actors. And
it showed. In the end, it's why I've always been such a fan of Nicholas
Meyer for his work as director and uncredited screenwriter on II. For my
money, and despite II's own flaws, he saved Trek.

>> All this time I've just assumed that it was some generic person
>> who was also destined to never serve on the Enterprise...
>
> The final cut of the film dropped the ball in that regard.

Interesting stuff.

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394165 is a reply to message #394145] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
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Wouter Valentijn sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 12:48 PM:
> Op 27-6-2017 om 05:26 schreef Jim G.:
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>>> In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>>
>>> Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>>> *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>>> Director's Edition.
>>>
>>> The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>>> Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>>> contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>>
>> Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
>> my head.
>>
>
> Nope. It's really like that.

So I've learned. Frankly, it's probably a good thing since the
alternative would have been a bit much on the Kirk-as-Romeo front. In
any case, I now know that Ruth wasn't the love of Kirk's life after all.
Unless the love of his life changed from year to year. :)

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394166 is a reply to message #394164] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>>
>>>> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>
>>> Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>
>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>
> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.

CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394167 is a reply to message #394161] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <oiudnk$kev$2@dont-email.me>,
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 11:29 PM:
>> In article <oisj1o$q0a$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>>>> In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>>>
>>>> Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>>>> *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>>>> Director's Edition.
>>>>
>>>> The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>>>> Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>>>> contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>>>
>>> Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
>>> my head.
>>
>> LOL, no, seriously. It's all in the book. They cast Lori*, she's
>> credited, they built the sets, AFAIK they never cast Nogura (which makes
>> no sense as his scenes are supposed to have been decimated literally the
>> night before). Basically it goes like this:
>>
>> Kirk and Sonak on the escalator, Kirk says he's headed for a meeting
>> with Nogura
>>
>> Kirk meets Nogura, stands up to him, gets the Enterprise back (cut)
>>
>> Lori tries to waylay Kirk outside Nogura's office, brings up the year
>> they spent together, Kirk calls her Nogura's staff whore (cut)
>>
>> Kirk beams to the space office complex. The next time we see Lori
>> she's in the transporter, beaming aboard the Enterprise for reasons
>> unknown.
>>
>>
>> *Susan O'Sullivan ... Woman (as Susan J. Sullivan)
>> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0642817
>>
>> (No, it's not the Susan Sullivan from Falcon Crest or Castle, but she'd
>> have been excellent)
>>
>> Susan O'Sullivan is an actress, known for Star Trek: The Motion Picture
>> (1979), Our Man Flint: Dead on Target (1976) and Desperate Rescue: The
>> Cathy Mahone Story (1993).
>>
>> I've never been able to find a good face photo that's supposed to be her
>> that's absolutely certainly her.
>>
>> Maybe I'll see if can't pull up COVER UP or something and do a screen
>> grab.
>
> Interesting stuff. And, as someone who's read none of the books, all new
> to me. Thanks!

:)

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Trek Fashion (Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics) [message #394168 is a reply to message #394053] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Doc O'Leary

For your reference, records indicate that
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> I read that this particular batch of idiots even sent someone to
> Sweden or some such place to research fabric materials for the uniforms.
> You can't make this stuff up.

The issue I would take with that is that, despite there being a *lot*
of wardrobe changes over the years (and even just in TOS if you look
at how Shatner’s vanity had him in at least half a dozen different
shirts), I have never heard of any reasonable in-universe explanation
why Star Fleet keeps deciding to re-tailor their standard uniforms so
often. If there were ever a topic in the Star Trek universe to bring
in . . . . stereotypical token “diversity”, that would be it. Tell
*that* story; it’d be a fun watch!

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394169 is a reply to message #394166] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam H. Kerman is currently offline  Adam H. Kerman
Messages: 17
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> > On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >
>>>> > The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>
>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>
>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>
> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"

I love scale modeling. Do any big production budget movies do that
any more?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394170 is a reply to message #394141] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A Friend

In article <anim8rfsk-D5F3B7.09110427062017@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> In article <270620171119107365%nope@noway.com>,
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <erf5s9FssumU1@mid.individual.net>, The Last Doctor
>> <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>>> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>>> >> liam@valentijn.nu wrote:
>>>> >>> Op 26-6-2017 om 19:46 schreef Ubiquitous:
>>>> >>>> starfist@gmail.invalid wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I wonder if the reason women are forbidden to command a starship in
>>>> >>>>> Krik's era has anything to do with the disaster that is brewing for
>>>> >>>>> this series.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Didn't we learn anything from Voyager?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Voyager had issues orbiting issues. The gender of Janeway was not
>>>> >>> part
>>>> >>> of that. It was the writers. They failed.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain
>>>> >
>>>> > The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
>>>> > write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
>>>> > women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
>>>> > takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.
>>>>
>>>> But that wasn't the point. the point is they made a big deal about
>>>> finally
>>>> having a female Captain and she was a miserable failure, proving the
>>>> point
>>>> of
>>>> them not allowing female captains.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They'd had female captains before though - Uhura even had the conn of the
>>> Enterprise in a TAS episode. The captain of the Saratoga in STIV, the
>>> captain of the Enterprise C - even Troi managed not to make a total pigs
>>> ear of it the one time she got command. Alongside Voyager, Dax was known
>>> to
>>> command the Defiant...
>>>
>>> ...and of course, Janice Lester's outburst was then retconned away in
>>> Enterprise. If Earth ships in Archer's time could have female
>>> captains, surely the touchy-feely Federation that followed it
>>> wouldn't go backwards in this regard.
>>
>>
>> Why not? Archer's Enterprise (and Hernandez's Columbia) were
>
> constructs in a badly plotted and researched holonovel.


"Never give up! Never surrender!"
Re: Trek Fashion (Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics) [message #394171 is a reply to message #394168] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A Friend

In article <oiuf5l$5t2$4@dont-email.me>, Doc O'Leary
<droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:

> For your reference, records indicate that
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I read that this particular batch of idiots even sent someone to
>> Sweden or some such place to research fabric materials for the uniforms.
>> You can't make this stuff up.
>
> The issue I would take with that is that, despite there being a *lot*
> of wardrobe changes over the years (and even just in TOS if you look
> at how Shatner’s vanity had him in at least half a dozen different
> shirts), I have never heard of any reasonable in-universe explanation
> why Star Fleet keeps deciding to re-tailor their standard uniforms so
> often. If there were ever a topic in the Star Trek universe to bring
> in . . . . stereotypical token “diversity”, that would be it. Tell
> *that* story; it’d be a fun watch!


My own handwaving about that revolves around some psychologist at
Starfleet believing that changing the outfits as often as they did kept
morale up on long voyages. Since Trek people can produce whatever they
want in any quantity, coming up with new uniforms every so often
wouldn't be much of a problem. Maybe they even had Uniform of the
Month contests.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394172 is a reply to message #394040] Tue, 27 June 2017 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Doc O'Leary

For your reference, records indicate that
Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com> wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 3:30 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oiriqi$qk0$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you are going to rag on the show as being incompetent for changing
>>> the look of 'known things', how do you resolve the changes within the
>>> original cast era (such as the Klingon's face/head)?
>>
>> They explained that.
>
> Yep...with hand-wavium silliness that negated the simple reality that
> the Trek film modified the look of the Klingons because the original
> look was too simplistic and lame for a film.

And yet the Vulcans got a pass. Aren’t all of us humanoids supposed to
be closely related in Trek anyway? Seems kind of racist that there
hasn't been a lot more interbreeding . . .

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394173 is a reply to message #394158] Tue, 27 June 2017 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/27/2017 12:51 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Using a phaser that looks closer to STAR TREK (The Original Series)
>> The complaints about the Klingon looks or the look of the transporters
>> or the look of the phasers is right on par with the complaints about
>> SUPERMAN's outfit being the wrong shade of blue or WONDER WOMAN's outfit
>> not being flaggy enough.
>
> I would disagree a bit with that, and even then only from a continuity
> perspective. It *would* be fair comment if a *single* representation
> of S or WW had their costume change without explanation. And it would
> be *very* wrong to suddenly replace the person themselves with a
> blonde (or give them head ridges :-). Unless it’s a reboot, you do
> *not* get to exercise your “creativity” in those sorts of aspects of
> the universe.
>
>> Were you guys sitting around the water cooler back in the 80s griping
>> about how much the new BUCK ROGERS TV series sucked because the ships no
>> longer swung back and forth on pieces of fishing line like they were
>> supposed too? ...and they failed to have cigarette smoke wafting
>> randomly out of the back like was coda?
>
> Well we’re sure as hell not going to complain about Wilma Deering’s
> outfits! :-) But seriously, you have to make a distinction between
> what is a surface difference and what is being changed in an
> established story line for the wrong reasons. If they didn’t want to
> do “Prime” Trek, they should have created yet another timeline, or not
> made it a Trek property at all. Simple as that.
>
The problem is they DID start a new timeline. And in the process said
"this is the only Trek now, we have destroyed the timeline of the prior
serieses and movies."

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394178 is a reply to message #394166] Tue, 27 June 2017 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/27/2017 1:31 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> > On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >
>>>> > The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>
>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>
>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>
> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"
>
What? Synthesizer music doesn't count as CGI?

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394179 is a reply to message #394160] Tue, 27 June 2017 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/27/2017 1:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> J J Abrams basically stood over the dying body of 'Star Trek' telling
>> fans "Hey, look at me, I'm so popular that I can do whatever I want to
>> your beloved show!" while he gave fans the finger with one hand and
>> masturbated with the other.
>
> I’m not so sure that was the message to the fans, or just to Paramount
> (or whoever it is that owns Trek these days).

He didn't dare aim any of that at Paramount, they were the ones paying
him and would have canned his ass so fast the Earth would have rotated
backwards.

(Oops, wrong movie. ;) )

> It *was* a dying
> franchise, by my measure due in large part to them cranking out crap
> after TNG went off the air. They *did* need a change of pace, and
> unfortunately they did it by chasing after the “action movie” audience.
> My hope is always that a new TV series would be able to have the depth
> needed to really re-establish the franchise with the types of fans
> older Trek attracted, but Discovery seems to be along the same lines as
> the other newer Trek series, being terrible and thinking they can get
> away with it just because it’s *said* to be set in the Trek universe.
>


--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394180 is a reply to message #394161] Tue, 27 June 2017 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/27/2017 1:07 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 11:29 PM:
>> In article <oisj1o$q0a$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>>>> In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>>>
>>>> Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>>>> *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>>>> Director's Edition.
>>>>
>>>> The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>>>> Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>>>> contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>>>
>>> Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
>>> my head.
>>
>> LOL, no, seriously. It's all in the book. They cast Lori*, she's
>> credited, they built the sets, AFAIK they never cast Nogura (which makes
>> no sense as his scenes are supposed to have been decimated literally the
>> night before). Basically it goes like this:
>>
>> Kirk and Sonak on the escalator, Kirk says he's headed for a meeting
>> with Nogura
>>
>> Kirk meets Nogura, stands up to him, gets the Enterprise back (cut)
>>
>> Lori tries to waylay Kirk outside Nogura's office, brings up the year
>> they spent together, Kirk calls her Nogura's staff whore (cut)
>>
>> Kirk beams to the space office complex. The next time we see Lori
>> she's in the transporter, beaming aboard the Enterprise for reasons
>> unknown.
>>
>>
>> *Susan O'Sullivan ... Woman (as Susan J. Sullivan)
>> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0642817
>>
>> (No, it's not the Susan Sullivan from Falcon Crest or Castle, but she'd
>> have been excellent)
>>
>> Susan O'Sullivan is an actress, known for Star Trek: The Motion Picture
>> (1979), Our Man Flint: Dead on Target (1976) and Desperate Rescue: The
>> Cathy Mahone Story (1993).
>>
>> I've never been able to find a good face photo that's supposed to be her
>> that's absolutely certainly her.
>>
>> Maybe I'll see if can't pull up COVER UP or something and do a screen
>> grab.
>
> Interesting stuff. And, as someone who's read none of the books, all new
> to me. Thanks!
>
Star Trek novelizations have a history of authors adding shit from nowhere.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394181 is a reply to message #394178] Tue, 27 June 2017 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A Friend

In article <oiujl6$7gb$3@dont-email.me>, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 6/27/2017 1:31 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> > Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>> >
>>>> > Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>>
>>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>>
>>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>>
>> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"
>>
> What? Synthesizer music doesn't count as CGI?


It might, but only if you're synesthesic.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394182 is a reply to message #394180] Tue, 27 June 2017 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Corporal Hammer is currently offline  Lance Corporal Hammer
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:53:27 -0700, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

> Star Trek novelizations have a history of authors adding shit from nowhere.

The Motion Picture wasn't novelized by some random author foreign to
the Trek universe...

--
Hammer
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394183 is a reply to message #394182] Tue, 27 June 2017 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/27/2017 3:11 PM, Lance Corporal Hammer Schultz wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:53:27 -0700, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> Star Trek novelizations have a history of authors adding shit from nowhere.
>
> The Motion Picture wasn't novelized by some random author foreign to
> the Trek universe...
>
That's never made a difference.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394184 is a reply to message #394154] Tue, 27 June 2017 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

In article <59529f7e$0$832$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, liam@valentijn.nu
says...
>
> Op 27-6-2017 om 05:05 schreef J. Clarke:
>> In article <oirnp9$dbh$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus@aol.com says...
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 3:13 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know, one of the differences in feel between TOS and both TNG and
>>>> the 2009 re-boot is in how they address discipline and chain of command.
>>>> TOS was written by people who had some idea of what the military was
>>>> really like, many of them having served themselves. Yes, they bend
>>>> things a bit for story purposes and the limits of filming a TV show, but
>>>> their starting point was a working military. Characters stay at their
>>>> posts.
>>>
>>> This is simply not true. The show illogically (for any real military)
>>> had the leader, Kirk, always beaming down into unknown conditions. Many
>>> of the rest of the bridge crew illogically beamed down frequently as
>>> well. Outside of Spock and Uhura, none of those people should/would
>>> have ever had a reason to have been bopping down to new planets on a
>>> whim in any realistic 'military' show.
>>
>> He's the Captain. He gets to do stupid things if he wants to--nobody on the
>> ship has the authority to stop him unless they want to go _way_ out on a
>> limb and claim that he's disabled in some way.
>>
>
> How would Kirk have handled the TNG mindset of captains not being on an
> away team aka landing party? He would not have been okay with it I think.

I suspect not.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394185 is a reply to message #394169] Tue, 27 June 2017 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <oiufem$o1k$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> > Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's
>>>> >> life.
>>>> >
>>>> > Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>>
>>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>>
>>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>>
>> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"
>
> I love scale modeling. Do any big production budget movies do that
> any more?

When they have to. SERENITY had to crash a real model of their Firefly
class ship 'cause their CGI wasn't closes to up to it.

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Re: Trek Fashion (Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics) [message #394186 is a reply to message #394171] Tue, 27 June 2017 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <270620171648414080%nope@noway.com>,
A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

> In article <oiuf5l$5t2$4@dont-email.me>, Doc O'Leary
> <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>
>> For your reference, records indicate that
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I read that this particular batch of idiots even sent someone to
>>> Sweden or some such place to research fabric materials for the uniforms.
>>> You can't make this stuff up.
>>
>> The issue I would take with that is that, despite there being a *lot*
>> of wardrobe changes over the years (and even just in TOS if you look
>> at how Shatner’s vanity had him in at least half a dozen different
>> shirts), I have never heard of any reasonable in-universe explanation
>> why Star Fleet keeps deciding to re-tailor their standard uniforms so
>> often. If there were ever a topic in the Star Trek universe to bring
>> in . . . . stereotypical token “diversity”, that would be it. Tell
>> *that* story; it’d be a fun watch!
>
>
> My own handwaving about that revolves around some psychologist at
> Starfleet believing that changing the outfits as often as they did kept
> morale up on long voyages. Since Trek people can produce whatever they
> want in any quantity, coming up with new uniforms every so often
> wouldn't be much of a problem. Maybe they even had Uniform of the
> Month contests.

That's a good point, at least post TOS. Once you replicate new uniforms
instead of laundering them, all they have to do is send out a line of
code ...

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394187 is a reply to message #394172] Tue, 27 June 2017 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oiugif$5t2$5@dont-email.me>,
Doc O'Leary <droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:

> For your reference, records indicate that
> Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:30 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <oiriqi$qk0$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you are going to rag on the show as being incompetent for changing
>>>> the look of 'known things', how do you resolve the changes within the
>>>> original cast era (such as the Klingon's face/head)?
>>>
>>> They explained that.
>>
>> Yep...with hand-wavium silliness that negated the simple reality that
>> the Trek film modified the look of the Klingons because the original
>> look was too simplistic and lame for a film.
>
> And yet the Vulcans got a pass. Aren’t all of us humanoids supposed to
> be closely related in Trek anyway? Seems kind of racist that there
> hasn't been a lot more interbreeding . . .

But the Romulans got bumpy foreheads, even though nobody can tell them
from the Vulcans ...

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394191 is a reply to message #394178] Tue, 27 June 2017 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oiujl6$7gb$3@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 6/27/2017 1:31 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> > Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>> >
>>>> > Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>>
>>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>>
>>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>>
>> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"
>>
> What? Synthesizer music doesn't count as CGI?

hee hee

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394192 is a reply to message #394180] Tue, 27 June 2017 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oiujtl$7gb$5@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 6/27/2017 1:07 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 11:29 PM:
>>> In article <oisj1o$q0a$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>>>> > In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >
>>>> > https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>>> >
>>>> > Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>>>> > *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>>>> > Director's Edition.
>>>> >
>>>> > The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>>>> > Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>>>> > contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
>>>> my head.
>>>
>>> LOL, no, seriously. It's all in the book. They cast Lori*, she's
>>> credited, they built the sets, AFAIK they never cast Nogura (which makes
>>> no sense as his scenes are supposed to have been decimated literally the
>>> night before). Basically it goes like this:
>>>
>>> Kirk and Sonak on the escalator, Kirk says he's headed for a meeting
>>> with Nogura
>>>
>>> Kirk meets Nogura, stands up to him, gets the Enterprise back (cut)
>>>
>>> Lori tries to waylay Kirk outside Nogura's office, brings up the year
>>> they spent together, Kirk calls her Nogura's staff whore (cut)
>>>
>>> Kirk beams to the space office complex. The next time we see Lori
>>> she's in the transporter, beaming aboard the Enterprise for reasons
>>> unknown.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Susan O'Sullivan ... Woman (as Susan J. Sullivan)
>>> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0642817
>>>
>>> (No, it's not the Susan Sullivan from Falcon Crest or Castle, but she'd
>>> have been excellent)
>>>
>>> Susan O'Sullivan is an actress, known for Star Trek: The Motion Picture
>>> (1979), Our Man Flint: Dead on Target (1976) and Desperate Rescue: The
>>> Cathy Mahone Story (1993).
>>>
>>> I've never been able to find a good face photo that's supposed to be her
>>> that's absolutely certainly her.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'll see if can't pull up COVER UP or something and do a screen
>>> grab.
>>
>> Interesting stuff. And, as someone who's read none of the books, all new
>> to me. Thanks!
>>
> Star Trek novelizations have a history of authors adding shit from nowhere.

Well, um, this is from the script, and by Roddenberry.

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Re: Trek Fashion (Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics) [message #394193 is a reply to message #394168] Tue, 27 June 2017 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
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Doc O'Leary sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 03:28 PM:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I read that this particular batch of idiots even sent someone to
>> Sweden or some such place to research fabric materials for the uniforms.
>> You can't make this stuff up.
>
> The issue I would take with that is that, despite there being a *lot*
> of wardrobe changes over the years (and even just in TOS if you look
> at how Shatner’s vanity had him in at least half a dozen different
> shirts), I have never heard of any reasonable in-universe explanation
> why Star Fleet keeps deciding to re-tailor their standard uniforms so
> often. If there were ever a topic in the Star Trek universe to bring
> in . . . . stereotypical token “diversity”, that would be it. Tell
> *that* story; it’d be a fun watch!

If our military today was swarming with costume designers, we'd probably
be seeing new Navy and Army looks every other week.

The Air Farce would be switching things up every three to five days.

And the Marines would look at the costume designers and say, "Get the
f%#$ away from us."

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“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394194 is a reply to message #394166] Tue, 27 June 2017 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
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anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 03:31 PM:
> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> > On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >
>>>> > The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>
>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>
>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>
> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"

Fair enough. I knew that they used models (often recycled), but I also
thought that there was some early computer work connected to some of the
V-ger effects and nebula stuff.

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“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394195 is a reply to message #394137] Tue, 27 June 2017 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2012
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Member
On 6/27/2017 11:37 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <oithbv$f9r$2@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 11:51 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <atropos-8CFE78.20252026062017@news.giganews.com>,
>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <oish21$lfc$2@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:25 PM:>
>>>> >>> On 6/26/2017 10:08 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 06:25 PM:>
>>>> >>>>> On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:35 PM:>
>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when
>>>> >>>>>>>> this
>>>> >>>>>>>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the
>>>> >>>>>>>> older
>>>> >>>>>>>> ship or the newer one.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. My usual stops weren't committing in terms of saying which
>>>> >>>>>> ship
>>>> >>>>>> we were seeing. One can only hope that the crash test dummy design
>>>> >>>>>> won't
>>>> >>>>>> be present on Discovery.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> As I recall, they used that model for the first STAR TREK film as
>>>> >>>>> well.
>>>> >>>>> The thing turned Kirk's girlfriend into THE FLY.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Apparently I've done a really good job of blocking out whatever it is
>>>> >>>> that you're referring to. Are you talking about the first J.J. movie
>>>> >>>> or
>>>> >>>> the TMP one way back when?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE...way back when, very early in the film
>>>> >>> when the transporter is frying people and Bones is trying to avoid
>>>> >>> those
>>>> >>> dangerous contraptions.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >
>>>> > The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>> > In this case, she wasn't melded with a fly, but rather with the person
>>>> > in the adjacent transporter spot.
>>>>
>>>> I thought Carol Marcus was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>
>>> Retcon
>>
>> She wasn't the love of his life, though. She was just a baby momma from
>> a long time prior...a woman who with whom the relationship was willingly
>> given up (mutual decision).
>
> It wasn't mutual, she was just a bitch.

Fair enough...but she certainly wasn't the love of his life. You do
have to wonder why the writing was ever set up in those early films to
shoehorn in a long term love interest for him...rather than just letting
him screw his way across the galaxy like he did in the TV series.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394196 is a reply to message #394139] Tue, 27 June 2017 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
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On 6/27/2017 11:50 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 6/26/2017 10:24 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oisor7$7qu$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 9:29 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <oisj1o$q0a$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:55 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oisgh3$k9c$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:25 PM:>
>>>> >>>> On 6/26/2017 10:08 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 06:25 PM:>
>>>> >>>>>> On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:35 PM:>
>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw
>>>> >>>>>>>>> when
>>>> >>>>>>>>> this
>>>> >>>>>>>>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was
>>>> >>>>>>>>> of the
>>>> >>>>>>>>> older
>>>> >>>>>>>>> ship or the newer one.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. My usual stops weren't committing in terms of saying
>>>> >>>>>>> which
>>>> >>>>>>> ship
>>>> >>>>>>> we were seeing. One can only hope that the crash test dummy
>>>> >>>>>>> design
>>>> >>>>>>> won't
>>>> >>>>>>> be present on Discovery.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> As I recall, they used that model for the first STAR TREK film as
>>>> >>>>>> well.
>>>> >>>>>> The thing turned Kirk's girlfriend into THE FLY.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Apparently I've done a really good job of blocking out whatever
>>>> >>>>> it is
>>>> >>>>> that you're referring to. Are you talking about the first J.J.
>>>> >>>>> movie
>>>> >>>>> or
>>>> >>>>> the TMP one way back when?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE...way back when, very early in the
>>>> >>>> film
>>>> >>>> when the transporter is frying people and Bones is trying to avoid
>>>> >>>> those
>>>> >>>> dangerous contraptions.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://youtu.be/Ro_QpDJX-Sk
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Anybody who thinks Robert Wise was a good director should listen to
>>>> >> *any* line read in this. I got them to drop 'oh my God' from the
>>>> >> Director's Edition.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The woman in the transporter is Vicd Admiral Lori Ciana, Admiral
>>>> >> Nogura's staff whore, that he had enter a standard one year marriage
>>>> >> contract with Kirk to distract him from regaining the Enterprise.
>>>> >
>>>> > Okay, now I'm thinking that you and Obveeus are both just messing with
>>>> > my head.
>>>>
>>>> LOL, no, seriously. It's all in the book. They cast Lori*, she's
>>>> credited, they built the sets, AFAIK they never cast Nogura (which
>>>> makes
>>>> no sense as his scenes are supposed to have been decimated literally
>>>> the
>>>> night before). Basically it goes like this:
>>>>
>>>> Kirk and Sonak on the escalator, Kirk says he's headed for a meeting
>>>> with Nogura
>>>>
>>>> Kirk meets Nogura, stands up to him, gets the Enterprise back (cut)
>>>>
>>>> Lori tries to waylay Kirk outside Nogura's office, brings up the year
>>>> they spent together, Kirk calls her Nogura's staff whore (cut)
>>>>
>>> Well that hardly sounds like someone talking to the "love of their
>>> life".
>>
>> Did somebody refer to her that way?
>>
> Yes.


They were together romantically in a long term ongoing relationship when
she got FLY-ed.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394197 is a reply to message #394143] Tue, 27 June 2017 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
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On 6/27/2017 1:39 PM, Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Op 27-6-2017 om 05:26 schreef BTR1701:
>> In article <oisfbl$h3g$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 8:24 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>
>>>> You're honestly the first person I've heard rate BEYOND any better than
>>>> 'worst of series, crime against humanity'
>>>>
>>>> Even the people that actually watched it felt that way.
>>>
>>> Nope. The second film (where Khan was featured) was the worst of the
>>> new trilogy. The third film, BEYOND, brought a good dose of humor that
>>> STAR TREK desperately needed to see again. Plus, they added Sofia
>>> Boutella...who I hope makes it back for film #4.
>>
>> She might be too wrapped up to do it...
>>
>
> Would all that binding really stop her?

She is also in ATOMIC BLONDE...coming out in a couple weeks.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394198 is a reply to message #394194] Tue, 27 June 2017 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 210
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Senior Member
In article <oiuslr$1uc$2@dont-email.me>,
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 03:31 PM:
>> In article <oiudpt$kev$3@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/27/2017 at 06:58 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 11:26 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> > Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 09:52 PM:>
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 10:43 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm still not getting the girlfriend/THE FLY reference...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The woman who got melded in the transporter was the love of Kirk's life.
>>>> >
>>>> > Seriously? I never knew that, and I've seen the movie many times.
>>>>
>>>> For whatever reason, the plot point never made it into the film.
>>>
>>> Weird. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there was a problem with the
>>> admiral actor or the admiral actress or both. I mean, if it was a time
>>> issue, it's not as if they couldn't have shaved a bit of the pretty CGI
>>> overkill (and pace-killing) stuff that bogged down the whole movie.
>>
>> CGI? In TMP?? "Sorry, neither"
>
> Fair enough. I knew that they used models (often recycled), but I also
> thought that there was some early computer work connected to some of the
> V-ger effects and nebula stuff.

Maybe in that awful wormhole sequence that was done by the guys they
fired.

The Genesis Planet simulation in Star Trek The Wrath of Khan is widely
considered the first CGI sequence in motion pictures.

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