| ProDOS port discussion [message #391942] |
Fri, 13 March 2020 17:55  |
qkumba
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New thread for the general conversations.
I'm trying to keep the announce thread clean. :-)
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392626 is a reply to message #391942] |
Wed, 01 April 2020 12:32  |
Jeff Ramsey
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On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 2:55:28 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
> New thread for the general conversations.
> I'm trying to keep the announce thread clean. :-)
Thanks for getting Maniac Mansion! This one is one that I asked you to add to your list! (and maybe some others had already asked.)
One of these days I will play it all the way through...
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392628 is a reply to message #392627] |
Wed, 01 April 2020 12:42 |
Jeff Ramsey
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On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 9:34:57 AM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
> Yes, I added it to my list after you asked, but it has been requested more since then.
Was it a challenge in any way? IIRC, it was not a DOS3.3 environment but rather some sort of alternative DOS.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392647 is a reply to message #392628] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 00:19 |
qkumba
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No problem. I have my ProRWTS2 code which just needs a few switches set to do most of the right thing automatically. Then just a bit of support code to handle the disk-switching.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392654 is a reply to message #391942] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 12:02 |
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Originally posted by: B T
On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 5:55:28 PM UTC-4, qkumba wrote:
> New thread for the general conversations.
> I'm trying to keep the announce thread clean. :-)
Into the Eagle's nest. Is this IIGS only?
Thanks.
BT
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392655 is a reply to message #392654] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 12:10 |
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Originally posted by: B T
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 12:02:59 PM UTC-4, B T wrote:
> On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 5:55:28 PM UTC-4, qkumba wrote:
>> New thread for the general conversations.
>> I'm trying to keep the announce thread clean. :-)
>
> Into the Eagle's nest. Is this IIGS only?
> Thanks.
> BT
I just answered my own question, it is Apple IIe compatible.
The reason for my questions was that the 800k image would not mount under Apple-win like other 800k images. I tried again and it worked, so just something I was doing incorrectly!
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392656 is a reply to message #392655] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 12:34 |
qkumba
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Great. All of my ProDOS port so far run on the IIe.
I have only one IIGS-specific port-request so far (Alien Mind).
Everything else on my list is for the IIe.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392662 is a reply to message #392656] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 19:34 |
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Originally posted by: Todd Holcomb
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 11:35:02 AM UTC-5, qkumba wrote:
> Great. All of my ProDOS port so far run on the IIe.
> I have only one IIGS-specific port-request so far (Alien Mind).
> Everything else on my list is for the IIe.
I had no idea that we could request IIgs ports too. Alien Mind would be awesome! I'd also like to see Superstar Ice Hockey and Mean18 be able to run from a HD. I imagine that Alex Lee will have some requests as well...
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392663 is a reply to message #392656] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 20:30 |
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Originally posted by: fadden
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 9:35:02 AM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
> I have only one IIGS-specific port-request so far (Alien Mind).
ISTR most IIgs stuff being more or less ProDOS format already, requiring some fiddling to either remove a disk check or run on a hard drive. Some of the big ones (like Dungeon Master) already have HD-install patches.
Alien Mind was one of the few that did something different. I poked around for a bit but couldn't find another example.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392664 is a reply to message #392663] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 20:58 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
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On the IIgs, titles that played with the disk format:
- Tomahawk (game)
- Alien Mind (game)
- The hunt for Red October (game)
- (more or less) Dungeon Master (game, a std format using the extra 12 nibbles among other fun things)
- Splash (early 87 demo)
- ANSI something (a early AU utility)
Other titles are either using off-disk protections (password protection), or on-disk protections (bad block for some, HLS track length for A LOT of titles)
Antoine
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392669 is a reply to message #392665] |
Thu, 02 April 2020 21:46 |
Steve Nickolas
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Registered: October 2012
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On Thu, 2 Apr 2020, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> There are also a few titles that were differently protected (Task force,
> Rastan) but I think I have mentioned all of them :-)
>
> Antoine
>
Well, consider who did the Rastan port and it makes sense... xD
-uso.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392685 is a reply to message #391942] |
Fri, 03 April 2020 09:57 |
mverpelli
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Registered: May 2013
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On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 10:55:28 PM UTC+1, qkumba wrote:
> New thread for the general conversations.
> I'm trying to keep the announce thread clean. :-)
One of the characteristics of Little Computer People is that they have a different (or almost different) character for each copy of the program.
Having said that I come to the point.
In the LITTLE.COMP.PPL file at offset $8F1 I find the fixed "key" NVTCA which should be preceded by the 8 digits of the serial number, in the case of the 4am crack they are 81300000.
In your ProDOS port instead I find the following bytes 42, 38, 31, 38, 33, 01, 30, 50 and any attempt to modify leads to a bad death of the program.
Do you believe that one can personalize his own copy If yes, how?
Thanks
Marco
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392690 is a reply to message #392685] |
Fri, 03 April 2020 13:16 |
qkumba
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> One of the characteristics of Little Computer People is that they have a different (or almost different) character for each copy of the program.
Yes, I am aware of that.
> In the LITTLE.COMP.PPL file at offset $8F1 I find the fixed "key" NVTCA which should be preceded by the 8 digits of the serial number, in the case of the 4am crack they are 81300000.
It's replaced by the contents of T$11 S$0F as the game loads.
> In your ProDOS port instead I find the following bytes 42, 38, 31, 38, 33, 01, 30, 50
I hard-coded the T$11 S$0F serial number from 4am's copy.
> and any attempt to modify leads to a bad death of the program.
>
> Do you believe that one can personalize his own copy If yes, how?
I was considering the same thing afterwards. Right now, it would be difficult.
Perhaps I will change it to read a SERIAL file instead.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392691 is a reply to message #392690] |
Fri, 03 April 2020 14:51 |
mverpelli
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Registered: May 2013
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On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 7:16:42 PM UTC+2, qkumba wrote:
>> One of the characteristics of Little Computer People is that they have a different (or almost different) character for each copy of the program.
>
> Yes, I am aware of that.
>
>> In the LITTLE.COMP.PPL file at offset $8F1 I find the fixed "key" NVTCA which should be preceded by the 8 digits of the serial number, in the case of the 4am crack they are 81300000.
>
> It's replaced by the contents of T$11 S$0F as the game loads.
>
>> In your ProDOS port instead I find the following bytes 42, 38, 31, 38, 33, 01, 30, 50
>
> I hard-coded the T$11 S$0F serial number from 4am's copy.
>
>> and any attempt to modify leads to a bad death of the program.
>>
>> Do you believe that one can personalize his own copy If yes, how?
>
> I was considering the same thing afterwards. Right now, it would be difficult.
> Perhaps I will change it to read a SERIAL file instead.
Read from a file: sounds perfect.
I agree that it is not easy but it is certainly the best solution.
From my notes it appears that there are two "cycles" related to the serial. The first: serial module 256 gives the name of the LCP
The second: serial module 8 gives the characteristics of the character hat, cap, glasses, bald, ....
Marco
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392693 is a reply to message #392691] |
Fri, 03 April 2020 15:34 |
Antoine Vignau
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Registered: October 2012
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I never played with LCP so forgive my questions but:
- why are characteristics different?
- what does +/- baldiness or other "skill" bring to the game?
- how do people realize a s/n was used to define chars?
Antoine
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392695 is a reply to message #392693] |
Fri, 03 April 2020 18:39 |
qkumba
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It's a simulation, so having different people on different copies would yield a slightly different experience.
I suspect that most people didn't realise that the disks were unique, unless they happened to know someone else with an original copy, and could see that it looked different.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392704 is a reply to message #392693] |
Sat, 04 April 2020 03:19 |
mverpelli
Messages: 289
Registered: May 2013
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On Friday, April 3, 2020 at 9:34:08 PM UTC+2, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> I never played with LCP so forgive my questions but:
> - why are characteristics different?
> - what does +/- baldiness or other "skill" bring to the game?
> - how do people realize a s/n was used to define chars?
>
> Antoine
I knew it via C64 there is at least one site where you can download customized disks, that is, you can choose the name of the LCP.
In fact I think the differences are mostly cosmetic even if the marketing of the time insisted a lot on the fact that each LCP had its own character.
Marco
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392730 is a reply to message #392664] |
Sat, 04 April 2020 23:59 |
Alex Lee
Messages: 220
Registered: November 2012
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On 2020-04-03 00:58:37 +0000, Antoine Vignau said:
> On the IIgs, titles that played with the disk format:
> - Tomahawk (game)
> - Alien Mind (game)
> - The hunt for Red October (game)
> - (more or less) Dungeon Master (game, a std format using the extra 12
> nibbles among other fun things)
> - Splash (early 87 demo)
> - ANSI something (a early AU utility)
>
> Other titles are either using off-disk protections (password
> protection), or on-disk protections (bad block for some, HLS track
> length for A LOT of titles)
>
> Antoine
Also commercial games GATE and Space Shark and freeware games Sensei
and Space Clusters.
Not to mention most demoscene titles – anything by the FTA/ACS/SSS
(except the ROM3 compatible version of Nucleus), the FUCK, GSA, Digital
Exodus, etc, etc.
Alex
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392731 is a reply to message #392662] |
Sun, 05 April 2020 00:03 |
Alex Lee
Messages: 220
Registered: November 2012
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On 2020-04-02 23:34:45 +0000, Todd Holcomb said:
> On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 11:35:02 AM UTC-5, qkumba wrote:
>> Great. All of my ProDOS port so far run on the IIe.
>> I have only one IIGS-specific port-request so far (Alien Mind).
>> Everything else on my list is for the IIe.
>
> I had no idea that we could request IIgs ports too. Alien Mind would
> be awesome! I'd also like to see Superstar Ice Hockey and Mean18 be
> able to run from a HD. I imagine that Alex Lee will have some requests
> as well...
Superstar Ice Hockey DOES work from a hard drive – you just can't use
System 6 with it. Mean 18 also has had a hard path change by me and a
hack by Antoine. These are on the specially hacked games to play from a
hard drive:
https://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/some-classic-iigs-gam es-now-hard-drive-installable-plus-more-icons/
Towards the bottom of this post it also includes the list of commercial
games that don't currently work from a hard drive and/or System 6. This
requires more playing around with paths than the hard core work that
qkumba does.
Would love these titles to be hard drive installable.
Alex
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392754 is a reply to message #391942] |
Sun, 05 April 2020 15:15 |
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Originally posted by: B T
Hello,
Did Standing Stones ever make it on the list?
If not, I would like to request.
The only one on Asimov works on an emulator, and as an image on CFFA3000.
But the dos is kinda funky, so cant use dos launcher or any other workaround thus far to get on a ProDos volume..
Thanks, -BT
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392755 is a reply to message #392754] |
Sun, 05 April 2020 15:30 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
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On Sun, 5 Apr 2020, B T wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Did Standing Stones ever make it on the list?
> If not, I would like to request.
> The only one on Asimov works on an emulator, and as an image on CFFA3000.
> But the dos is kinda funky, so cant use dos launcher or any other workaround thus far to get on a ProDos volume..
>
> Thanks, -BT
Huh. It's got a normal DOS 3.3 catalog. I wonder if it's possible to
coax it to use the MECC loader?
-uso.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392765 is a reply to message #392757] |
Sun, 05 April 2020 17:08 |
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Originally posted by: B T
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:06:45 PM UTC-4, qkumba wrote:
> ProRWTS2 can do that using RWTS mode. The only question is how the game knows when side 2 is inserted.
I can tell SPLASH.OBJ0 is the boot program. And although the disk seems perfectly accessible form dos 3.3, I cant get past the load screen if I copy all the files onto a normal formatted dos 3.3. So the tools I am using expect normal 3.3, which maybe this isn't?
I have not used ProRWTS2
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392776 is a reply to message #392765] |
Sun, 05 April 2020 22:15 |
qkumba
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Registered: March 2013
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I checked. It's relying on one sector having a particular format which DOS by default doesn't have.
Beyond that, it's relying on a file-loading style in DOS that is missing from ProDOS. I can put it on an 800kb ProDOS image easily enough, but making it run from a 5.25" floppy would be difficult.
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #392823 is a reply to message #391942] |
Mon, 06 April 2020 22:57 |
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Originally posted by: B T
Hello again, I was curious is something happened to castle Smurfenstein, and Dino Smurf.
I think you announced they were complete, but they never showed up on Asimov?
Thanks, BT
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #393069 is a reply to message #393068] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 06:24 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
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Ah! Battle Chess.
Member of the "great game, poor protection" list of software for the Apple II.
I remember when I cracked it a very long time ago, the protection check was called by a JSR only.
The game is very well made, the animation is great. I cannot tell for the ELO level but it is a great Apple II title.
I wonder how many great titles had a poor protection,
Antoine
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #393070 is a reply to message #393069] |
Thu, 16 April 2020 11:58 |
qkumba
Messages: 1584
Registered: March 2013
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> Ah! Battle Chess.
> Member of the "great game, poor protection" list of software for the Apple II.
Yes, they weren't trying very hard by that point.
> I wonder how many great titles had a poor protection,
So many. :-)
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| Re: ProDOS port discussion [message #393077 is a reply to message #393064] |
Sat, 18 April 2020 19:43 |
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Originally posted by: B T
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:12:12 PM UTC-4, qkumba wrote:
>> an 800k would be great. Looking to have it on my HD(CFFA3000)
>
> http://pferrie.epizy.com/misc/tmp/standing%20stones%20PRODOS %20(san%20inc%20pack).zip
Hello Again,
I gave the Stones a try, but it seems to be malfunctioning.
It does boot, and a character can be created. But as soon as you try and "enter the dungeon", it crashes to the monitor.
Tried it via CFFA3000 on a real apple, as well as, Applewin. Same result.
I tried the disk images on Asimov as a control, and they work correctly.
Thanks, BT
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