| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390832 is a reply to message #390514] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 11:46   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>> PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite the
>> fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>
> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
> article with a virtual keyboard.
Not easy, but very convenient.
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390833 is a reply to message #390827] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 11:46 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> There are still a number of unixen, it's not all Linux. Android and
>>> IOS are quite different despite using unixish kernels, there's Windows of
>>> course and whatever the IBM mainframe OS is called these days.
>>>
>>>> The results have been stagnation and decline.
>>>
>>> Not seeing that except in the Wintel world.
>>>
>>
>> I’d like to be able to buy a POWER or 680x0 desktop or laptop.
>
> Why?
>
because. $6000 for a POWER9 desktop is a bit pricy, though.
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390834 is a reply to message #390829] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 11:46 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> writes:
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> owner-managed companies”
>>>>
>>>> sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>
>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>> lost count of.
>>
>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>
> I presume you are refering to the Mac, since both the Iphone and the Ipad
> have indiginously designed ARMv8 architecture processors; both highly regarded.
>
> Given the hassles when switching from 68k to Power, and then to Intel, I can't
> see them changing the Mac processor any time soon.
>
I would think after two ports they would have made it easy.
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390838 is a reply to message #390834] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 13:17 |
scott
Messages: 4239
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> writes:
>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> > corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> > owner-managed companies”
>>>> >
>>>> > sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> > architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>>
>>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>>> lost count of.
>>>
>>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>>
>> I presume you are refering to the Mac, since both the Iphone and the Ipad
>> have indiginously designed ARMv8 architecture processors; both highly regarded.
>>
>> Given the hassles when switching from 68k to Power, and then to Intel, I can't
>> see them changing the Mac processor any time soon.
>>
>
> I would think after two ports they would have made it easy.
What about the million third-party OSX apps?
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390839 is a reply to message #390831] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 13:20 |
scott
Messages: 4239
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> owner-managed companies”
>>>>
>>>> sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>
>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>> lost count of.
>>
>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>>
>
> There would be no lack of software since gcc and Linux support those
> architectures (I assume).
There are full Ubuntu, Redhat and SLES distributions available for ARMv8
processors. We run all three on our simulation software
as well as on our processor hardware.
Many of the small Raspberry Pi style systems now support AArch64 (ARM64)
and run the standard Ubuntu ARM64 release.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390842 is a reply to message #390839] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 13:48 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 18:20:24 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> There are full Ubuntu, Redhat and SLES distributions available for ARMv8
> processors. We run all three on our simulation software
> as well as on our processor hardware.
FreeBSD runs well on ThunderX, Rockchip and Allwinner chipsets and
to some extent on Raspberry Pi (lack of open documentation is a problem on
many chipsets). Plan 9 has been ported to the Raspberry Pi too (for those
hankering for a less common OS).
> Many of the small Raspberry Pi style systems now support AArch64 (ARM64)
> and run the standard Ubuntu ARM64 release.
Often with some proprietary drivers though.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390843 is a reply to message #390832] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 14:05 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-02-12, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>>> PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite the
>>> fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>>
>> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
>> article with a virtual keyboard.
>
> Not easy, but very convenient.
And that's modern computing in a nutshell. Well put.
When I see people pointing and clicking and dragging and dropping and...
oops, where did I drop that icon... it makes me want to scream. Especially
when they they go on about how convenient it is - while I could accomplish
the same thing in a couple of seconds with a dozen keystrokes. Feh.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390844 is a reply to message #390843] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 14:20 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 2:06:13 PM UTC-5, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2020-02-12, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>>>> PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite the
>>>> fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>>>
>>> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
>>> article with a virtual keyboard.
>>
>> Not easy, but very convenient.
>
> And that's modern computing in a nutshell. Well put.
>
> When I see people pointing and clicking and dragging and dropping and...
> oops, where did I drop that icon... it makes me want to scream. Especially
> when they they go on about how convenient it is - while I could accomplish
> the same thing in a couple of seconds with a dozen keystrokes. Feh.
In my opinion, the computing needs of most people could've
been met by DOS 5.0 and a AT class computer. There were
menu utilities available so one didn't need to do much
with the C> prompt.
But text on green-on-glass wasn't much fun nor entertaining.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390850 is a reply to message #390842] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 15:54 |
scott
Messages: 4239
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 18:20:24 GMT
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> There are full Ubuntu, Redhat and SLES distributions available for ARMv8
>> processors. We run all three on our simulation software
>> as well as on our processor hardware.
>
> FreeBSD runs well on ThunderX, Rockchip and Allwinner chipsets and
> to some extent on Raspberry Pi (lack of open documentation is a problem on
> many chipsets). Plan 9 has been ported to the Raspberry Pi too (for those
> hankering for a less common OS).
>
>> Many of the small Raspberry Pi style systems now support AArch64 (ARM64)
>> and run the standard Ubuntu ARM64 release.
>
> Often with some proprietary drivers though.
Haven't seen that on the RPI or others; linux supports everything
of interest (mmc/sd, gpio, graphics, et alia).
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390851 is a reply to message #390846] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 15:58 |
Andy Leighton
Messages: 203
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 20:30:09 -0000 (UTC),
Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 11:48:30 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 04:04:40 -0600
>> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered
> by
>>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost.
>>
>> You can get ARM based computers for very reasonable costs, for
>> example:
>>
>> https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2-with-4gbyte-ram/
>>
> Sadly out of stock when I looked.
>
>> or more fruity
>>
>> https://www.solid-run.com/nxp-lx2160a-family/honeycomb-works tation/
Of the two the Honeycomb seems to intersect more with what I would want
despite being very bare bones (no memory, storage, psu, or enclosure).
Of course ordering from the US would mean paying import duty so it
might be best to get all those stock items locally anyway.
However the big problem with the Honeycomb is graphics. There doesn't
seem to be any graphics support on board, and I couldn't see any
HDMI/DVI/DP connection on the board either.
But it does look interesting.
--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390852 is a reply to message #390829] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 16:11 |
Andy Leighton
Messages: 203
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:59:38 GMT, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> writes:
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> owner-managed companies”
>>>>
>>>> sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>
>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>> lost count of.
>>
>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>
> I presume you are refering to the Mac, since both the Iphone and the Ipad
> have indiginously designed ARMv8 architecture processors; both highly regarded.
Yep - I wouldn't call the ipad a general purpose computer and I don't
think anyone would call the iphone one.
> Given the hassles when switching from 68k to Power, and then to Intel, I can't
> see them changing the Mac processor any time soon.
There are tons of rumours that they are planning just that. That they
have ARM-based macs running in their labs. Presumably they will wait
until they have their A14 processor in production - getting the
performance right will be key.
--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390854 is a reply to message #390851] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 16:14 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:58:48 -0600
Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
> Of the two the Honeycomb seems to intersect more with what I would want
> despite being very bare bones (no memory, storage, psu, or enclosure).
It's an ITX board so those are easy and off the shelf.
> Of course ordering from the US would mean paying import duty so it
> might be best to get all those stock items locally anyway.
Yep.
> However the big problem with the Honeycomb is graphics. There doesn't
> seem to be any graphics support on board, and I couldn't see any
> HDMI/DVI/DP connection on the board either.
True but there is a PCIe x8 slot into which you could place a
graphics card with as much GPU as you like, it just needs to be supported
by the Linux ARM port.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390859 is a reply to message #390852] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 17:42 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 15:11:04 -0600
Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
> Yep - I wouldn't call the ipad a general purpose computer and I don't
> think anyone would call the iphone one.
Both could be, but not while they're running IOS.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390865 is a reply to message #390832] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 19:02 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:46:24 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>>> PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite the
>>> fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>>
>> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
>> article with a virtual keyboard.
>
> Not easy, but very convenient.
When I used a tablet I write longhand. It deals.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390868 is a reply to message #390839] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 20:38 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> > corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> > owner-managed companies”
>>>> >
>>>> > sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> > architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>>
>>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>>> lost count of.
>>>
>>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>>>
>>
>> There would be no lack of software since gcc and Linux support those
>> architectures (I assume).
>
> There are full Ubuntu, Redhat and SLES distributions available for ARMv8
> processors. We run all three on our simulation software
> as well as on our processor hardware.
>
> Many of the small Raspberry Pi style systems now support AArch64 (ARM64)
> and run the standard Ubuntu ARM64 release.
>
I have a Raspi in a box somewhere. I just didn’t know about RISC-V and
MIPS. Is SPARC dead?
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390869 is a reply to message #390843] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 20:38 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2020-02-12, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>>>> PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite the
>>>> fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>>>
>>> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
>>> article with a virtual keyboard.
>>
>> Not easy, but very convenient.
>
> And that's modern computing in a nutshell. Well put.
>
> When I see people pointing and clicking and dragging and dropping and...
> oops, where did I drop that icon... it makes me want to scream. Especially
> when they they go on about how convenient it is - while I could accomplish
> the same thing in a couple of seconds with a dozen keystrokes. Feh.
>
If I’m up and about I prefer a real computer, but I sit here on my sofa
with my iPad handy and it’s often not worth getting up.
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390870 is a reply to message #390844] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 20:38 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 2:06:13 PM UTC-5, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2020-02-12, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>>>> > PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite the
>>>> > fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>>>>
>>>> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
>>>> article with a virtual keyboard.
>>>
>>> Not easy, but very convenient.
>>
>> And that's modern computing in a nutshell. Well put.
>>
>> When I see people pointing and clicking and dragging and dropping and...
>> oops, where did I drop that icon... it makes me want to scream. Especially
>> when they they go on about how convenient it is - while I could accomplish
>> the same thing in a couple of seconds with a dozen keystrokes. Feh.
>
> In my opinion, the computing needs of most people could've
> been met by DOS 5.0 and a AT class computer. There were
> menu utilities available so one didn't need to do much
> with the C> prompt.
>
> But text on green-on-glass wasn't much fun nor entertaining.
>
I do a lot of photo stuff, so the pretty colors are nice. I still remember
the animated readmacs we used go share around.
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390871 is a reply to message #390852] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 20:38 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:59:38 GMT, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> writes:
>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> > corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> > owner-managed companies”
>>>> >
>>>> > sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> > architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>>
>>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>>> lost count of.
>>>
>>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>>
>> I presume you are refering to the Mac, since both the Iphone and the Ipad
>> have indiginously designed ARMv8 architecture processors; both highly regarded.
>
> Yep - I wouldn't call the ipad a general purpose computer and I don't
> think anyone would call the iphone one.
>
>> Given the hassles when switching from 68k to Power, and then to Intel, I can't
>> see them changing the Mac processor any time soon.
>
> There are tons of rumours that they are planning just that. That they
> have ARM-based macs running in their labs. Presumably they will wait
> until they have their A14 processor in production - getting the
> performance right will be key.
>
i believe they’ve licensed ARM already for iPhone and iPad. A while ago
they bought a chip design outfit, presumably to work on their proprietary
ARM designs. I haven’t heard much lately.
--
Pete
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390874 is a reply to message #390868] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 21:22 |
|
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 18:38:40 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> >> corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> >> owner-managed companies”
>>>> >>
>>>> >> sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> >> architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>> >
>>>> > There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>>> > variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>>> > development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>>> > lost count of.
>>>>
>>>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>>>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>>>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There would be no lack of software since gcc and Linux support those
>>> architectures (I assume).
>>
>> There are full Ubuntu, Redhat and SLES distributions available for ARMv8
>> processors. We run all three on our simulation software
>> as well as on our processor hardware.
>>
>> Many of the small Raspberry Pi style systems now support AArch64 (ARM64)
>> and run the standard Ubuntu ARM64 release.
>>
>
> I have a Raspi in a box somewhere. I just didn’t know about RISC-V and
> MIPS. Is SPARC dead?
SPARC isn't quite dead. I understand Fujitsu is still making chips at
the high end, and at the low end it's open source--in principle you
can make your own from a programmable gate array.
<https://www.gaisler.com/index.php/downloads/leongrlib>.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390876 is a reply to message #390869] |
Wed, 12 February 2020 22:34 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2020-02-13, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-02-12, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:09:12 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I was thinking of a mainstream desktop and laptop, so we have Intel-based
>>>> > PCs and Intel-based Macs. I did unfairly discount tablets, etc. despite
>>>> > the fact that I’m writing this on an iPad.
>>>>
>>>> With external keyboard or voice input? Wouldn't want to write news
>>>> article with a virtual keyboard.
>>>
>>> Not easy, but very convenient.
>>
>> And that's modern computing in a nutshell. Well put.
>>
>> When I see people pointing and clicking and dragging and dropping and...
>> oops, where did I drop that icon... it makes me want to scream. Especially
>> when they they go on about how convenient it is - while I could accomplish
>> the same thing in a couple of seconds with a dozen keystrokes. Feh.
>
> If I’m up and about I prefer a real computer, but I sit here on my sofa
> with my iPad handy and it’s often not worth getting up.
I have a wireless keyboard and mouse beside the sofa, talking to the
computer attached to our 60-inch TV. If surfing the web or playing
Portal isn't enough, I can ssh into the box in the office and do
real work.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390879 is a reply to message #390514] |
Thu, 13 February 2020 05:37 |
Andy Leighton
Messages: 203
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:41:32 -0500,
J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 04:04:40 -0600, Andy Leighton
> <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:35:56 +0000,
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:40:15 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> “In The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776, Smith noted that the
>>>> corporation undermined an ideal market economy composed of small,
>>>> owner-managed companiesâ€
>>>>
>>>> sadly we have seen this in the computer business, where many chip
>>>> architectures have consolidated to two, many PC manufacturers into a few,
>>>
>>> There are more than two chip architectures, we have 32 and 64 bit
>>> variants of both ARM and x86, IBM Power, RISC-V and MIPS all in active
>>> development to say nothing of the GPU architectures which I've long since
>>> lost count of.
>>
>> Although it is a pity I can't get a general purpose computer powered by
>> most of those architectures for a reasonable cost. Maybe Apple will get
>> an ARM powered machine out this year.
>
> I just got an ARM-powered machine new for 5 bucks. Google "Raspberry
> Pi". If you want one that's useful as a desktop machine look for a
> Pi4--with 4 gig RAM it's 55 bucks. You'll need a MicroSD card, a
> power brick, keyboard, mouse, and monitor and you're set.
Yep I have a second generation Raspberry Pi. It isn't right for me, I
want a bit more grunt, a bit more memory, more storage options than even
the Pi4 can give. In general I need more than a small SBC - whatever
the processor - I want something I can use as an everyday computer. I
appreciate for some people a Pi4 is more than enough.
--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390884 is a reply to message #390514] |
Thu, 13 February 2020 13:45 |
scott
Messages: 4239
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 04:04:40 -0600, Andy Leighton
> <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
> For MIPS, MIPS64 isn't available cheap anywhere I can identify, but
> they have a 32-bit board CI20 that's again down in the Raspberry Pi
> range.
Pick up any cheap firewall/router box supported by DD-WRT or OpenWRT
for an inexpensive MIPS box.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390894 is a reply to message #390884] |
Fri, 14 February 2020 05:56 |
Anssi Saari
Messages: 327
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 04:04:40 -0600, Andy Leighton
>> <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> For MIPS, MIPS64 isn't available cheap anywhere I can identify, but
>> they have a 32-bit board CI20 that's again down in the Raspberry Pi
>> range.
>
> Pick up any cheap firewall/router box supported by DD-WRT or OpenWRT
> for an inexpensive MIPS box.
They're not all MIPS though. Lots of OpenWRT supported routers are ARM
based. Some are even x86 based.
For a datapoint, Ubiquiti's Edgerouter ERPoe‑5 apparently runs on a dual
core MIPS64 from Cavium. AFAIK. Hard to find out exactly. I intend to
get one of these so I guess I'll find out.
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390966 is a reply to message #390842] |
Sun, 16 February 2020 12:10 |
Andreas Eder
Messages: 128
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed 12 Feb 2020 at 18:48, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> FreeBSD runs well on ThunderX, Rockchip and Allwinner chipsets and
> to some extent on Raspberry Pi (lack of open documentation is a problem on
> many chipsets). Plan 9 has been ported to the Raspberry Pi too (for those
> hankering for a less common OS).
There is also RISC OS for the Raspberry Pi!
'Andreas
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| Re: Huawei 5G networks [message #390969 is a reply to message #390966] |
Sun, 16 February 2020 12:45 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 18:10:33 +0100
Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
> On Wed 12 Feb 2020 at 18:48, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
> wrote:
>
>> FreeBSD runs well on ThunderX, Rockchip and Allwinner chipsets
>> and to some extent on Raspberry Pi (lack of open documentation is a
>> problem on many chipsets). Plan 9 has been ported to the Raspberry Pi
>> too (for those hankering for a less common OS).
>
> There is also RISC OS for the Raspberry Pi!
The original ARM operating system.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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