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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389692 is a reply to message #389691] |
Mon, 23 December 2019 19:18   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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<hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> CBS News reported
>
> . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
> profession over the next decade.
>
> . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
> many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>
> . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
> because of the impact of automation
>
>
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>
> I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
> Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
> unwanted.
>
It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
--
Pete
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389693 is a reply to message #389692] |
Mon, 23 December 2019 20:03 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> CBS News reported
>>
>> . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
>> profession over the next decade.
>>
>> . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
>> many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>>
>> . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
>> because of the impact of automation
>>
>>
>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>>
>> I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
>> Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
>> unwanted.
>>
>
> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
> out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
until the money runs out.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389694 is a reply to message #389692] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 01:34 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
> workers?
"Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
When I was a child there was talk of automation freeing people from
the tyranny of labour. This still seems like a good idea. We need to learn
that life is not about working it is about living and that life can be
richer when you don't spend 30% or more of it doing boring shite.
The average working week has got shorter during my life and I hope
it continues to get shorter still as we manage things such that we don't
need 80% of us working flat out to keep everything running.
Of course we need to abandon the idea that people have to work to
live and can only have what they "earn" and "deserve" and embrace the idea
that society exists to enable people to live.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389697 is a reply to message #389694] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 13:06 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>> workers?
>
> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
> the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
Sounds good, doesn’t it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
Dutch program to provide “meaningful activity” to unemployed workers.
Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable
paintings. They might as well have burned them, or shredded the canvases as
package filler.
The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
paper bags and getting into trouble.
>
> When I was a child there was talk of automation freeing people from
> the tyranny of labour. This still seems like a good idea. We need to learn
> that life is not about working it is about living and that life can be
> richer when you don't spend 30% or more of it doing boring shite.
>
> The average working week has got shorter during my life and I hope
> it continues to get shorter still as we manage things such that we don't
> need 80% of us working flat out to keep everything running.
>
> Of course we need to abandon the idea that people have to work to
> live and can only have what they "earn" and "deserve" and embrace the idea
> that society exists to enable people to live.
>
--
Pete
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389698 is a reply to message #389691] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 16:26 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2019-12-24, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-12-24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Of course we need to abandon the idea that people have to work to
>> live and can only have what they "earn" and "deserve" and embrace the idea
>> that society exists to enable people to live.
>
> *applause*
+1
Just watch out for pushback from the Powers That Be.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389699 is a reply to message #389697] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 17:31 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how
>> are we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work
>> to fill the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to
>> work.
>
> Sounds good, doesn’t it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
> Dutch program to provide “meaningful activity” to unemployed workers.
> Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
> bought their work.
Fails right there - that's employment by another name with no
incentive to good work.
> The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable paintings.
Yep no point in producing things nobody wants, that's not
meaningful. Try looking at all the things that need doing that nobody wants
to pay to have done and getting some community spirit going.
> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
and little talent for work.
> myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
> paper bags and getting into trouble.
Yep we're crap at providing things to do that aren't work or
wasting time, we need to get good at it.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389700 is a reply to message #389697] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 18:03 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>>> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>>> workers?
>>
>> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
>> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
>> the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
>
> Sounds good, doesn’t it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
> Dutch program to provide “meaningful activity” to unemployed workers.
> Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
> bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable
> paintings. They might as well have burned them, or shredded the canvases as
> package filler.
>
> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
> myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
> paper bags and getting into trouble.
When I've been unemployed I generally ended up playing video games and
getting fat.
>> When I was a child there was talk of automation freeing people from
>> the tyranny of labour. This still seems like a good idea. We need to learn
>> that life is not about working it is about living and that life can be
>> richer when you don't spend 30% or more of it doing boring shite.
>>
>> The average working week has got shorter during my life and I hope
>> it continues to get shorter still as we manage things such that we don't
>> need 80% of us working flat out to keep everything running.
>>
>> Of course we need to abandon the idea that people have to work to
>> live and can only have what they "earn" and "deserve" and embrace the idea
>> that society exists to enable people to live.
>>
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389701 is a reply to message #389698] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 18:04 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 24 Dec 2019 21:26:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2019-12-24, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-12-24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Of course we need to abandon the idea that people have to work to
>>> live and can only have what they "earn" and "deserve" and embrace the idea
>>> that society exists to enable people to live.
>>
>> *applause*
>
> +1
>
> Just watch out for pushback from the Powers That Be.
The real concern isn't pushback from the Powers That Be--Caesar didn't
seem to mind paying for bread and circuses. The real concern is the
people who decide that the dole they are getting isn't big enough or
that they are being oppressed in some other way, and with plenty of
leisure time they have ample opportunity to find trouble to get into.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389702 is a reply to message #389700] |
Tue, 24 December 2019 20:00 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>>>> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>>>> workers?
>>>
>>> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
>>> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
>>> the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
>>
>> Sounds good, doesn’t it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
>> Dutch program to provide “meaningful activity” to unemployed workers.
>> Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
>> bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable
>> paintings. They might as well have burned them, or shredded the canvases as
>> package filler.
>>
>> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
>> myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
>> paper bags and getting into trouble.
>
> When I've been unemployed I generally ended up playing video games and
> getting fat.
I managed to get payed and not work the summer of 72.
It was glorious.
I went to the beach every chance I got.
I've never been fat.
A little soft after age 40.
Retirement has been good to me, more time for exercise.
Not soft now.
I've been a pinball addict for a long time, I played whether I was
employed or not.
I think we're pretty far from forced unemployment becoming a problem.
The official unemployment rate is pretty low.
Maybe people can learn to drink beer and not get in trouble.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389703 is a reply to message #389702] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 03:55 |
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Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John
On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 01:00:18 GMT, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require
>>>> > half the labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put
>>>> > long-haul truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with
>>>> > all the excess workers?
>>>>
>>>> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how
>>>> are
>>>> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work
>>>> to fill the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need
>>>> to work.
>>>
>>> Sounds good, doesn’t it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special
>>> on a Dutch program to provide “meaningful activity” to unemployed
>>> workers. Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the
>>> government bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of
>>> unsaleable paintings. They might as well have burned them, or
>>> shredded the canvases as package filler.
>>>
>>> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I
>>> include myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking
>>> beer out of paper bags and getting into trouble.
>>
>> When I've been unemployed I generally ended up playing video games
>> and getting fat.
>
> I managed to get payed and not work the summer of 72.
> It was glorious.
> I went to the beach every chance I got.
>
> I've never been fat.
> A little soft after age 40.
> Retirement has been good to me, more time for exercise.
> Not soft now.
>
> I've been a pinball addict for a long time, I played whether I was
> employed or not.
>
> I think we're pretty far from forced unemployment becoming a problem.
> The official unemployment rate is pretty low.
>
> Maybe people can learn to drink beer and not get in trouble.
>
It's what I do.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389704 is a reply to message #389694] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 06:00 |
Andreas Eder
Messages: 128
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue 24 Dec 2019 at 06:34, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>> workers?
>
> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
> the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
>
> When I was a child there was talk of automation freeing people from
> the tyranny of labour. This still seems like a good idea. We need to learn
> that life is not about working it is about living and that life can be
> richer when you don't spend 30% or more of it doing boring shite.
>
> The average working week has got shorter during my life and I hope
> it continues to get shorter still as we manage things such that we don't
> need 80% of us working flat out to keep everything running.
>
> Of course we need to abandon the idea that people have to work to
> live and can only have what they "earn" and "deserve" and embrace the idea
> that society exists to enable people to live.
+1
'andreas
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389705 is a reply to message #389697] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 11:12 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Its becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>>> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>>> workers?
>>
>> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
>> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
>> the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
>
> Sounds good, doesnt it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
> Dutch program to provide meaningful activity to unemployed workers.
> Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
> bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable
> paintings. They might as well have burned them, or shredded the canvases as
> package filler.
>
> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
> myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
> paper bags and getting into trouble.
I've been unemployed, and never done that. Even the time I was
unemployed for 2 years after Hurricane Katrina.
--
Jim
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389706 is a reply to message #389702] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 11:16 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 20:00:18 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Its becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>>> > labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>>>> > truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>>>> > workers?
>>>>
>>>> "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
>>>> we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
>>>> the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
>>>
>>> Sounds good, doesnt it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
>>> Dutch program to provide meaningful activity to unemployed workers.
>>> Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
>>> bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable
>>> paintings. They might as well have burned them, or shredded the canvases as
>>> package filler.
>>>
>>> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
>>> myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
>>> paper bags and getting into trouble.
>>
>> When I've been unemployed I generally ended up playing video games and
>> getting fat.
>
> I managed to get payed and not work the summer of 72.
> It was glorious.
> I went to the beach every chance I got.
>
> I've never been fat.
> A little soft after age 40.
> Retirement has been good to me, more time for exercise.
> Not soft now.
>
> I've been a pinball addict for a long time, I played whether I was
> employed or not.
>
> I think we're pretty far from forced unemployment becoming a problem.
> The official unemployment rate is pretty low.
>
> Maybe people can learn to drink beer and not get in trouble.
The official numbers are mostly incorrect as people who have tried and
given up, are not counted in the U.S.
I tried for 2 years after my employer left town, after Katrina. I did
eventually found work. Around half the businesses in the county were
damaged or destroyed.
It was worth the wait as the job the best paying one I ever had.
--
Jim
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389707 is a reply to message #389699] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 13:15 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 22:31:33 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700
>
>> The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable paintings.
>
> Yep no point in producing things nobody wants, that's not
> meaningful. Try looking at all the things that need doing that nobody wants
> to pay to have done and getting some community spirit going.
You only need to tell people they want it. Like when the newest
smartphone is about to hit the market many through their only two year
old device away and camp out the night in front of the store. None of
these really needs a new iPhone every two years, but they buy them like
hot cake.
To get on topic: I wonder if the camping already happened in the
1980s. For example when the newest TRS-80 or Apple ][ versions came
out. If not, when started this?
--
Andreas
My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389708 is a reply to message #389707] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 16:19 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 13:15:33 -0500
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> To get on topic: I wonder if the camping already happened in the
> 1980s. For example when the newest TRS-80 or Apple ][ versions came
> out.
Certainly not in the UK, there were at times people waiting for the
next model or some upgrade but they tended to have booked their slot in the
queue early (with a deposit) and be waiting a call rather than queuing up
outside the door.
> If not, when started this?
Long queues outside the cinema to see the latest blockbuster film on
the opening night (or even in the opening week at the peak), camping
overnight for Harrod's sale, Wimbledon tickets ...
It's been going on for ages, it's just that it's only recently made
it to electronic widgets.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389709 is a reply to message #389706] |
Wed, 25 December 2019 20:50 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 20:00:18 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:06:26 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>>> >> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul
>>>> >> truckers out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess
>>>> >> workers?
>>>> >
>>>> > "Excess workers" that sounds like a PR phrase - how about how are
>>>> > we going to provide leisure and meaningful activity that isn't work to fill
>>>> > the time and enhance the life of the people who don't need to work.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds good, doesn’t it. A few years ago 60 Minutes had a special on a
>>>> Dutch program to provide “meaningful activity” to unemployed workers.
>>>> Apparently a lot of them thought art would be great, and the government
>>>> bought their work. The special showed warehouses full of unsaleable
>>>> paintings. They might as well have burned them, or shredded the canvases as
>>>> package filler.
>>>>
>>>> The average person has no talent for leisure activities, and I include
>>>> myself. Unemployed people wind up on streetcorners drinking beer out of
>>>> paper bags and getting into trouble.
>>>
>>> When I've been unemployed I generally ended up playing video games and
>>> getting fat.
>>
>> I managed to get payed and not work the summer of 72.
>> It was glorious.
>> I went to the beach every chance I got.
>>
>> I've never been fat.
>> A little soft after age 40.
>> Retirement has been good to me, more time for exercise.
>> Not soft now.
>>
>> I've been a pinball addict for a long time, I played whether I was
>> employed or not.
>>
>> I think we're pretty far from forced unemployment becoming a problem.
>> The official unemployment rate is pretty low.
>>
>> Maybe people can learn to drink beer and not get in trouble.
>
> The official numbers are mostly incorrect as people who have tried and
> given up, are not counted in the U.S.
As you probably know, there are the official numbers, and then a whole
bunch of other official numbers. There are many ways to count the
unemployed. I don't think any of those ways indicate a problem.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389710 is a reply to message #389693] |
Thu, 26 December 2019 13:38 |
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Originally posted by: googlegroups jmfbahciv
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>> CBS News reported
>>>
>>> . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
>>> profession over the next decade.
>>>
>>> . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
>>> many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>>>
>>> . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
>>> because of the impact of automation
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>>>
>>> I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
>>> Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
>>> unwanted.
>>>
>>
>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
>> out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
>
> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
> until the money runs out.
You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
electronics.
/BAH
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389712 is a reply to message #389710] |
Thu, 26 December 2019 14:06 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 10:38:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
<jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> CBS News reported
>>>>
>>>> . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
>>>> profession over the next decade.
>>>>
>>>> . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
>>>> many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>>>>
>>>> . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
>>>> because of the impact of automation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>>>>
>>>> I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
>>>> Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
>>>> unwanted.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
>>> out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
>>
>> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
>> until the money runs out.
>
> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
> electronics.
I suppose I should have included a sarcasm warning.
However I am curious as to the reasoning by which it would eliminate
all electronics--that is a criticism that I have not seen before.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389714 is a reply to message #389692] |
Thu, 26 December 2019 16:45 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 7:18:04 PM UTC-5, Peter Flass wrote:
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> CBS News reported
>>
>> . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
>> profession over the next decade.
>>
>> . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
>> many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>>
>> . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
>> because of the impact of automation
>>
>>
>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>>
>> I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
>> Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
>> unwanted.
>>
>
> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
> out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
After WW II, Kurt Vonnegut wrote a book about automation and
unemployment. So many workers were unneeded there was a
govt program for them, nicknamed the wrecks.
On the one hand, we've always had mechanization for centuries.
Manual labor has always been automated as new technology
came out making it affordable.
We used to have armies of clerks manning adding machines
and bookkeeping machines that were made surplus by
computers. But new jobs were created by a growing
economy. Indeed, the Bell System used to brag that
it had more operators serving an automated network
than it did when it was all manual thanks to growth.
HOWEVER, it seems job growth has been stagnate. More
significantly, wage growth is poor.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389715 is a reply to message #389706] |
Thu, 26 December 2019 16:51 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Wednesday, December 25, 2019 at 11:17:01 AM UTC-5, JimP wrote:
> The official numbers are mostly incorrect as people who have tried and
> given up, are not counted in the U.S.
Another uncounted factor are people who are forced to take a
lesser job than what they used to do. I knew a fellow who
worked for General Electric. He was squeezed out and ended
up working retail.
In addition, I think another uncounted factor is the cutback
in fringe benefits. While benefits varied quite a bit from
employer to employer, most white collar workers had some
benefits. These days, many employers have cut back on them.
Many workers have no benefits at all--they were converted
to contractor status. If they need to miss work they
don't get paid. They have to pay for their own health
insurance and retirement which employers used to cover.
Those expenses are substantial.
I could understand certain struggling employers cutting
back in order to keep the company going. But many
employers cry poverty when in fact they're earing
record profits.
As mentioned, the business page of the newspaper had two
articles on American Airlines. In one, they were bragging
about record profits. In another, they were crying poverty
to a judge to let them abrogate pension contractual
obligations.
Lots of companies do that. They juggle the books with
subsidiaries so as to look prosperous when it's helpful
or be impoverished when it's helpful. Worked get screwed.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389743 is a reply to message #389708] |
Fri, 27 December 2019 23:19 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 13:15:33 -0500
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> To get on topic: I wonder if the camping already happened in the
>> 1980s. For example when the newest TRS-80 or Apple ][ versions came
>> out.
>
> Certainly not in the UK, there were at times people waiting for the
> next model or some upgrade but they tended to have booked their slot in the
> queue early (with a deposit) and be waiting a call rather than queuing up
> outside the door.
>
>> If not, when started this?
>
> Long queues outside the cinema to see the latest blockbuster film on
> the opening night (or even in the opening week at the peak), camping
> overnight for Harrod's sale, Wimbledon tickets ...
>
> It's been going on for ages, it's just that it's only recently made
> it to electronic widgets.
>
A sad story - dentists in Phoenix got together to offer free dental work
over a couple of weekends, and people camped out overnight. It doesn’t seem
that people should not be able to afford to get their teeth fixed.
--
Pete
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389745 is a reply to message #389743] |
Sat, 28 December 2019 08:00 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:19:02 -0800, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 13:15:33 -0500
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> To get on topic: I wonder if the camping already happened in the
>>> 1980s. For example when the newest TRS-80 or Apple ][ versions came
>>> out.
>>
>> Certainly not in the UK, there were at times people waiting for the
>> next model or some upgrade but they tended to have booked their slot in the
>> queue early (with a deposit) and be waiting a call rather than queuing up
>> outside the door.
>>
>>> If not, when started this?
>>
>> Long queues outside the cinema to see the latest blockbuster film on
>> the opening night (or even in the opening week at the peak), camping
>> overnight for Harrod's sale, Wimbledon tickets ...
>>
>> It's been going on for ages, it's just that it's only recently made
>> it to electronic widgets.
>>
>
> A sad story - dentists in Phoenix got together to offer free dental work
> over a couple of weekends, and people camped out overnight. It doesn’t seem
> that people should not be able to afford to get their teeth fixed.
One of those things that Medicare doesn't cover (one of my objections
to "Medicare for all") and that is not a required coverage under the
ACA. In Arizona Medicaid does cover dental for children but for
adults it's only "emergency dental", not preventive.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389747 is a reply to message #389691] |
Sat, 28 December 2019 15:36 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On 26 Dec 2019 21:06:43 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-12-26, googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
>>> until the money runs out.
>>
>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>> electronics.
>
> Jesus, but you're an idiot.
The claim is around different media, but I haven't seen any proof that
will happen.
--
Jim
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389749 is a reply to message #389747] |
Sat, 28 December 2019 19:14 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
> On 26 Dec 2019 21:06:43 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2019-12-26, googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at
>>>> least until the money runs out.
>>>
>>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>> electronics.
>>
>> Jesus, but you're an idiot.
>
> The claim is around different media, but I haven't seen any proof that
> will happen.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/the-facts-on-the-green-new -deal/
Tweet:
I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward with
their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called “Carbon
Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars, Cows, Oil, Gas
& the Military – even if no other country would do the
same. Brilliant!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 9, 2019
Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming made similar claims when she warned in a
subcommittee hearing on Feb. 12 that the Green New Deal would “outlaw”
plane travel, gasoline, cars and “probably the entire U.S. military.”
I think it's fair to say, the source(s) substantiate the assertion of idiocy.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389750 is a reply to message #389749] |
Sat, 28 December 2019 23:13 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 26 Dec 2019 21:06:43 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2019-12-26, googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> > The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at
>>>> > least until the money runs out.
>>>>
>>>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>>> electronics.
>>>
>>> Jesus, but you're an idiot.
>>
>> The claim is around different media, but I haven't seen any proof that
>> will happen.
>
> https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/the-facts-on-the-green-new -deal/
>
> Tweet:
>
> I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward with
> their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called “Carbon
> Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars, Cows, Oil, Gas
> & the Military – even if no other country would do the
> same. Brilliant!
>
> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 9, 2019
>
>
> Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming made similar claims when she warned in a
> subcommittee hearing on Feb. 12 that the Green New Deal would “outlaw”
> plane travel, gasoline, cars and “probably the entire U.S. military.”
>
>
> I think it's fair to say, the source(s) substantiate the assertion of idiocy.
>
I think they should outlaw plane travel by bloviating politicians who fly
around the country mKing speeches about how we need to reduce our carbon
footprint. Try leading by example instead of “do as I say, not as I do.”
--
Pete
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389751 is a reply to message #389750] |
Sun, 29 December 2019 00:25 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 20:13:54 -0800, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 26 Dec 2019 21:06:43 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-12-26, googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> >> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at
>>>> >> least until the money runs out.
>>>> >
>>>> > You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>>> > electronics.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus, but you're an idiot.
>>>
>>> The claim is around different media, but I haven't seen any proof that
>>> will happen.
>>
>> https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/the-facts-on-the-green-new -deal/
>>
>> Tweet:
>>
>> I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward with
>> their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called “Carbon
>> Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars, Cows, Oil, Gas
>> & the Military – even if no other country would do the
>> same. Brilliant!
>>
>> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 9, 2019
>>
>>
>> Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming made similar claims when she warned in a
>> subcommittee hearing on Feb. 12 that the Green New Deal would “outlaw”
>> plane travel, gasoline, cars and “probably the entire U.S. military.”
>>
>>
>> I think it's fair to say, the source(s) substantiate the assertion of idiocy.
>>
>
> I think they should outlaw plane travel by bloviating politicians who fly
> around the country mKing speeches about how we need to reduce our carbon
> footprint. Try leading by example instead of “do as I say, not as I do.”
Also by certain ex-politician billionaires.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389752 is a reply to message #389750] |
Sun, 29 December 2019 07:54 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 26 Dec 2019 21:06:43 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2019-12-26, googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> >> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at
>>>> >> least until the money runs out.
>>>> >
>>>> > You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>>> > electronics.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus, but you're an idiot.
>>>
>>> The claim is around different media, but I haven't seen any proof
>>> that will happen.
>>
>> https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/the-facts-on-the-green-new -deal/
>>
>> Tweet:
>>
>> I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward
>> with their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called
>> “Carbon Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars,
>> Cows, Oil, Gas & the Military – even if no other country would do
>> the same. Brilliant!
>>
>> — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 9, 2019
>>
>>
>> Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming made similar claims when she warned in a
>> subcommittee hearing on Feb. 12 that the Green New Deal would
>> “outlaw” plane travel, gasoline, cars and “probably the entire
>> U.S. military.”
>>
>>
>> I think it's fair to say, the source(s) substantiate the assertion of
>> idiocy.
>
> I think they should outlaw plane travel by bloviating politicians who
> fly around the country mKing speeches about how we need to reduce our
> carbon footprint. Try leading by example instead of “do as I say, not
> as I do.”
Deep thoughts.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389755 is a reply to message #389707] |
Mon, 30 December 2019 17:27 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2019-12-25, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 22:31:33 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>> Yep no point in producing things nobody wants, that's not
>> meaningful. Try looking at all the things that need doing that nobody wants
>> to pay to have done and getting some community spirit going.
>
> You only need to tell people they want it. Like when the newest
> smartphone is about to hit the market many through their only two year
> old device away and camp out the night in front of the store. None of
> these really needs a new iPhone every two years, but they buy them like
> hot cake.
What I've found with iPhones is that the charging port wears out
mechanically, maybe not after two years, but certainly three or so -
eventually making the phone impossible to charge as it won't make
contact unless you sit there pressing the plug in continuously.
This certainly happened with my 6, and is starting to happen now with my
7. I think I'm going Android next.
This could well be a form of planned obsolescence by Apple. Wouldn't
surprise me.
Niklas
--
It's no worse than having the Pope celebrate the Eucharist while his assisting
Cardinals razz him about the mistakes he's making. This is sufficient to cause a
sizable nuclear explosion, which inevitably results from having assembled a
critical Mass. -- Mike Andrews
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389758 is a reply to message #389755] |
Tue, 31 December 2019 05:31 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 30 Dec 2019 22:27:46 GMT
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
> This certainly happened with my 6, and is starting to happen now with my
> 7. I think I'm going Android next.
Look for something with a USB-C socket it's by far the best
designed small connector currently in use.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389760 is a reply to message #389755] |
Tue, 31 December 2019 14:07 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
> On 2019-12-25, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 22:31:33 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep no point in producing things nobody wants, that's not
>>> meaningful. Try looking at all the things that need doing that nobody wants
>>> to pay to have done and getting some community spirit going.
>>
>> You only need to tell people they want it. Like when the newest
>> smartphone is about to hit the market many through their only two year
>> old device away and camp out the night in front of the store. None of
>> these really needs a new iPhone every two years, but they buy them like
>> hot cake.
>
> What I've found with iPhones is that the charging port wears out
> mechanically, maybe not after two years, but certainly three or so -
> eventually making the phone impossible to charge as it won't make
> contact unless you sit there pressing the plug in continuously.
I just got rid of my iPhone 3 and never had a problem. Unfortunately
T-Mobile wouldn’t let me trade it in for a free iPhone 10.
>
> This certainly happened with my 6, and is starting to happen now with my
> 7. I think I'm going Android next.
>
> This could well be a form of planned obsolescence by Apple. Wouldn't
> surprise me.
>
> Niklas
--
Pete
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389763 is a reply to message #389710] |
Tue, 31 December 2019 16:13 |
blmblm@myrealbox.com
Messages: 219
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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In article <8407123d-6843-4d45-9f6c-efaf44386915@googlegroups.com>,
googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
[ snip ]
> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
> electronics.
>
Ah yes. I missed you when you weren't participating, but I'm
remembering now why it seemed, um, duller. :-)?
(Mean-spirited thing to say this time of year, I guess. On the
whole I'm glad you're back!)
--
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389767 is a reply to message #389760] |
Wed, 01 January 2020 12:56 |
Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 2019-12-31, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
>>
>> What I've found with iPhones is that the charging port wears out
>> mechanically, maybe not after two years, but certainly three or so -
>> eventually making the phone impossible to charge as it won't make
>> contact unless you sit there pressing the plug in continuously.
>
> I just got rid of my iPhone 3 and never had a problem. Unfortunately
> T-Mobile wouldn’t let me trade it in for a free iPhone 10.
Yeah, the 3 had the old pre-Lightning connector. I never had any
problems with that either. It was rather large, though, so it's
understandable you'd want to develop something smaller.
Niklas
--
'Damn and blast British Telecom,' shouted Dirk, the words coming easily from
force of habit.
-- Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389769 is a reply to message #389767] |
Wed, 01 January 2020 13:54 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
> On 2019-12-31, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
>>>
>>> What I've found with iPhones is that the charging port wears out
>>> mechanically, maybe not after two years, but certainly three or so -
>>> eventually making the phone impossible to charge as it won't make
>>> contact unless you sit there pressing the plug in continuously.
>>
>> I just got rid of my iPhone 3 and never had a problem. Unfortunately
>> T-Mobile wouldn’t let me trade it in for a free iPhone 10.
>
> Yeah, the 3 had the old pre-Lightning connector. I never had any
> problems with that either. It was rather large, though, so it's
> understandable you'd want to develop something smaller.
>
> Niklas
I think the quest to ensmallen everything had gone crazy. For example, my
iPhone 10 is bigger than older models, but I have to constantly retype
stuff because my fingers are too fat for the on-screen keyboard. This iPad
is better, but still problematic.
--
Pete
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389772 is a reply to message #389712] |
Fri, 03 January 2020 12:57 |
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Originally posted by: googlegroups jmfbahciv
On Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 2:06:03 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 10:38:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700, Peter Flass
>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> > CBS News reported
>>>> >
>>>> > . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
>>>> > profession over the next decade.
>>>> >
>>>> > . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
>>>> > many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>>>> >
>>>> > . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
>>>> > because of the impact of automation
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>>>> >
>>>> > I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
>>>> > Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
>>>> > unwanted.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>>> labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
>>>> out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
>>>
>>> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
>>> until the money runs out.
>>
>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>> electronics.
>
> I suppose I should have included a sarcasm warning.
I tend to miss sarcasm when it's between the lines :-)
>
> However I am curious as to the reasoning by which it would eliminate
> all electronics--that is a criticism that I have not seen before.
1. Limiting transportation. AOC has stated that all airplanes will
be grounded. She also doesn't like trucking. No trucking will
result in no interest ($$$) for maintaining infrastructure.
This will eliminate knowledge of how to make and do all of that
work. This is just the beginning. You can think about it and
figure out a lot more scenarios of what might happen.
2. If transportation is limited, then the ability of people,
who do work for a living, to get to that work. Note that a lot
of daily work has to do with food, housing, sanitation, and
indoor plumbing with all the work required to provide the
parts, tools, lubrication, etc. This is physical work and
cannot be done via the internet. You can look around you and
see things and services which had to be created with physical
labor.
3. If transportation is limited, the tourist industry is
completely gone. Many governments depend on that infusion
of money to pay for the work which provides services to the
people who live in their jurisdictions.
4-n. there are many, many, many more. It's a living nightmare.
Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
a national security risk at the highest level.
/BAH
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389773 is a reply to message #389772] |
Fri, 03 January 2020 14:21 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> writes:
> On Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 2:06:03 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
>>>> until the money runs out.
>>>
>>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>> electronics.
>> =20
>> I suppose I should have included a sarcasm warning.
>
> I tend to miss sarcasm when it's between the lines :-)
>
>> =20
>> However I am curious as to the reasoning by which it would eliminate
>> all electronics--that is a criticism that I have not seen before.
>
> 1. Limiting transportation. AOC has stated that all airplanes will
> be grounded.
The Green New Deal doesn't say anything about airplanes
being grounded. Goofballs like you have made that up.
> She also doesn't like trucking.
Leaving aside the fact that Electric trucks are currently in
production (including long-haul), your statement is flat out
silly. Leaving aside that fact that the congresswoman has
never stated that "she doesn't like trucking"
Another lie from Barb (probably picked up from Faux news
or Rush limebag).
>
> 2. If transportation is limited, then the ability of people,
Transportation isn't limited. It's just using a different
form of energy instead of burning limited fossil fuels.
Rest of Barb's completely bogus points (she's obviously never
actually read the congressional resolution, but rather relies
on right-wing media for her false facts) elided.
It's right here: < https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolutio n/109/text>
read it before you make unsubstantiated assertions about it, please.
It starts (HINT: It doesn't ban trucks or air travel):
(1) it is the duty of the Federal Government to create a Green New Deal\u2014
(A) to achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions through a fair and just transition for all communities and workers;
(B) to create millions of good, high-wage jobs and ensure prosperity and economic security for all people of the United States;
(C) to invest in the infrastructure and industry of the United States to sustainably meet the challenges of the 21st century;
(D) to secure for all people of the United States for generations to come\u2014
(i) clean air and water;
(ii) climate and community resiliency;
(iii) healthy food;
(iv) access to nature; and
(v) a sustainable environment; and
(2) the goals described in subparagraphs (A) through (E) of paragraph (1) (referred to in this resolution as the \u201cGreen New Deal goals\u201d) should be accomplished through a 10-year national mobilization (referred to in this resolution as the \u201cGreen New Deal mobilization\u201d) that will require the following goals and projects\u2014
(A) building resiliency against climate change-related disasters, such as extreme weather, including by leveraging funding and providing investments for community-defined projects and strategies;
(B) repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including\u2014
(i) by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible;
(ii) by guaranteeing universal access to clean water;
(iii) by reducing the risks posed by climate impacts; and
(iv) by ensuring that any infrastructure bill considered by Congress addresses climate change;
(C) meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources, including\u2014
(i) by dramatically expanding and upgrading renewable power sources; and
(ii) by deploying new capacity;
(D) building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and \u201csmart\u201d power grids, and ensuring affordable access to electricity;
(E) upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximum energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification;
(F) spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible, including by expanding renewable energy manufacturing and investing in existing manufacturing and industry;
(G) working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to remove pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible, including\u2014
(i) by supporting family farming;
(ii) by investing in sustainable farming and land use practices that increase soil health; and
(iii) by building a more sustainable food system that ensures universal access to healthy food;
(H) overhauling transportation systems in the United States to remove pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in\u2014
(i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing;
(ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transit; and
(iii) high-speed rail;
(I) mitigating and managing the long-term adverse health, economic, and other effects of pollution and climate change, including by providing funding for community-defined projects and strategies;
(J) removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere and reducing pollution by restoring natural ecosystems through proven low-tech solutions that increase soil carbon storage, such as land preservation and afforestation;
(K) restoring and protecting threatened, endangered, and fragile ecosystems through locally appropriate and science-based projects that enhance biodiversity and support climate resiliency;
(L) cleaning up existing hazardous waste and abandoned sites, ensuring economic development and sustainability on those sites;
(M) identifying other emission and pollution sources and creating solutions to remove them; and
(N) promoting the international exchange of technology, expertise, products, funding, and services, with the aim of making the United States the international leader on climate action, and to help other countries achieve a Green New Deal;
(3) a Green New Deal must be developed through transparent and inclusive consultation, collaboration, and partnership with frontline and vulnerable communities, labor unions, worker cooperatives, civil society groups, academia, and businesses; and
(4) to achieve the Green New Deal goals and mobilization, a Green New Deal will require the following goals and projects\u2014
(A) providing and leveraging, in a way that ensures that the public receives appropriate ownership stakes and returns on investment, adequate capital (including through community grants, public banks, and other public financing), technical expertise, supporting policies, and other forms of assistance to communities, organizations, Federal, State, and local government agencies, and businesses working on the Green New Deal mobilization;
(B) ensuring that the Federal Government takes into account the complete environmental and social costs and impacts of emissions through\u2014
(i) existing laws;
(ii) new policies and programs; and
(iii) ensuring that frontline and vulnerable communities shall not be adversely affected;
(C) providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States, with a focus on frontline and vulnerable communities, so that all people of the United States may be full and equal participants in the Green New Deal mobilization;
(D) making public investments in the research and development of new clean and renewable energy technologies and industries;
(E) directing investments to spur economic development, deepen and diversify industry and business in local and regional economies, and build wealth and community ownership, while prioritizing high-quality job creation and economic, social, and environmental benefits in frontline and vulnerable communities, and deindustrialized communities, that may otherwise struggle with the transition away from greenhouse gas intensive industries;
(F) ensuring the use of democratic and participatory processes that are inclusive of and led by frontline and vulnerable communities and workers to plan, implement, and administer the Green New Deal mobilization at the local level;
(G) ensuring that the Green New Deal mobilization creates high-quality union jobs that pay prevailing wages, hires local workers, offers training and advancement opportunities, and guarantees wage and benefit parity for workers affected by the transition;
(H) guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States;
(I) strengthening and protecting the right of all workers to organize, unionize, and collectively bargain free of coercion, intimidation, and harassment;
(J) strengthening and enforcing labor, workplace health and safety, antidiscrimination, and wage and hour standards across all employers, industries, and sectors;
(K) enacting and enforcing trade rules, procurement standards, and border adjustments with strong labor and environmental protections\u2014
(i) to stop the transfer of jobs and pollution overseas; and
(ii) to grow domestic manufacturing in the United States;
(L) ensuring that public lands, waters, and oceans are protected and that eminent domain is not abused;
(M) obtaining the free, prior, and informed consent of indigenous peoples for all decisions that affect indigenous peoples and their traditional territories, honoring all treaties and agreements with indigenous peoples, and protecting and enforcing the sovereignty and land rights of indigenous peoples;
(N) ensuring a commercial environment where every businessperson is free from unfair competition and domination by domestic or international monopolies; and
(O) providing all people of the United States with\u2014
(i) high-quality health care;
(ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing;
(iii) economic security; and
(iv) clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and access to nature.
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389776 is a reply to message #389773] |
Fri, 03 January 2020 19:12 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
> googlegroups jmfbahciv <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 2:06:03 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>>> > The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at
>>>> > least until the money runs out.
>>>>
>>>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>>> electronics.
>>> =20
>>> I suppose I should have included a sarcasm warning.
>>
>> I tend to miss sarcasm when it's between the lines :-)
>>
>>> =20
>>> However I am curious as to the reasoning by which it would eliminate
>>> all electronics--that is a criticism that I have not seen before.
>>
>> 1. Limiting transportation. AOC has stated that all airplanes will
>> be grounded.
>
> The Green New Deal doesn't say anything about airplanes being
> grounded. Goofballs like you have made that up.
Here is at least one of the goofballs:
(politifact)
http://tinyurl.com/yxn4z3mr
The Democrats’ Green New Deal includes "working towards ending air
travel."
— Rick Scott on Monday, February 25th, 2019 in an Orlando Sentinel
op-ed
No, the Green New Deal doesn't aim to end air travel, as Florida
Sen. Rick Scott says
We've entered a strange new age where a big segment of the population
has decided their lies are better than facts.
So, BAH didn't make that up, she just decided it's okay to repeat lies.
So she posted here 3 or 4 times with the new id before she decided
to start trouble. Same idiot. The only thing that "works" is ignore.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389777 is a reply to message #389772] |
Fri, 03 January 2020 20:47 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
<jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, December 26, 2019 at 2:06:03 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 10:38:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 8:03:51 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:18:02 -0700, Peter Flass
>>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ><hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>>>> >> CBS News reported
>>>> >>
>>>> >> . Secretaries are projected to suffer the biggest job losses of any
>>>> >> profession over the next decade.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> . "Pink-collar" jobs, long a stepping stone into the middle class for
>>>> >> many women, are increasingly being handled by technology.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> . Globally, some 160 million women may need to find new occupations
>>>> >> because of the impact of automation
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-decimation-of-pink-collar-o ffice-jobs-like-secretaries-and-administrative-assistants/
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I remember when I began my job my office had five secretaries.
>>>> >> Now there are none. Typewriters are piled up in a corner
>>>> >> unwanted.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >It’s becoming a tsunami of lost jobs. Electric cars require half the
>>>> >labor as gas-powered cars. Self-driving trucks will put long-haul truckers
>>>> >out of work, etc. What is going to be done with all the excess workers?
>>>>
>>>> The "Green New Deal" with it's updated WPA will save us all, at least
>>>> until the money runs out.
>>>
>>> You are smoking weed,.....aren't you? The GND will eliminate all
>>> electronics.
>>
>> I suppose I should have included a sarcasm warning.
>
> I tend to miss sarcasm when it's between the lines :-)
>
>>
>> However I am curious as to the reasoning by which it would eliminate
>> all electronics--that is a criticism that I have not seen before.
>
> 1. Limiting transportation. AOC has stated that all airplanes will
> be grounded.
Has she? Where did she state that?
> She also doesn't like trucking. No trucking will
> result in no interest ($$$) for maintaining infrastructure.
> This will eliminate knowledge of how to make and do all of that
> work. This is just the beginning. You can think about it and
> figure out a lot more scenarios of what might happen.
What she's said is that she wants to build out rail to the point where
flying is not needed, and replace internal combustion with electric
power.
> 2. If transportation is limited, then the ability of people,
> who do work for a living, to get to that work. Note that a lot
> of daily work has to do with food, housing, sanitation, and
> indoor plumbing with all the work required to provide the
> parts, tools, lubrication, etc. This is physical work and
> cannot be done via the internet. You can look around you and
> see things and services which had to be created with physical
> labor.
If transportation is that limited everybody who doesn't live on a farm
is going to starve anyway. Of course whoever brought that situation
about will be lynched long before everybody starves.
> 3. If transportation is limited, the tourist industry is
> completely gone. Many governments depend on that infusion
> of money to pay for the work which provides services to the
> people who live in their jurisdictions.
If it's that limited. Not using fossil fuels does not mean that
transportation is impossible. There are electric trains that run over
300 mph.
>
> 4-n. there are many, many, many more. It's a living nightmare.
>
> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
> a national security risk at the highest level.
Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>
> /BAH
>
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389778 is a reply to message #389777] |
Fri, 03 January 2020 22:20 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>
> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
(home depot)
http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
Lighting has improved dramatically.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Office jobs eroding [message #389779 is a reply to message #389778] |
Fri, 03 January 2020 23:01 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Fri, 03 Jan 2020 22:20:28 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 09:57:40 -0800 (PST), googlegroups jmfbahciv
>> <jmfbah102162@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Note that the US no longer knows how to manufacture light bulbs.
>>> The last factory shut down last month. Losing that knowledge
>>> should bother people. I consider losing manufacturing knowledge
>>> a national security risk at the highest level.
>>
>> Actually the last major incandescent bulb factory shut down about 10
>> years ago. So what? Incandescent bulbs are a niche product.
>
> Looks like EcoSmart makes LED bulbs in the USA:
>
> (home depot)
>
> http://tinyurl.com/v8u4abg
So does Cree. And Philips has a number of lighting manufacturing
facilities in the US.
> I recently upgraded my kitchen lighting.
> The ceiling lights can be set to 5 different color temperature settings.
>
> Newer fixtures don't always come with bulbs, the lights are built in.
>
> Lighting has improved dramatically.
I would go so far as to say "amazingly". I really wish that the
politicians hadn't tried to rush it though--CF was utter crap and I am
very happy that it is dying the death.
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