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Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388503] Fri, 08 November 2019 11:04 Go to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
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There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of the
first cars ever had one.

At the beginning of this TV ad are computers explained. You know with
huge reels for loading and saving data and punched cards. But then also
the only two or three available home computers that year. I think I
spotted an Apple ][ and Tandy TRS-80.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4wSN6ApX3o>
--
Andreas

My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388504 is a reply to message #388503] Fri, 08 November 2019 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of the
> first cars ever had one.

Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the 'enter
estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for lack of use
and having fewer buttons.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388523 is a reply to message #388504] Fri, 08 November 2019 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of the
>> first cars ever had one.
>
> Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the 'enter
> estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for lack of use
> and having fewer buttons.
>

You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
the distance and time.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388532 is a reply to message #388523] Fri, 08 November 2019 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>> the first cars ever had one.
>>
>> Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>> 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>> lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>
>
> You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
> the distance and time.

Sure, but that feature went away long before GPS was popular (or
even available).

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388538 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorgen Grahn is currently offline  Jorgen Grahn
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On Sat, 2019-11-09, Huge wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
....
>>> You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>> the distance and time.
>
> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>
> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
> pisses me off.)

I don't mind that.

More annoying IMO is the habit of calling centralized position
tracking "GPS" -- as if the satellites receive information about where
your car, or child, or convincted criminal, is.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388539 is a reply to message #388538] Sat, 09 November 2019 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 9 Nov 2019 11:46:26 GMT
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:

> More annoying IMO is the habit of calling centralized position
> tracking "GPS" -- as if the satellites receive information about where
> your car, or child, or convincted criminal, is.

I have encountered people who believe that GPS works by the
satellites tracking the devices and sending the location information to
them because they can 'see' where they are.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388541 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>>> > the first cars ever had one.
>>>>
>>>> Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>>>> 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>>>> lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>> the distance and time.
>
> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>
> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
> pisses me off.)
>
>

GPS _is_ satellite navigation.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388542 is a reply to message #388541] Sat, 09 November 2019 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>>> >> the first cars ever had one.
>>>> >
>>>> > Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>>>> > 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>>>> > lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>>> the distance and time.
>>
>> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>>
>> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
>> pisses me off.)
>
> GPS _is_ satellite navigation.

Well, you certainly _navigate_ using signals from _satellites_.
So searching for the definition, I find:

A satellite navigation or satnav system is a system that uses satellites
to provide autonomous geo-spatial positioning. It allows small
electronic receivers to determine their location to high precision using
time signals transmitted along a line of sight by radio from satellites.

And then we have:

The Global Positioning System, originally NAVSTAR GPS, is a
satellite-based radionavigation system owned by the United States
government and operated by the United States Air Force.

What do you know, those "Americans" appear to have something right.

I suppose cell towers could be used but the tower would have to
broadcast it's location. I did a quick search and I get the impression
that the cell tower locators use maps from the providers.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388543 is a reply to message #388541] Sat, 09 November 2019 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:19:04 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> GPS _is_ satellite navigation.

Nope, it's one component of navigation namely positioning, it needs
to be coupled with mapping and route finding to make a navigation system.
There is also GLONASS so satellite navigation covers more than GPS -
besides you can pronounce it splat-nav when irritated :)

All that being said my ears are not unduly offended by GPS being
used as an abbreviation for "GPS navigation system" - there are far greater
irritants in this world such as hearing an American pronounce van Gogh and
I'm not even Dutch!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388546 is a reply to message #388543] Sat, 09 November 2019 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 8:00:02 AM UTC-7, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:19:04 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> GPS _is_ satellite navigation.

> Nope, it's one component of navigation namely positioning, it needs
> to be coupled with mapping and route finding to make a navigation system.
> There is also GLONASS so satellite navigation covers more than GPS -
> besides you can pronounce it splat-nav when irritated :)

In general, most satellite navigation system used by people in the Western
industrialized world will obtain its position information from the Global
Positioning System, although some have the ability to use other services, such
as GLONASS, Galileo, or Beidou as well.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388548 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: nobody

On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>>> > the first cars ever had one.
>>>>
>>>> Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>>>> 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>>>> lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>> the distance and time.
>
> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>
> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
> pisses me off.)

Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
map...and know how to fold it back up.)

I had (still have, but it's out of date) a road map application where
you manually tell it where you are, where you're going, how many hours
a day you want to drive, how far you could go between stops, etc., and
it would give you a route and itinerary for fuel stops and layovers.
It even had cost estimating for food, fuel, and lodging. "Modern"
satnav is better in a way, but the ones I've seen don't handle
multi-day trip planning at all.

That program amazed me for one reason - it was written to run on an
80486 PC of the day (say 66MHz and 4Mb RAM), but it could find good
solutions to the traveling salesman problem for up to 43 stops in
about fifteen seconds. (I found the limit experimentally when I tried
to plan a lower-48 capital city tour. So close....)
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388549 is a reply to message #388546] Sat, 09 November 2019 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:50:27 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 8:00:02 AM UTC-7, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:19:04 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> GPS _is_ satellite navigation.
>
>> Nope, it's one component of navigation namely positioning, it needs
>> to be coupled with mapping and route finding to make a navigation system.
>> There is also GLONASS so satellite navigation covers more than GPS -
>> besides you can pronounce it splat-nav when irritated :)
>
> In general, most satellite navigation system used by people in the Western
> industrialized world will obtain its position information from the Global
> Positioning System, although some have the ability to use other services, such
> as GLONASS, Galileo, or Beidou as well.

It will tell you a latitude, longitude, and altitude. Without a map
or chart that is not terribly useful information.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388555 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: drb

> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
> screen is a PITA.

The so-called cartography in gmaps and the like is abysmal. Bad font
size choices. Bad quantity-of-detail choices. No contrast. Missing
scale half the time. No key. Etc.

De
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388556 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
> screen is a PITA.

Yep paper maps are much better for planning, splat-navs are for
when you want to delegate the route planning to code. I find them most
useful for navigating *out* of unfamiliar cities and finding places where
the nearest road sign is miles away.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388558 is a reply to message #388555] Sat, 09 November 2019 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 12:44:57 -0600
drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) wrote:

>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>> screen is a PITA.
>
> The so-called cartography in gmaps and the like is abysmal. Bad font
> size choices. Bad quantity-of-detail choices. No contrast. Missing
> scale half the time. No key. Etc.

You can add to that a complete lack of clue as to the logical
arrangement of the roads which makes the voice directions very iffy.
Sometimes when driving on minor roads a junction crossing a major road will
not be mentioned at all, and the poor cartography means that the map shows
the major road as nearly invisible line, pretty clearly the map has the
priorities wrong. Other times there will be an instruction to turn when
what is meant is "follow the road past the junction on the bend". I have
learned that the word slight preceding left or right means pay very
careful attention because the map software is probably confused.

Still all of this is simply a modern incarnation of a problem
familiar to anyone who spends enough time using maps - they're always
wrong.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388568 is a reply to message #388543] Sat, 09 November 2019 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:19:04 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> GPS _is_ satellite navigation.
>
> Nope, it's one component of navigation namely positioning, it needs
> to be coupled with mapping and route finding to make a navigation system.
> There is also GLONASS so satellite navigation covers more than GPS -
> besides you can pronounce it splat-nav when irritated :)
>
> All that being said my ears are not unduly offended by GPS being
> used as an abbreviation for "GPS navigation system" - there are far greater
> irritants in this world such as hearing an American pronounce van Gogh and
> I'm not even Dutch!
>

Oh, you mean Vinnie Van Go?

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388569 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 11/8/2019 11:13 PM, Huge wrote:
>
>> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
>> pisses me off.)
>
> "Global Positioning System" is an accurate generic, but too much of a
> mouthful. We tend to think of "GPS" as a generic that includes all the
> systems ("New and Improved!! Now With Added GLONASS!"), like calling
> all vacuum cleaners "hoovers".
>

And Monica Lewinsky.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388570 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-11-09, Scott <nobody@example.org> wrote:
>> On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> >> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>>>> >> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>>> >>> the first cars ever had one.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>>>> >> 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>>>> >> lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>>> > the distance and time.
>>>
>>> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>>>
>>> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
>>> pisses me off.)
>>
>> Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
>> GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
>> GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
>> map...and know how to fold it back up.)
>
> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
> screen is a PITA.
>

+1

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388573 is a reply to message #388570] Sat, 09 November 2019 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 15:02:47 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2019-11-09, Scott <nobody@example.org> wrote:
>>> On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> >>> On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>>>> >>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>>> >>>> the first cars ever had one.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>>>> >>> 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>>>> >>> lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>>> >> the distance and time.
>>>>
>>>> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>>>>
>>>> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
>>>> pisses me off.)
>>>
>>> Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
>>> GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
>>> GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
>>> map...and know how to fold it back up.)
>>
>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>> screen is a PITA.
>>
>
> +1

For trip planning I've got a 4 foot screen. The tiny screen is the
one I carry with me--it's not as useful as a topo map for figuring out
what scenery I'm looking at but it does just fine for getting around
most of the time.

And it's exceptionally nice under inclement conditions.

A few years ago there was a snowstorm in October when the leaves were
still out that killed the power in most of Connecticut and a major
part of MA, and knocked down a very large number of trees (I was on
the road when the power failed, and it was one of the the two
spookiest experiences of my life, I wish I'd thought to put the phone
on the dash and record). Anyway, some time after a friend of mine who
doesn't drive asked me to check up on a friend of his whose phone was
out. I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up. So I
plugged it into Google Maps and told it to take me there. So, got to
a dead tree--told it the street was blocked, find me another route. So
it did. Half a dozen or so dead trees later I got to where she lived.
She was fine, but no power and her cell phone battery had died.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388574 is a reply to message #388503] Sat, 09 November 2019 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:

> On 2019-11-09, Scott <nobody@example.org> wrote:
>> On 9 Nov 2019 05:13:49 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 14:15:10 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > > On Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:44 -0500
>>>> > > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> There is a 1978 TV ad for the Cadillac Seville trip computer. One of
>>>> > >> the first cars ever had one.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Modern ones are almost identical apart from not having the
>>>> > > 'enter estimated distance' feature, which I suspect was dropped for
>>>> > > lack of use and having fewer buttons.
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > You don’t need it with GPS, when you enter your destination it calculates
>>>> > the distance and time.
>>>
>>> No it doesn't. GPS just tells you where you are.
>>>
>>> (The American habit of referring to satellite navigation as "GPS"
>>> pisses me off.)
>>
>> Also the difference of doing automatic routing and navigation without
>> GPS inputs. The map app on my phone is utterly worthless without both
>> GPS and a network connection. (Show of hands if you can read a paper
>> map...and know how to fold it back up.)
>
> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
> screen is a PITA.

I do my "large scale navigation" at home.

On my large monitor.

27" 3840x2160. All the paper maps are recycled.

I prefer my maps up to date and telling me about traffic and which turn
to take next. On the road, zoom out works fine.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388586 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 03:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
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Senior Member
Huge wrote:

> when the satnav's preferred route is closed [...] it nonetheless
> keeps trying to direct you back onto the closed road

Online satnavs are usually aware of road closures within a few minutes,
or via crowd-sourcing can spot abnormally slow traffic before actual
closures are in place.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388591 is a reply to message #388558] Sun, 10 November 2019 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 20:04:06 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 09 Nov 2019 12:44:57 -0600
> drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) wrote:
>
>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps
>>> for large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on
>>> a tiny screen is a PITA.
>>
>> The so-called cartography in gmaps and the like is abysmal. Bad font
>> size choices. Bad quantity-of-detail choices. No contrast. Missing
>> scale half the time. No key. Etc.
>
> You can add to that a complete lack of clue as to the logical
> arrangement of the roads which makes the voice directions very iffy.
> Sometimes when driving on minor roads a junction crossing a major road
> will not be mentioned at all, and the poor cartography means that the
> map shows the major road as nearly invisible line, pretty clearly the
> map has the priorities wrong. Other times there will be an instruction
> to turn when what is meant is "follow the road past the junction on
> the bend". I have learned that the word slight preceding left or right
> means pay very careful attention because the map software is probably
> confused.
>
> Still all of this is simply a modern incarnation of a problem
> familiar to anyone who spends enough time using maps - they're always
> wrong.
>
Especially in Ireland! But the locals won't tell you that there's no
bridge and that the ford is not navigable by bicycle (The map was
possibly last updated under British rule!)


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388592 is a reply to message #388586] Sun, 10 November 2019 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 08:41:15 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

> Huge wrote:
>
>> when the satnav's preferred route is closed [...] it nonetheless
>> keeps trying to direct you back onto the closed road
>
> Online satnavs are usually aware of road closures within a few minutes,
> or via crowd-sourcing can spot abnormally slow traffic before actual
> closures are in place.

Google Maps does that. The one that comes in a Ford not so much.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388593 is a reply to message #388573] Sun, 10 November 2019 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.

What _is_ wrong with people these days?

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388594 is a reply to message #388593] Sun, 10 November 2019 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.

> What _is_ wrong with people these days?

Of course, were you sitting at home with Google Street View - or if his
directions didn't include references to landmarks, even with just a map - one
could follow the directions *on a map* and get the approximate address that way
if communications didn't seem to be effective.

John Savard
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388595 is a reply to message #388594] Sun, 10 November 2019 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 04:25:28 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>
>> What _is_ wrong with people these days?
>
> Of course, were you sitting at home with Google Street View - or if his
> directions didn't include references to landmarks, even with just a map - one
> could follow the directions *on a map* and get the approximate address that way
> if communications didn't seem to be effective.

I was in his house. Note that he was 97 years old and I have learned
from bitter experience that trying to do anything the _easy_ way with
him tended to end badly.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388596 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-11-10, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> Huge wrote:
>>
>>> when the satnav's preferred route is closed [...] it nonetheless
>>> keeps trying to direct you back onto the closed road
>>
>> Online satnavs are usually aware of road closures within a few minutes,
>> or via crowd-sourcing can spot abnormally slow traffic before actual
>> closures are in place.
>
> I've been using SatNav since the Tomtom ONE XL came out. I have
> builtin SatNavs in all three cars, I own a Google Pixel with Google
> Maps and Waze installed on it. My wife has Apple Maps installed on
> her iPad. I usually plan routes to new places on my desktop with a 27"
> monitor. I am reasonably familiar (*) with what satnavs do. Nonethless,
> on occasion, paper maps are better. OK, not that frequently, but when
> they are better, they are a *lot* better.
>
> (* Britspeak for "I am intimately familiar with how they work.")
>

We used to use a dedicated unit, but now it’s quicker and easier to just
use the iPhone. The maps are more up to date, too. I was looking at
updating the maps on my old system and discovered it would be almost as
cheap to boy a whole new unit.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388597 is a reply to message #388595] Sun, 10 November 2019 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 04:25:28 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>>> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>>> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>>> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>>
>>> What _is_ wrong with people these days?
>>
>> Of course, were you sitting at home with Google Street View - or if his
>> directions didn't include references to landmarks, even with just a map - one
>> could follow the directions *on a map* and get the approximate address that way
>> if communications didn't seem to be effective.
>
> I was in his house. Note that he was 97 years old and I have learned
> from bitter experience that trying to do anything the _easy_ way with
> him tended to end badly.
>

It amazes me that back in his youth, at least in the US, roads didn’t even
have names, to say nothing oh house numbers. An address might be “three
miles out of town on the road to Greenfield Center.” It now makes trying to
find old landmarks a bitch.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388598 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:

> On 2019-11-09, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>
> [snippage]
>
>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>> screen is a PITA.
>>
>> I do my "large scale navigation" at home.
>>
>> On my large monitor.
>>
>> 27" 3840x2160. All the paper maps are recycled.
>>
>> I prefer my maps up to date and telling me about traffic and which turn
>> to take next. On the road, zoom out works fine.
>
> Except it doesn't. And when the satnav's preferred route is closed
> because some knobhead has had an incompetence (my name for what
> most people call an "accident") and it nonetheless keeps trying to
> direct you back onto the closed road, a paper map is simply better.

Sorry, Huge, that's just wrong.

I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
all.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388599 is a reply to message #388597] Sun, 10 November 2019 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 06:02:27 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 04:25:28 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> > I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>>> > told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>>> > take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>>> > his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>>>
>>>> What _is_ wrong with people these days?
>>>
>>> Of course, were you sitting at home with Google Street View - or if his
>>> directions didn't include references to landmarks, even with just a map - one
>>> could follow the directions *on a map* and get the approximate address that way
>>> if communications didn't seem to be effective.
>>
>> I was in his house. Note that he was 97 years old and I have learned
>> from bitter experience that trying to do anything the _easy_ way with
>> him tended to end badly.
>>
>
> It amazes me that back in his youth, at least in the US, roads didn’t even
> have names, to say nothing oh house numbers. An address might be “three
> miles out of town on the road to Greenfield Center.” It now makes trying to
> find old landmarks a bitch.

Note that he grew up in Brooklyn--roads most assuredly had names and
houses had numbers.

One time we took a Google Maps tour of his neighborhood. He was able
to identify the building where he lived, pointing out the balcony to
the apartment, and we were able to follow the route by which he walked
to school. According to him not a whole lot had changed.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388600 is a reply to message #388598] Sun, 10 November 2019 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 08:10:31 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2019-11-09, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>
>> [snippage]
>>
>>>> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> screen is a PITA.
>>>
>>> I do my "large scale navigation" at home.
>>>
>>> On my large monitor.
>>>
>>> 27" 3840x2160. All the paper maps are recycled.
>>>
>>> I prefer my maps up to date and telling me about traffic and which turn
>>> to take next. On the road, zoom out works fine.
>>
>> Except it doesn't. And when the satnav's preferred route is closed
>> because some knobhead has had an incompetence (my name for what
>> most people call an "accident") and it nonetheless keeps trying to
>> direct you back onto the closed road, a paper map is simply better.
>
> Sorry, Huge, that's just wrong.
>
> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
> all.

The one that annoys me (which they seem to have fixed) is that I am
going from A to B and I'm given a choice of routes. For whatever
reason I choose to take one that is not the shortest. So I've been
driving five minutes and the thing decides to offer me the shortest
route and I have to do something to prevent it, which, by the time I
get to a point where I can take my eyes off the road long enough to
monkey with the thing has long since accepted the default.

But sometimes it does things that are just plain _dumb_. Like there's
one place where it insists that one turn right. So one turns left.
And then make an immediate left. What one has done is turn off a
road, into an intersection, reversed course in that intersection, and
returned to the road that one had just left, going in the same
direction one was originally going.

And sometimes the thing's command of English is "interesting". "Take
lane marked for Hartford Court". The marking is "Hartford, CT". And
one that actually makes sense when you see the street layout, but
still . . . "Keep left to turn right"
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388602 is a reply to message #388600] Sun, 10 November 2019 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 08:10:31 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2019-11-09, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>> [snippage]
>>>
>>>> > [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> > large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> > screen is a PITA.
>>>>
>>>> I do my "large scale navigation" at home.
>>>>
>>>> On my large monitor.
>>>>
>>>> 27" 3840x2160. All the paper maps are recycled.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer my maps up to date and telling me about traffic and which turn
>>>> to take next. On the road, zoom out works fine.
>>>
>>> Except it doesn't. And when the satnav's preferred route is closed
>>> because some knobhead has had an incompetence (my name for what
>>> most people call an "accident") and it nonetheless keeps trying to
>>> direct you back onto the closed road, a paper map is simply better.
>>
>> Sorry, Huge, that's just wrong.
>>
>> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
>> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
>> all.
>
> The one that annoys me (which they seem to have fixed) is that I am
> going from A to B and I'm given a choice of routes. For whatever
> reason I choose to take one that is not the shortest. So I've been
> driving five minutes and the thing decides to offer me the shortest
> route and I have to do something to prevent it, which, by the time I
> get to a point where I can take my eyes off the road long enough to
> monkey with the thing has long since accepted the default.

Well, you said it's fixed so I'm not sure what you mean.

When I leave my house I'm often directed to a turn I just don't like.
So, I ignore the directions and go the way I want. Google maps
displays "recalculating". Sometimes it wants me to go back the way
it said. I just keep driving until it picks up on my new route.

No need to stop and monkey with anything.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388603 is a reply to message #388599] Sun, 10 November 2019 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 06:02:27 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 04:25:28 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> > On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>>> >> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>>> >> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>>> >> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>>>>
>>>> > What _is_ wrong with people these days?
>>>>
>>>> Of course, were you sitting at home with Google Street View - or if his
>>>> directions didn't include references to landmarks, even with just a map - one
>>>> could follow the directions *on a map* and get the approximate address that way
>>>> if communications didn't seem to be effective.
>>>
>>> I was in his house. Note that he was 97 years old and I have learned
>>> from bitter experience that trying to do anything the _easy_ way with
>>> him tended to end badly.
>>>
>>
>> It amazes me that back in his youth, at least in the US, roads didn’t even
>> have names, to say nothing oh house numbers. An address might be “three
>> miles out of town on the road to Greenfield Center.” It now makes trying to
>> find old landmarks a bitch.
>
> Note that he grew up in Brooklyn--roads most assuredly had names and
> houses had numbers.

I grew up in the Bronx.
#5 Hollers Estate to be exact.
Only dirt roads, no names to any of them.

> One time we took a Google Maps tour of his neighborhood. He was able
> to identify the building where he lived, pointing out the balcony to
> the apartment, and we were able to follow the route by which he walked
> to school. According to him not a whole lot had changed.

Hollers Estate is long gone. Everything is changed.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3974+Boston+Rd,+The+Bronx, +NY+10475/@40.8813089,-73.8342767,266m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4 !1s0x89c28cd1a9fdf67d:0xac20c9869fce2573!8m2!3d40.8838431!4d -73.8331167

Lived pretty much in the center of that. Only about 5% of that was
there when I lived there. There was a big lake right in the middle.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388604 is a reply to message #388600] Sun, 10 November 2019 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 08:10:31 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2019-11-09, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>> [snippage]
>>>
>>>> > [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> > large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> > screen is a PITA.
>>>>
>>>> I do my "large scale navigation" at home.
>>>>
>>>> On my large monitor.
>>>>
>>>> 27" 3840x2160. All the paper maps are recycled.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer my maps up to date and telling me about traffic and which turn
>>>> to take next. On the road, zoom out works fine.
>>>
>>> Except it doesn't. And when the satnav's preferred route is closed
>>> because some knobhead has had an incompetence (my name for what
>>> most people call an "accident") and it nonetheless keeps trying to
>>> direct you back onto the closed road, a paper map is simply better.
>>
>> Sorry, Huge, that's just wrong.
>>
>> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
>> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
>> all.
>
> The one that annoys me (which they seem to have fixed) is that I am
> going from A to B and I'm given a choice of routes. For whatever
> reason I choose to take one that is not the shortest. So I've been
> driving five minutes and the thing decides to offer me the shortest
> route and I have to do something to prevent it, which, by the time I
> get to a point where I can take my eyes off the road long enough to
> monkey with the thing has long since accepted the default.
>
> But sometimes it does things that are just plain _dumb_. Like there's
> one place where it insists that one turn right. So one turns left.
> And then make an immediate left. What one has done is turn off a
> road, into an intersection, reversed course in that intersection, and
> returned to the road that one had just left, going in the same
> direction one was originally going.
>
> And sometimes the thing's command of English is "interesting". "Take
> lane marked for Hartford Court". The marking is "Hartford, CT". And
> one that actually makes sense when you see the street layout, but
> still . . . "Keep left to turn right"
>

Fortunately I’ve never seen any if this, although I do sometimes wonder
what it thinks it’s doing.

--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388605 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2019 6:22 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>>
>> What _is_ wrong with people these days?
>>
> Where I grew up, there wasn't any address. The post went to "Rural
> Delivery" and the postman went by name painted on the mailbox. I
> gather we still have some Indian reservations where they don't have
> house numbers.

I think the Navajo reservation just assigned house numbers so 911 would
work properly.

>
> Eventually they assigned a house number to my folks. A few years
> later, they revoked everybody's house numbers and gave them new
> numbers. In the city where I am they increment the number by 4 every
> 40 feet (the lots are 40 feet wide). I guess when the "street" is 25
> miles long, the numbers get out of hand (do they need to survey to
> determine where the 40 foot increments go? for every dirt road in the
> county?). I could never remember what my folks' "new" address was. If
> I know where I'm going, I drive by landmarks rather than numbers.
>



--
Pete
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388606 is a reply to message #388603] Sun, 10 November 2019 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:41:24 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 06:02:27 -0700, Peter Flass
>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 04:25:28 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
>>>> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> >> On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 3:32:59 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>> I asked him for her address. He started giving directions. I
>>>> >>> told him that I needed the _address_, directions were just going to
>>>> >>> take me to the first tree across the road. Finally he got it through
>>>> >>> his head that I really needed the address and he looked it up.
>>>> >
>>>> >> What _is_ wrong with people these days?
>>>> >
>>>> > Of course, were you sitting at home with Google Street View - or if his
>>>> > directions didn't include references to landmarks, even with just a map - one
>>>> > could follow the directions *on a map* and get the approximate address that way
>>>> > if communications didn't seem to be effective.
>>>>
>>>> I was in his house. Note that he was 97 years old and I have learned
>>>> from bitter experience that trying to do anything the _easy_ way with
>>>> him tended to end badly.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It amazes me that back in his youth, at least in the US, roads didn’t even
>>> have names, to say nothing oh house numbers. An address might be “three
>>> miles out of town on the road to Greenfield Center.” It now makes trying to
>>> find old landmarks a bitch.
>>
>> Note that he grew up in Brooklyn--roads most assuredly had names and
>> houses had numbers.
>
> I grew up in the Bronx.
> #5 Hollers Estate to be exact.
> Only dirt roads, no names to any of them.

Fine, he was lying to me the whole time. If you have the fortune to
end up the same place he did then you can tell him.

>> One time we took a Google Maps tour of his neighborhood. He was able
>> to identify the building where he lived, pointing out the balcony to
>> the apartment, and we were able to follow the route by which he walked
>> to school. According to him not a whole lot had changed.
>
> Hollers Estate is long gone. Everything is changed.
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/3974+Boston+Rd,+The+Bronx, +NY+10475/@40.8813089,-73.8342767,266m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4 !1s0x89c28cd1a9fdf67d:0xac20c9869fce2573!8m2!3d40.8838431!4d -73.8331167
>
> Lived pretty much in the center of that. Only about 5% of that was
> there when I lived there. There was a big lake right in the middle.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388607 is a reply to message #388602] Sun, 10 November 2019 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:20:24 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 08:10:31 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2019-11-09, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>> [snippage]
>>>>
>>>> >> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
>>>> >> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
>>>> >> screen is a PITA.
>>>> >
>>>> > I do my "large scale navigation" at home.
>>>> >
>>>> > On my large monitor.
>>>> >
>>>> > 27" 3840x2160. All the paper maps are recycled.
>>>> >
>>>> > I prefer my maps up to date and telling me about traffic and which turn
>>>> > to take next. On the road, zoom out works fine.
>>>>
>>>> Except it doesn't. And when the satnav's preferred route is closed
>>>> because some knobhead has had an incompetence (my name for what
>>>> most people call an "accident") and it nonetheless keeps trying to
>>>> direct you back onto the closed road, a paper map is simply better.
>>>
>>> Sorry, Huge, that's just wrong.
>>>
>>> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
>>> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
>>> all.
>>
>> The one that annoys me (which they seem to have fixed) is that I am
>> going from A to B and I'm given a choice of routes. For whatever
>> reason I choose to take one that is not the shortest. So I've been
>> driving five minutes and the thing decides to offer me the shortest
>> route and I have to do something to prevent it, which, by the time I
>> get to a point where I can take my eyes off the road long enough to
>> monkey with the thing has long since accepted the default.
>
> Well, you said it's fixed so I'm not sure what you mean.
>
> When I leave my house I'm often directed to a turn I just don't like.
> So, I ignore the directions and go the way I want. Google maps
> displays "recalculating". Sometimes it wants me to go back the way
> it said. I just keep driving until it picks up on my new route.
>
> No need to stop and monkey with anything.

I'm at work. I want to go to Jane's house, where I've never been
before. Google shows me three possible routes. I pick one. It's not
the shortest one because the shortest one goes through an intersection
that I prefer to avoid. So I start driving. It tells me "alternative
route detected" or words to that effect and if I don't do something
then it takes the alternative route and I end up at the intersection I
want to avoid.

It seems that they've changed it to default to whatever the originally
chosen route was now.
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388608 is a reply to message #388598] Sun, 10 November 2019 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:

> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
> all.

I must ask someone who has this newfangled nav stuff to try it here!

75 years ago, my gravel road had a nearby crossroad with another.
Fifty years ago, when I moved here, a half-mile bit of road, from the
crossroad to a nearby hardtop road, had been completely abandoned. 30
years ago, that bit was privatized and 2 houses built in the middle of
it, one 1/4 mile from my end, the other at the far end. 20 years ago,
my road was "upgraded" so the crossroad as such disappeared. Now
there's just a sharp curve with a smaller (because less used)
branch. And a private lane that ends in the 30-years-new house's
dooryard.

Google maps still shows the crossroad and now-private bit as active
roads, presumably based on official WW II era topo maps.

I must get a friend to ask for the satnav route from my door to
Crousetown and see if it sends me up my neighbor's driveway.

Oh, and the only time in 50 years that I had to call an ambulance,
their satnav directed them to enter my road from the north end.
Result was 5+ miles of thrashng over ruts and ridges in frozen
Ferbruary slush and frozen mud. Departing for the hospital, they
were overjoyed to learn that we were only 1/2 a mile from the pavement
over a much better maintained/ploughed segment of my road.

--
Michael Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388609 is a reply to message #388503] Sun, 10 November 2019 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 9 Nov 2019 18:05:32 GMT, Huge wrote:
>
> [Holds hand in air]But then, I'm old. Indeed, I prefer paper maps for
> large scale navigation. Trying to look at a 200 mile route on a tiny
> screen is a PITA.

Why would you plan a route in the first place? From what I understand you
enter the address of a brothel^Wrestaurant into the GPS device and start
driving. It should have calculated the optimal route and guides you.
--
Andreas

My random thoughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/
Re: Cadillac Seville trip computer from 1978 [message #388611 is a reply to message #388608] Sun, 10 November 2019 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Mike Spencer <mspencer@tallships.ca> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I've navigated around many closed roads with the GPS.
>> It can't be beat. Stopping to read a paper map makes no sense to me at
>> all.
>
> I must ask someone who has this newfangled nav stuff to try it here!
>
> 75 years ago, my gravel road had a nearby crossroad with another.
> Fifty years ago, when I moved here, a half-mile bit of road, from the
> crossroad to a nearby hardtop road, had been completely abandoned. 30
> years ago, that bit was privatized and 2 houses built in the middle of
> it, one 1/4 mile from my end, the other at the far end. 20 years ago,
> my road was "upgraded" so the crossroad as such disappeared. Now
> there's just a sharp curve with a smaller (because less used)
> branch. And a private lane that ends in the 30-years-new house's
> dooryard.
>
> Google maps still shows the crossroad and now-private bit as active
> roads, presumably based on official WW II era topo maps.
>
> I must get a friend to ask for the satnav route from my door to
> Crousetown and see if it sends me up my neighbor's driveway.
>
> Oh, and the only time in 50 years that I had to call an ambulance,
> their satnav directed them to enter my road from the north end.
> Result was 5+ miles of thrashng over ruts and ridges in frozen
> Ferbruary slush and frozen mud. Departing for the hospital, they
> were overjoyed to learn that we were only 1/2 a mile from the pavement
> over a much better maintained/ploughed segment of my road.

Wow, I used to live in the sticks, (in the Bronx) but not so much anymore.

Anyone can submit map updates to Google so any issues can be
solved.

--
Dan Espen
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