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MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386683] Wed, 04 September 2019 14:19 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: messdrivers

We're a little late on this release due to the sheer amount of changes, but it's finally here.

Apple II changes include:
- Support for Sirius JoyPort (great for Total Replay!)
- Support for the 4Play 4-player joystick card
- Support for raw and 2MG hard disk images in addition to CHD (also great for Total Replay!)
- Support for the original gameport-connected ComputerEyes video digitizer on II and II Plus.
* You can feed it any arbitrary .PNG file of any size and color depth and get a decent HGR representation. It's not as good as the modern programs that can convert things to HGR and DHR, but it's fun to play with.
- Fixed a IIgs timing issue so that 3200 color pictures work, including SHOW3200 and DreamGrafix "Slow But Cool 3200" mode.

More fun Apple II goodies next time including ComputerEyes/2 support. That's the slot card version which gets better-quality scans and supports double hi-res.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386689 is a reply to message #386683] Wed, 04 September 2019 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

MAME SUCKS! Unless you are an I.T. I'll never get a round tuit. :-(
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386812 is a reply to message #386689] Sun, 08 September 2019 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners

On Wednesday, 4 September 2019 21:25:37 UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> MAME SUCKS! Unless you are an I.T. I'll never get a round tuit. :-(

Yay!! - Raw HD / 2MG image support is the one thing that was stopping me from using MAME on my setup.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386819 is a reply to message #386689] Mon, 09 September 2019 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: messdrivers

On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> MAME SUCKS! Unless you are an I.T. I'll never get a round tuit. :-(

If you're on Windows, look at BletchMAME, which uses our new hooks to completely submerge MAME underneath a thick creamy layer of Windows GUI.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386847 is a reply to message #386819] Mon, 09 September 2019 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:22:04 AM UTC-7, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>> MAME SUCKS! Unless you are an I.T. I'll never get a round tuit. :-(
>
> If you're on Windows, look at BletchMAME, which uses our new hooks to completely submerge MAME underneath a thick creamy layer of Windows GUI.

Thanks. I'll check it (BletchMAME v1.1) out and get back to you as to whether I like it or not.

IIRC, I tried it (BletchMAME v1.0) when I first got MAME, and did not like it, then.

I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything useful with it. :-|
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386848 is a reply to message #386847] Mon, 09 September 2019 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: messdrivers

> I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything useful with it. :-|

Eh, we've successfully taught life-long Mac users to compile and play MAME. You're at least that smart, right?
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386857 is a reply to message #386847] Tue, 10 September 2019 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 5:51:36 PM UTC-7, James Davis wrote:
> On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:22:04 AM UTC-7, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>> MAME SUCKS! Unless you are an I.T. I'll never get a round tuit. :-(
>>
>> If you're on Windows, look at BletchMAME, which uses our new hooks to completely submerge MAME underneath a thick creamy layer of Windows GUI.
>
> Thanks. I'll check it (BletchMAME v1.1) out and get back to you as to whether I like it or not.
>
> IIRC, I tried it (BletchMAME v1.0) when I first got MAME, and did not like it, then.
>
> I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything useful with it. :-|

I do not see much difference between BletchMAME v1.0 and v1.1. Most of the menu items are greyed out, so unusable. The only thing good about it is that it tells you what you are missing when you try to run/emulate any particular machine. (Aesthetically, I like the colorful MAME windows better.)
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386858 is a reply to message #386848] Tue, 10 September 2019 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:04:06 PM UTC-7, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything useful with it. :-|
>
> Eh, we've successfully taught life-long Mac users to compile and play MAME. You're at least that smart, right?

Never had a Macintosh computer. [Just the apple (and an Apple II+ & 2 eIIe's, and a Windows 95~98se & aWindows 7 machine{s}).]

I do not compile programs from source code. I have no interest in doing so.. I prefer programs that have installer/uninstaller packages; And, that are complete with everything they need (e.g., for MAME: ROMs, etc.). MAME would be better if it had a proper Windows installer, that would update older MAME installations and the ROMS, etc., that one all already has.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386859 is a reply to message #386858] Tue, 10 September 2019 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 12:15:22 UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:04:06 PM UTC-7, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything useful with it. :-|
>>
>> Eh, we've successfully taught life-long Mac users to compile and play MAME. You're at least that smart, right?
>
> Never had a Macintosh computer. [Just the apple (and an Apple II+ & 2 eIIe's, and a Windows 95~98se & aWindows 7 machine{s}).]
>
> I do not compile programs from source code. I have no interest in doing so. I prefer programs that have installer/uninstaller packages; And, that are complete with everything they need (e.g., for MAME: ROMs, etc.). MAME would be better if it had a proper Windows installer, that would update older MAME installations and the ROMS, etc., that one all already has.

For what it is worth I am not really a GUI person so I tend to drive MAME from the Linux command line. It can probably be used the same way from Windows. Once I have something useful that works I stick it in a shellscript (or batch file for Windows.) I have some standard one-line scripts for booting MAME with various floppy disk images or HDD partitions, and with various cards configured. I have one for CFFA3000 HDD, one for CP/M with a softcard, etc. etc. It is sometimes a bit of an experiment how to do something the first time, but once I work it out I just record it in my little script so I have it forever :)

I am happy to share a few of these scripts if you like, once I am back at my PC.

Are there any other emulators can can emulate CP/M Z80 Softcard? That is a killer feature of MAME for me. I love that it is configurable, not just a single configuration like GSPort for example.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386865 is a reply to message #386859] Tue, 10 September 2019 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 993
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 9/10/19 12:57 PM, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:
> Are there any other emulators can can emulate CP/M Z80 Softcard? That is a killer feature of MAME for me. I love that it is configurable, not just a single configuration like GSPort for example.

Virtual ][ (Mac) has that kind of slot plugability, and includes a Softcard.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386878 is a reply to message #386859] Tue, 10 September 2019 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:

> For what it is worth I am not really a GUI person so I tend to drive
> MAME from the Linux command line. It can probably be used the same way
> from Windows.

That is indeed the way I use MAME, having come from the MS-DOS world.

> Are there any other emulators can can emulate CP/M Z80 Softcard? That
> is a killer feature of MAME for me. I love that it is configurable, not
> just a single configuration like GSPort for example.

AppleWin supports the Softcard in slot 4 or 5. I think Agat Emulator
supports it as well.

-uso.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386887 is a reply to message #386859] Tue, 10 September 2019 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: awanderin

Bobbi Webber-Manners <bobbi.manners@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 12:15:22 UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>> On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:04:06 PM UTC-7, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything
>>> useful with it. :-|
>>>
>>> Eh, we've successfully taught life-long Mac users to compile and
>>> play MAME. You're at least that smart, right?
>>
>> Never had a Macintosh computer. [Just the apple (and an Apple II+ &
>> 2 eIIe's, and a Windows 95~98se & aWindows 7 machine{s}).]
>>
>> I do not compile programs from source code. I have no interest in
>> doing so. I prefer programs that have installer/uninstaller
>> packages; And, that are complete with everything they need (e.g.,
>> for MAME: ROMs, etc.). MAME would be better if it had a proper
>> Windows installer, that would update older MAME installations and
>> the ROMS, etc., that one all already has.
>
> For what it is worth I am not really a GUI person so I tend to drive
> MAME from the Linux command line. It can probably be used the same
> way from Windows. Once I have something useful that works I stick it
> in a shellscript (or batch file for Windows.) I have some standard
> one-line scripts for booting MAME with various floppy disk images or
> HDD partitions, and with various cards configured. I have one for
> CFFA3000 HDD, one for CP/M with a softcard, etc. etc. It is sometimes
> a bit of an experiment how to do something the first time, but once I
> work it out I just record it in my little script so I have it forever
> :)
>
> I am happy to share a few of these scripts if you like, once I am back at my PC.
>
> Are there any other emulators can can emulate CP/M Z80 Softcard? That
> is a killer feature of MAME for me. I love that it is configurable,
> not just a single configuration like GSPort for example.


Yes, please do share your scripts! Thanks!

--
--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386893 is a reply to message #386887] Tue, 10 September 2019 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 18:21:41 UTC-4, awanderin wrote:
> Bobbi Webber-Manners <bobbi.manners@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 12:15:22 UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
>>> On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:04:06 PM UTC-7, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> > I'll bet MAME will still need an I.T. (person) to build anything
>>>> useful with it. :-|
>>>>
>>>> Eh, we've successfully taught life-long Mac users to compile and
>>>> play MAME. You're at least that smart, right?
>>>
>>> Never had a Macintosh computer. [Just the apple (and an Apple II+ &
>>> 2 eIIe's, and a Windows 95~98se & aWindows 7 machine{s}).]
>>>
>>> I do not compile programs from source code. I have no interest in
>>> doing so. I prefer programs that have installer/uninstaller
>>> packages; And, that are complete with everything they need (e.g.,
>>> for MAME: ROMs, etc.). MAME would be better if it had a proper
>>> Windows installer, that would update older MAME installations and
>>> the ROMS, etc., that one all already has.
>>
>> For what it is worth I am not really a GUI person so I tend to drive
>> MAME from the Linux command line. It can probably be used the same
>> way from Windows. Once I have something useful that works I stick it
>> in a shellscript (or batch file for Windows.) I have some standard
>> one-line scripts for booting MAME with various floppy disk images or
>> HDD partitions, and with various cards configured. I have one for
>> CFFA3000 HDD, one for CP/M with a softcard, etc. etc. It is sometimes
>> a bit of an experiment how to do something the first time, but once I
>> work it out I just record it in my little script so I have it forever
>> :)
>>
>> I am happy to share a few of these scripts if you like, once I am back at my PC.
>>
>> Are there any other emulators can can emulate CP/M Z80 Softcard? That
>> is a killer feature of MAME for me. I love that it is configurable,
>> not just a single configuration like GSPort for example.
>
>
> Yes, please do share your scripts! Thanks!
>
> --
> --
> Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com

These MAME command lines are nothing too exciting, but I hope they are helpful to someone. I use these on Linux, but I expect they will work on Windows too without too much tinkering.

To start ProDOS from 143k floppy in slot 6:

mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -floppydisk1 ProDOS_2_4_2.po

Using an HDD partition with CFFAv2 emulation:
mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -sl7 cffa202 -hard1 hdd.cfd

Booting CP/M with Wordstar in drive B:
mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -sl4 softcard -floppydisk1 CPM2.23B.dsk -floppydisk2 CPM_WordStar.dsk

The other catch, at least until the latest and greatest MAME that just came out (which I haven't gotten around to trying yet) is that HDD images have to be in some weird CHD "compressed hard drive" format. MAME provides a conversion tool called 'chdman' which can convert back and forwards. On Ubuntu I had to install the package 'mame-tools' to get 'chdman', but I imagine it is part of the normal Windows install of MAME.

Here is how to use chdman to create a CHD HDD file from a .PO image:

chdman createhd -i hd.po -o hd.chd -c none

To convert back, just swap the input (-i) and output (-o):

chdman createhd -i hd.chd -o hd.po -c none

And that is pretty much everything I ever need to do with MAME. I am not a very advanced user though -- just need an Apple //e on my laptop that works like the real one on my desk. It is very handy for building HDD images to copy to the real machine and so forth.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386894 is a reply to message #386893] Tue, 10 September 2019 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:

> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -floppydisk1 ProDOS_2_4_2.po

The syntax should be the same, since I usually use this to boot an Apple
///:

mame apple3 -flop1 ..\apple\star051.dsk

-uso.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #386953 is a reply to message #386894] Wed, 11 September 2019 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

These are the Win7 shortcuts I have setup:

0. MAME64 [machine] [media] [software] [options] <--[command structure.]

1. MAME64 -window

2. MAME64 apple2ee -window -flop1 "APPLE DOS 3.3 SYSTEM MASTER.dsk"

3. MAME64 apple2ee -window -nothrottle -flop1 "ProDOS-8 2.4.2.dsk" -flop2 "Prosel Utilities.dsk"

These (2&3) had full pathnames within the quotes, but I removed all but the disks' filenames (here) for simplicity.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #387000 is a reply to message #386893] Fri, 13 September 2019 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 4:22:14 PM UTC-7, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:
> ...
> To start ProDOS from 143k floppy in slot 6:
>
> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -floppydisk1 ProDOS_2_4_2.po
>
> Using an HDD partition with CFFAv2 emulation:
> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -sl7 cffa202 -hard1 hdd.cfd
>
> Booting CP/M with Wordstar in drive B:
> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -sl4 softcard -floppydisk1 CPM2.23B.dsk -floppydisk2 CPM_WordStar.dsk
> ...

How/where did you get info about Apple II specific MAME commands (above, e.g., -sl#, etc.)? I have not seen them in the MAME documentation. Do you have links to additional (Apple II specific) MAME documentation that you can post here?
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #387009 is a reply to message #387000] Fri, 13 September 2019 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners

On Friday, 13 September 2019 01:55:16 UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 4:22:14 PM UTC-7, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:
>> ...
>> To start ProDOS from 143k floppy in slot 6:
>>
>> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -floppydisk1 ProDOS_2_4_2.po
>>
>> Using an HDD partition with CFFAv2 emulation:
>> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -sl7 cffa202 -hard1 hdd.cfd
>>
>> Booting CP/M with Wordstar in drive B:
>> mame -w apple2ee -sl6 diskii -sl4 softcard -floppydisk1 CPM2.23B.dsk -floppydisk2 CPM_WordStar.dsk
>> ...
>
> How/where did you get info about Apple II specific MAME commands (above, e.g., -sl#, etc.)? I have not seen them in the MAME documentation. Do you have links to additional (Apple II specific) MAME documentation that you can post here?

That is a good question James :)

I managed to track them down somewhere on the web, not in official docs. It was a few years ago now so I don't recall where. When something is hard-won knowledge like this, I try to memorize it in a script, otherwise I would simply forget.

MAME has some magic commands that can show you what ROMs and add-on cards are available. I could dig those out somewhere.

I think part of the challenge is that MAME is so general purpose, and more people are using it to emulate vintage arcade machines or consoles than Apple II. Machine-specific info is hard to track down.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #387012 is a reply to message #387009] Fri, 13 September 2019 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: messdrivers

There's a quick primer on slot devices in this Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MAME/comments/d2ewdv/slot_devices/e zuntjt/


Long-term I'm writing Apple II-specific documentation on our wiki here:

https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/Driver:Apple_II

It's very brief right now, I will be expanding it.
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #387020 is a reply to message #387012] Fri, 13 September 2019 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners

On Friday, 13 September 2019 11:03:10 UTC-4, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
> There's a quick primer on slot devices in this Reddit post:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/MAME/comments/d2ewdv/slot_devices/e zuntjt/
>
>
> Long-term I'm writing Apple II-specific documentation on our wiki here:
>
> https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/Driver:Apple_II
>
> It's very brief right now, I will be expanding it.

That documentation is very handy (and will be even more handy once you expand it further!) Thanks for this!!
Re: MAME 0.213 Apple II highlights [message #387021 is a reply to message #387020] Fri, 13 September 2019 15:37 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

I found this with Google search:

"Using MAME to Emulate the Apple II+ - GlassTTY"
< https://glasstty.com/wiki/index.php/Using_MAME_to_Emulate_th e_Apple_II%2B>.

It gave me some clues as to how to get the information.

These are the (MsDOS) commands I used to list MAME's Apple II machine specs:

"<YourPathnameTo>\mame64.exe" -listslots apple2 > "MAME--Apple2,Slots.txt"

"<YourPathnameTo>\mame64.exe" -listdevices apple2 > "MAME--Apple2.Devices.txt"

"<YourPathnameTo>\mame64.exe" -listslots apple2ee > "MAME--Apple2ee,Slots.txt"

"<YourPathnameTo>\mame64.exe" -listdevices apple2ee > "MAME--Apple2ee.Devices.txt"

[",Slots" & ".Devices" are windows directory sorting tricks (that I use to force the sort order of the texts created).]

According to the article, the "-listslots" & "-listdevices" commands will give you the information needed (e.g., that I asked about how/where to find) about any specific machine [e.g., <ROMname>.zip; for example, ROMnames: "apple2," "apple2p," "apple2ee," etc.].
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