| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386531] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 14:00  |
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Originally posted by: amanda.braun77
On Sunday, September 19, 2010 at 1:30:22 PM UTC+2, limtc wrote:
> It seems that Apple has relax the rule enough that the C64 emulator
> with BASIC is now allowed for App Store! An Amiga emulator is coming
> soon too from the same developers.
>
> Anyone now willing to port Apple II/IIGS emulators to iOS (especially
> now iPad or iPhone 4 have higher resolution than Apple IIGS)? I am
> willing to pay for it... and more if it comes with good Apple II
> software...
I'm new at this, can someone tell me is this emulator for apple II https://www.retrostic.com/emulators/apple-2/applewin is ok for playing the old roms?
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| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386612 is a reply to message #386604] |
Sun, 01 September 2019 12:38  |
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Originally posted by: James Davis
On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 11:42:36 PM UTC-7, Ewen wrote:
>> AppleWin is the best Apple II emulator available!
>
> If you only use Apple products, then Sweet16 is the best Apple II and
> IIgs emulator available!
Okay.
I should have said:
AppleWin is the best Apple II emulator available!--For me, running on Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit).
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| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386622 is a reply to message #386612] |
Sun, 01 September 2019 20:03 |
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Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners
On Sunday, 1 September 2019 12:38:29 UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, August 31, 2019 at 11:42:36 PM UTC-7, Ewen wrote:
>>> AppleWin is the best Apple II emulator available!
>>
>> If you only use Apple products, then Sweet16 is the best Apple II and
>> IIgs emulator available!
>
> Okay.
>
> I should have said:
>
> AppleWin is the best Apple II emulator available!--For me, running on Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit).
I wonder how good AppleWin can be. I run Linux wherever I can, and I have been trying to use Linapple, which claims to be a port of AppleWin to Linux.. I have found quite a lot of bugs and issues in Linapple, to the extent that I can't really use in on my Raspberry Pi 4 (which lives inside my //e). Maybe AppleWin is in better shape. I am not sure how long ago Linapple forked from it ...
On the Linux side, GSPort is very good, but it is a IIgs emulator not //e. When I need a //e emulator, MAME seems to be the best I have found on Linux, but it is not very user friendly. Also MAME uses stupid .CHD compressed hard drive files and writes to a 'diff' file rather than updating the image.
I would love to have a good //e emulator for Linux, of the same quality as GSPort. However I don't think I have the time and energy for such a project. The main thing lacking from GSPort on Linux is full-screen mode. I think that works on Windows though (or maybe on Mac OS too.) Maybe one of these days I will try to see what it would take to implement full-screen mode on Linux.
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| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386660 is a reply to message #386622] |
Tue, 03 September 2019 13:05 |
Michael AppleWin Debu
Messages: 1262
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> I wonder how good AppleWin can be.
It is good, but it can always be better! Though the same could be said for any [Apple] emulator. It really depends on what you are doing and if/how well the emulator supports it. Broadly ALL emulators can be categorized in 3 areas:
* Hardware support
* Software support
* UI QoL / UX (User Interface Quality of Life / User Experience)
That is, my short, incomplete list of judging emulators would include:
* How easy to use is it?
* How easy is it to compile out-of-the-box?
* How many features does it support out-of-the-box?
* How accurate as it? NTSC, quarter track disk support, cycle accurate timing, invalid opcodes, etc.
* How much can you customize it?
* How good is the debugger?
* How many peripherals does it emulate?
* How fast is it?
Every emulator has strengths and weaknesses. There are certain things in AppleWin that blow all the emulators out of the water and certain things that AppleWin sucks at. Every year the bar gets slowly raised. i.e. Emulators that don't support the half-pixel shift are archaic. The 2010's was the decade of accurate NTSC rendering in Apple 2 emulators. The 2020's will be the decade of bit-accurate disk nibble support.
/rant on
Most Open Source programs *suck* because you can't *easily* compile the dam thing. Many developers don't want to waste their time spending hours figuring out the dependency hell and jumping through hoops to get it to build.
/rant off
> I run Linux wherever I can, and I have been trying to use Linapple, which claims to be a port of AppleWin to Linux.
If LinApple does what *you* need -- great!
However, LinApple is an *unofficial* fork of AppleWin ~2007 (IIRC) sans certain features -- such as the debugger has been *completely* stripped -- which may or may not be important to you; if you *need* the debugger you are SOL. There have been many features and bugfixes added to the official AppleWin emulator in the last 10 years!
Someday we'll get around to it (*) -- a proper SDL port/rewrite so we can run natively on Linux and MacOS -- until then the best way is to use Wine or a VM to run the official AppleWin version -- if you need proper NTSC rendering, .woz support, etc.
Michael, AppleWin Developer
(*) /cue Round Tuit -- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/round_tuit
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| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386682 is a reply to message #386622] |
Wed, 04 September 2019 14:09 |
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Originally posted by: messdrivers
On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 8:03:09 PM UTC-4, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:
> Also MAME uses stupid .CHD compressed hard drive files and writes to a 'diff' file rather than updating the image.
If you create the CHD as uncompressed (-c none), MAME will write back to it directly.
And the newly released 0.213 supports raw and .2MG hard disk images, plus it writes directly back to both.
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| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386697 is a reply to message #386660] |
Thu, 05 September 2019 04:35 |
Antoine Vignau
Messages: 1860
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, September 3, 2019 at 7:05:02 PM UTC+2, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
>> I wonder how good AppleWin can be.
>
> It is good, but it can always be better! Though the same could be said for any [Apple] emulator. It really depends on what you are doing and if/how well the emulator supports it. Broadly ALL emulators can be categorized in 3 areas:
>
> * Hardware support
> * Software support
> * UI QoL / UX (User Interface Quality of Life / User Experience)
>
> That is, my short, incomplete list of judging emulators would include:
>
> * How easy to use is it?
> * How easy is it to compile out-of-the-box?
> * How many features does it support out-of-the-box?
> * How accurate as it? NTSC, quarter track disk support, cycle accurate timing, invalid opcodes, etc.
> * How much can you customize it?
> * How good is the debugger?
> * How many peripherals does it emulate?
> * How fast is it?
>
> Every emulator has strengths and weaknesses. There are certain things in AppleWin that blow all the emulators out of the water and certain things that AppleWin sucks at. Every year the bar gets slowly raised. i.e. Emulators that don't support the half-pixel shift are archaic. The 2010's was the decade of accurate NTSC rendering in Apple 2 emulators. The 2020's will be the decade of bit-accurate disk nibble support.
>
> /rant on
>
> Most Open Source programs *suck* because you can't *easily* compile the dam thing. Many developers don't want to waste their time spending hours figuring out the dependency hell and jumping through hoops to get it to build..
>
> /rant off
>
>
>> I run Linux wherever I can, and I have been trying to use Linapple, which claims to be a port of AppleWin to Linux.
>
> If LinApple does what *you* need -- great!
>
> However, LinApple is an *unofficial* fork of AppleWin ~2007 (IIRC) sans certain features -- such as the debugger has been *completely* stripped -- which may or may not be important to you; if you *need* the debugger you are SOL. There have been many features and bugfixes added to the official AppleWin emulator in the last 10 years!
>
> Someday we'll get around to it (*) -- a proper SDL port/rewrite so we can run natively on Linux and MacOS -- until then the best way is to use Wine or a VM to run the official AppleWin version -- if you need proper NTSC rendering, .woz support, etc.
>
> Michael, AppleWin Developer
>
>
> (*) /cue Round Tuit -- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/round_tuit
Michael,
Thank you. That is so true! Your message summarizes what I think about emulators.
For instance, in IIgs emulation, Sweet16 is great in UI and host integration but is less accurate in emulating the original machine than keGS and its children (no 3200 support, no border support, P16 pgms keep on crashing) but it is so easy to exchange data with the host that developing onto it is fine.
I remember I had to patch The Flaming Bird Disassembler to make its 80-col display run fin on Sweet16. The program was running flawlessly on a real machine.
I would say that a test phase on a real machine is mandatory as emulators cannot be trusted at 100% (yet).
Also, thanks to people like you who make emulators more accurate each day.
Antoine.nodebugger.fr
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| Re: Apple II emulator for iOS? [message #386813 is a reply to message #386682] |
Sun, 08 September 2019 19:35 |
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Originally posted by: Bobbi Webber-Manners
On Wednesday, 4 September 2019 14:09:30 UTC-4, messd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 8:03:09 PM UTC-4, Bobbi Webber-Manners wrote:
>> Also MAME uses stupid .CHD compressed hard drive files and writes to a 'diff' file rather than updating the image.
>
> If you create the CHD as uncompressed (-c none), MAME will write back to it directly.
>
> And the newly released 0.213 supports raw and .2MG hard disk images, plus it writes directly back to both.
I didn't know about "-c none" ... that is pretty handy. Also looking forward to updating to 0.213.
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| Apple II emulator relative merits [Re: Apple II emulator for iOS?] [message #386814 is a reply to message #386660] |
Sun, 08 September 2019 19:39 |
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Originally posted by: Brian Patrie
On 03/09/2019 12.05, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> Every emulator has strengths and weaknesses.
That's why i (and i assume meny others) used multiple emulators.
My daily driver is GSplus, partly because i can do IIgs stuff in it, but
it also runs well under Linux.
When i need to paste a path to a disk image (especially a non-140k
image), i use KEGS, because it has a convenient GUI dialogue for that.
(The F4 dialogue can't accept pasting).
When i need to print to a file (e.g. list an AppleSoft programme), or i
want scanlines, i use AppleWin (under Wine), because printing to a file
is easy. I also mostly like its debugger. (I would probably use it
more regularly, if Wine ran it better.)
But i ramble. :)
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| Re: Apple II emulator relative merits [Re: Apple II emulator for iOS?] [message #386836 is a reply to message #386814] |
Mon, 09 September 2019 17:50 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 8 Sep 2019, Brian Patrie wrote:
> On 03/09/2019 12.05, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
>> Every emulator has strengths and weaknesses.
>
> That's why i (and i assume meny others) used multiple emulators.
>
> My daily driver is GSplus, partly because i can do IIgs stuff in it, but it
> also runs well under Linux.
>
> When i need to paste a path to a disk image (especially a non-140k image), i
> use KEGS, because it has a convenient GUI dialogue for that. (The F4 dialogue
> can't accept pasting).
>
> When i need to print to a file (e.g. list an AppleSoft programme), or i want
> scanlines, i use AppleWin (under Wine), because printing to a file is easy.
> I also mostly like its debugger. (I would probably use it more regularly, if
> Wine ran it better.)
>
> But i ramble. :)
>
I'll admit I haven't eaten my own dogfood very much in years. For a short
while I had the best freeware Apple ][ emulator, but AppleWin very quickly
surpassed it. xD
I did consider trying to rewrite AppleWin from scratch, the way my first
emulator originated as a rewrite of ApplePC. (ApplePC had some bugs;
qkumba's patch fixes at least some of them. A rewrite of AppleWin would
aim at portability rather than bugfixes.)
I mainly use 3 emulators: AppleWin, MAME and ApplePC, in that order.
-uso.
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| Re: Apple II emulator relative merits [Re: Apple II emulator for iOS?] [message #386879 is a reply to message #386866] |
Tue, 10 September 2019 15:55 |
Steve Nickolas
Messages: 2036
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2019, Michael AppleWin Debugger Dev wrote:
> Hey Steve
>
> I used to use ApplePC before switching to AppleWin. (Even wrote a
> keyboard patch for ApplePC.)
>
> What feature(s) of ApplePC do you use that aren't being met by AppleWin
> if you don't mind me asking.
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
Mostly obscure stuff - I hacked my configuration to use EDM instead of
the regular ROM, I've had somewhat better luck printing from it than from
AppleWin (might be pilot error here), and sometimes I just prefer the user
interface. Mainly, though, it has to do with swapping larger disk images
around like floppies - it's certainly easier to do it in ApplePC.
Also one of my computers is an original Pentium and runs MS-DOS 5 and
Windows for Workgroups 3.11, so... ;p
-uso.
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