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Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386455] Tue, 27 August 2019 17:58 Go to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it, but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress one at a time.
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386464 is a reply to message #386455] Tue, 27 August 2019 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Nickolas is currently offline  Steve Nickolas
Messages: 1883
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Bobbi wrote:

> I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are
> labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just
> .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the
> sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it,
> but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress
> one at a time.

I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order, whoever made it was perverse.

-uso.
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386465 is a reply to message #386464] Tue, 27 August 2019 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 19:58:41 UTC-4, Steve Nickolas wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Bobbi wrote:
>
>> I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are
>> labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just
>> .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the
>> sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it,
>> but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress
>> one at a time.
>
> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order, whoever made it was perverse.
>
> -uso.

There are lots of 143k .po files out there though.

Turns out that Ciderpress Bulk Converter is a good way to deal with this. Just convert them all into the desired order (.PO or DOS order) without worrying about what format they started out in.
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386478 is a reply to message #386465] Wed, 28 August 2019 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Greg Wildman

On Tue, 2019-08-27 at 17:47 -0700, Bobbi wrote:
>
> There are lots of 143k .po files out there though.
>
> Turns out that Ciderpress Bulk Converter is a good way to deal with
> this. Just convert them all into the desired order (.PO or DOS
> order) without worrying about what format they started out in.

I have not yet used the linux samples that come with Ciderpess. There
is one called 'iconv' for converting disk images. YMMV.

--
Greg
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386486 is a reply to message #386465] Wed, 28 August 2019 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 890
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 8/27/19 8:47 PM, Bobbi wrote:
> On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 19:58:41 UTC-4, Steve Nickolas wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Bobbi wrote:
>>
>>> I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are
>>> labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just
>>> .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the
>>> sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it,
>>> but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress
>>> one at a time.
>>
>> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order, whoever made it was perverse.
>>
>> -uso.
>
> There are lots of 143k .po files out there though.
>
> Turns out that Ciderpress Bulk Converter is a good way to deal with this. Just convert them all into the desired order (.PO or DOS order) without worrying about what format they started out in.

If you want to inspect rather than modify, AppleCommander (Java-based)
on the command line can do it with the -i option; see the "Archive
Order" output:

ac.sh -i ADTPROSOS-2.0.3.DSK
File Name: ADTPROSOS-2.0.3.DSK
Disk Name: /ADTPROSOS.2.0.3/
Physical Size (bytes): 143360
Free Space (bytes): 75264
Used Space (bytes): 68096
Physical Size (KB): 140
Free Space (KB): 73
Used Space (KB): 66
Archive Order: DOS
Disk Format: ProDOS
Total Blocks: 280
Free Blocks: 147
Used Blocks: 133
Volume Access: Destroy Read Rename Write
Block Number of Bitmap: 6
Creation Date: 02/15/0110
File Entries Per Block: 13
File Entry Length (bytes): 39
Active Files in Root Directory: 4
Minimum ProDOS Version Required: 0
Volume Created By ProDOS Version: 8
Volume Name: ADTPROSOS.2.0.3
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386487 is a reply to message #386464] Wed, 28 August 2019 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 3379
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <alpine.BSF.2.02.1908271958020.23521@frieza.hoshinet.org>,
Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Bobbi wrote:
>
>> I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are
>> labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just
>> .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the
>> sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it,
>> but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress
>> one at a time.
>
> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order, whoever made it was perverse.
>
> -uso.

What if (like most of mine) it contains a ProDOS filesystem, though?
Scrambling the block order makes no sense.

Back to the original question, I'd think you could look at block 0 to
determine if you're looking at a ProDOS disk or some other type.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386513 is a reply to message #386487] Wed, 28 August 2019 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bobbi

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 10:45:47 UTC-4, Scott Alfter wrote:
> In article <alpine.BSF.2.02.1908271958020.23521@frieza.hoshinet.org>,
> Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Bobbi wrote:
>>
>>> I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are
>>> labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just
>>> .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the
>>> sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it,
>>> but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress
>>> one at a time.
>>
>> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order, whoever made it was perverse.
>>
>> -uso.
>
> What if (like most of mine) it contains a ProDOS filesystem, though?
> Scrambling the block order makes no sense.
>
> Back to the original question, I'd think you could look at block 0 to
> determine if you're looking at a ProDOS disk or some other type.
>
> _/_
> / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
> (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
> \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

The AppleCommander -i option was pretty much what I was looking for.

Just trying to curate my little collection of disk images :)
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386514 is a reply to message #386487] Wed, 28 August 2019 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 890
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 8/28/19 10:45 AM, Scott Alfter wrote:
> In article <alpine.BSF.2.02.1908271958020.23521@frieza.hoshinet.org>,
> Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Bobbi wrote:
>>
>>> I have a bunch of Apple disk images on my Linux system. Some are
>>> labelled as .DO (DOS Order) or .PO (ProDOS Order) but most are just
>>> .DSK. Is there a convenient tool or trick to quickly determine the
>>> sector order of some random disk image? I think Ciderpress can do it,
>>> but it is not too convenient to have to load each image into Ciderpress
>>> one at a time.
>>
>> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order, whoever made it was perverse.
>>
>> -uso.
>
> What if (like most of mine) it contains a ProDOS filesystem, though?
> Scrambling the block order makes no sense.
>
> Back to the original question, I'd think you could look at block 0 to
> determine if you're looking at a ProDOS disk or some other type.

The operating system laid down on the disk is not related to the order
the sectors were ripped off the floppy. You can have a ProDOS
filesystem laid down on a DOS-order disk, and vice-versa. Or ProDOS FS
on a PO disk, and a DOS FS on a DO disk. The trick that CiderPress and
AppleCommander use is to determine both at the same time: search for
various operating systems in known locations first as one ordering than
the other. Once a match is found, we know both pieces of information -
and they are independent of one another.
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386517 is a reply to message #386513] Thu, 29 August 2019 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Greg Wildman

On Wed, 2019-08-28 at 09:49 -0700, Bobbi wrote:
>
> The AppleCommander -i option was pretty much what I was looking for.
>
> Just trying to curate my little collection of disk images :)

Another tool you might find useful is diskm8.

https://github.com/paleotronic/diskm8

I use it to scan all my disks, search for files, find duplicates,
extract files, etc...

--
Greg
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386530 is a reply to message #386517] Thu, 29 August 2019 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: James Davis

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 11:01:05 PM UTC-7, Greg Wildman wrote:
> On Wed, 2019-08-28 at 09:49 -0700, Bobbi wrote:
>>
>> The AppleCommander -i option was pretty much what I was looking for.
>>
>> Just trying to curate my little collection of disk images :)
>
> Another tool you might find useful is diskm8.
>
> https://github.com/paleotronic/diskm8
>
> I use it to scan all my disks, search for files, find duplicates,
> extract files, etc...
>
> --
> Greg

Thanks Greg.

I, for one, will check it out.

I used to use the ciderpress mdc utility to catalog disk images right after I downloaded them, but I have not been doing it much lately. This sounds like a good program for doing everything as a batch process.

James Davis
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386963 is a reply to message #386487] Thu, 12 September 2019 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Brian Patrie

Scott Alfter wrote:
> Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order,
>> whoever made it was perverse.
>
> What if (like most of mine) it contains a ProDOS filesystem, though?
> Scrambling the block order makes no sense.

Then its filename should end with .po, rather than .dsk.

(Mind you, i do wish that something other than .do, and .po had been
adopted, as those extensions are used for other things. But, oh well.
I suppose that's partly why .2mg was invented.)
Re: Tool to determine sector order of disk image [message #386964 is a reply to message #386963] Thu, 12 September 2019 11:21 Go to previous message
David Schmidt is currently offline  David Schmidt
Messages: 890
Registered: October 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 9/12/19 11:08 AM, Brian Patrie wrote:
> Scott Alfter wrote:
>> Steve Nickolas  <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>>> I think anytime a 140K .DSK isn't DOS Order,
>>> whoever made it was perverse.
>>
>> What if (like most of mine) it contains a ProDOS filesystem, though?
>> Scrambling the block order makes no sense.
>
> Then its filename should end with .po, rather than .dsk.
>
> (Mind you, i do wish that something other than .do, and .po had been
> adopted, as those extensions are used for other things.  But, oh well. I
> suppose that's partly why .2mg was invented.)

Obxkcd:
https://xkcd.com/927/
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